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Stillhere
May 6th, 2008, 10:57 AM
Dara Torres is featured on E-60 ESPN 2 tonight at 6PM EDST.
The program is geared toward her remarkable goal and chances to swim in the Olympics this summer at 41---

JMiller
May 6th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Is there any chance someone can send this to Utube, or something, so I can watch it. A link perhaps? I admit, the links on this forum have kept me very informed, I really appreciate that, and see great value in this.


Dara Torres is featured on E-60 ESPN 2 tonight at 6PM EDST.
The program is geared toward her remarkable goal and chances to swim in the Olympics this summer at 41---

waves101
May 7th, 2008, 09:13 AM
Can anyone who caught it provide a synopsis? I was working in my yard and forgot all about it. No DVR either (I know...get with the times).

geochuck
May 7th, 2008, 09:34 AM
Here is one report http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3384672&categoryId=3060647

Another part of the story http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3384518&categoryId=3060647&n8pe6c=2

Swimmer Bill
May 7th, 2008, 12:40 PM
I'd never seen the show before - and probably wouldn't watch it again unless there was a swimmer featured - but enjoyed the segment on Dara.

A lot of the focus was on whether or not she's clean. To me, some of the commentators came across as not very bright when they asked the drug questions. They missed an opportunity to find out what she has done. The doorway to her comeback was Masters swimming, and everyone sitting around the table let the reference to Masters slide by without comment. Disappointing, but not surprising.

Dara was radiant, as always. Her reaction to the haters was something I hadn't really seen before in an interview. To me, she came across as a person who has nothing to hide, but I've always believed that.

The most stunning thing about the segment was seeing footage of Dara setting the American Record at 40 alongside footage of the Mommy & Me swim class with her two-year-old daughter, Tessa. The most unexpected thing was the suggestion that having a child improved her flexibility.

Paul Smith
May 7th, 2008, 12:58 PM
Her reaction to the haters was something I hadn't really seen before in an interview. To me, she came across as a person who has nothing to hide, but I've always believed that.

Bill I'd like to ask...define "haters"?

I by no means have read everything written about Dara but can't say I have read anything I would describe as "hateful"...thats a VERY strong statement and I'd love examples? Some hard questioning, some cheat shots but nothing that extreme.

I have been very vocal in my questioning of her and several others recent transformations and accomplishments...so does this make me a "hater"? For the record I don't hate anyone (at the moment) but I hate cheating and injustice and because of that willing to ask hard questions.

Swimmer Bill
May 7th, 2008, 01:09 PM
In the segment, there was a comment from Orlando Sentinel newspaper columnist Andrea Adelson who said athletes like Torres,

"...might as well show us where they keep the vials of human growth hormone."

I feel that comment is hateful.

aquageek
May 7th, 2008, 01:12 PM
The most stunning thing about the segment was seeing footage of Dara setting the American Record at 40 alongside footage of the Mommy & Me swim class with her two-year-old daughter, Tessa. The most unexpected thing was the suggestion that having a child improved her flexibility.

The most stunning thing was her sweet house. The most unexpected thing is that her boyfriend won't man-up and marry her. Then again, you never know what she's packing down low after all that German juice.

She was quite candid about her approach to drug testing and I found her honesty appealing. That, however, was contrasted with her kitchen full of hocus pocus stuff. As a fan of the hocum pocum I admire her regimen of supplementation but I do realize it's just a way to get my money.

Swimmer Bill
May 7th, 2008, 01:22 PM
you never know what she's packing down low after all that German juice.

That's offensive.

carlos_fernandez
May 7th, 2008, 01:23 PM
hocus pocus stuff. As a fan of the hocum pocum
cute ;)

JMiller
May 7th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Another part of the story http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3384518&categoryId=3060647&n8pe6c=2

This video was interesting... If they ever do another round table discussion like that, talking about Dara Torres, I'd like to be sitting there.
Wasn't Andrechuck (spelling?) 46 when he won the Stanley Cup?

geochuck
May 7th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Dave , I knew his father,was a Hamiltonian I think he was 40 when he got they Stanley Cup ring. Gordie Howe one of the greatest played at 51 years of age. http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/LegendsMember.jsp?mem=p197204&type=Player&page=bio&list=#photo

TheGoodSmith
May 7th, 2008, 02:00 PM
There were some truly idiotic comments during that interview. e.g. saying that her ankle flexibility and elongated body were reasons for her success. That statement describes 80% of the talent at US Nationals.

