View Full Version : Duel in the Pool

March 4th, 2003, 10:31 AM
Just a little more than 30 days before the "Duel in the Pool". This is one of the most creative and exciting meet formats that USA Swimming has come up with yet. It's the US vs Australia. It's a duel meet format. The best men and women swimmers from each team compete in a limited number of events, head-to-head for bragging rights of the best swimming team in the world.

For more information check out: http://www.usaswimming.org/Duel/Duel.htm

If the teams are tied then the outcome is decided by a mixed 200 medley relay.

Predictions anyone?

Australia has Thorpe but we have Phelps and Coughlin. Australia has edge in men's freestyle events but we more depth in the strokes. I'm rooting for a close meet because it would be very exciting to see a tie-breaker medley relay BUT US should win it without the relay (why don't they swim it anyway?) .

Whole meet should take three hours or less, is scheduled for Sunday April 6th in Indy and will be broadcast the following week on network TV.

Bert Petersen
March 4th, 2003, 11:04 AM
Sounds interesting and fun..... I will try to watch.
Without notices like this, some of us would never hear of these events.
By the way, it's "dual" meet (as in two-way) unless you are deliberately trying for a play on words with "duel".
English major here........sorry !


Rob Copeland
March 4th, 2003, 05:52 PM

Bob is correct. It is “duel” not “dual”.

And, I’m sure that our friends at USA-Swimming have an English major or two, so I assume the homophone was some marketing brainstorm.

Bert Petersen
March 4th, 2003, 07:02 PM
I see that........thank you.
The "duel in the pool" dual meet should be fun and interesting.


March 5th, 2003, 09:32 AM
Got my tickets in the mail today and am psyched to cheer on the US in person!

Here's how I think things will shake out on Sunday April 6th
(5-3-2-1 individual; 7-0 relays No more than 3 entrants per event)

400 Free Relay

400 IM

100 BA

100 BR

100 FLY

200 BA

200 BR

(Now the US has a pretty good lead based on their depth in strokes. Hold on here come the Aussies and their awesome freestylers. Things get interesting)

50 FR

200 FR

(Australia picks up ground because of their depth on the men's side)

200 FL

800 FR Women-US
1500 FR Men-Australia

(Australia has picke up more ground based on their strength in men's distance)

400 Medlay Relay

(Both are close races but Team US triumphs as the hometown crowd cheers them on)

In the unlikely event of a tie:

200 Mixed Medley Relay

Coughlin, Moses, Phelps and Thompson can beat a relay composed of the best of the rest of the world in this event.

Check out the details at: http://www.usaswimming.org/Duel/Duel.htm

Robin Parisi
March 5th, 2003, 12:21 PM
You forgot to make a call in the 100 Free!

March 5th, 2003, 02:01 PM

100 FR
Men-Australia (One of three wins for Thorpe)
Women-US (Thompson or Coughlin in either case US should win)

What about world records? Anyone care to venture a prediction?

March 5th, 2003, 10:07 PM
I predict a $50,000 bonus going to Ed Moses for Two (2) world records, and the first time in ages that one swimmer will hold both these records. Ed has more speed than any other breaststroker every, he just has never had a perfect long course meters race. He is so far ahead of the rest of the world in the 200 short course meters it is amazing.

So if he has that magic race you may see 57.7 in the 100 and 2:06+ in the 200 breaststrokes.

He just may come through and really excite the home crowd!!!

And he is the main reason why we will win the mens 400 medley relay and if it comes down to it, the mixed relay.

Wayne McCauley

March 6th, 2003, 08:43 AM

I agree that Ed Moses has a very good chance of setting two world records-although he will have to overcome his previous performances when the pressure is really on (2000 Olympic Trials in the 200 and his 100 breast in the Olympics). He does seem to swim much better with less competition-witness his incredible time trial. He has the talent and as a fellow (but much slower) breaststroker I'd love to see it.

I do disagree, however, with your assertion that if there is a 200 mixed medley relay that Moses would be the "main reason" the US would win. I assert that in the unlikely event of such a tie-breaking relay it is Natalie Coughlin who will effectively end the race on the first leg. She is so far ahead of the rest of the world, and especially the Australians, in this event. The Aussies do have some decent men breaststrokers (not as good as Moses in the sprints) but no one can touch Natalie. She will simply gap the Aussies right off the start when she comes up at 15 meters-race over!
There are a lot of very talented swimmers in the world right now, and quite a few will be swimming that day. Natalie however is in a class of her own and is the ONLY legitimate threat to repeat the Spitz performance in 1972. (Without the new format of prelims, semis, etc she would probably do it). Thorpe especially gets a lot of press but right now he is not favored or rank #1 in the four individual events-nor is Phelps. Natalie is a triple threat in the free/back/fly.

