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Stillhere
February 13th, 2008, 04:33 PM
Has the Rocket told the truth? Or, is he now following in the footsteps of Marion Jones? If his testimony if found untruthful should he be prosecuted in a court of law? Will this help clean up sports and drug cheats?

geochuck
February 13th, 2008, 05:08 PM
I prefer Rocket over McNamee. It's like that swim coach feeding steroids to the kids in his supplied water bottles. The kids and their parents did not know the kids were getting steroids.

McNamee has made a deal with the prosecutor. He was the supplier and a drug dealer. He probably told everyone Roger took these illegal items to sell more drugs.

If Roger was injected with these items how would he possibly tell what was injected in his butt. He could have seen the vitamin B but could have been injected with HGH unbeknown to Roger behind his back.


Has the Rocket told the truth? Or, is he now following in the footsteps of Marion Jones? If his testimony if found untruthful should he be prosecuted in a court of law? Will this help clean up sports and drug cheats?

thewookiee
February 13th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Has the Rocket told the truth? Or, is he now following in the footsteps of Marion Jones? If his testimony if found untruthful should he be prosecuted in a court of law? Will this help clean up sports and drug cheats?

Don't know or care. I wish our congress would focus their time on more important issues(war...recession...gas prices to name a few). But, this being an election year, they all want their names and faces on tv as much as possible.

mazzy
February 13th, 2008, 05:39 PM
Clemens is re-born how pitcher in later 30s, just like the bat of Bonds get stronger in his late 30s, throwing faster & harder like never before.
the players used to start to decline slowing in mid 30s, these guys surge well above your recent past performances in later 30s.
I think that everybody that is at least 40-45 years old know that you can't push as hard as training as when you're a 20-25 years old, the injuries along the way, so you know that something don't look right.
maybe Clemens is innocent, maybe not, One thing look clear, the doping is in wide use in sport at this time, in every sport, even more where big money are on the stakes.

Stillhere
February 13th, 2008, 05:44 PM
John:
All the items you mention are in need of Congressional attention. No argument here. I do however think these proceedings will help bring to light the pit falls of illegal performance enhancing drugs and the damage associated with their use. I also think it will give the cheaters a second thought on using this junk. Anything that helps to clean up illegal drug use in sports is good by me.

thewookiee
February 13th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Rocky,

Don't disagree for the most part. I just dont think it should be done with congressional hearings. Give the sports governing bodies the opporunity to clean-up their act.
Some will say MLB has had time but anyone knows that 2 years, isn't enough time. Ok, yes, they should have been more proactive about the issues back when rumors started flying. They weren't, so let's move on.
Give em enough time to change. If they don't, then revoke their anti-trust stuff or whatever it is.
If clemmons or the others did use HGH, at the time it was legal. So, move on now to the present and future.
Say MLB doesnt really change, then do something but give them reasonable time, which is more than 2 years.

Stillhere
February 13th, 2008, 06:19 PM
John:
While I agree in part with Congress having much more pressing issues to deal with--again-- any help is better then no help. Having Congress step in is akin to hunting with 155 MM Artillery, but it does help.
MLB is a billion dollar industry and if allowed to run amuck with illegal drug use it brings harm to an age old America past time. The wide reaching ramifications of this issue transcends MLB, the NFL, swimming or any other sport. If we do not fix this now--and fix it the right way, sports as we know it will continue to suffer for years to come. Regardless if we like it or not, our kids look up to these guys---they look up to Champions and Gold Medal winners. It they come to believe they have to use this junk to be competitive then we as adults and parents have failed them. And, up to now we have failed them. Recent reports indicate that many high school athletes either use or have used illegal performance enhancing drugs to be competitive. The pressure to win at any cost should not be driven down to the kids level and the only way to stop that is to stop the use of these drugs.

LindsayNB
February 13th, 2008, 06:48 PM
The pressure to win at any cost should not be driven down to the kids level and the only way to stop that is to stop the use of these drugs.

I'm not sure the cause and effect is right there. Perhaps if we removed the pressure to win at any cost the drug use would go away?

thewookiee
February 13th, 2008, 09:00 PM
I'm not sure the cause and effect is right there. Perhaps if we removed the pressure to win at any cost the drug use would go away?


Linday, you maybe correct here. The question is how during this day and age?

Esp. with media driven coverage of sports. I think I read at one point that there is an 8 and under golf championship now. That seems a bit extreme to me.

Rocky-High School athletes are being exposed to hgh/illegal preformance enhancing drugs. But shouldn't a lot of pressure not to use them be placed on their coaches and parents? It wouldnt surprise me if the pressure came from these same people, but shouldnt they be held accountable as well? Not just the sports big leagues?

Just wondering.

