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ande
May 9th, 2008, 08:07 PM
2008 International Invitational Toyota Grand Prix Swim Meet
May 15 - 18, 2008
George Haines International Swim Center
Santa Clara, California

Real Time Results (http://competitive.santaclaraswimclub.org/Meets/2008International/Results/index.htm)


http://competitive.santaclaraswimclub.org/Meets/2008International/Main.htm

meet sheet (http://competitive.santaclaraswimclub.org/Meets/2008International/CompleteMeetSheet.pdf)

schedule of events (http://competitive.santaclaraswimclub.org/Meets/2008International/ScheduleOfEventsAndTimeStandards.pdf)

psyche sheet (http://competitive.santaclaraswimclub.org/Meets/2008International/Psych.pdf)

scyfreestyler
May 9th, 2008, 08:09 PM
Oh wow, they moved this meet up quite a bit this year for the Olympics. I have gone for the past three years but not sure I'll make this one.

ande
May 9th, 2008, 08:11 PM
many texas swimmers are going
it should be very fast
they also put the prelims of the 1,500 on Thursday and Finals on Sunday

scyfreestyler
May 9th, 2008, 08:16 PM
I've seen Hansen and Piersol there a few times. Don't think Crocker has been on the roster any of the times I have attended. Last year it was fun to watch Phelps and Lochte go head to head.

Midas
May 9th, 2008, 08:32 PM
Funny/pathetic story--there's a copy of the meet sheet tacked to our team's bulletin board (our team is located in the Bay Area). I thought it was there as notice of a meet people might want to swim in, but didn't really look at it since the meet is mostly during the week (and is coming up quickly). I just looked at the meet sheet on line. I thought to myself, "wow these qualifying times aren't too bad... I could enter this meet". And then I realized that I was reading the women's qualifying times. Turns out I couldn't even make the "bonus" qualifying times (which are a couple of seconds slower than the "true" qualifying times). Yikes!

So I guess the meet sheet was just posted for people interested in going to *watch* this meet. It should be pretty darn fast, too.

Frank Thompson
May 9th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Michigan Masters has a swimmer at this meet. He has qualified for the Olympic Trials in the 100 Meter Back. He broke the USMS Record and went faster than the World Record at the Grand Prix meet in Columbus, OH. He was 3rd at the 50 turn to Aaron Piersol and David Cromwell but lost 2 seconds on the last 50 but went :57.00 for the fastest time ever in the 25-29 age group in masters. Because this was not a sanctioned masters meet, he only gets credit for the USMS Record. He is working real hard to improve his time when Omaha rolls around.

His name is Kevin Doak and he is 27. He was featured in Swimming World magazine a couple months back with Chris Stevenson for setting backstroke records. He has set 8 USMS National Records in the last 8 months. He is the real deal. He even has his own website at http://www.kevindoak.com/ and a lot of masters swimmers know about him because he set his National records at the TYR Grand Prix. He received the Lawrence Award in Michigan this year for his outstanding performances. He was also a USMS All Star in the 25-29 age group.

CreamPuff
May 9th, 2008, 08:52 PM
Awesome for him and Masters.
Boy, does he train a lot - almost as much as me. 7 Days a week, 6-7 hours a day.



Michigan Masters has a swimmer at this meet. He has qualified for the Olympic Trials in the 100 Meter Back. He broke the USMS Record and went faster than the World Record at the Grand Prix meet in Columbus, OH. He was 3rd at the 50 turn to Aaron Piersol and David Cromwell but lost 2 seconds on the last 50 but went :57.00 for the fastest time ever in the 25-29 age group in masters. Because this was not a sanctioned masters meet, he only gets credit for the USMS Record. He is working real hard to improve his time when Omaha rolls around.

His name is Kevin Doak and he is 27. He was featured in Swimming World magazine a couple months back with Chris Stevenson for setting backstroke records. He has set 8 USMS National Records in the last 8 months. He is the real deal. He even has his own website at http://www.kevindoak.com/ and a lot of masters swimmers know about him because he set his National records at the TYR Grand Prix. He received the Lawrence Award in Michigan this year for his outstanding performances. He was also a USMS All Star in the 25-29 age group.

ehoch
May 10th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Good for him, but the whole "I broke a World Record" story that did not count" must be a joke. I am too lazy to check out all the 25-29 swimmers in the world, but I am sure there is somebody in that age-group going a 54+ in the 100 Back. Not sure where he is training - but honestly, I barely consider myself a good Masters swimmer and I am turning 40 this year.

Brian Stack
May 10th, 2008, 01:51 PM
Good for him, but the whole "I broke a World Record" story that did not count" must be a joke. I am too lazy to check out all the 25-29 swimmers in the world, but I am sure there is somebody in that age-group going a 54+ in the 100 Back. Not sure where he is training - but honestly, I barely consider myself a good Masters swimmer and I am turning 40 this year.

Yeah, Frank's always pulling our legs here! You do know we're talking long course, right?

USMS Records
Men's LCM 100 Back Records
Age Group Name Date Time
M18-24 Leif Lyons 08-13-07 58.92
M25-29 John Keppeler 08-23-92 58.24
M30-34 Sean Murphy 07-09-94 58.66
M35-39 Michael Ross 08-10-06 59.18
M40-44 Rich Saeger 07-16-06 1:00.64
M45-49 Steve Wood 08-10-06 1:01.73
M50-54 Tom Wolf 08-15-04 1:04.83
M55-59 Gary Hall 08-10-06 1:06.16
M60-64 Hugh Wilder 06-02-07 1:08.77
M65-69 Yoshi Oyakawa 08-23-99 1:16.78
Richard Burns 04-23-08 1:13.85*
M70-74 Yoshi Oyakawa 08-08-04 1:19.12
M75-79 Clarke Mitchell 08-13-07 1:26.00
M80-84 Ray Taft 08-23-99 1:35.36
M85-89 Aldo Da Rosa 07-14-02 1:49.54
M90-94 Woody Bowersock 06-23-03 2:10.36
M95-99 Tom Lane 07-05-92 3:19.14
M100-104 Tom Lane 07-09-94 4:13.84

FINA World Masters Records as of '07

25-29 57.45 04/13/1997 NZL JON WINTER 100 M. BACK LCM

Not seeing that :54+ here, unless :57 is close enough for ya.

Jazz Hands
May 10th, 2008, 02:03 PM
I think ehoch is talking about swimmers in all meets, not just Masters.

Randall Bal went 53.66 last year. Aaron Peirsol is going to turn 25 before the Olympics. This is why Masters records in the lower age groups aren't very meaningful.

Chris Stevenson
May 10th, 2008, 02:12 PM
FINA does not accept masters records set at USA-S meets while USMS does (assuming, of course, that all the proper paperwork is turned in).

That's why he could set a USMS (national) record for his age group that is faster than the FINA (world) record. That's what Frank meant by the statement that it "doesn't count."

ande
May 10th, 2008, 02:46 PM
There's plenty of 25 - 29 year olds who obliterate the backstroke times he's done, they just don't swim masters

let's see how he does 20 years from now

ehoch you're an awesome masters swimmer


Good for him, but the whole "I broke a World Record" story that did not count" must be a joke. I am too lazy to check out all the 25-29 swimmers in the world, but I am sure there is somebody in that age-group going a 54+ in the 100 Back. Not sure where he is training - but honestly, I barely consider myself a good Masters swimmer and I am turning 40 this year.

Brian Stack
May 10th, 2008, 05:54 PM
I think ehoch is talking about swimmers in all meets, not just Masters.

Randall Bal went 53.66 last year. Aaron Peirsol is going to turn 25 before the Olympics. This is why Masters records in the lower age groups aren't very meaningful.

Pretty clear to me that Frank (the post ehoch was responding to) was talking Masters.
I'd bet that the Masters World marks are meaningful to those who hold them, and perhaps those who coach them. There are a number of Masters swimmers who have made trials cuts this time around. I doubt anyone in FINA is worried about them breaking any "real" world records. Should that make them any less excited to be at trials?
I imagine we'll see a few local Masters at Santa Clara trying to make cut times, should be fun to watch.

Sam Perry
May 10th, 2008, 07:31 PM
All of this brings up the age old (no pun intended) discussion.

What is a "Masters Swimmer"?

Is it someone over the age of 18?
Is it someone who has a USMS card?
Is it someone who swims in 1 meet their whole life and sets all kinds of records?
Is it someone who is over the age of 35?

My OPINION is that a Masters Swimmer is someone who trains and competes, if they so choose, in USMS but has a life with job, family, etc. They swim for fun, conditioning and good old fashioned competition.

If you looked at USMS nationals this year, for the most part it was the true meaning of Masters Swimming. I am sure Aaron, Neil, Brendan, Ian, etc. could have hopped in and swam amazingly well setting all kinds of records. What Josh Davis, Jeff Commings, Mike Ross, and the Smiths did as well as Susan VDL and many others on the women's side is what top level masters swimming is about.

Just a few thoughts to ponder. Have at it...

Chris Stevenson
May 10th, 2008, 07:49 PM
All of this brings up the age old (no pun intended) discussion.

What is a "Masters Swimmer"?

Is it someone over the age of 18?
Is it someone who has a USMS card?
Is it someone who swims in 1 meet their whole life and sets all kinds of records?
Is it someone who is over the age of 35?

My OPINION is that a Masters Swimmer is someone who trains and competes, if they so choose, in USMS but has a life with job, family, etc. They swim for fun, conditioning and good old fashioned competition.

Sure, but there are plenty of masters swimmers in other countries (ie not just USMS).

Sam Perry
May 10th, 2008, 08:00 PM
Sure, but there are plenty of masters swimmers in other countries (ie not just USMS).

Yes, sorry about that miss. I figured since we were on the USMS board I would discuss USMS.

Sam Perry
May 10th, 2008, 08:14 PM
One other thing, in the discussion board about the Senior Circuit meet that Ande started, Michelle Chow posted the following:

Darn! Conflicts in schedule.

My girls have a karate tournament, birthday party, Hurricane Harbor day, and Science Fair during TSC #3.