Let's face it..... Anything that is laying out on her kitchen counter in front of the cameras is not going to have the "kick" of an illegal supplement. That whole thing was a complete waste of time and uneccessary. She is known for taking a lot of supplements already. She did this type of loading before 2000. Do we not remember the articles before Sydney? Read the 7th paragraph in the artcile below.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/performance-enhancing-drugs-swimming.htm

Personally, I thought the interview added little informative value and gave more lime light to Dara.

Jazz Hands
May 7th, 2008, 02:23 PM
Personally, I thought the interview added little informative value and gave more lime light to Dara.

I learned that she's very disingenuous about her drug use. Bronchodilators can have a performance-enhancing effect beyond just "breathing capacity," as she says.

TheGoodSmith
May 7th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Jazz Hands,

You are correct. I take an inhaler (albuterol) prior to workouts and races. It definitely has a stimulant effect in addition to opening up your bronchial tubes to maximum capacity.

John Smith

Paul Smith
May 7th, 2008, 02:35 PM
Jazz Hands,

You are correct. I take an inhaler (albuterol) prior to workouts and races. It definitely has a stimulant effect in addition to opening up your bronchial tubes to maximum capacity.

John Smith

As I have said in a prior thread "John Smith is a cheater!"

The cheater suit
The cheater inhaler
The cheater dolfin kicks
The cheater working out with kids

I want my 50 record back...now!

USMS Championship Cmt nows your chance to provide some justice!

The Fortress
May 7th, 2008, 02:38 PM
I didn't find it informative either. Just a PR vehicle.

And I have to agree with Goodsmith about the flexibility comment. She is flexible because she has two daily stretchers, not from childbirth. Wonderful though they are, childbirth and children are a hindrance to swimming faster, not conducive to it. Sorry, its true. Many of the most elite women masters swimmers don't have kids. Besides, I have three kids and, while quite flexible, I am not as flexible as when young. I'm sure I could do more.


I think I need to consult Geek and Paul on hocus pocus means of recovery!

aquageek
May 7th, 2008, 02:45 PM
I learned that she's very disingenuous about her drug use. Bronchodilators can have a performance-enhancing effect beyond just "breathing capacity," as she says.

I'm with JH on this. She states she puffs up to put her on a level playing field with other swimmers in a race. That completely missed the point that she should take these to avoid a medical issue/emergency, as with Fort. That right there indicates there is no therapeutic value of this for her, at race time anyway. There's a competition value, clearly.

Paul Smith
May 7th, 2008, 02:50 PM
In the segment, there was a comment from Orlando Sentinel newspaper columnist Andrea Adelson who said athletes like Torres,

"...might as well show us where they keep the vials of human growth hormone."

I feel that comment is hateful.

A very sarcastic cheap shot & very Geek worthy in my opinion but for me "hate" is reserved for something that borders on or surpasses evil...Hitler, David Duke, FLDS child molesters, etc.

Jazz Hands
May 7th, 2008, 02:50 PM
I'm with JH on this.

I think I'll save this quote and use it out of context in the future. :kiss1:

swimcat
May 7th, 2008, 02:57 PM
:Lurking::Lurking::Lurking:
Jazz Hands,

You are correct. I take an inhaler (albuterol) prior to workouts and races. It definitely has a stimulant effect in addition to opening up your bronchial tubes to maximum capacity.

John Smith

what kind of albuterol do you use? i use an inhaler, advair and just got off prednisone and swam great on the prednisone. for me, it depends on the pool. I was used to swimming outdoors and am now indoors with the windows closed.

scyfreestyler
May 7th, 2008, 03:58 PM
Re:inhalers.

The host states that she has a prescription for the inhalers based upon a condition diagnosed back in the 90's. Surely there is a performance enhancing attribute to these medications, but in her case there is also a therapeutic one.