Allen Stark
February 14th, 2008, 01:51 PM
While I agree Congress has better things to do,the fact is that MLB wouldn't have done anything if Congress hadn't started looking at this.Do I think Clemens cheated,YES.Here is the issue though,MLB had a rule but no enforcement(and no commissioner IMHO.)If there were no cops at all ,who'd drive the speed limit?Performance enhancing drugs are a threat to the integrity of all sports.The testers will probably always be behind the cheaters,but I have to hope at least making a valid effort will deter most of the cheaters.(MLB is not making a valid effort yet and if it takes hearings to get them to,GOOD.Selig said"we have the best program of any sport"What a joke,they warn people when the tests will be,they don't test blood,and the penalties are not strict enough.)
By the way,I had a lot of respect for Clemens until he threw the broken bat at Piazza.

hofffam
February 14th, 2008, 04:39 PM
You need to remember MLB didn't even ban steroids until recently. Then they banned them but had no testing. Then they added testing but with no public results or consequences. Finally they have something close to a policy and program. Still a ways to go.

I think Clemens is dirty. He hasn't failed any tests but his trainer, who has little to gain from lying, outed him. Teammates, including Andy Pettite and Chuck Knoblauch, admitted to their own use.

Clemens is desperately trying to save his name, but is really making it worse and worse by continuing to lie.

geochuck
February 14th, 2008, 04:51 PM
Hofffam

Do you really think the trainer has nothing to gain??? I think he will probably get no jail time for lieing.

jim clemmons
February 14th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Rocky,

Don't disagree for the most part. I just dont think it should be done with congressional hearings. Give the sports governing bodies the opporunity to clean-up their act.
Some will say MLB has had time but anyone knows that 2 years, isn't enough time. Ok, yes, they should have been more proactive about the issues back when rumors started flying. They weren't, so let's move on.
Give em enough time to change. If they don't, then revoke their anti-trust stuff or whatever it is.
If clemmons or the others did use HGH, at the time it was legal. So, move on now to the present and future.
Say MLB doesnt really change, then do something but give them reasonable time, which is more than 2 years.

Wookiee-mon,

Please - let's get Roger's last name correct so the Smiths don't come after me at Nat's. His is C L E M E N S. Thanks a bunch...don't want to create confusion.

The Fortress
February 14th, 2008, 04:53 PM
You need to remember MLB didn't even ban steroids until recently. Then they banned them but had no testing. Then they added testing but with no public results or consequences. Finally they have something close to a policy and program. Still a ways to go.

I think Clemens is dirty. He hasn't failed any tests but his trainer, who has little to gain from lying, outed him. Teammates, including Andy Pettite and Chuck Knoblauch, admitted to their own use.

Clemens is desperately trying to save his name, but is really making it worse and worse by continuing to lie.

I agree. He's using the Raphael Palmeiro approach. Didn't work too well for Palmeiro ... Clemens should have just fessed up like his buddy Pettite.

Smith can't spell his name either, Jim.

thewookiee
February 14th, 2008, 05:29 PM
Wookiee-mon,

Please - let's get Roger's last name correct so the Smiths don't come after me at Nat's. His is C L E M E N S. Thanks a bunch...don't want to create confusion.

Jim...sorry...don't want either of the smith's to demand a congressional hearing on the preformances of real athletes at national's. The smith's will probably claim that someone injected them with B-12 and vit. C.

jim clemmons
February 14th, 2008, 06:00 PM
Jim...sorry...don't want either of the smith's to demand a congressional hearing on the preformances of real athletes at national's. The smith's will probably claim that someone injected them with B-12 and vit. C.

It be cool.

Got Boost
February 15th, 2008, 01:01 AM
After all is said and done, Baseball has to admit to rampant steroid use and aggressivly attack it in the future. What has passed is unfortunate, but passed. Attempting to drag out the truth is going to be long and expensive for the taxpayer if the congress continues to be involved. Is it really a problem the Congress of the U.S. needs to be involved in. Shouldn't it be up to MLB to clean its self up? Other professional sports seemed to be monitoring it without congressional intervention? Just some thoughts. Go Cubs
Got Boost

phdude
February 15th, 2008, 05:11 AM
isn't it obvious Rocket is lying? Here we have a pitcher making a late comeback, doing things only barry bonds was able to do. now we know that his trainer was distributing and injecting steroids, his best friend was using them, his wife used HGH, and both his trainer and best friend say he used them too. somehow we are to believe that this is all an elaborate hoax concocted to ruin poor roger's reputation, and despite all the close people in his life using steroids and insisting roger did, his miraculous comeback was clean. def. not buying that, and laughing out loud at the thought of anyone believing him.

as far as congress having "better things to do", the congress is obviously a large body and while there are half a dozen reps there, we have another 550 working on other things, so it's not like all of congress stops to hear what roger is saying about steroids. personally i WISH that it would because honestly with the sort of "accomplishments" this congress has made when it has had time on its hands (higher pay for themselves, a "stimulus package" that is nothing more than an increase in national debt,and redistribution of wealth, with no plans to cut spending in order to pay for it despite bernanke's insistance on that point, etc....) in my opinion the less time they are there creating bills to "help" us, the better.

aquageek
February 15th, 2008, 10:02 AM
Don't disagree for the most part. I just dont think it should be done with congressional hearings.