Last week of school is this TSC #4 but would have loved to swim 1 event and watch the meet. Alas, I am signed up for paper plates & napkins for the end of the year parties.

Ande, what happens in the year following Olympics - do the time standards get faster or slower? Do they tend to stairstep up or down?

Looking foward to more of "The World According to Ande" at our next meet! I am going to do some of the sprint sets you suggested. Sprinting has made a huge difference in my times this year so I want to refine and truly commit to the 4 x 50's and see what I can do next year!

This epitomizes what masters swimming is all about, and I can definitely relate. A website of a 20 something guy who PROBABLY has never stopped swimming since college talking about all of the records he has broken or would have broken is meaningless. Don't get me wrong, HE IS A FAST SWIMMER, but doesn't hold a candle to folks like Michelle, Ande, Josh, etc. and all of the outside pressures we all have to deal with.

Kevin Doak
May 10th, 2008, 08:40 PM
I appreciate the thoughtful post Frank made, I'll reserve my comments regarding the rest of the negative posts. I have great respect for all masters swimmers, I owe everything I'm doing now to USMS. I took 2 years off after college and started from nothing. The Masters program gave me my true life's passion back after I thought it was gone. After college I started my business and currently work more than 50 hours a week. I do my best to balance work and swimming just like the rest of you. Am I a true masters swimmer?... I know I am. Why? Because I have a real life, support myself and my hobbies, and love swimming more than anything.

I know having my own blog and posting my feelings opens me up to criticism. I've accepted this. Did I break a masters world record and it didn't count? Yes. Why? Because I'm a masters swimmer who achieved a 57.00 in the wrong meet. The only reason I'm involved in USA swimming is because I'm trying to live my dream of participating in the trials this year. If you have a problem with this, then change the rule to all non-sanctioned times can count toward a masters record... not just the world records.

I find this time in my swimming career exciting because I train myself and I've only done 3 long course meets in my life to get my trials cut. I'm not a fantastic swimmer, I'm somebody who loves swimming. I know exactly where I stand and what a 57.00 ranks among the best of the best, and I'm still proud.

Again, thank you Skip for the post, and thanks to anybody who chooses to support a fellow Masters swimmer. I've often commented on the best thing about masters swimming is that we all support each other, people who know me, understand I uplift anybody around me at a meet. I hope to see some of you in CA, --Kevin

Chris Stevenson
May 10th, 2008, 09:02 PM
change the rule to all non-sanctioned times can count toward a masters record... not just the world records.

Kevin,

USA-S meets do count towards USMS records, it is FINA that has the rule about non-sanctioned meets. I could argue either side of why this is so, but I don't believe it is really that big a deal. I'm sure you will do a similar time if/when you rest for a masters LCM meet. If it doesn't happen soon, then hopefully you have many years ahead of you competing in masters meets.

Best of luck to you at Trials.

FlyQueen
May 10th, 2008, 09:02 PM
Hey Kevin! We met during the TYR Grand Prix. I had no idea you were going for an OT cut. I know you had some great times during the three TYR meets. I wish you the best of luck in Omaha and hope you continue swimming masters. Hopefully you'll do the TYR grand prix again this year!

knelson
May 10th, 2008, 10:09 PM
All the posts saying "he's not really that good" are a little weak, IMO. Yes, there are people who can beat him, but as far as I can tell he is the fastest 100 backstroker who is a current masters swimmer. That's pretty good. How many current masters swimmers have made Trials cuts? Not many.

I just looked at the rankings on the FINA site and a 57.00 would have ranked him 141st in the world last year.

LindsayNB
May 10th, 2008, 10:31 PM
I think the Masters Swimming tent is big enough for 27 year olds pursuing their passion for swimming and for forty-something parents with birthday parties to attend. I think it's probably a net benefit to have an enthusiastic talented swimmer practicing and competing among us, chances are that once trials are over some of that passion will go into enriching the masters scene in one way or another.

Besides, we all know the real question that needs to be answered: what suit was he wearing when he did that 57.00?:lmao:

Brian Stack
May 10th, 2008, 10:57 PM
All the posts saying "he's not really that good" are a little weak, IMO. Yes, there are people who can beat him, but as far as I can tell he is the fastest 100 backstroker who is a current masters swimmer. That's pretty good. How many current masters swimmers have made Trials cuts? Not many.

I just looked at the rankings on the FINA site and a 57.00 would have ranked him 141st in the world last year.

I'm with Kirk. All I know is that when word gets out that a USMS swimmer has/ or is close to achieving a trials cut a little ripple goes through the competitive masters who know what it takes to get to that point. I also suspect that a lot of admiration and respect goes out when Dennis Baker or Kevin makes a cut and swims at trials. You just know that a lot of folks in the stands are talking about Masters Swimming, maybe for the first time.
Good Luck in Omaha Kevin.

Sam Perry
May 11th, 2008, 03:04 AM
All the posts saying "he's not really that good"

Who has said that?

Steve
May 11th, 2008, 09:07 AM
Kevin, well said. Best of luck, we're pulling for you.

Frank Thompson
May 11th, 2008, 09:12 AM
Who has said that?

Ehoch:

Good for him, but the whole "I broke a World Record" story that did not count" must be a joke. I am too lazy to check out all the 25-29 swimmers in the world, but I am sure there is somebody in that age-group going a 54+ in the 100 Back. Not sure where he is training - but honestly, I barely consider myself a good Masters swimmer and I am turning 40 this year.

Jazz Hands:

Randall Bal went 53.66 last year. Aaron Peirsol is going to turn 25 before the Olympics. This is why Masters records in the lower age groups aren't very meaningful.

Sam Perry:

A website of a 20 something guy who PROBABLY has never stopped swimming since college talking about all of the records he has broken or would have broken is meaningless. Don't get me wrong, HE IS A FAST SWIMMER, but doesn't hold a candle to folks like Michelle, Ande, Josh, etc. and all of the outside pressures we all have to deal with.

We could argue about if these comments are saying he is "Not really that good." However, these are very negative comments about a masters swimmer that is swimming in the Olympic Trials and can make all of us proud in USMS.

Kevin is one of the most motivated swimmers I have ever seen and I will give you an example of this motivation and commitment. Last fall, Kevin participated in the TYR Grand Prix Series that Mark Gill organizes for the Great Lakes Zone. Meets were held in Indy, Louisville, and Chicago. Kevin works a second job as a DJ doing weddings, graduations, and parties on the weekend. On the weekend of the second Grand Prix meet in Louisville, he had to work until 1:00 AM and then got in his car and drove 6 hours to Louisville so he could swim and attemp to break the World Records in the 50 and 100 Back at the meet Sunday morning. After the meet was over he got back on the road and drove 6 hours. How many swimmers are this moitivated to swim in a masters meet?

When the 3 meet series was over he set 5 USMS National Records but came up short by .10 on his last attemp in the 50 Back. Everyone at the meet was impressed with his efforts on trying to improve his times with each swim he attended. Since the start of 2008, he has set 2 USMS National Records in the 50 Yard Back and they have since been broken. He went :23.06 and broke the record of :23.09 set back in 2000.

On April 11, Matthew Marshall went :23.03 and broke Kevin's record. At the Michigan Masters State Meet he got the record back with a :23.01 but then last weekend William Liscinky went :22.89 and he lost it again. He has a great attitude because he says next year he will work harder and try to get the record back. He has true committment to USMS and you will definately see him in future years.

Kevin has been a USMS All American for the last 3 years and this year was selected as a USMS Pool All Star in the 25-29 age group. He recieved the Lawrence Award from Michigan Masters for his Outstanding Performances in 2007.

Jazz Hands
May 11th, 2008, 09:53 AM
I didn't say Kevin is not fast. I've never even done a 57.0 in freestyle, so I have to respect that, especially because he is a fellow self-trained swimmer.

I do think there's a reason FINA only allows swims from Masters meets to count for Masters world records. Otherwise, anyone could register as a Master and then just go around breaking world records without even showing up. Obviously Kevin is not just "anyone" in that sense. He's part of the Masters community. But there's no simple test of whether someone is a true Masters swimmer or just a ringer, except that if someone actually swims a time at a Masters meet, that time reflects the amount of preparation they put into Masters swimming.

Sam Perry
May 11th, 2008, 10:34 AM
Skip,

While I appreciate all of your swimming knowlege (and I am not being sarcastic), it is truly amazing. Posting 3 quotes from Hoch, JH, and myself, I still see nothing stating:

"He's really not that good"

as was accused by Kirk are still unfounded. I still don't see anywhere that was said. No one had directly attacked Kevin, if you look at my posts I even said 57.00 was fast (which it is). This is just another example (as there are many other occasions on this board) that when someone tries to make a point that others on here don't like and people think it is some personal attack. I don't know Kevin, can't speak for JH or Hoch, so how could it be personal like:

He's really not that good

That is not a very intelligent statement because :57.00 is that good.

Kevin, for the record, I am glad you are here and hope to see you swim that fast some time, as I know it is impressive. I applaud you for achieving a goal like making the Olympic Trials and wish you all the best in Omaha. I hope you understand it is not a personal thing. I (and others) were just trying to ask the question if that is a true representation of the best MASTERS SWIMMER in the age group. Or are there others close to your age (or older for that matter) that are quicker.

Sam Perry
May 11th, 2008, 10:51 AM
I also suspect that a lot of admiration and respect goes out when Dennis Baker or Kevin makes a cut and swims at trials.

Is this a serious comparison? A mid 40s swimmer to a 27 year old? Pretty weak argument there.

Sam Perry
May 11th, 2008, 10:55 AM
I think the Masters Swimming tent is big enough for 27 year olds pursuing their passion for swimming and for forty-something parents with birthday parties to attend. I think it's probably a net benefit to have an enthusiastic talented swimmer practicing and competing among us, chances are that once trials are over some of that passion will go into enriching the masters scene in one way or another.


Never said he wasn't welcome (the tent is not big enough I think was your statement to be exact) nor did JH or Hoch. They just question if that represents the best Masters Swimmer in that age group, and I question if he is a true representation of what Masters Swimming is about. The same issues were brought up about Dara Torres which I think is a legitimate question. (And no, this is not an implication that I think she is doping because I don't) Do you know if he does train with a Masters Team for a fact? I don't know, that is why I ask that question.