March 6th, 2003, 11:51 AM
I do not think that at this moment Natalie Coughlin is as dominant long course meters as she should be. Her 49.9 hundred yards back should equate to a 57 in long course meters, the world was happy when she only did a 59+.

I have looked at last years NCAA video tape a hundred times, she is awesome, gaining over a body length over everyone after the start and each turn. But swimming alone she is not as dominant.

We are indeed fortunate that the Australian ladies are not as good as the europeans in free, back and fly. Natalie should win all three 100 meters races by at least a half a second. If this dual in the pool was shourt course meters she would get at least 6 golds.

We finally have men who can do 51+ for 100 meter fly, that has been our weakest event since 1992.

I hope they have underwater shots of the swimmers like the Olympics. We can all learn form the great swimmers.


March 6th, 2003, 12:10 PM

I agree with you that Moses is a better candidate for a world record that day then Natalie largely because she will swim two weeks after her shave/taper for NCAA and Moses will likely target Spring Nationals. A number of the US NCAA women swimmers will be at a similar "disadvantage". (The Men will have only one week from their taper).


I once asked John Flanagan, who has coached quite a few swimmers to success at all level, what "conversion factor" to use going from SC to LC--his answer was "none, there two different sports."

Having said that, while you might think that Natalie "should" swim a 57 but "only" swims a 59 for LCM it still better than any other woman has managed so far.

March 9th, 2003, 12:43 AM
I think that Natalie will probably win her races and hope that Moses will go under the 1:00 mark

March 17th, 2003, 11:49 AM

could it really happen? it would be a shame

March 17th, 2003, 02:36 PM
That would be more than a shame. In the recent edition of Splash, US Swimming talks about how difficult it was to schedule this meet. It's pretty obvious that if cancelled for April 6th then it will be nearly impossible to get it re-scheduled this year and next year everyone will be focused on the Olympics.

Let's hope this event goes off as planned for all the reasons.

March 18th, 2003, 12:30 AM
There could be trouble in the pool. The near-certainty of a war with Iraq in the coming days may be putting into doubt whether the Duel in the Pool will happen.


March 18th, 2003, 11:41 AM
If u have checked Swim info, Petria Thomas has also been scratched from the meet for Australia because of needed shoulder surgery.

March 19th, 2003, 11:18 AM
I notice that there are alot of elite swimmers who having severe shoulder problems. Maybe, they should have more breastroke in workouts to avoid so much free, or fly, or back. Or maybe doing high milegage in swimming just takes its toll if its done over a number of years. Women swimmers 30 years ago quit at age 19 or 20 and many of them are staying into their 20's now, I'm talking about of course about non-master's swimming.

April 3rd, 2003, 12:48 PM
Well we've lost some of the Aussies to the SCARED virus as reported by www.swinfo.com on 4/1 but it looks like we'll see some fast swimming anyway. Phelps just proved that he's a force in just about every stroke at every distance and Moses should prove to be a very entertaining swimmer and may even fulfill Wayne's prediction if he can learn how to control himself in the first half of his races. (Why not save it for Sunday Ed and earn that $50,000?)

Will the coaches put Phelps in the 200 and see if he can beat Hackett head-to-head? Will Peirsol's 1:39 200 SCY back translate into a 1:54 or even 1:53 200 back?

Doesn't Thorpe now look vulnerable given his current "virus-stricken" state?

I bet there be some pretty interesting talk along these, and other lines, in Indianiapolis this Sunday morning.

Any predictions of great performances out there?

April 7th, 2003, 03:03 AM
Well, there was a world record and our men team looks good and we have a lot of women strength too. I think we will end up with more gold in Athens than we have in a long time. And the first meet in Athens in 1896, we had one swimmer according to the TV story, didn't want to swim because it was too cold in the lake. The Aussie's had some injuries and some sickness and wanted to safe themselves.

April 7th, 2003, 01:08 PM
We saw some great swimming yesterday. Great atmosphere too with lots of very charged kids cheering on their favorite swimmers. Only thing missing was a close dual meet since the Aussie team was missing some of their stars (they still would have lost).

Pretty tough performances by the college women who had to swim 2+ weeks plus after their taper. The men had a similar problem but had the advantage of being one week closer to their taper.