It isn't hearingS, it was a single hearing, the cmte chair made that perfectly clear in his opening statement. Waxman - "So I decided to proceed with this hearing, which I expect will be the last hearing this Committee will have on baseball's past or the Mitchell report."

And, more congressmen and Senators have been running about the country for months on end on the "important business" of getting themselves elected than are on that cmte anyway.

Given the popularity of sports, devoting a single half day to discussing illegal drugs coupled with arguably the greatest pitcher of the last 30 years, is a suberb opportunity to quickly and concisely get the issue out there and speak to it's importance.

I fail to see how raising awareness of drugs in sports for 4-5 hours takes away from solving the Iraq war or the state of the economy, which the gov't has even less business meddling in, if you believe in capitalism anyway.

phdude - word to you, right on

Stillhere
February 15th, 2008, 12:03 PM
Hey Geek---where is my "right on?":mooning::rofl:

Steve Cox
February 15th, 2008, 12:06 PM
Roger was told he didn't need to testify, but the hearing went on at his insistance. I believe the trainer - the other players he talked about both admitted usage. His good friend Andy Pettitte said under oath that Roger told him he had used HGH. And what about tampering with witnesses? Roger was doing Congress "a favor" by meeting with his nanny first to go over her testomony? Plus the physical evidence - needles, etc. And we're to believe that he didn't know his trainer was injecting his wife with HGH? And even though he didn't know anything about HGH he wasn't concerned enough to call a doctor when his wife was complaining of circulation problems resulting from the injection? I find it all pretty hard to believe.

At first I thought that Roger's reputation was so important to him that he would risk lying to Congress to protect it. But I just read an article on Sports Illustrated's website suggesting that he believes he would be able to get a pardon it prosecuted because of his close relationship with the Bush family.

I think it's a real problem and I'm glad to see it finally being brought out in the open.

jim clemmons
February 15th, 2008, 12:31 PM
But I just read an article on Sports Illustrated's website suggesting that he believes he would be able to get a pardon it prosecuted because of his close relationship with the Bush family.



I heard this same thing on the radio last night while driving home. :shakeshead:

aquageek
February 15th, 2008, 12:37 PM
I bet things are great at Clemen's home right now. He sold his wife down the river so many times. "No, I didn't use HGH, it was my wife." That's a heck of a way to sidestep blame. Good to see he's there for his family, further proof of his buffoonery.

geochuck
February 15th, 2008, 02:47 PM
I don't think his wife minds that he tells the truth.

I bet things are great at Clemen's home right now. He sold his wife down the river so many times. "No, I didn't use HGH, it was my wife." That's a heck of a way to sidestep blame. Good to see he's there for his family, further proof of his buffoonery.

aquageek
February 15th, 2008, 03:01 PM
I don't think his wife minds that he tells the truth.

You are right, who has a wife who wouldn't want the truth of her illegal drug use played out before Congress and the American public.

jim clemmons
February 15th, 2008, 03:02 PM
I bet things are great at Clemen's home right now. He sold his wife down the river so many times. "No, I didn't use HGH, it was my wife."

I watched a portion of the hearing the other day and his wife was sitting in the audience. She didn't appear very bothered about the whole thing.

'Course, if you had half of "x amount" of millions of dollars and it wasn't you but your spouse possibly going to jail, you probably wouldn't be too bothered about the whole thing either I guess.

geochuck
February 15th, 2008, 03:28 PM
HGH is illegal???? I did not know this.

You are right, who has a wife who wouldn't want the truth of her illegal drug use played out before Congress and the American public.

Steve Cox
February 15th, 2008, 04:10 PM
HGH is illegal???? I did not know this.


McNamee ... probably told everyone Roger took these illegal items to sell more drugs.

I'm confused.

geochuck
February 15th, 2008, 04:33 PM
He did sell steroids.

However the trainer claimed he was a Doctor and if he was, he could inject steroids and HGH legaly.

Iwannafly
February 15th, 2008, 05:31 PM
He did sell steroids.

However the trainer claimed he was a Doctor and if he was, he could inject steroids and HGH legaly.

He claimed he had a PhD, not an MD. PhDs cannot prescribe drugs, unless they are licensed MDs as well. I know lots of doctors, but their PhDs are in Engineering or Physics. I'm pretty certain I'm not going to let them inject me with ANYTHING!:)

geochuck
February 15th, 2008, 06:26 PM
He Called himself DR as seen here in the NY Times. (By then, McNamee had begun to parlay his connection to Clemens into business opportunities, selling nutritional supplements, weight belts, and vitamins. In advertisements, he called himself Dr. Brian McNamee, Ph.D. (He’d earned a doctoral degree from a mail-order college to beef up his credentials as a trainer.) He bragged that his workouts were so intense that he paid for liability insurance in case Clemens was injured. Such was his need to take credit for Clemens’s success that he went out of his way to rebut an op-ed in the New York Times that called for baseball to come clean about steroid use among record-breaking players. The story didn’t mention Clemens, but McNamee responded with a letter titled “Don’t Be So Quick to Prejudge All That Power,” which called the article an “insult” to behind-the-scenes guys like him.)