It also states that she takes them about 30 minutes before a race. If there is a stimulant effect to this medication, does it maintain it's effect for 30 minutes?

TheGoodSmith
May 7th, 2008, 03:59 PM
My use of the inhaler seems to be more seasonal than anything else. Spring time always kicks off my allergies. Note, I use Proventil before workouts and races as well as Singular before bedtime. Still, though, I have have excercise induced phases during workouts if I forget my medication for several days this time of year. There are times when I don't need it for many months. Then it creeps back and I notice I am hanging on the walls gasping for air wondering why I am so old and out of shape. It's a pain.

Regardless of my condition, I feel the inhaler absolutely benefits my races from the stimulant kick before the event.

The Fortress
May 7th, 2008, 04:04 PM
Jazz Hands,

You are correct. I take an inhaler (albuterol) prior to workouts and races. It definitely has a stimulant effect in addition to opening up your bronchial tubes to maximum capacity.

John Smith

I have never noticed any stimulant effect to speak of from one hit of an inhaler. Could be that my nervous system is already depressed from antihistamines.

I agree with GoodSmith on regularity. If I forget to take my allergy meds or inhaler (if I'm wheezy) for a few days, I'm screwed and get sick. Spring and fall are by far the worst. Singular is probably the most helpful thing I take to control this problem, and allows you to lay off the inhaler.

scyfreestyler
May 7th, 2008, 04:04 PM
So your medical condition has, in a roundabout way, given you a leg up on the competition.

TheGoodSmith
May 7th, 2008, 04:10 PM
"So your medical condition has, in a roundabout way, given you a leg up on the competition"

Depends if you are genuinely having an attack before your race. If you are taking the albuterol as a preventative for excercise induced asthma as I do then you may be correct. I can't say you are absolutely correct as I have never seen any studies.

If you are actually having an attack and wheezing before your race and you take the albuterol to calm it down, I would disagree with your statement. Your bronchial tubes and lungs are stressed out. You are probably only returning to "normal" after the dosage even considering the stimulant effect.

FlyQueen
May 7th, 2008, 04:16 PM
I didn't find it informative either. Just a PR vehicle.

And I have to agree with Goodsmith about the flexibility comment. She is flexible because she has two daily stretchers, not from childbirth. Wonderful though they are, childbirth and children are a hindrance to swimming faster, not conducive to it. Sorry, its true. Many of the most elite women masters swimmers don't have kids. Besides, I have three kids and, while quite flexible, I am not as flexible as when young. I'm sure I could do more.


I think I need to consult Geek and Paul on hocus pocus means of recovery!


I do believe there were some very flexible looking splits busted out at a bar in Austin.

geochuck
May 7th, 2008, 04:16 PM
A little snort Fort and you never noticed the benifit.

Have you tried it without a snort Fort?

I guess it would be like slower without a snort.

Is that something like I had a puff but did not inhale it.

aquageek
May 7th, 2008, 04:23 PM
She only takes it BEFORE a race, by her own admission. That is what makes me highly skeptical. Even Capt Cheater himself admits to using it at all times, not just when it can be of competition benefit. Big difference. Note she also did not state her condition, very vague there. I've not known anyone to not state they use an inhaler for asthma.

"I have asthma, I use an inhaler." Very simple. Don't know why she doesn't say this UNLESS IT'S FOR OTHER REASONS.

I take Claritin every single day March to August, not just on race days.

The Fortress
May 7th, 2008, 04:28 PM
A little snort Fort and you never noticed the benifit.

Have you tried it without a snort Fort?

I guess it would be like slower without a snort.

Is that something like I had a puff but did not inhale it.

George, I know you're teasing, but GET REAL! Any normal person would not wish to have allergies and asthma. I was sick from mid-Dec. to mid-March this year with sinusitis and bronchitis. It completely destroys the quality of your life and does not in any way enhance racing or training. To the contrary! If someone is just taking a hit before they race and at no other time, Geek is right, they probably shouldn't be taking it at all. I only use an inhaler when I need it to breathe or fear not breathing. (Seeing imspoiled crawl out of the pool wheezing at zones is enough to scare anyone.) Unfortunately, I do think pools aggravate pre-existing respiratory problems or can trigger them. Pollen and ragweed too. Anything green or with fur, really. If you'd care to have my condition, it's FOR SALE!!! Now excuse me while I go take a hit before my early evening run. I'm still hacking and gasping.