Phelps performance was, as reported, awesome--especially in the 200 fly. He was clearly tired after 400 IM and 100 fly and was racing against a fresh Malchow. Behind by a lot at the 150 he managed to catch up with a tremendous finish. He's mentally just as tough as he is physically.

Also his stroke was pretty interesting. Flattest butterfly I've seen since Pankrotov (spelling?). He hardly moves his head and it appears as if his head is immobile and his body rotates around it (that's probably impossible). He defintely doesn't look "down" in the non-breathing stroke and doesn't look "up" in the breathing stroke. His head also appeared absolutely motionless in the backstroke (more so, then Lenny K or Peirsol).

Natalie Coughin was not in top form and it showed in the 400 free relay but her 100 back, with little rest from the relay, was pretty impressive. Especially, her kick off the turn.

Moses actually held back in the first 100 of his 200 and looked great (and said he felt great) at the finish. He'll break those world records at worlds if he follow that kind of race plan.

Things look pretty good for the US next year.

This will be broadcast next week on NBC so check your local listings.

Anyone else see this meet out there?

April 7th, 2003, 01:13 PM
The meet was so under-publicized that I actually forgot about it until someone was talking about it at workout last night. From the results, calling it a "Duel" was, well, not quite correct.


April 8th, 2003, 01:28 AM
It seem to me that all the guys in the 400 medley relay did their best times and that Moses broke a minute in the breast even going faster than the world record holder. I know rolling start but still a darn good time. Check it out. I was at a meet so didn't get to see it but got to see the NCAA mens championships. Did u say it will be on again this next weekend???

April 8th, 2003, 09:58 AM
Yes, NBC will broadcast it this weekend. Check out your local listing.

April 11th, 2003, 02:25 PM
Duel in the Pool to be broadcast on NBC this weekend.

Here in the Boston area it can be seen on Channel 7 (or 10) starting at 3:00 pm on Saturday and 1:30 pm on Sunday.

You'll see some great swimming.

Bill Feesh
April 13th, 2003, 01:43 PM
I accidently stumbled on the meet on T.V. "surfing" during my lunch break. The swimming was excellent and exciting. I also was impressed with everyones attitude. Thanking the other team for coming and doing well.
I hope anyone that watched "learned from the pro's" as far as stroke styles, turns, etc., goes.
The commercial about the "guy" getting up every mornig to chase Lenny's times really was done well, I could totally relate. Also it's cool to think that you can accually meet some of these people face to face at a meet or just going to the locker room is reason enough to carry a camera to meets.
Recently someone we know passed on and I got to thinking that I didn't get to say a few things, one of them was to thank them for being part of my everyday life (good and bad) and getting up everyday just to be counted as part of the "crazy people" that show up to do what they love. So thank you all for your help and support on this site and all you do day to day, you help make it fun.

Bill:) :cool:

April 14th, 2003, 12:00 AM
Yeah, or you could have been on a team with elite swimmers, I was once on a team with Gary Hall Sr and Shirley Babashoff and Bruce and Steve Furness. So, a lot of us medocre swimmers share the pool with elite swimmers. I found out later on I swam on a novice team with John Mykkenian- silver medalist in 1984. He was only 5 or 6 years old while I was 13 or 14 years old at the time that we were on the same team. Also, I competed against Leia F in novice meets back in 1969 and 1970 and she who was about 1 and half younger than me at the time , went to the fame Lakewood California AAU team of the 1970' ands made the olympic team in 100 meter butterfly in 1976.. A lot of us medocre swimmers have been on teams with people that made the olympics or nationals, so it not that hard for people to have met olympic swimmers in their lifetime.

April 14th, 2003, 09:11 AM
The broadcast pretty fairly represented the event (except for the fiction of Day 1 and Day 2). I'd estimate that more than half the crowd was composed of kids 15 or under. A lot of them got autographs from the swimmers and I saw Neil Walker (I'm sure he wasn't the only one) take time out between events to sign swimming caps.

Again, Phelps fly is quite unique. I'm sure you noticed his unusual head position (always forward never down or up) AND the fact that he breathes every stroke!

I heard that a recent article in Swimming Technique discusses the approach that Phelps and Bowman (his coach) take towards fly training. Can anyone out there summarizes it for the rest of us?

April 22nd, 2007, 07:53 PM
Can anyone tell me which music was featured on "Dual in the Pool"?

I heard a song that kept getting played when NBC would come back from commercials.