He claimed he had a PhD, not an MD. PhDs cannot prescribe drugs, unless they are licensed MDs as well. I know lots of doctors, but their PhDs are in Engineering or Physics. I'm pretty certain I'm not going to let them inject me with ANYTHING!:)

Allen Stark
February 15th, 2008, 08:26 PM
HGH is illegal without a prescription.Cocaine and methamphetamine are also legal with a prescription.I don't think a PhD from a mail order diploma mill has any business injecting anything.

geochuck
February 15th, 2008, 08:31 PM
Who is wrong the injected or the injector.

The injected thinks the injector is acting legally.

How can you tell what is injected in your butt unless you are double jointed.

ande
February 15th, 2008, 09:21 PM
i think he took steriods but
now if he admits it won't he be subject to perjury


Has the Rocket told the truth? Or, is he now following in the footsteps of Marion Jones? If his testimony if found untruthful should he be prosecuted in a court of law? Will this help clean up sports and drug cheats?

aquageek
February 15th, 2008, 09:23 PM
Who is wrong the injected or the injector.

Typically both.

Iwannafly
February 16th, 2008, 01:07 PM
Who is wrong the injected or the injector.

The injected thinks the injector is acting legally.

How can you tell what is injected in your butt unless you are double jointed.
It could say a lot about Roger if he let someone inject him without knowing exactly what was in the syringe. I know I'm going out on a limb here, but there is no way McNamee injected Clemens with HGH without Roger knowing about it.

geochuck
February 16th, 2008, 01:32 PM
Why is everyone down on a truly great athlete, I just do not believe Liars.

Same thing everyone was down on Phelps with his error in judgement.

Steve Cox
February 16th, 2008, 02:12 PM
Why is everyone down on a truly great athlete
For the sake of argument, let's say he did knowingly use HGH.

Do you think it's fair to the other pitchers that were edged out of the record books because of his drug improved abilities? What about the batters that faced him? Their statistics would have suffered as well. This negatively affects how much they can earn, as well as their legacy.

By using drugs to improve your abilities, you're cheating and stealing from those you are competing against.

If he did it all clean, I agree with you that he's a great athlete. If not, I believe that he should be held acccountable - it's only fair.

geochuck
February 16th, 2008, 02:16 PM
For the sake of argument, let's say he did knowingly use HGH.

Do you think it's fair to the other pitchers that were edged out of the record books because of his drug improved abilities? What about the batters that faced him? Their statistics would have suffered as well. This negatively affects how much they can earn, as well as their legacy.

By using drugs to improve your abilities, you're cheating and stealing from those you are competing against.

If he did it all clean, I agree with you that he's a great athlete. If not, I believe that he should be held acccountable - it's only fair.

He was a great athlete even before he met the jerk trainer.

Steve Cox
February 16th, 2008, 02:17 PM
He was a great athlete even before he met the jerk trainer.
So anything he does from then on is okay?

I think you're missing the point.

geochuck
February 16th, 2008, 03:47 PM
That is the point. You have said let's say he did it knowingly. That has not been proven yet. I will condem him if it is a proven fat.


For the sake of argument, let's say he did knowingly use HGH.

Do you think it's fair to the other pitchers that were edged out of the record books because of his drug improved abilities? What about the batters that faced him? Their statistics would have suffered as well. This negatively affects how much they can earn, as well as their legacy.

By using drugs to improve your abilities, you're cheating and stealing from those you are competing against.

If he did it all clean, I agree with you that he's a great athlete. If not, I believe that he should be held acccountable - it's only fair.

aquageek
February 16th, 2008, 08:14 PM
He was a great athlete even before he met the jerk trainer.

He employed the trainer and the trainer injected his wife with HGH. How does that make the trainer a jerk?

And, how great a pitcher is he really if he has been using HGH and steroids for the last 10 years, give or take?

How has he managed to do what no other of his contemporaries has? Maddux, Glavine, Johnson, Pedro have all seen reduction in performance, yet oddly enough not Clemens. Oh yeah, he just trains harder, with his jerk trainer, of course.

Iwannafly
February 16th, 2008, 08:50 PM
Why is everyone down on a truly great athlete, I just do not believe Liars.

Same thing everyone was down on Phelps with his error in judgement.
A DUI is different than systematic cheating of the system. I don't believe for a minute that Clemens is clean. Perhaps that's because I'm a RedSox fan and I'm still irritated that he went to Toronto!

Paul Smith
February 16th, 2008, 10:23 PM
Jim...sorry...don't want either of the smith's to demand a congressional hearing on the preformances of real athletes at national's. The smith's will probably claim that someone injected them with B-12 and vit. C.

