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LindsayNB
February 19th, 2008, 02:48 PM
If I have a goal time of 5:59.99 for the 400m free, but don't have any experience racing this distance, what would be a good test set to gauge where I am now, and what approach to pace training would be good for this event?

I was thinking 4x100 at 1:30 pace with X seconds rest as a test set, but I don't know what value of X to use to give a gauge of ability to do it continuous in a meet.

Secondly, for pacing, should I train to hold a steady 1:30 pace or figure that I'll do the first 50 or 100 faster and then hold a slightly slower pace the rest of the way with perhaps a slight speed up in the final 50 or 100?

Would sets of Y times 100m on 1:30 with Xs rest where I slowly decrease X be a reasonable approach to training for this? Would 6 be a reasonable value for Y?

I've always swam much faster in meets than I can manage in practice, but up to now I've considered the 200 to be a distance event! I'm more used to pushing speed than endurance and pacing. I'm hoping that the extra endurance from training for the 400 free might eventually lead to a better 200 fly.

Thanks in advance for any advice, and for repressing the urge to publicly laugh at how slow my goal time is!

knelson
February 19th, 2008, 02:57 PM
X = 10 seconds should be close.

I would train to hold a steady 1:30 for your 100s. Yes, in the race you'll go out a little faster, but you might also go slightly slower in the middle.

art_z
February 19th, 2008, 03:18 PM
X = 10 seconds should be close.

I would train to hold a steady 1:30 for your 50s. .

yikes! at that pace he'll be doing his 400 in 12:00!

LindsayNB
February 19th, 2008, 03:46 PM
Thanks Kirk! I have a friend on my team who can swim 1:30 endlessly that has agreed to act as rabbit, so I think tonight we'll try 4x100 at 1:30 + 10s rest. We'll see if I can keep under 1:30 for all four. If I can then hopefully I just need to learn to hold that pace.

ande
February 19th, 2008, 04:38 PM
the best test set for the 400 free is:

1 x 400 free FAST
split it right

do the equivalent of what katie did, adjusted for you
1 Hoff, Katie E 18 North Baltimore 4:02.20
28.71 30.09 30.53 30.36 30.20 30.50 30.93 30.88

1) first 50: swim an easy speed 50, breathe every stroke
2) hold the same time for the next 6 lengths
3) last 50: sprint with whatever's left

to train for the 400
get in the middle distance lane and do what your coach tells you to

ande



If I have a goal time of 5:59.99 for the 400m free, but don't have any experience racing this distance, what would be a good test set to gauge where I am now, and what approach to pace training would be good for this event?

I was thinking 4x100 at 1:30 pace with X seconds rest as a test set, but I don't know what value of X to use to give a gauge of ability to do it continuous in a meet.

Secondly, for pacing, should I train to hold a steady 1:30 pace or figure that I'll do the first 50 or 100 faster and then hold a slightly slower pace the rest of the way with perhaps a slight speed up in the final 50 or 100?

Would sets of Y times 100m on 1:30 with Xs rest where I slowly decrease X be a reasonable approach to training for this?
Would 6 be a reasonable value for Y?

I've always swam much faster in meets than I can manage in practice, but up to now I've considered the 200 to be a distance event! I'm more used to pushing speed than endurance and pacing. I'm hoping that the extra endurance from training for the 400 free might eventually lead to a better 200 fly.

Thanks in advance for any advice, and for repressing the urge to publicly laugh at how slow my goal time is!

pwolf66
February 19th, 2008, 09:36 PM
to train for the 400
get in the middle distance lane and do what your coach tells you to

ande

Get in the WHAT? Maybe I'm swimming with the wrong team but we barely have a difference between sprint and distance much less qualifiers on what type of distance.

Paul

LindsayNB
February 19th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Yes, unfortunately we have six lanes, slowest to fastest and the only difference is adjustments to intervals and reps.

geochuck
February 19th, 2008, 09:54 PM
How to pace is to find out how fast you want to go.

1:12
1:16
1:16
1:16 makes a 5 minute 400m.

It is easy to set your required 100 times by setting a goal time.
Then swim them.

LindsayNB
February 20th, 2008, 11:56 PM
Tuesday I felt like the walking dead by the end of workout so I postponed my 400 test set to Wed. night. I decided to save Ande's suggested test until I had a little more confidence and did the 4x100 at 1:30 pace with 10s rest between, with my friend pacing, and I completed it! It wasn't a walk in the park but it wasn't that painful so I'm pretty confident I'm capable of making my 6:00 goal, but pacing will definitely be the challenge! Every 100 felt like the pace had picked up, but they all came in on 1:29.