Brian Stack
May 11th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Is this a serious comparison? A mid 40s swimmer to a 27 year old? Pretty weak argument there.
Sam, it's obviously not a comparison. Seems like your the one with the weak point here. Read the post fer cryin' out loud. I was saying that the Masters community is proud of both Dennis Baker AND Kevin.

ehoch
May 11th, 2008, 02:14 PM
Anybody making US Olympic Trials is a great swimmer. There is no question about that. But I have a major problem with somebody complaining about not getting a record for his age group when there are probably 100 people in the same age group that have done a faster time in the past.

When I look at the World Records for Masters, I look at Richard Abrahams records and know that he is the fastest 60 year old in the world. Nobody can say that about Kevin. So even, if Kevin swims breaks the record this season at a Masters meet, I know (and he knows) that the current World record holder in 100 Back is in the same age group.

Maui Mike
May 11th, 2008, 02:18 PM
How's it work with age group swimming these days? If I remember correctly (a big "If" there), when I was a kid, if an age grouper broke a NAG record in a senior meet, it wasn't counted as a NAG record.

Sam Perry
May 11th, 2008, 02:23 PM
Sam, it's obviously not a comparison. Seems like your the one with the weak point here. Read the post fer cryin' out loud. I was saying that the Masters community is proud of both Dennis Baker AND Kevin.

Ok, Brian you win. We are proud of all of our recordbreakers even if they didn't break a record according to FINA rules and there are other people the same age that are faster. They have a USMS card, swam in a few meets (if that many) and so they are record breakers. I also guess that Baker is not nearly as good as Doak since he hasn't made trials cuts yet according to the logic here.

I am with you Hoch, what those folks are doing is amazing. Good thing they have a USMS card, otherwise what they are doing doesn't nearly matter as much as someone who does.

Chris Stevenson
May 11th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Are accolades really such a scarce resource, that we have to dole them out so carefully? All these people are worthy of praise, as are many who do not ever break records.

Personally, the swimmers I admire the most are the 70-year-olds who can still do 200 fly or a 400IM, events that intimidate many who are half their age.

In fact, just to get a sense for what's involved, I just looked up the USMS record in 200 LCM fly for the 75-79 age group: 3:43.56. How many people reading this can swim fly for almost 4 minutes in a 50m pool? Now imagine doing it at 75 years of age. That's MY long-term goal in swimming masters, to be able to do something like that in 30 years. If I can do it, I promise you I won't give a fig about whether I break the record or not.

Or how about swimmers who take up the sport at age 40 and compete in a meet for the first time. Lifelong swimmers (myself included) don't tend to appreciate how intimidating the sport can be to neophytes.

Honestly, enough about records, comparisons, or what defines a "true" masters swimmer (and Kevin certainly qualifies in my book). There is always someone faster: if not now, then eventually. That doesn't cheapen the accomplishments of anyone.

scyfreestyler
May 11th, 2008, 04:47 PM
Are accolades really such a scarce resource, that we have to dole them out so carefully? All these people are worthy of praise, as are many who do not ever break records.

Personally, the swimmers I admire the most are the 70-year-olds who can still do 200 fly or a 400IM, events that intimidate many who are half their age.

In fact, just to get a sense for what's involved, I just looked up the USMS record in 200 LCM fly for the 75-79 age group: 3:43.56. How many people reading this can swim fly for almost 4 minutes in a 50m pool? Now imagine doing it at 75 years of age. That's MY long-term goal in swimming masters, to be able to do something like that in 30 years. If I can do it, I promise you I won't give a fig about whether I break the record or not.

Or how about swimmers who take up the sport at age 40 and compete in a meet for the first time. Lifelong swimmers (myself included) don't tend to appreciate how intimidating the sport can be to neophytes.

Honestly, enough about records, comparisons, or what defines a "true" masters swimmer (and Kevin certainly qualifies in my book). There is always someone faster: if not now, then eventually. That doesn't cheapen the accomplishments of anyone.


Excellent way to end a thread such as this one.

Loffe
May 11th, 2008, 04:58 PM
This is an interesting discussion. In Sweden, Masters Swimming is considered a different sport than "regular" swimming. So to be able to compete in both Masters competitions and normal ones you have to have two different licenses, and I also swim for two different clubs.

But.. if I sometimes do Masters swimming and sometimes "normal" swimming, am I then a Masters swimmer or a normal swimmer? For me it is simple: I am a Masters Swimmer at Masters meets and a regular swimmer at other meets. We can never set a Masters Record in any regular meet, because if so all "normal" swimmers could claim to also set MAster records in normal meets, even if they never participate in a MAsters Meet.

Some years ago I swam the European Masters Championship. A few weeks earlier UK had the trial for the World Championship. Mark Foster missed the trial, so a bit disappoited he insted he choose to swim the Masters for once. Went 22.7 LCM in the 50 free. Guess if he won...

I have done many better times in normal meets than in Masters Meets. Maybe due to competition, maybe due to pools. But they are and will not considered Master times and I try not to bother about that... for me it is a different thing.

Ps. Kevin go ahead and make the same time at a Masters Meet and then there will be no discussion. I am sure you can and will soon. 57:00 is very good!! Good luck!

Kevin Doak
May 11th, 2008, 08:09 PM
I can see there is really no good compromise here, if somebody in the 25-29 age bracket in the Mens 100m Back breaks the FINA masters world record it's "meaningless" to those on this forum because there are people like Piersol who are faster. Where is the line drawn? When do masters world records start being respected? Maybe it's 40-44, because then there's no USA-S swimmers left. Of course that only works on the mens side because Dara negates that theory. This topic has changed how I see FINA masters world records. I used to feel excited when I broke a record because I felt like "a record is a record". Getting a record is achieving something nobody else has achieved. All I said was that I went faster than the FINA world record for 25-29. I never claimed I got the record.

Here is the exact quote from my website:

"As it turns out my 100 Back LCM time of 57.00 is faster than the FINA Masters 25-29 World Record time but it doesn't count because it was performed under a USA-S sanctioned meet, therefore it only counts as a Masters American Record."

ehoch, I don't really feel as though I was "complaining" as you so put it. Merely stating a fact. I'm sorry it was a "major problem". If it matters, I never even did the research. This fact was told to me by other masters swimmers who had followed my progress in the last 20 masters meets I've been to and were excited for me to swim a similar time in a masters sanctioned meet... it all goes back to why I'm proud to be in an organization that supports each other. Thank you to those who posted such nice comments, I look forward to representing USMS at the trials along with the other masters swimmers competing :)

knelson
May 11th, 2008, 08:17 PM
"He's really not that good"

as was accused by Kirk are still unfounded. I still don't see anywhere that was said.

OK, no one said that exactly, that was just the general tenor of some of the posts I read, IMO. For example Ande said "there's plenty of 25 - 29 year olds who obliterate the backstroke times he's done." A true statement, but isn't it awfully close to saying "he's not really that good?"

lefty
May 11th, 2008, 09:24 PM
this thread is sad. Why look for the oppurtunity to take someone down? The typical reason is that you need more people to be at your level.

That Guy
May 11th, 2008, 10:01 PM
Great job Kevin! Swim fast at Trials!

Sam Perry
May 11th, 2008, 10:05 PM
this thread is sad. Why look for the oppurtunity to take someone down? The typical reason is that you need more people to be at your level.

Who is taking whom down? Seems like a statement like "at your level" is a somewhat of a take down. Have you seen Hoch's level Not too many people could go to his level if they tried.

No one on here came here to take someone down. Again, I reiterate what makes no sense to me on these boards is that when someone disagrees with an opinion, others think it is some personal attack or an attempt to "take someone down".

Nothing was ever personal on this discussion until you and others implied it. I am done, I am sorry for making the thread sad.

The Fortress
May 12th, 2008, 12:52 AM
Are accolades really such a scarce resource, that we have to dole them out so carefully? All these people are worthy of praise, as are many who do not ever break records.

Personally, the swimmers I admire the most are the 70-year-olds who can still do 200 fly or a 400IM, events that intimidate many who are half their age.

In fact, just to get a sense for what's involved, I just looked up the USMS record in 200 LCM fly for the 75-79 age group: 3:43.56. How many people reading this can swim fly for almost 4 minutes in a 50m pool? Now imagine doing it at 75 years of age. That's MY long-term goal in swimming masters, to be able to do something like that in 30 years. If I can do it, I promise you I won't give a fig about whether I break the record or not.

Or how about swimmers who take up the sport at age 40 and compete in a meet for the first time. Lifelong swimmers (myself included) don't tend to appreciate how intimidating the sport can be to neophytes.

Honestly, enough about records, comparisons, or what defines a "true" masters swimmer (and Kevin certainly qualifies in my book). There is always someone faster: if not now, then eventually. That doesn't cheapen the accomplishments of anyone.

Amen!

It's slightly off-putting and elitist when someone ranked #1 in the world declares himself or herself "not fast," thereby implicitly insulting 99.9% of masters swimmers, and then implies an official "masters" record (or possibly any masters record under age 60) could be unworthy or somehow tainted because a USS swimmer is faster. So what? We're masters. (I didn't say "It's only masters" because we have people of incredible dedication.) Take a PR lesson from speedsters Chris or (S)he-Beast or others and applaud all the fine individual accomplishments of our masters swimmers of all ages and speeds.

Good luck Kevin!

SwimStud
May 12th, 2008, 09:16 AM
Good luck to anyone swimming fast enough to trial!

As for what makes a masters swimmer...anyone that gets in the water for health, fun or competition--motivation matters not, participation does.

Denigrating (or passing judegement) on those faster or slower than oneself is truely not what masters is about.

I may be slower than many of the posters here but folks tell me how fast I am in the pool (I then explain just exactly how fast I am compared to the top USMS swimmers). Speed is relative...and somewhat meaningless beyond your direct peer group.

Paul Smith
May 12th, 2008, 11:58 AM
I think our friend from Sweden summed up how I view the distinction between USMS & USS swimming. FINA has drawn a line saying that worlds records for masters need to be set in masters meets...and I think that is 100% fair.