Actually we both have wondered when/if USMS should start cracking down on the swimmers in our ranks using drugs....

And Jim....we will be tracking you down in Austin regardless!

Paul Smith
February 16th, 2008, 10:27 PM
He was a great athlete even before he met the jerk trainer.

Give me a break George...Jerk overpaid athlete with declining abilities hired so called "jerk" trainer and paid him a LOT of money for his "expertise".

He lied, he cheated, he should have retired before ego got in the way.

geochuck
February 16th, 2008, 10:55 PM
Paul you know I stuck with our druggy track star until it was proof positive. I need definite proof Clemens used drugs. Not heresay from a liar.


Give me a break George...Jerk overpaid athlete with declining abilities hired so called "jerk" trainer and paid him a LOT of money for his "expertise".

He lied, he cheated, he should have retired before ego got in the way.

aquageek
February 17th, 2008, 09:13 PM
Paul you know I stuck with our druggy track star until it was proof positive. I need definite proof Clemens used drugs. Not heresay from a liar.

It's not hearsay if he actually witnessed it, or in this case, administered it.

Is he a jerk because he was interviewed as part of a Federal investigation, where he either tells the truth or potentially goes to jail? Or, is he a jerk because he took Clemen's money and still told the truth?

ande
February 18th, 2008, 03:39 PM
does anyone else smell the smoke from his pants on fire?

ande


Has the Rocket told the truth? Or, is he now following in the footsteps of Marion Jones? If his testimony if found untruthful should he be prosecuted in a court of law? Will this help clean up sports and drug cheats?

Blackbeard's Peg
February 19th, 2008, 05:19 PM
someone mentioned that the trainer has nothing to gain... he's trying to protect what is left of his reputation. people in his field generally do not make a lot of money unless they're associated with a professional sports team and/or player. he's trying to cut his losses and get back in the gym making some money (since he's probably got a lot of lawyer bills).

Steve Cox
February 28th, 2008, 05:04 PM
Looks as if things are heating up for the Rocket:

FBI opens inquiry into Clemens' testimony
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/28/clemens.steroids.ap/index.html

It seems that the lawmakers' request was bipartisan, and that they believe the trainer. Maybe we'll get to see if Roger's as good a friend of the president as he thinks.

Karen Duggan
February 28th, 2008, 11:01 PM
Hi,
Just browsing...
Clemens is a liar and he will serve jail time for lying to the Grand Jury, IMHO.
I agree that he tried to prolong his career and achievements. He would have lived forever as one of the greats on his natural talents, now he will be known as a cheater and a liar- nice legacy Rocket.

I can understand that these athletes want to continue to compete at the high level they're used to (don't condone the cheating, but understand that part). But what I don't get is that they are so stupid to PERJURE themselves and risk going to jail. Marion Jones' children are the ones who suffer the most because of her extremely poor judgment. I absolutely think he should serve jail time for lying. Our judicial system is there for a reason, and while it doesn't always do justice, it is clear that it has never tolerated lying under oath...

SwimStud
March 7th, 2008, 01:29 PM
lol at the t-shirt

http://www.badgrafix.com/cgi-bin/store/bgStore.pl/1155987206/badgrafix/4953078

The Fortress
April 17th, 2008, 03:55 PM
A baseball fan told me today that Clemens was granted immunity by Bush. Is that right?! He said not Bonds or others, just Clemens.

I thought he wasn't given immunity. Is this something new or is my friend mis-remembering?

Leonard Jansen
April 17th, 2008, 04:02 PM
A baseball fan told me today that Clemens was granted immunity by Bush. Is that right?! He said not Bonds or others, just Clemens.

I thought he wasn't given immunity. Is this something new or is my friend mis-remembering?

I'm no lawyer, but... can the president grant immunity? I thought he could only grant a pardon - either ex post facto of a conviction or prior to a conviction as Ford did for Nixon.

-LBJ

ViveBene
April 17th, 2008, 04:08 PM
Immunity defense

Most recent thing I found. Immunity defense applies to statements made during course of judicial or legislative proceedings (or similar wording):

http://reporter.blogs.com/thresq/2008/03/posted-by-mat-5.html

Clemens claims McNamee, former trainer, defamed him during testimony. McNamee claims he was wrapped in cloak of protection for statements made during a federal investigation. Quite a rat's nest, but as usual, what interest the courts is who has jurisdiction, whether a Congressional hearing is a "federal investigation," and so forth. Backing right out of the ballpark.

I believe Congressionally granted immunity is completely different. And it seems doubtful that he would get it.

VB

geochuck
April 17th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Do you think he is going to need any kind of immunity? Only guilty people need immunity.

Is there any real proof? Other than testimony from a drug dealer who has a deal.

Iwannafly
April 17th, 2008, 04:21 PM
Do you think he is going to need any kind of immunity? Only guilty people need immunity.