Oh, yes, I've raced plenty of times without an inhaler. Depends upon how my respiratory system is doing at that moment.

FlyQueen, we FAFs may be lacking in the elongation category, but we can really rock our splits!! My lack of warm up did not even cause an injury. lol

poolraat
May 7th, 2008, 04:37 PM
FlyQueen, we FAFs may be lacking in the elongation category, but we can really rock our splits!! My lack of warm up did not even cause an injury. lol

I think you FAF's got your warmup from all the beer you consumed at the Beer Garden.

Stillhere
May 7th, 2008, 04:42 PM
I am with that cheating Smith on his thoughts on "hate" being way to stern and frankly, offensive. Exactly like my comment in the singles club swimming thread regarding "homophobic" over a post there; why on earth do honest legitimate questions regarding what appears to be suspect times/swimming for a 41 year old woman become "hate"? Let's leave these lables out of this--

scyfreestyler
May 7th, 2008, 04:51 PM
I am with that cheating Smith on his thoughts on "hate" being way to stern and frankly, offensive. Exactly like my comment in the singles club swimming thread regarding "homophobic" over a post there; why on earth do honest legitimate questions regarding what appears to be suspect times/swimming for a 41 year old woman become "hate"? Let's leave these lables out of this--

Is this an honest and legitimate question?

"...might as well show us where they keep the vials of human growth hormone."

Furthermore, suggesting that she is a cheater is labeling, no?

chowmi
May 7th, 2008, 05:04 PM
The show will be rerun. I did a search and yippee I can even get it on HD.
It's on next Monday at some time. I forget what time. I had to tape around all my HGTV shows.

Swimmer Bill
May 7th, 2008, 05:17 PM
Love HGTV!

Gratz Michelle and all your SMU teammates on a phenomenal meet. I'd love to hear a little more about how the SMU group came together this year for Nationals. Was it an alumni group? When you get a moment, please send me an e-mail (editor@usms.org).

swimcat
May 7th, 2008, 05:58 PM
[quote=The Fortress;132834]George, I know you're teasing, but GET REAL! Any normal person would not wish to have allergies and asthma. I was sick from mid-Dec. to mid-March this year with sinusitis and bronchitis. It completely destroys the quality of your life and does not in any way enhance racing or training. To the contrary! If someone is just taking a hit before they race and at no other time, Geek is right, they probably shouldn't be taking it at all. I only use an inhaler when I need it to breathe or fear not breathing. (Seeing imspoiled crawl out of the pool wheezing at zones is enough to scare anyone.) Unfortunately, I do think pools aggravate pre-existing respiratory problems or can trigger them. Pollen and ragweed too. Anything green or with fur, really. If you'd care to have my condition, it's FOR SALE!!! Now excuse me while I go take a hit before my early evening run. I'm still hacking and gasping.

i can relate to imspoiled. I think I scare people sometimes wheezing. hypoxic sets are a real blast:rofl: I totally agree about pools aggravating existing respiratory conditions. I have had to change my breathing pattern when i swim fly now to 2up, one down on anything over a 50. it is really different. Anyway for anyone with REAL asthma there is nothing more scary than feeling like you can't breath. on a different note, when i am at the beach I breath ok and when i ski.

LindsayNB
May 7th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Swimming World had an article in 1998:
Asthma medicines: Rx for speed? (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3883/is_199809/ai_n8821897)
Extensive talk about Amy Van Dyken and Tom Dolan.

scyfreestyler
May 7th, 2008, 10:27 PM
Interesting article Lindsay.


In the scope of drug cheating, the potential misuse of asthma medications does not alarm experts. Perhaps most important, many of these medications have minimal side effects, such as nausea or the jitters. So, they are relatively safe.