I also think Hoch's point about the time I think is being taken a little out of context...if we really want to merge USMS & USS along with all the other International swim federations and then start tracking all those times and counting as USMS/FINA masters world records then I think it takes away from what I feel is the spirit of masters.

For all of us USMS folks no one except parents at USS meets cares if old farts show up and (in my case) embarrass themselves or (in John's case) their kids. If you care about your rankings/records in USMS swim/support USMS, if you care about your rankings in USS swim/support USS...or both...but IMHO its oil and water to mix.

Kevin, go forth and kick ass at trials...(hope you wear some USMS gear) and feel free to come hang with us USMS folks at some of the regional meets this fall that have open seeding...I think you'll find plenty of competition!

jim clemmons
May 12th, 2008, 07:15 PM
Someone once said:

"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

:2cents:

Kevin Doak
May 12th, 2008, 11:27 PM
Thank you everybody, and back on topic:

Who is actually attending or swimming this weekend at the Santa Clara Invite? I would enjoy meeting some of you while I'm in CA :)

Paul Smith
May 13th, 2008, 09:14 AM
Thank you everybody, and back on topic:

Who is actually attending or swimming this weekend at the Santa Clara Invite? I would enjoy meeting some of you while I'm in CA :)


Kevin...just a quick reminder...this is the USMS forum not the USS forum...so most everyone here will be eating, playing golf, watching sports, playing with their kids or working out while the youngsters are having at it in Santa Clara!

Mark your calender for August 14-17 in Portland if you want to meet the senior citizens.

Kevin Doak
May 13th, 2008, 09:24 AM
Kevin...just a quick reminder...this is the USMS forum not the USS forum...so most everyone here will be eating, playing golf, watching sports, playing with their kids or working out while the youngsters are having at it in Santa Clara!

Mark your calender for August 14-17 in Portland if you want to meet the senior citizens.

Thanks for letting me know what forum I'm on, any idea why this topic was started if it has no relevance to "most everyone here"?

scyfreestyler
May 13th, 2008, 10:07 AM
I've been to this meet a few times as a spectator. My 8 year old enjoys getting autographs from Lochte and Phelps. Perhaps today I will go online and order some tickets.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/13895827.jpg

aquageek
May 13th, 2008, 10:22 AM
Denigrating (or passing judegement) on those faster or slower than oneself is truely not what masters is about.

Since when? That's what Master's is solely about. Matter of fact, when I saddle up the cruiser and head to N Va to pummel you and Fort (well, you anyway), I'll have you crying like the little girlie bra wearing man that you are.

Course, I might also be hiding under the bleachers avoiding the beating the Smiths allege they will give me. But, I'm not afraid of those two octogenarians.

Kevin - congrats and good luck.

The Fortress
May 13th, 2008, 10:32 AM
Since when? That's what Master's is solely about. Matter of fact, when I saddle up the cruiser and head to N Va to pummel you and Fort (well, you anyway), I'll have you crying like the little girlie bra wearing man that you are.

Course, I might also be hiding under the bleachers avoiding the beating the Smiths allege they will give me. But, I'm not afraid of those two octogenarians.

Kevin - congrats and good luck.

You don't have to worry about evilsmith. I have bigger guns than that tatooed cheatin' beanpole.

Paul Smith
May 13th, 2008, 10:50 AM
Thanks for letting me know what forum I'm on, any idea why this topic was started if it has no relevance to "most everyone here"?


My pleasure Kevin.

And in case you missed it there are QT times for this meet that 90% of the swimmers in masters wouldn't make...so in general threads like this get started because were fans...and occasionally get hijacked like this one has to your personal website.....very nice one by the way.

To date your the second "masters swimmer" not only to have a website (that I'm aware of) but to make Trials cut. SVDL will be joing you there not with a website, not her style), hopefully Baker & Commings make cuts over the next few weeks (we all HOPE jeff will start his own site)....not sure if Paul is still trying but he beat you to the website thing years ago: www.paulcarterswims.com

TheGoodSmith
May 13th, 2008, 11:13 AM
"........that tatooed cheatin' beanpole"

My Dara protein powder supplements are apparently not working.


John Smith

SwimStud
May 13th, 2008, 11:21 AM
Since when? That's what Master's is solely about. Matter of fact, when I saddle up the cruiser and head to N Va to pummel you and Fort (well, you anyway), I'll have you crying like the little girlie bra wearing man that you are.


You pick an event and I'll pick one...
:weightlifter:

aquageek
May 13th, 2008, 11:47 AM
You may choose from any event in the three recognized strokes. Frog stroke is still not official so it is excluded.

SwimStud
May 13th, 2008, 12:03 PM
You may choose from any event in the three recognized strokes. Frog stroke is still not official so it is excluded.

*cluck* *cluck*

Loffe
May 13th, 2008, 12:14 PM
What does it take to make the Trials in the US? Where can you find these times? Would be interesting to compare..

knelson
May 13th, 2008, 12:19 PM
US Olympic Trials cuts: http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/_Rainbow/Documents/64e383f6-3282-4090-bcd2-e58c54c5068f/08TrialsCuts.pdf

ALM
May 13th, 2008, 12:19 PM
What does it take to make the Trials in the US? Where can you find these times? Would be interesting to compare..

Ande just posted them in this thread:
http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=10780

scyfreestyler
May 13th, 2008, 12:22 PM
Just got tickets for Sunday. See you there Kevin.

Loffe
May 13th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Thanks! Pretty hard times there..

knelson
May 13th, 2008, 12:43 PM
The times are very tough and the scary thing is there are typically somewhere around 100 swimmers who have made the cuts in each event!

pwolf66
May 13th, 2008, 12:44 PM
Geek's coming to town? When did I miss this? N. Va? What meet is that? Didn't think there were any synchronized swimming competitions in the area.

Paul

pwolf66
May 13th, 2008, 12:47 PM
The times are very tough and the scary thing is there are typically somewhere around 100 swimmers who have made the cuts in each event!

Check out the 12yo girl from New York in the 100 Free. Lia Neal. I've been tracking her since she was 9. She is smoking fast. I just hope that she doesn't burn out.

Paul

knelson
May 13th, 2008, 01:14 PM
I know. Lia Neal is incredible. I've accepted the fact I can get "beat by a girl," but a 12 year old girl? That hurts!

chowmi
May 13th, 2008, 05:07 PM
Is she the one who swims at Asphalt Green and was featured in the NY TImes a few weeks ago?

I love the NY Times; they have swimming related articles about every month, and great build up stories for the Olympics!! (and the most interesting people are featured in the obituaries).

pwolf66
May 13th, 2008, 06:16 PM
Yes, that's her.

Paul

Kevin Doak
May 13th, 2008, 08:21 PM
I must add this video because it seems to embody the energy of this thread

Is that Paul Smith in the background cheering? (http://kevindoak.com/video/2008_usms_state/cheering.html)

jim clemmons
May 13th, 2008, 08:46 PM
Thanks for letting me know what forum I'm on, any idea why this topic was started if it has no relevance to "most everyone here"?

Heck Kevin, most of are old enough we've already forgotten what started this whole thing.:doh: Some of us have even forgotten what our point was to begin with.

Just go and swim well and remember it's going to be HOT this week and weekend so plan accordingly.

Paul Smith
May 13th, 2008, 08:56 PM
I must add this video because it seems to embody the energy of this thread

Is that Paul Smith in the background cheering? (http://kevindoak.com/video/2008_usms_state/cheering.html)


That was me!!!

I was doing a nice little dance after seeing you flexing on the home page of your website!

The big question, are you a masters swimmer who can't find enough challenges in masters meets so you venture into the USS arena....or a USS swimmer who's not good enough to get recognition in that world so you register with USMS and tag a few records (and complain when you don't get some from non-sanctoned meets) here to pump up the site content?

Kevin Doak
May 13th, 2008, 09:10 PM
I'd love to think that I'm pumping up the site content! Thanks!

TheGoodSmith
May 14th, 2008, 12:30 PM
There's plenty of 25 - 29 year olds who obliterate the backstroke times he's done, they just don't swim masters

let's see how he does 20 years from now

ehoch you're an awesome masters swimmer


I don't really get his web site. I mean what is the goal here.... Masters World Record Holder or the real thing..... i.e. USA Swimming and/or Trials?


John Smith

ehoch
May 14th, 2008, 05:49 PM
"Lately I've been swimming about 4 hours a day in addition to dryland (plyometrics) and weight training, so around 5-6 hours a day total. I swim approximately 7,000-10,000 Long Course Meters a day, 6-7 days a week."

How many Masters swimmers train like this ?

My rule of thumb for Masters swimming is 5 years or 50 lbs -- 5 years since swimming USS meets or gaining 50 pounds -- or both ...

Chris Stevenson
May 14th, 2008, 06:17 PM
How many Masters swimmers train like this ?

Dennis Baker (http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/13572.asp), maybe?

Erik, what's the big deal? (Is it the web site?) Kevin's young and can do this now; once he gets a family, things will change obviously.

I know a lot of (amateur) triathletes who are similarly obsessed...maybe not 6-7 hours a day but 3-4 hours a day is not at all unusual for iron man training. I know a guy who is 61 who does this (and he's an amazing athlete, routinely beating gifted athletes who are 20 years younger).

Good job at nationals, by the way, not looking forward to welcoming you to the 40-44 age group!

Kevin Doak
May 14th, 2008, 06:49 PM
You guys crack me up. You're not losing sleep over this are you? Let me see if I can recap:

You have somebody (me) who is openly proud to be part of USMS, and frequently credits as the reason for their moderate success.
I implied that the fact that I couldn't get a world record at a USA meet was a silly rule (oh no!).
I have a website to keep my friends and family informed on my progress of a sport I love, which Skip, who is my friend linked you to in this forum.

If that sums it up, then I don't really understand the issue.

scyfreestyler
May 14th, 2008, 06:57 PM
Apparently you train too much and swim too fast to be a member of USMS. :dunno:

Paul Smith
May 14th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Kevin, spend some more time around this site and any of us and you'll quickly figure out that everything is fair game and ANY sign of an inflated ego is grounds for an immediate all out assault...it's not meant to be personal but guess I can see how you may take it as such.