Is there any real proof? Other than testimony from a drug dealer who has a deal.

I'm sure there is a lot of real proof. Just because you haven't seen it yet, doesn't mean it isn't there. Clemens is guilty of cheating, burn him at the stake!

geochuck
April 17th, 2008, 04:32 PM
I'm sure there is a lot of real proof. Just because you haven't seen it yet, doesn't mean it isn't there. Clemens is guilty of cheating, burn him at the stake!
I have not seen any real proof, has anyone found any real proof.

3strokes
April 18th, 2008, 12:29 PM
Do you think he is going to need any kind of immunity? Only guilty people need immunity.



But, George, remember your Perry Mason 101.
Guilty and Not guilty do not mean
"Guilty=Not innocent" and "Not Guilty=innocent"

Stillhere
April 28th, 2008, 11:52 AM
It was reported today (alledged) that Roger Clemens carried on a decade-long affair with country star Mindy McCready, a romance that began when McCready was a 15-year-old aspiring singer performing in a karaoke bar and Clemens was a 28-year-old Red Sox ace and married father of two. If proven true, these revelations would kill his claims of having high character, morals and ethics. It would also make it very hard to believe he was clean---

geochuck
April 28th, 2008, 04:35 PM
“He flatly denies having had any kind of an inappropriate relationship with her,” Hardin said. “He’s considered her a close family friend. … He has never had a sexual relationship with her.”

The Fortress
April 29th, 2008, 12:19 PM
It was reported today (alledged) that Roger Clemens carried on a decade-long affair with country star Mindy McCready, a romance that began when McCready was a 15-year-old aspiring singer performing in a karaoke bar and Clemens was a 28-year-old Red Sox ace and married father of two. If proven true, these revelations would kill his claims of having high character, morals and ethics. It would also make it very hard to believe he was clean---

I heard this on the radio today as well.

Not sure that people fed ex 1000s of dollars on a regular basis to family friends. Looks like fame and adulation went to his head and he thought he could do anything he wanted. He's in a heap o trouble now. Of course, other baseball stars have done the same thing (e.g., Kirby Puckett).

Stillhere
April 29th, 2008, 01:46 PM
Fortress:

"Looks like fame and adulation went to his head and he thought he could do anything he wanted."

If this country western singer alleged nonsense is found true---then you are dead right on that statement. I figured this was his problem all along. I think he did PED exactly like McNamee claimed, but his mega ego could not allow him to own up to being a low down cheating PED user. Gosh, he is the "Rocket", so why does he have to play by the rules?

Trust me, if the Feds can put him in the box on perjuring himself before Congress he will find his "Rocket" back side in a Federal Prison--and faster then a real Rocket can send him there.

aquageek
April 29th, 2008, 02:17 PM
He didn't exactly pick the most stable person to "hang out" with for a decade in that Mindy McCready woman. Anyone who thinks for one single second there was no hanky panky is just flat stupid. McCready herself has already admitted to the relationship.

His wife is a real scapegoat. First, he goes in front of Congress and says it was his wife, not him who is the doper and now he's fooling around with a teenager. Then, he expects her to believe he was flying her around the country for her personality and companionship.

I now am pretty convinced it won't be long before other little tidbits come out about Clemens.

knelson
April 29th, 2008, 03:18 PM
a romance that began when McCready was a 15-year-old aspiring singer performing in a karaoke bar

Something seems strange about a 15 year old performing in a bar.

geochuck
April 29th, 2008, 03:39 PM
My thoughts also Knelson. I do not see it strange for him to send money to someone who needs help. Why does anyone accuse people without proof.

I have sent the odd $1000.00 to some of my childhood friends who have fell on hard times.

I even paid airfare for one to go to the UK. because his mother was ill.

I gave another guy who's car broke down repair money. He was my neighbour 70 years ago. I had not seen him for over 40 years. My brother told me about his plight. He had a massive heart attack and was broke.

aquageek
April 29th, 2008, 04:22 PM
George - you've got to be kidding with that nonsense. McCready is/was an ultra successful music star. This is a case of two superstars doing what two superstars do, goof off and think they are above it all.

As to proof, what more do you need? She admiited the relationship, along with Clemens, via his atty also. There are dozens if not hundreds of witnesses to them being out and about.

What kind of grown man with kids chooses to hang out with a 15 year old, fly her around the country and give her money? I tell you what kind - shady one, with certain other motives. And, don't start with your innocent until proven guilty. This is a case of guilty until proven guiltier.

This isn't some sad sack story of a dude with a broken car living in a mobile home down on his luck, get real.

Paul Smith
April 29th, 2008, 04:24 PM
My thoughts also Knelson. I do not see it strange for him to send money to someone who needs help. Why does anyone accuse people without proof.

I have sent the odd $1000.00 to some of my childhood friends who have fell on hard times.

I even paid airfare for one to go to the UK. because his mother was ill.

