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chowmi
May 11th, 2008, 08:29 AM
Hey everyone! Another great swimming article in the New York Times today with pictures! Would someone please add a link? I don't know how; only get the hardcopy edition.

She is so awesome!!!!!

ande
May 11th, 2008, 09:09 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/sports/othersports/11swim.html?_r=1&sq=susan%20von%20swimmer&st=nyt&oref=slogin&scp=1&pagewanted=print

Paul Smith
May 11th, 2008, 01:06 PM
I recognize the name...isn't she the one who swimming world magazine felt wasn't good enough to be in their top 10 womens masters swimmers for 2007?

Sam Perry
May 11th, 2008, 02:25 PM
I recognize the name...isn't she the one who swimming world magazine felt wasn't good enough to be in their top 10 womens masters swimmers for 2007?

Yeah, you are right Paul. Jeff and you need to settle that Monday morning at Brophy. Can I be referee?

quicksilver
May 11th, 2008, 06:17 PM
“Three times a week is pretty good for a mom to go out and exercise,” von der Lippe said.

USMSarah
May 11th, 2008, 06:30 PM
“Three times a week is pretty good for a mom to go out and exercise,” von der Lippe said.

I love it! Imagine how much faster she would be if she trained more (she's already FAST, but wow)! She's awesome. That was a great article - thanks for sharing.

:o

scyfreestyler
May 11th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Another fine example of training smarter, not necessarily harder. Of course, a good dose of talent and years of experience don't hurt either.

The Fortress
May 11th, 2008, 08:52 PM
“Three times a week is pretty good for a mom to go out and exercise,” von der Lippe said.

Uh, is that accurate? I'm a huge SVDL fan, but I've previously read that she swims 4x a week and does weights and dryland training.

3x a week is extremely average for athletic types and even somewhat unhealthy. (Obviously, there are times when this is all thats possible for various reasons.) I thought we were supposed to work out 60 minutes a day or so. Training smart is always a good idea, but I just feel some masters are prone to underestimate their total training. Not saying SVDL is, but most moms I know (no newborns or multiple young babes) would not think 3x a week is all that impressive.

SVDL would cleary be "chicking" both Smiths if she worked out as much as them!

scyfreestyler
May 11th, 2008, 08:57 PM
How is 3 times a week unhealthy?

The Fortress
May 11th, 2008, 09:13 PM
How is 3 times a week unhealthy?

I didn't say unhealthy. I said somewhat. Obviously, its WAY better than being sedentary or chowing down fast food. Especially beneficial if the 3x a week is intense. But for optimal health, I thought studies suggested that we were supposed to exercise with more frequency. Look, 3x a week is fine, but personally I don't find it unduly impressive. But I'm sure some folks would rather do other things with their time.

scyfreestyler
May 11th, 2008, 09:27 PM
Gotcha. One could very well fill in with a brisk 20-30 minute walk on the no swim days and be well within the guidelines suggested by the experts.

Anyhow, her results are hard to argue with I would say.

chowmi
May 11th, 2008, 09:32 PM
The point is she's not swimming 5-12 times a week. Same theme of Dara's swim training of 5 times a week.

I would guess that whatever they are doing, in and out of the pool, it's very precise, focused, and customized - again, less is more but with incredible bang for the time and effort spent.

Jazz Hands
May 11th, 2008, 10:37 PM
I didn't say unhealthy. I said somewhat. Obviously, its WAY better than being sedentary or chowing down fast food. Especially beneficial if the 3x a week is intense. But for optimal health, I thought studies suggested that we were supposed to exercise with more frequency. Look, 3x a week is fine, but personally I don't find it unduly impressive. But I'm sure some folks would rather do other things with their time.

I think three intense exercise sessions weekly is fine for optimal health, as long as there's some light physical activity every day, like walking.

The Fortress
May 11th, 2008, 10:41 PM
The point is she's not swimming 5-12 times a week. Same theme of Dara's swim training of 5 times a week.

I would guess that whatever they are doing, in and out of the pool, it's very precise, focused, and customized - again, less is more but with incredible bang for the time and effort spent.