Based on how it felt tonight I think I can probably do it in 6:00 in practice with my friend pacing, maybe not yet having to pace myself.

geochuck
February 21st, 2008, 12:16 AM
When we did our five minute swims in training we tried to cover 440 yards in that 5 minutes. At first we could not do it. The more we did this the sooner we were able to do it. On Mondays we did a warm up then we did our 5 minute swims.

LindsayNB
March 15th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Last weekend I tried the 400free at a LCM meet, with rather disappointing results, I did a 6:21.

Three things didn't go well: my goggles filled with water on the dive and I stopped to empty them at the first wall, the guy in the next lane had a seed time of 5:45 but actually swam 6:10, so when I thought I was doing well keeping up with him I was actually below pace (he pulled away at the 250m mark), and I may have had a mild flu as I felt exhausted all weekend and into the week.

This week in practice I did a 5:58 400m pull, and it wasn't even that hard. :confused:

So, I guess I need to work further on my pacing and see if I can adjust my balance or kick to be more efficient.

At the meet I had another new experience, I totally died in the 50fly! The first 40m or so felt great and then bam my arms just suddenly lost all power. I've never experienced that before in a 50! Today I added 50s to my usual 25s in my usual fly workout...

Perhaps I'll try to talk my coach into weekly six minute swims...

aztimm
March 17th, 2008, 04:03 PM
Have you tried doing a set including 'broken' swims? For a 400, we may do the following:

1-- 1x400 just cruising, maybe 80-85%
2-- 2x200, break for 15 sec at the 200
3-- 4x100, break for 10 sec at each 100
4-- 8x50, break for 5 sec at each 50
5-- 1x400 fast

Note your times after each (subtracting out the rest), see if/how they vary. If you try that set above, I'd allow about 20-30 sec rest between each round, maybe a little more before the last.

My team did something with 400s (SCY) last Wed, I think it was a 400 fast for time then something like 4x100s (easier) in between.

I tend to like the 200/400 distances, as they give you some leeway if you slip up a turn or something, but aren't so gruesome/boring as the 800/1000/mile (although I've done the 800 a few times).

Iwannafly
March 17th, 2008, 06:36 PM
How to pace is to find out how fast you want to go.


1:16 makes a 5 minute 400m.

It is easy to set your required 100 times by setting a goal time.
Then swim them.

This must be Canadian math;). I'm just kidding George.




... Three things didn't go well: my goggles filled with water on the dive and I stopped to empty them at the first wall...


Lindsay, I can totally relate to the goggle issue. I have to say in my own defense though, that I swim the rest of my 500 with goggles full of water. I missed one turn completely and had to do another open because I nearly head-butted the wall. I also completely lost my goggles in a meet on Saturday. It's fun swimming with goggles around your upper lip! Hopefully I'll get those bugs worked out by Zones!

geochuck
March 17th, 2008, 07:07 PM
How to pace is to find out how fast you want to go.

1:12
1:16
1:16
1:16 makes a 5 minute 400m.

I know this is what I said makes a 5 min four hundred.

Iwannafly
March 17th, 2008, 08:09 PM
How to pace is to find out how fast you want to go.

1:12
1:16
1:16
1:16 makes a 5 minute 400m.

I know this is what I said makes a 5 min four hundred.

Sure enough...I must have learned American math. I thought you were saying that 4 x 1:16 made for a 5 minute 400. I apologize for poking fun at you George, especially since I made the mistake! Oh well!

LindsayNB
March 19th, 2008, 09:17 PM
Hi Tim,

I've done each of those individually (if you count the 400 at the meet for #5) but I've never done them all together as a set. I'll pass it by my coach to see if he'll give it in a workout. If not perhaps I'll have to sacrifice one of my on-my-own butterfly sessions to give it a go. Thanks!


Have you tried doing a set including 'broken' swims? For a 400, we may do the following:

1-- 1x400 just cruising, maybe 80-85%
2-- 2x200, break for 15 sec at the 200
3-- 4x100, break for 10 sec at each 100
4-- 8x50, break for 5 sec at each 50
5-- 1x400 fast

Note your times after each (subtracting out the rest), see if/how they vary. If you try that set above, I'd allow about 20-30 sec rest between each round, maybe a little more before the last.

My team did something with 400s (SCY) last Wed, I think it was a 400 fast for time then something like 4x100s (easier) in between.

I tend to like the 200/400 distances, as they give you some leeway if you slip up a turn or something, but aren't so gruesome/boring as the 800/1000/mile (although I've done the 800 a few times).

LizGoldsmith
March 19th, 2008, 09:38 PM
my goggles filled with water on the dive and I stopped to empty them at the first wall



Now you're pre-disastered for the next race. The first time I swam the mile, my goggles broke in the first 50. I swam the entire race without them and my eyes killed me for days. If my coach hadn't been there, I would have given up for sure.

Now I figure that nothing can be as bad as that!