I gave another guy who's car broke down repair money. He was my neighbour 70 years ago. I had not seen him for over 40 years. My brother told me about his plight. He had a massive heart attack and was broke.

So the girl says flat out "I cannot dispute anything in the report" and Geo's coming back with the "no proof" stuff again...thats pretty funny Chuck! Do you go to Reverand Wrights church by chance?

geochuck
April 29th, 2008, 04:43 PM
Which report is she referring to, that she has known the guy or she slept with him when she was 15. He said like Bill Clinton - I did not have sexual relations with that woman.

What was she doing in the bar at 15. The bar should be charged.

Reverand Wright, I heard with my own ears what he said. He cannot say he did not say theses things, now do I believe Obama??? That he did not hear Reverend Wright's sermons. I would still need proof he was there.


So the girl says flat out "I cannot dispute anything in the report" and Geo's coming back with the "no proof" stuff again...thats pretty funny Chuck! Do you go to Reverand Wrights church by chance?

aquageek
April 29th, 2008, 05:09 PM
I can say that, unlike George, if my 15 year old daughter were hanging out with a 25 year old man, I wouldn't require the level of proof that George needs. Some things are proof enough in themselves.

Lewinsky and Clinton were both adults, this is a minor child. Maybe things are different in Canada, take the word of the pedophile over children.

geochuck
April 29th, 2008, 05:33 PM
Parental control is what is needed, my fifteen year old daughters were not allowed to go to bars and sing karaoke. We knew where they were and it was not at a bar.

18 and 21 depending on the province the age they can go in to a bar or consume booze. I would still want proof of what supposedly happened. You still want to convict without proof.

You probably use this video as proof. http://ballhype.com/video/video_clever_re_edit_of_roger_clemens_steriods/

Chris Stevenson
April 29th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Parental control is what is needed, my fifteen year old daughters were not allowed to go to bars and sing karaoke. We knew where they were and it was not at a bar.

Please tell me you're not pulling this "blame the victim" carp.

Would you feel differently about it if they met in church? Or would you be asking about the length of her skirt?

aquageek
April 29th, 2008, 06:10 PM
Parental control is what is needed, my fifteen year old daughters were not allowed to go to bars and sing karaoke.

So, you hold the adult parents to a different level than you do an adult baseball player, who is married with children. I guess because he is the Rocket he gets a pass in hitting on teen girls.

Get this into your head - it really doesn't matter where she was, what she was wearing, what she was doing, what she said or anything else she did - she's a minor, he's an adult, end of story. If anything sexual happened he's is solely the one to blame and hold accountable. It not any more complicated than that.

Let's give all child molesters a pass and blame the parents! That's the Canadian way. Let me dig up the website for you to make donations to Michael Jackson's legal defense fund.

George - would you have ever let your 15 year old daughter hang out with a multimillionare sports star alone, fly around the country and spend money on her and your family? Answer that question.

geochuck
April 29th, 2008, 06:12 PM
No not the blame the victim crap.

I just want the proof that he did this. If the truth is presented that it happened I will believe it.

I have been in the childcare field and have seen many people being accussed of sexual abuse and not come out of the accusations even after it being proven they did not do it. Yes it happens but there must be real proof. I have seen two social workers accussed and it was proven to be a false accusation.

Stillhere
April 29th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Clemens may as well make a video like this one---for it sure as heck is the same nonsense in my mind. It not only waddles, it quacks, has a cute tail and a beak---Looks like an Elephant to me?....If we try real hard--- we might--and I mean might--- be able to stretch the truth and call it a DUCK!:banana:



http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?va=clinton+video+i+did+not+have+sex&fr=yfp-t-501&tnr=21&vid=1118588588

Peter Cruise
April 29th, 2008, 06:21 PM
Geek- why don't you leave the Canadian slurs out of the discussion; as you pointed out this has everything to do with celebrity meglomania which cuts across all borders these days.

aquageek
April 29th, 2008, 06:27 PM
George - since they've both already admitted the relationship, how in the world can you justify any part of it? Grown adult men should not be hanging out and indulging 15 year old music stars.

O Canada! O brother!

The Fortress
April 29th, 2008, 06:27 PM
Parental control is what is needed,

Some parents don't exercise adequate control or are crappy parents or whatever. That is why the government enacts laws, such as statutory rape laws, to fill the gap.

George, I think you just love flinging around the "innocent until we get definitive proof" stuff to get people arguing. Plus, your view of "proof" is odd. Numerous eye witnesses and admissions is proof.

knelson
April 29th, 2008, 06:28 PM
I should say that I wasn't suggesting "she was asking for it..." or anything of the sort by singing at a bar as a teenager. I just thought it was a little strange that a 15 year old was at a bar, that's all.

geochuck
April 29th, 2008, 06:32 PM
Fort everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Or did I mix up the wording.

Some parents don't exercise adequate control or are crappy parents or whatever. That is why the government enacts laws, such as statutory rape laws, to fill the gap.