But in the spirit of this being masters, none (most) of us don't take any of it home...except for Geek because we keep reminding him of how much his piece of crap tri-bike with the trainer wheels and porn seat cost...but doesn't seem to help him ride any faster.

ehoch
May 14th, 2008, 07:28 PM
For me it's the amazing shot of Kevin's back muscles that I just can not get out of my mind. Plus I am really disappointed that we don't have more Masters swimmers with their own website. Of course, I think belly shots and pictures would be a lot more telling in terms of training and conditioning.

By the way - Paul Carter and Michael Ross are entered at Santa Clara -- the meet is just silly fast. 25 people listed under 50 seconds ....

The Fortress
May 14th, 2008, 09:22 PM
My rule of thumb for Masters swimming is 5 years or 50 lbs -- 5 years since swimming USS meets or gaining 50 pounds -- or both ...

Ew. Gross. I know you're joking, but that doesn't describe many masters swimmers I know. I think you can set the bar a little higher for us masters! Besides, as you know, some of us occasionally compete in USS meets even though we are of an unseemly age.

Kevin, I glanced at your blog, http://www.kevindoak.com/blog.html. I'm a supporter, but your comments are dead wrong. There are plenty of masters swimmers in their 20s competing and welcome at all meets. Some of them are scary fast. No one is "unwelcome" if they are "faster than average." Huh? It's comments like those (and the promo back shot) that will keep Tall Paul on your case! In addition, many masters swimmers are either single or do not have families. Families are not a requirement for being a masters swimmer; they just tend to make it more difficult and stressful to train and compete often. And we all tend to go gaga over masters who succeed despite the demands on their time.

Don't take things so seriously. There's a lot of smack talk and banter on the forum.

tjburk
May 14th, 2008, 09:34 PM
And just remember one thing........Those of you that think you know everything always just piss off those of us that do!!!!!:lmao::lmao:

ande
May 15th, 2008, 06:52 AM
2008 International Invitational Toyota Grand Prix Swim Meet
May 15 - 18, 2008
George Haines International Swim Center
Santa Clara, California

Real Time Results (http://competitive.santaclaraswimclub.org/Meets/2008International/Results/index.htm)

psyche sheet (http://competitive.santaclaraswimclub.org/Meets/2008International/Psych.pdf)

scyfreestyler
May 15th, 2008, 09:59 AM
I see Kevin seeded 21 out of 85 swimmers. Very nice. Unfortunately, it does not look like Dara Torres will be swimming this meet.

pwolf66
May 15th, 2008, 10:02 AM
WOW


41 Neal, Lia M 13 AGUA-MR 56.87


Would love to see her swim.

Paul

TheGoodSmith
May 15th, 2008, 10:22 AM
Actually, Missy Franklin from Colorado just turned 13 last week. She is the youngest participant at the Trials.

pwolf66
May 15th, 2008, 10:25 AM
I know, I've been keeping an eye on her also but I've been tracking Lia since she was 8. Just an amazing talent that I hope doesn't burn out or fade as she matures.

Paul

TheGoodSmith
May 15th, 2008, 10:28 AM
I believe they will be doing an interview piece on Susan and Missy for the Trials. Both from Colorado.... the youngest and the oldest in the pool.

ande
May 15th, 2008, 10:47 AM
Torres is entered in the A&M meet
http://www.usms.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=984&d=1210649623

http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10774



I see Kevin seeded 21 out of 85 swimmers. Very nice. Unfortunately, it does not look like Dara Torres will be swimming this meet.

aquageek
May 15th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Torres is entered in the A&M meet
http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10774

Ande - why would she enter the A&M meet versus the Santa Clara one? Isn't the Santa Clara a traditionally strong meet with more top level talent?

ande
May 15th, 2008, 10:57 AM
read the psyche sheet (http://www.usms.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=984&d=1210649623)
A&M is a fast meet


Ande - why would she enter the A&M meet versus the Santa Clara one? Isn't the Santa Clara a traditionally strong meet with more top level talent?

chowmi
May 15th, 2008, 11:04 AM
Steve Wood is swimming at A&M!!! Go Steve Go!!!

So is Martina. My hero.

aquageek
May 15th, 2008, 11:12 AM
read the psyche sheet (http://www.usms.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=984&d=1210649623)
A&M is a fast meet

That wasn't my question. No doubt it's a fast meet but is the top level talent split nicely between the two meets?

Smiths - any input?

ande
May 15th, 2008, 11:15 AM
at A&M
Tyler (http://www.usms.org/comp/tt/toptenind.php?SwimmerID=02RA9) . Blessing (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meetsearch.php?c=120888&MeetID=20080501SCNATSY)
is swimming the 100 fly on Saturday
(you get different links when you click on Tyler or Blessing) and

Sean Foley (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meetsearch.php?c=122089&MeetID=20080501SCNATSY) is swimming the 50 free going for OT Cuts
he hasn't been training much yet managed to go 20.2 at Nats in the 50 free

I'm curious to see how Steve Wood (http://www.usms.org/comp/tt/toptenind.php?SwimmerID=02G3T) swims
last time I saw him he looked great and was swimming very fast

TheGoodSmith
May 15th, 2008, 04:53 PM
The A&M pool is very fast and a closer plane flight for Dara.

KeithM
May 15th, 2008, 04:59 PM
WOW


41 Neal, Lia M 13 AGUA-MR 56.87


Would love to see her swim.

Paul

The amazing part of it is she swam it when she was 12.

aquageek
May 15th, 2008, 05:03 PM
The A&M pool is very fast and a closer plane flight for Dara.

Where are you when I actually need a conspiracy theory?

hofffam
May 15th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Look at the psych sheet for the A&M meet. Some very fast people swimming. Maybe not quite as fast as Santa Clara but many past Olympians and contenders are swimming.

Ian Crocker, Neil Walker, Matt McGinnis, Eric Shanteau, Scott Spann, etc.

18 women in the 100 free with Trials cuts. Dara of course.

ande
May 16th, 2008, 10:16 AM
Vendt blazing 1500, Klueh solid
they'll swim it again on sunday

Event 2 Men 1500 LC Meter Freestyle
================================================== ================
World: 14:34.56 7/29/2001 Grant Hackett, AUS
American: 14:45.29 8/21/2004 Larsen Jensen, USA
U.S. Open: 14:47.59 2/17/2008 Erik Vendt, Club Wolverine
Meet: M 15:11.80 5/23/2004 Erik Vendt, TROJ
Name Age Team Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Vendt, Erik K 27 Club Wolverine-M 14:47.59 14:54.89M
27.48 57.08 (29.60)
1:26.10 (29.02) 1:56.42 (30.32)
2:26.15 (29.73) 2:55.97 (29.82)
3:25.72 (29.75) 3:55.59 (29.87)
4:25.45 (29.86) 4:55.42 (29.97)
5:25.27 (29.85) 5:55.30 (30.03)
6:25.19 (29.89) 6:55.22 (30.03)
7:25.13 (29.91) 7:54.98 (29.85)
8:24.82 (29.84) 8:54.52 (29.70)
9:24.33 (29.81) 9:54.56 (30.23)
10:24.57 (30.01) 10:54.78 (30.21)
11:24.76 (29.98) 11:55.03 (30.27)
12:25.18 (30.15) 12:55.67 (30.49)
13:26.01 (30.34) 13:56.55 (30.54)
14:26.72 (30.17) 14:54.89 (28.17)

2 Klueh, Michael P 21 Longhorn Aquatic 15:08.28 15:18.75
27.18 56.90 (29.72)
1:27.00 (30.10) 1:57.02 (30.02)
2:27.43 (30.41) 2:58.01 (30.58)
3:28.74 (30.73) 3:59.53 (30.79)
4:30.53 (31.00) 5:01.64 (31.11)
5:32.47 (30.83) 6:03.63 (31.16)
6:34.49 (30.86) 7:05.58 (31.09)
7:36.74 (31.16) 8:07.69 (30.95)
8:38.70 (31.01) 9:09.80 (31.10)
9:40.80 (31.00) 10:11.95 (31.15)
10:42.88 (30.93) 11:13.96 (31.08)
11:45.17 (31.21) 12:16.03 (30.86)
12:46.70 (30.67) 13:17.56 (30.86)
13:48.26 (30.70) 14:18.97 (30.71)
14:49.37 (30.40) 15:18.75 (29.38)


decent 800's

Event 1 Women 800 LC Meter Freestyle
================================================== ================
World: 8:16.22 8/20/1989 Janet Evans, USA
American: 8:16.22 8/20/1989 Janet Evans, USA
U.S. Open: 8:17.12 3/22/1988 Janet Evans, Fullerton
Meet: M 8:26.87 6/25/2006 Hayley Peirsol, Club Wolverine
Name Age Team Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Ziegler, Kate M 19 The Fish-PV 8:18.52 8:30.29
29.72 1:01.02 (31.30)
1:32.74 (31.72) 2:04.35 (31.61)
2:36.28 (31.93) 3:08.20 (31.92)
3:40.64 (32.44) 4:12.68 (32.04)
4:45.01 (32.33) 5:16.97 (31.96)
5:49.49 (32.52) 6:22.05 (32.56)
6:54.79 (32.74) 7:27.53 (32.74)
8:00.44 (32.91) 8:30.29 (29.85)

2 Palmer, Kylie AUS 8:24.30 8:32.63
29.87 1:01.66 (31.79)
1:34.05 (32.39) 2:06.21 (32.16)
2:38.72 (32.51) 3:11.14 (32.42)
3:43.70 (32.56) 4:16.35 (32.65)
4:48.01 (31.66) 5:20.31 (32.30)
5:52.61 (32.30) 6:24.73 (32.12)
6:57.22 (32.49) 7:29.45 (32.23)
8:01.80 (32.35) 8:32.63 (30.83)