I don't really know how precise and focused you can get when you're swimming 50-200 in almost every stroke and the IMs ... Its not like shes focusing on one event like Dara. I'm attributing it to unbelievable raw talent.

Swimmer Bill
May 12th, 2008, 03:11 AM
I recognize the name...isn't she the one who swimming world magazine felt wasn't good enough to be in their top 10 womens masters swimmers for 2007?

I'm SO glad I don't have to participate on that panel any more.

Here's the ironic thing: the people who whined endlessly about the "elitist" list are the same folks who threw tantrums when we didn't print All-American rosters in SWIMMER the first year.

Go figure!

:violin:

aquageek
May 12th, 2008, 08:09 AM
I have to agree with Fort in that 3X a week is neither sufficient nor impressive, for the average person. Obviously Von der Lippe is the exception to this. If all you can muster is 3 days, what's the point? I guess 3 days is better than no days but that's about all. I don't think we should set the bar so low for mothers. I happen to reside with one who does well over 3 days a week, and doubles many of those days.

SwimStud
May 12th, 2008, 08:55 AM
I have to agree with Fort in that 3X a week is neither sufficient nor impressive, for the average person. Obviously Von der Lippe is the exception to this. If all you can muster is 3 days, what's the point? I guess 3 days is better than no days but that's about all. I don't think we should set the bar so low for mothers. I happen to reside with one who does well over 3 days a week, and doubles many of those days.

Yes but any time away from you is motivation and reward enough I am sure...
:lmao:

USMSarah
May 12th, 2008, 09:05 AM
Well, I'm going to have to disagree with some of you about how only exercising 3x a week is not very respectful. Last year when I stopped swimming in the spring - I started a running program and it was only 3x a week (35-40 min each workout), I watched what I ate - and lost 25 lbs (pregnancy weight that was being stubborn about going away). I thought that was a pretty darn great accomplishment.

:banana:

tjburk
May 12th, 2008, 09:08 AM
I think this goes a lot to what Paul Smith said on another thread somewhere.. as we get older our body needs more recovery time.....maybe she found the best routine for her to use and still be able to compete at the highest level.

For those doubters out there......have you ever tried training and only swimming 3 days a week? Doing strength and conditioning stuff the other days? I say unless you have tried it how do you know that it's "somewhat unhealthy" or "neither sufficient or impressive"? Just my :2cents: of course.

I have found personally that only swimming 3 days a week and doing physical therapy exercises a couple of days "seems" to be working pretty good for my arm problems. So I am contemplating using this formula for a while instead of pounding out the yards like I was trying to do last year.......

aquageek
May 12th, 2008, 09:27 AM
Well, I'm going to have to disagree with some of you about how only exercising 3x a week is not very respectful. Last year when I stopped swimming in the spring - I started a running program and it was only 3x a week (35-40 min each workout), I watched what I ate - and lost 25 lbs (pregnancy weight that was being stubborn about going away). I thought that was a pretty darn great accomplishment.

:banana:

Right - like I said, three days a week is better than zero days a week. Personally, I'd go crazy if I only worked out for 1.5 hours or so a week. You are getting to a base level of fitness with that time, nothing more.

tj - note you only swim 3 days a week but do other stuff as well. Therefore, you don't just work out three days a week.

USMSarah
May 12th, 2008, 09:31 AM
Right - like I said, three days a week is better than zero days a week. Personally, I'd go crazy if I only worked out for 1.5 hours or so a week. You are getting to a base level of fitness with that time, nothing more.


But you also said, "what's the point?" Anyways, yes - I did get to a base level of fitness - no olympic trial cut here.

;)

tjburk
May 12th, 2008, 09:42 AM
According to the article she doesn't just swim three days a week either...

Von der Lippe circuit-trains in a weight room and swims three mornings a week, for 90 minutes at a time. Elite swimmers generally have 5 to 12 workouts in the water a week.

“Three times a week is pretty good for a mom to go out and exercise,” von der Lippe said.

Sounds like she is doing more than just swimming to me.....

Leonard Jansen
May 12th, 2008, 10:02 AM
3 days a week may not be impressive, but she's in the Olympic Trials and I'm not. So, I'm not going to gain-say her.