George, I think you just love flinging around the "innocent until we get definitive proof" stuff to get people arguing. Plus, your view of "proof" is odd. Numerous eye witnesses and admissions is proof.

geochuck
April 29th, 2008, 06:34 PM
I don't think I applied that logic either.


I should say that I wasn't suggesting "she was asking for it..." or anything of the sort by singing at a bar as a teenager. I just thought it was a little strange that a 15 year old was at a bar, that's all.

aquageek
April 29th, 2008, 06:57 PM
So, I just heard on ESPN that one source is stating they waited until she was 18 to have sex. I can go back to considering Roger a saint now, along with geochuck.

The Fortress
April 29th, 2008, 08:13 PM
So, I just heard on ESPN that one source is stating they waited until she was 18 to have sex.

That's convenient.

George, my stint in the federal prosecutors' office has apparently influenced me. I'm all for not castigating innocent people. But posters are all allowed to express an opinion about Clemens with or without what you deem to be "proof." I'm sure more facts will be flowing fast anyway.

It's also perfectly valid to believe in the adage that "where there's smoke, there's fire." Not always true, but very often.

As a Red Sox fan, the whole thing disappoints me.

geochuck
April 29th, 2008, 09:06 PM
Nearly all procecutors are percecuters.

Chris Stevenson
April 29th, 2008, 09:29 PM
It is pretty amazing to me how quickly Clemens went from a shoo-in first-ballot HoF'er to a dirty old man.

Big bad Barry doesn't look quite so bad anymore, huh?

The Fortress
April 29th, 2008, 09:58 PM
Nearly all procecutors are percecuters.

George, don't they teach spelling up north there? I enjoyed investigating corrupt judges. And don't worry, I'm not the Grand Inquisitor; I've spent boatloads of time on defense.

I think Barry Bonds is still winning in the reprehensible category, but it's getting closer.

I wonder how many lawyers Clemens has hired? Hope his wife got a good divorce lawyer. Or will she "stand by her man?"

geochuck
April 29th, 2008, 10:14 PM
Persecutors, Persecuting, Prosecutors,

Sorry Fort - I was so anxious to reply I did not look to see what I wrote. :duel::duel::duel:

aquageek
April 30th, 2008, 10:22 AM
I think Barry Bonds is still winning in the reprehensible category, but it's getting closer.

I think it's neck and neck, with Roger starting to pull ahead. This whole McCready thing is really sordid, no matter if sex was involved or not. I think Bonds was a jerk to women but think he kept his jerkiness limited to adult women, whereas Roger seems to prefer the girlies.

The PTI guys yesterday made a great point that he would be markedly better off if he just admitted the truth about the drugs and moved on. Instead he has gone through this series of ludicrous denials, tales about his wife, the BBQ at Cansecos, etc. I find it rather hard to believe that absolutely everything brought up about him is a lie.

geochuck
April 30th, 2008, 11:50 AM
May I just say I have enjoyed pulling everyones leg on this subject.

Fort, Aqua, Chris, Still, etc. etc. etc.

I believe that anyone who is guilty of a crime should roast in hades.

I just want to be sure the guilty are truly guilty.

Stillhere
April 30th, 2008, 12:57 PM
If I were a betting man---I’d bet that Clemens will need clemency before to long---not to mention a good divorce lawyer.

I just couldn't resist that play on words----:banana:

aquageek
May 1st, 2008, 09:40 AM
As we witness the meteoric fall of Clemens, another story surfaces today. He allegedly was also involved with John Daly's former wife, which included sexual and financial favors. At least she's not a teenager.

In all fairness, I think this woman has a dubious past, or one of the ex wive's of Daly does. He's a head case unto himself.

The Fortress
May 1st, 2008, 10:56 AM
And there are more.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/04/30/mindy-mccready-may-not-be-the-only-female-skeleton-in-roger-clem/

I think it's safe to say he'll be forced to drop his defamation suit.

SwimStud
May 1st, 2008, 11:10 AM
Roger the Rocket should have kept it in his pocket...

geochuck
May 1st, 2008, 11:45 AM
Just to let you know the age of consent in Canada has changed today from 14 years of age to 16 years of age. Watch out Bountiful...

3strokes
May 2nd, 2008, 12:00 PM
Just to let you know the age of consent in Canada has changed today from 14 years of age to 16 years of age.

Drat and Darn!

:frustrated:









:p

geochuck
May 2nd, 2008, 01:15 PM
I knew that was going to put lots of strain on you 3strokes.

Bad news surely hurts.

3strokes
May 2nd, 2008, 04:39 PM
I knew that was going to put lots of strain on you 3strokes.

Bad news surely hurts.

I hate to have to disappoint so many young'uns.:bolt:

I hope the RCMP understands smileys.

Stillhere
May 6th, 2008, 11:22 AM
"Clemens apologizes for ‘mistakes in personal life’"

The real Rocket Man is starting to come into view---