3 Anderson, Alyssa J 17 Sierra Marlins S 8:36.32 8:37.22
30.06 1:02.29 (32.23)
1:34.64 (32.35) 2:07.09 (32.45)
2:39.56 (32.47) 3:12.17 (32.61)
3:45.04 (32.87) 4:17.51 (32.47)
4:50.14 (32.63) 5:22.81 (32.67)
5:55.61 (32.80) 6:28.07 (32.46)
7:00.71 (32.64) 7:33.41 (32.70)
8:05.91 (32.50) 8:37.22 (31.31)

4 Brunemann, Emily A 21 Club Wolverine-M 8:37.77 8:37.24
30.19 1:02.50 (32.31)
1:34.95 (32.45) 2:07.45 (32.50)
2:39.92 (32.47) 3:12.34 (32.42)
3:44.83 (32.49) 4:17.29 (32.46)
4:49.65 (32.36) 5:22.31 (32.66)
5:54.67 (32.36) 6:27.31 (32.64)
7:00.06 (32.75) 7:32.71 (32.65)
8:05.32 (32.61) 8:37.24 (31.92)

5 Sandeno, Kaitlin S 25 Club Wolverine-M 8:37.02 8:37.92
30.25 1:02.45 (32.20)
1:34.80 (32.35) 2:07.22 (32.42)
2:39.80 (32.58) 3:12.29 (32.49)
3:44.90 (32.61) 4:17.49 (32.59)
4:49.96 (32.47) 5:22.54 (32.58)
5:55.13 (32.59) 6:27.62 (32.49)
7:00.21 (32.59) 7:32.84 (32.63)
8:05.59 (32.75) 8:37.92 (32.33)

6 Carroll, Katie M 23 Club Wolverine-M 8:42.36 8:40.69
30.49 1:02.97 (32.48)
1:35.46 (32.49) 2:08.18 (32.72)
2:40.94 (32.76) 3:13.59 (32.65)
3:46.36 (32.77) 4:19.30 (32.94)
4:51.89 (32.59) 5:24.43 (32.54)
5:57.03 (32.60) 6:29.93 (32.90)
7:02.66 (32.73) 7:35.68 (33.02)
8:07.58 (31.90) 8:40.69 (33.11)

7 Boyle, Lauren M 20 Una Cal-PC 8:54.35 8:42.34
30.51 1:03.34 (32.83)
1:36.41 (33.07) 2:09.19 (32.78)
2:42.47 (33.28) 3:15.17 (32.70)
3:48.09 (32.92) 4:20.81 (32.72)
4:53.93 (33.12) 5:26.71 (32.78)
5:59.79 (33.08) 6:32.38 (32.59)
7:05.47 (33.09) 7:37.90 (32.43)
8:10.66 (32.76) 8:42.34 (31.68)

8 Anderson, Haley D 16 Sierra Marlins S 8:47.28 8:42.43
30.51 1:03.05 (32.54)
1:35.81 (32.76) 2:08.25 (32.44)
2:41.07 (32.82) 3:14.12 (33.05)
3:47.34 (33.22) 4:20.32 (32.98)
4:53.70 (33.38) 5:26.57 (32.87)
5:59.96 (33.39) 6:33.16 (33.20)
7:05.90 (32.74) 7:39.04 (33.14)
8:11.33 (32.29) 8:42.43 (31.10)

9 Breed, Catherine E 15 UNAT-PC 8:49.51 8:42.55
30.34 1:02.86 (32.52)
1:35.76 (32.90) 2:08.71 (32.95)
2:41.48 (32.77) 3:14.70 (33.22)
3:47.64 (32.94) 4:20.70 (33.06)
4:53.40 (32.70) 5:26.32 (32.92)
5:59.61 (33.29) 6:32.81 (33.20)
7:05.65 (32.84) 7:39.27 (33.62)
8:02.35 (23.08) 8:42.55 (40.20)

aquageek
May 16th, 2008, 10:51 AM
This just reinforces to me how awesome Janet Evans was. I think possibly the greatest swimmer in US history.

knelson
May 16th, 2008, 11:00 AM
Great race for third in the women's 800. I see Kaitlin Sandeno ended up fifth. This got me wondering about Sandeno's chances at Trials. It's really hard to imagine her NOT making the team in an individual event, but I really can't imagine where she might sneak in.

pwolf66
May 16th, 2008, 11:34 AM
But that's also one of the great things about trials/finals. Who is gonna step it up in finals? Did Sandeno 'cruise'? Did Kate drop the hammer? Who swam the race conservatively? What changes will there be in the finals?

Paul

scyfreestyler
May 16th, 2008, 11:46 AM
Vendt has the luxury of swimming the 200 IM just before he swims the 1500 on Sunday.

Something to keep in mind is that this pool is outdoors and there were record setting high temperatures in the bay area yesterday. That has to have an effect on a swimmers performance...especially in the longer events.

blainesapprentice
May 16th, 2008, 11:55 AM
Well Sandeno was only a few hundreths off her seed time while Kate was like 12 seconds off her seed time if I read all that right...

Then again...that doesn't really mean anything....there still could certainly be huge changes in Finals.

I think that Janet Evans record is gonna be gone within the next few weeks though--if not during finals then most certainly at the olympic trials...Kate is only 2 seconds off of it with her seed time...


But that's also one of the great things about trials/finals. Who is gonna step it up in finals? Did Sandeno 'cruise'? Did Kate drop the hammer? Who swam the race conservatively? What changes will there be in the finals?

Paul

knelson
May 16th, 2008, 12:24 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot they were doing prelims/finals for the 800.

I wonder if Hoff will swim the 800 free at Trials? If she does there's a 99% chance the two U.S. swimmers at the Olympics will be Hoff and Ziegler in the 800 free. They will probably both be under the old world record, too.

I doubt Ziegler will swim a best time in the 800 at the Santa Clara meet, but it wouldn't shock me either. She swims amazingly well in-season.

scyfreestyler
May 16th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Interview with Vendt at Santa Clara...


http://www.flocasts.org/floswimming/coverage.php?c=273&id=14919

scyfreestyler
May 16th, 2008, 12:29 PM
And with Ziegler....


http://www.flocasts.org/floswimming/coverage.php?c=273&id=14920

ande
May 16th, 2008, 06:42 PM
this should be exciting tonight

Event 6 Men 200 LC Meter Freestyle
================================================== ================
World: 1:43.86 3/25/2007 Michael Phelps, USA
American: 1:43.86 3/25/2007 Michael Phelps, USA
U.S. Open: 1:45.50 7/14/2006 Michael Phelps, Club Wolverine
Meet: M 1:47.58 6/24/2005 Michael Phelps, Club Wolverine
Name Age Team Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Vanderkaay, Peter W 24 Club Wolverine-M 1:45.45 1:47.84
25.65 53.48 (27.83)
1:21.17 (27.69) 1:47.84 (26.67)
2 Berens, Ricky C 20 Longhorn Aquatic 1:48.42 1:48.52
25.82 53.53 (27.71)
1:21.49 (27.96) 1:48.52 (27.03)
3 Klueh, Michael P 21 Longhorn Aquatic 1:49.55 1:48.92
26.11 53.74 (27.63)
1:21.53 (27.79) 1:48.92 (27.39)
4 Okumura, Yoshihro 25 JPN-PC 1:47.90 1:49.01
26.20 54.45 (28.25)
1:21.86 (27.41) 1:49.01 (27.15)
5 Meichtry, Dominik J 23 California Aquat 1:48.49 1:49.42
26.08 53.67 (27.59)
1:21.50 (27.83) 1:49.42 (27.92)
6 Vendt, Erik K 27 Club Wolverine-M 1:49.08 1:49.93
26.66 54.64 (27.98)
1:22.56 (27.92) 1:49.93 (27.37)
7 Basson, Jean 20 University Of Ar 1:48.87 1:50.39
26.11 53.70 (27.59)
1:21.72 (28.02) 1:50.39 (28.67)
8 Matsumoto, Hisato 23 JPN-PC 1:48.97 1:50.50
25.86 53.55 (27.69)
1:22.06 (28.51) 1:50.50 (28.44)
9 Walters, Dave W 20 Longhorn Aquatic 1:47.93 1:50.62
26.38 54.64 (28.26)
1:22.97 (28.33) 1:50.62 (27.65)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
10 Brodie, Leith AUS 1:47.47 1:50.68
26.08 54.25 (28.17)
1:22.75 (28.50) 1:50.68 (27.93)
11 Grant, Andy W 23 UNAT-PC 1:49.25 1:50.71
26.27 54.55 (28.28)
1:22.78 (28.23) 1:50.71 (27.93)
12 DeJong, Chris H 24 Club Wolverine-M 1:48.84 1:50.83
26.65 55.23 (28.58)
1:23.35 (28.12) 1:50.83 (27.48)
13 Uchida, Sho 20 JPN-PC 1:48.57 1:50.94
26.53 54.37 (27.84)
1:22.71 (28.34) 1:50.94 (28.23)
14 Peirsol, Aaron W 24 Longhorn Aquatic 1:50.14 1:51.10
26.45 54.97 (28.52)
1:23.26 (28.29) 1:51.10 (27.84)
15 Ritter, Adam J 23 Tucson Ford Deal 1:47.42 1:51.25
26.44 55.01 (28.57)
1:23.56 (28.55) 1:51.25 (27.69)
16 Phillips, Shaun C 23 Nashville Aquati 1:49.01 1:51.60
26.41 54.57 (28.16)
1:23.44 (28.87) 1:51.60 (28.16)
17 Kuzuhara, Shunsuke 19 JPN-PC 1:49.31 1:51.63
25.90 53.74 (27.84)
1:22.47 (28.73) 1:51.63 (29.16)
18 Hockin, Benjamin 21 GBR 1:48.89 1:51.69
26.30 54.48 (28.18)
1:23.09 (28.61) 1:51.69 (28.60)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
19 Dunford, Jason E 21 UNAT-PC 1:53.09 1:51.78
25.59 53.62 (28.03)
1:22.74 (29.12) 1:51.78 (29.04)
20 Owen, Matthew A 24 Athens Bulldog S 1:48.78 1:51.82
26.20 54.56 (28.36)
1:23.30 (28.74) 1:51.82 (28.52)
21 Patton, Matt E 21 Club Wolverine-M 1:50.99 1:51.96
26.69 55.29 (28.60)
1:23.76 (28.47) 1:51.96 (28.20)
22 Neethling, Ryk 30 RSA-PC 1:50.88 1:52.08
26.14 54.73 (28.59)
1:24.08 (29.35) 1:52.08 (28.00)
23 Mononobe, Yasunori 22 JPN-PC 1:49.04 1:52.17
26.49 54.84 (28.35)
1:23.66 (28.82) 1:52.17 (28.51)
24 Grevers, Matt C 23 Tucson Ford Deal 1:48.41 1:52.25
26.30 54.43 (28.13)
1:23.21 (28.78) 1:52.25 (29.04)
25 Cosma, Catalin 19 CTA-SE 1:53.17 1:52.56
26.65 54.93 (28.28)
1:23.66 (28.73) 1:52.56 (28.90)
26 Ba˝uelos Sandoval, Ge 17 MEX 1:52.19 1:52.62
26.53 54.79 (28.26)
1:23.82 (29.03) 1:52.62 (28.80)
27 Houchin, Charlie G 20 Club Wolverine-M 1:53.78 1:52.71
26.20 55.01 (28.81)
1:23.96 (28.95) 1:52.71 (28.75)