Furthermore, allergists and pulmonologists told Swimming World that asthma medications taken through an inhaler have no performance-enhancing qualities.

"It wouldn't do anything for someone who isn't asthmatic," said Storms, who performed tests on athletes at the U.S. Olympic Committee Training Center. Storms gave healthy athletes albuterol, a short-acting beta-agonist, and found no performance improvement.

Ripple
May 7th, 2008, 11:36 PM
I get asthma from seasonal allergies and used a salbutamol inhaler from March to June and September through November. I've never noticed any stimulent effect either, and I'm don't think they'd open your tubes any wider than they'd naturally go. I certainly don't experience any dramatic improvement.
Corticosteroid inhalers might give a mild improvement from causing a faster recovery from hard efforts, but taking them just before a race probably wouldn't make any difference in the race itself. Over the counter epinephrine inhalers are a different story - you can get seriously hyper on them.

Mswimming
May 8th, 2008, 11:41 AM
Then it creeps back and I notice I am hanging on the walls gasping for air wondering why I am so old and out of shape. It's a pain.




That's asthma? Fairly often after a hard swim during work out I feel like I just can't catch my breath. Especially sprints. Feels like there is no possible way to get in enough air. And it seems like it takes me longer to get air and recover than everyone else. Until now I thought it might just be that they're sand bagging and not swimming as hard as I was.

I've also noticed, especially since the fires we had in So Cal back in the fall, that any time things are dusty my chest feels tight. Similar to how it felt back in the 70's and early 80's when the smog was bad.

Am I being paranoid or should I go check this out?

The Fortress
May 8th, 2008, 11:50 AM
That's asthma? Fairly often after a hard swim during work out I feel like I just can't catch my breath. Especially sprints. Feels like there is no possible way to get in enough air. And it seems like it takes me longer to get air and recover than everyone else. Until now I thought it might just be that they're sand bagging and not swimming as hard as I was.

I've also noticed, especially since the fires we had in So Cal back in the fall, that any time things are dusty my chest feels tight. Similar to how it felt back in the 70's and early 80's when the smog was bad.

Am I being paranoid or should I go check this out?

Yeah, breathing hard isn't asthma. Wheezing is a decidedly different sensation.

I've found I can't sit in front of a fire anymore, which sucks in the winter. I immediately start wheezing and my eyes go crazy. Smoke, dust and pollutants in the air are also very bad for the respiratory system -- and often curtail my running. So you might want to check it out.

smontanaro
May 8th, 2008, 03:28 PM
I've also noticed, especially since the fires we had in So Cal back in the fall, that any time things are dusty my chest feels tight. Similar to how it felt back in the 70's and early 80's when the smog was bad.

I went to UCLA in the early 70's. Back then I was mostly a runner. On especially smoggy days I would have trouble taking deep breaths during runs. Since then I've associated that with the term "exercise-induced asthma", though that's probably incorrect.

Skip Montanaro

imspoiled
May 8th, 2008, 03:43 PM
That's asthma? Fairly often after a hard swim during work out I feel like I just can't catch my breath. Especially sprints. Feels like there is no possible way to get in enough air. And it seems like it takes me longer to get air and recover than everyone else. Until now I thought it might just be that they're sand bagging and not swimming as hard as I was.

I've also noticed, especially since the fires we had in So Cal back in the fall, that any time things are dusty my chest feels tight. Similar to how it felt back in the 70's and early 80's when the smog was bad.

Am I being paranoid or should I go check this out?

It's not just feeling like you can't catch your breath, it's actually feeling like no matter how hard you try, air will not get in. It's frightening when it happens, and even when you're familiar with the feeling it can induce a bit of panic. There are days when I can literally feel my chest tighten when I walk out on the pool deck, the air is that bad. If you really feel uncomfortable, talk to your doctor.

Now, I'll out myself... After the "150" back incident at zones, I started using my rescue inhaler right before my races as a preventative. Did it boost my performance? Not at zones (I was feeling pretty crappy for the rest of that meet), but at nationals I was able to finish the 200 back; however, no records were set in the process. Other than that, it brought me peace of mind. I equate that to the mental effect of wearing a tech-suit.

Dana