ande
May 16th, 2008, 08:46 PM
impressive swims
new american record

Event 3 Women 100 LC Meter Freestyle
================================================== ================
World: 52.88 3/2008 Lisabeth Lenton-Trickett, AUS
American: 53.40 3/2007 Natalie Coughlin, USA
U.S. Open: 53.58 8/5/2006 Amanda Weir, Swim Atlanta
Meet: M 54.06 6/23/2006 Natalie Coughlin, Cal Aquitics
Name Age Team Prelims Finals
================================================== ================
=== A - Final ===

1 Campbell, Cate AUS 54.88 53.30M
25.92 53.30 (27.38)
2 Coughlin, Natalie A 25 California Aquat 54.73 53.39M
25.71 53.39 (27.68)
3 Nymeyer, Lacey P 22 Tucson Ford Deal 55.55 54.92
27.00 54.92 (27.92)
4 Vollmer, Dana W 20 UNAT-PC 55.07 54.95
26.70 54.95 (28.25)
5 Joyce, Kara Lynn P 22 Athens Bulldog S 55.87 55.09
27.09 55.09 (28.00)
6 Silver, Emily S 22 California Aquat 55.52 55.57
26.79 55.57 (28.78)
7 Vandenberg, Kim 24 Team Bruin-CA 55.77 55.73
27.37 55.73 (28.36)
8 Dwelley, Kate E 19 UNAT-PC 55.89 56.13
27.25 56.13 (28.88)
9 Scroggy, Morgan L 19 THSC-OR/UGA 55.82 56.48
27.39 56.48 (29.09)

ande
May 16th, 2008, 08:47 PM
another excellent swim
wonder what suit he wore



Event 4 Men 100 LC Meter Breaststroke
================================================== ================
World: 59.13 8/1/2006 Brendan Hansen, Longhorn
American: 59.13 8/1/2006 Brendan Hansen, Longhorn
U.S. Open: 59.13 8/1/2006 Brendan Hansen, Longhorn
Meet: M 1:01.29 6/29/2007 Brendan J Hansen, Longhorn Aquatic
Name Age Team Prelims Finals
================================================== ================
=== A - Final ===

1 Hansen, Brendan J 26 Longhorn Aquatic 1:01.75 1:00.01M
28.29 1:00.01 (31.72)

scyfreestyler
May 16th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Awesome AR for Natalie! Can't beat that with a stick.

scyfreestyler
May 16th, 2008, 09:03 PM
Good swim by Hansen and another meet record by Peter Vanderkaay in the 200 Free.

I see Peirsol swam this event as well.

KeithM
May 16th, 2008, 10:54 PM
I wonder if the women's 100 back record will go tomorrow?

scyfreestyler
May 17th, 2008, 12:10 PM
There are some new interviews on flocast from this meet. Amanda Beard, Brendan Hansen, Peter Vanderkaay, and Natalie Coughlin.

knelson
May 17th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Fifteen year old Elizabeth Beisel swam well this morning. She's seeded first in the 400 IM and second, behind Coughlin, in the 100 back. This girl could surprise a lot of people at Trials. I'll tell you what, the women's IMs are going to be real interesting at Trials. You've got to figure Katie Hoff has one spot locked up in both, but there are a number of girls who have great shots at the other spots.

carlos_fernandez
May 17th, 2008, 10:20 PM
Surprised nobody's updated this...

Piersol beats out Phelps by .03 in the 200 back!!! 1:55.81 to 1:55.84!!!

Natalie Coughlin misses the 100 back WR by .23! 59.44. :applaud: :cheerleader:

scyfreestyler
May 18th, 2008, 12:17 AM
There were some great races tonight. Vanderkaay with the new AR in the 400 was one to see. Vendt was on his hip for most of the race. Bowman must have had a grin ear to ear. I'll post some photos when I have a few moments.

scyfreestyler
May 18th, 2008, 01:02 AM
Would up with nosebleed seats so all of my shots were looooong. Anyhow, I'll share some of what I did get.


Natalie Coughlin leaves the field behind...
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002870.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002875.jpg


Peirsol and Phelps...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002848.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002849.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002854.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002860.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002867.jpg


Phelps and Tarwater in the 100 Fly...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002788.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002790.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002792.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002793.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002797.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002837.jpg

Tara Kirk...
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002839.jpg


Vanderkaay and Vendt...
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/002822.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/002830.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002841.jpg




Who's that girl...
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002807.jpg

The Fortress
May 18th, 2008, 10:17 AM
Read in the Post today that the drawstring on Phelps' LZR broke right before the 400 IM. Third time it has happened. He apparently raced over to the Speedo tent yelling and screaming to grab a Pro, ruining his pre-race rituals. Swam great yesterday, including a great 100 fly. He's still saying he will wear Speedo's "fastest" suit at trials. Speed will have "corrected" the fragile drawstring problem by then.

quicksilver
May 18th, 2008, 10:51 AM
Wow. Great photos Matt.

(The range of motion in Phelp's arm and shoulder girdle is incredible.)
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002788.jpg


Must be so cool to see these meets outdoors.
A nice side benefit of being a Californian.

scyfreestyler
May 18th, 2008, 11:27 AM
Thanks.

Outdoors is nice, but it was quite hot this weekend. When we left our car in the parking lot around 4:45 it was 92 degrees. I was a little concerned as we passed through Gilroy en route to the meet, the outdoor temperature read 101. But then again, we have also seen the other extreme at this pool. Pacific Swimming holds it's Zone 1 South championship meet there during the winter time (January as I recall). In 2007, the buckets holding the EZ Ups down were frozen over. We were having record low temperatures at that time...figures.

jaegermeister
May 18th, 2008, 12:58 PM
1 Peirsol, Aaron W 24 Longhorn Aquatic 2:00.53 1:55.81M
27.90 57.25 (29.35)
1:26.66 (29.41) 1:55.81 (29.15)
2 Phelps, Michael F 22 Club Wolverine-M 2:00.89 1:55.84M
28.27 57.58 (29.31)
1:27.20 (29.62) 1:55.84 (28.64)

I wish I could have seen this race. I couldn't get a feed from Floswimming at about 8:30 PM central time. Is anyone else seeing these races live?

scyfreestyler
May 18th, 2008, 01:27 PM
1 Peirsol, Aaron W 24 Longhorn Aquatic 2:00.53 1:55.81M
27.90 57.25 (29.35)
1:26.66 (29.41) 1:55.81 (29.15)
2 Phelps, Michael F 22 Club Wolverine-M 2:00.89 1:55.84M
28.27 57.58 (29.31)
1:27.20 (29.62) 1:55.84 (28.64)

I wish I could have seen this race. I couldn't get a feed from Floswimming at about 8:30 PM central time. Is anyone else seeing these races live?

I think this was the only race to bring the crowd to it's feet. It appeared for a bit as if Phelps would win but obviously, it was not to be. I have to wonder how different the results might have been if Phelps had not just swam a 100 fly 45 minutes prior. I think the 200 back was Peirsol's only race last night. Something to think about as we move towards trials.

carlos_fernandez
May 18th, 2008, 01:31 PM
Interesting results so far today...

Phelps will be outside smoke in the Big Final for the 100 free, and a couple of big names missed making the finals (9th and final spot was a 50.30; Phelps got 8th in 50.20):

Roland Schoeman qualified for the Lil' Final, 11th overall: 50.40.

And Wildman-Tobriner qualified for the Lil' Final, 16th overall: 50.72.

Masters swimmer Roque Santos qualified for the Tiny Final (2:24.19), missing the Lil' Final by 2 seconds and the Big Final by 5. Not bad for a dad w/ 3 lil' ones running around!

carlos_fernandez
May 18th, 2008, 01:37 PM
I have to wonder how different the results might have been if Phelps had not just swam a 100 fly 45 minutes prior. I think the 200 back was Peirsol's only race last night. Something to think about as we move towards trials.
Is he going to swim the 200 back at trials?

We (I??) should probably start a thread on what Phelps will swim at the trials. I know they're keeping it Uber Secret Hush Hush on the Down Low, yo, but we could probably figure it out...

Rich Abrahams
May 18th, 2008, 02:06 PM
Masters at the meet:

Michael Ross goes 56.62 in the 100 fly, breaking the USMS record of 57.57 held by Paul Carter in the 40-44 age group.

Paul Carter just misses Trip Hedrick's record in the 100 fly in the 50-54, going 59.58. The record is 59.49.

Very nice swims.

ande
May 18th, 2008, 02:51 PM
excitement

Event 26 Men 100 LC Meter Freestyle
================================================== ================
World: 47.50 3/2008 Alain Bernard, AUS
American: 48.17 7/10/2004 Jason Lezak, Irvine Nova
U.S. Open: 48.17 7/10/2004 Jason Lezak, Irvine Nova
Meet: M 49.10 7/1/2007 Michael F Phelps, Club Wolverine
Name Age Team Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Lezak, Jason E 32 Rose Bowl Aquati 48.51 49.10M
23.34 49.10 (25.76)
2 Walters, Dave W 20 Longhorn Aquatic 48.96 49.68
24.36 49.68 (25.32)
3 Neethling, Ryk 30 RSA-PC 49.28 49.88
24.16 49.88 (25.72)
4 Ferns, Lyndon 24 RSA-PC 48.82 49.98
23.86 49.98 (26.12)
5 Louw, Gideon RSA-PC 49.00 50.03
24.15 50.03 (25.88)
6 Vanderkaay, Peter W 24 Club Wolverine-M 49.20 50.05
24.23 50.05 (25.82)
7 Grevers, Matt C 23 Tucson Ford Deal 48.53 50.15
24.06 50.15 (26.09)
8 Phelps, Michael F 22 Club Wolverine-M 48.41 50.20
24.90 50.20 (25.30)
9 Puninski, Alexei 23 UNAT-SE 49.58 50.30
23.83 50.30 (26.47)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
10 Brodie, Leith AUS 49.14 50.37
24.37 50.37 (26.00)
11 Schoeman, Roland 27 RSA-PC 48.41 50.40
24.03 50.40 (26.37)
12 Grant, Andy W 23 UNAT-PC 49.88 50.43
24.13 50.43 (26.30)
13 Hockin, Benjamin 21 GBR 49.55 50.50
24.53 50.50 (25.97)
14 Berens, Ricky C 20 Longhorn Aquatic 49.75 50.60
24.46 50.60 (26.14)
15 Copeland, William F 22 California Aquat 50.38 50.67
23.73 50.67 (26.94)
16 Wildman-Tobriner, Ben 23 UNAT-PC 49.38 50.72
24.39 50.72 (26.33)
17 Dunford, Jason E 21 UNAT-PC 49.98 50.92
24.71 50.92 (26.21)
18 Miller, Tom AUS 49.77 50.95
24.22 50.95 (26.73)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
19 Patterson, Mitchell AUS 50.61 51.15
24.82 51.15 (26.33)
20 Ritter, Adam J 23 Tucson Ford Deal 49.44 51.26
24.78 51.26 (26.48)
21 Klueh, Michael P 21 Longhorn Aquatic 51.42 51.29
25.94 51.29 (25.35)
22 Gomez, Roberto VEN-SE 51.96 51.31
23 Lundquist, Bryan J 22 Stingrays-GA/Aub 49.78 51.32
24.69 51.32 (26.63)
24 Brown, Adam 19 GBR 49.50 51.40
24.76 51.40 (26.64)
25 DeJong, Chris H 24 Club Wolverine-M 50.50 51.44
25.14 51.44 (26.30)
26 Sorge, Scott W 20 UNAT-PC 52.06 51.45
27 Tarwater, Davis E 24 Club Wolverine-M 50.08 51.51
24.63 51.51 (26.88)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
28 Kuzuhara, Shunsuke 19 JPN-PC 50.28 51.53
25.23 51.53 (26.30)
29 Okumura, Yoshihro 25 JPN-PC 49.91 51.56
25.15 51.56 (26.41)
29 Haynes, Terrence BAR-SE 51.48 51.56
24.59 51.56 (26.97)


Event 30 Men 100 LC Meter Backstroke
================================================== ================
World: W 52.98 3/25/2007 Aaron Peirsol, USA
American: A 52.98 3/25/2007 Aaron Peirsol, USA
U.S. Open: O 53.17 4/2/2005 Aaron Peirsol, Longhorn
Meet: M 54.45 7/1/2007 Michael Phelps, Club Wolverine
Name Age Team Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Grevers, Matt C 23 Tucson Ford Deal 55.31 55.07
27.10 55.07 (27.97)
2 Peirsol, Aaron W 24 Longhorn Aquatic 52.98 55.12
27.03 55.12 (28.09)
3 Sun, Hongzhe M 22 UNAT-PC 55.13 55.76
27.45 55.76 (28.31)
4 Godsoe, Eugene D 20 UNAT-PC 56.21 56.11
27.08 56.11 (29.03)
5 Phelps, Michael F 22 Club Wolverine-M 53.01 56.29
27.86 56.29 (28.43)
6 Koga, Junya 20 JPN-PC 54.79 56.40
27.64 56.40 (28.76)
7 Clay, Matthew 25 GBR 54.20 56.48
27.60 56.48 (28.88)
8 Wike, James W 24 UNAT-SE 55.14 56.53
27.70 56.53 (28.83)
9 Loughran, Marco 19 WALES 54.40 56.55
27.39 56.55 (29.16)


Event 28 Men 200 LC Meter IM
================================================== ================
World: 1:54.98 3/25/2007 Michael Phelps, USA
American: 1:54.98 3/25/2007 Michael Phelps, USA
U.S. Open: 1:55.94 8/9/2003 Michael Phelps, N. Baltimore
Meet: M 1:57.76 6/25/2006 Michael Phelps, Club Wolverine
Name Age Team Seed Prelims
================================================== ================
=== Preliminaries ===

1 Brodie, Leith AUS 1:59.90 2:02.15
26.63 58.15 (31.52)
1:33.52 (35.37) 2:02.15 (28.63)
2 Vanderkaay, Alex R 21 Club Wolverine-M 2:03.87 2:02.80
26.34 58.05 (31.71)
1:33.31 (35.26) 2:02.80 (29.49)
3 Phelps, Michael F 22 Club Wolverine-M 1:54.98 2:04.46
26.97 59.01 (32.04)
1:35.22 (36.21) 2:04.46 (29.24)
4 Margalis, Robert J 26 Athens Bulldog S 2:00.69 2:04.72
27.47 59.43 (31.96)
1:35.93 (36.50) 2:04.72 (28.79)
5 Clary, Tyler T 19 Club Wolverine-M 2:03.35 2:05.43
26.95 57.97 (31.02)
1:36.62 (38.65) 2:05.43 (28.81)
6 Mahoney, Sean R R 19 UNAT-PC 2:05.26 2:05.75
28.17 1:02.17 (34.00)
1:36.10 (33.93) 2:05.75 (29.65)
7 Grenda, Dane R 21 Club Wolverine-M 2:05.09 2:05.87
26.67 58.80 (32.13)
1:35.76 (36.96) 2:05.87 (30.11)
8 Cregar, Bill M 18 Athens Bulldog S 2:07.18 2:06.02
27.25 1:00.57 (33.32)
1:36.94 (36.37) 2:06.02 (29.08)
9 Hinshaw, Ben S 17 UNAT-PC 2:07.16 2:06.40
27.58 1:00.05 (32.47)
1:37.43 (37.38) 2:06.40 (28.97)

carlos_fernandez
May 18th, 2008, 06:56 PM
Anybody have any idea why there are sooooo many DQs at this meet?

KeithM
May 18th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Scratching after the deadline maybe?

scyfreestyler
May 18th, 2008, 07:32 PM
I heard a few reminders about positive check-in required on Sunday.

scyfreestyler
May 18th, 2008, 11:33 PM
What a night for Club Wolverine. Phelps takes the 100 Free, 200 IM, and the 100 Back. Vendt earns a new US Open record in the 1500 and narrowly misses the AR.

knelson
May 18th, 2008, 11:55 PM
Wow, I just saw Lia Neal was fifth in the 50 free and dipped under 26 seconds with a 25.94. That's amazing.

Also, how about Cate Campbell from Australia? She blew Natalie Coughlin's doors off and swam the third fastest time in history in the 50 free. This girl is currently 15, folks (she turns 16 next week)!

USMSarah
May 19th, 2008, 12:23 AM
Read in the Post today that the drawstring on Phelps' LZR broke right before the 400 IM. Third time it has happened. He apparently raced over to the Speedo tent yelling and screaming to grab a Pro, ruining his pre-race rituals. Swam great yesterday, including a great 100 fly. He's still saying he will wear Speedo's "fastest" suit at trials. Speed will have "corrected" the fragile drawstring problem by then.

I saw that too... here's the article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/17/AR2008051702992.html

ourswimmer
May 19th, 2008, 12:37 AM
Anyhow, I'll share some of what I did get.

Peirsol and Phelps...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/scyfreestyler/0002849.jpg


Nice photos, especially this one. In combination with the photo with that Washington Post article, you really see how the best do back starts.

Thanks for posting them.

tjburk
May 19th, 2008, 08:57 AM
Wow, I just saw Lia Neal was fifth in the 50 free and dipped under 26 seconds with a 25.94. That's amazing.

Also, how about Cate Campbell from Australia? She blew Natalie Coughlin's doors off and swam the third fastest time in history in the 50 free. This girl is currently 15, folks (she turns 16 next week)!

Dara Torres swam faster than both Coughlin and Joyce....trials should be interesting!!!

tjburk
May 19th, 2008, 09:39 AM
After all the talk about Kevin in the 100 Back....anybody know what happened? Seemed a bit off for this meet! Concentrating on Trials?

tjburk
May 19th, 2008, 09:48 AM
Just read his website and saw that he had not rested at all for this meet....

Paul Smith
May 19th, 2008, 10:22 AM
Dara Torres swam faster than both Coughlin and Joyce....trials should be interesting!!!

In a short pool...but still very fast.

tjburk
May 19th, 2008, 10:34 AM
If the measurement holds up.....it was about 1.18" short.....

Thought they usually measured right before a big meet like this....

thewookiee
May 19th, 2008, 10:47 AM
In a short pool...but still very fast.

They went back and fixed the pool before finals on Sunday night...so fast time in a regulation pool.

USMSarah
May 19th, 2008, 01:52 PM
Wow, I just saw Lia Neal was fifth in the 50 free and dipped under 26 seconds with a 25.94. That's amazing.

Also, how about Cate Campbell from Australia? She blew Natalie Coughlin's doors off and swam the third fastest time in history in the 50 free. This girl is currently 15, folks (she turns 16 next week)!

Miss Campbell's freestyle is AMAZING. I watched both her 50 & 100, she makes it look graceful and easy.

tjburk
May 19th, 2008, 02:03 PM
She definitely out swam Natalie on the second 50....