-LBJ

quicksilver
May 12th, 2008, 10:10 AM
As is the case with many elite masters...like Josh Davis for example...they're still riding on the wave of base training and technique from their younger days.


"She resumed swimming in her mid-30s, working out three times a week with a masters team. ...She credits her fast times to the mileage base she built in her younger days, muscle memory, the full-body suits that were introduced in 2000 and a more relaxed attitude.

Von der Lippe circuit-trains in a weight room and swims three mornings a week, for 90 minutes at a time. Elite swimmers generally have 5 to 12 workouts in the water a week."

Not everyone is going to excel with such a modest training schedule.

CreamPuff
May 12th, 2008, 10:22 AM
As is the case with many elite masters...like Josh Davis for example...they're still riding on the wave of base training and technique from their younger days.


I'm nowhere near an elite masters (just a plain masters) and I noticed something similar in my training with the kids. First, I found that as a masters, I really did not train fly sets (I would do a few 25s and 50s here and there and leave it at that). And when I did swim fly sets in practice with the kids or with masters, I was really SLOW.

So, I'm doing some fly sets with the kids and I'm going last in my lane and just making the intervals. However, when it was time to race 100 and 200s fly for time, I ended up outswimming those same kids comfortably. Now I wasn't loafing the sets by any means (was trying my best). I just attribute my ability to go fast when it counted (get into that next gear) due to my 20+ years of swimming experience, past training, and muscle memory. :2cents:

Anyway, I'm thrilled for SVDL. She is my hero. I, however, could never train three days a week and get OT cuts. I found that when I swam 3x/ week in the past, I could NOT do anything over a 100.

hofffam
May 12th, 2008, 10:29 AM
It makes no sense for anyone here to question what SVDL does for training. She is faster than 95% (maybe more?) of the women in Masters regardless of age. She is faster than a huge percentage of the men - regardless of age. Her 200 IM time was faster than all but 35 men's times at Nationals. She was the fastest woman at Nats.

Josh Davis is obviously relying on tremendous talent and training from his NCAA days - but he says on Floswimming that he trains just 3000-4000 yds. per week. Much of it is resistance (pulley) based. His 1:36.54 200 free is pretty incredible at 35 years old.

I think SVDL's training in MOST IMPRESSIVE.

USMSarah
May 12th, 2008, 10:36 AM
It makes no sense for anyone here to question what SVDL does for training. She is faster than 95% (maybe more?) of the women in Masters regardless of age. She is faster than a huge percentage of the men - regardless of age. Her 200 IM time was faster than all but 35 men's times at Nationals. She was the fastest woman at Nats.

Josh Davis is obviously relying on tremendous talent and training from his NCAA days - but he says on Floswimming that he trains just 3000-4000 yds. per week. Much of it is resistance (pulley) based. His 1:36.54 200 free is pretty incredible at 35 years old.

I think SVDL's training in MOST IMPRESSIVE.

Amen. :applaud:

aquageek
May 12th, 2008, 10:50 AM
It makes no sense for anyone here to question what SVDL does for training.

I think if you will read the posts more carefully, all of us have gone out of our way to state that she is in a class by herself. We are speaking more to the mere mortals, not her.

TheGoodSmith
May 12th, 2008, 11:06 AM
Susan's accomplishments are so impressive. She is the "real" thing. Her final quote in the article says it all. She swims on a budget with family concerns coming first.

Whether or not she is doing it for a free deck pass or to race again, I hope she gets the proper coverage being the oldest female at the Trials.

It's good to see "real" people excel.


John Smith

Swimmer Bill
May 12th, 2008, 11:24 AM
It's good to see "real" people excel.

I agree 100%. She's one of the most accomplished swimmers among the Masters, yet one of the most humble. You will never hear her whining about the Swimming World Top 12, and you won't see her throwing a tantrum about All-American lists not appearing in SWIMMER.

People who think those things validate their swimming could learn a lot from Susan.

:applaud:

scyfreestyler
May 12th, 2008, 11:48 AM
I agree 100%. She's one of the most accomplished swimmers among the Masters, yet one of the most humble. You will never hear her whining about the Swimming World Top 12, and you won't see her throwing a tantrum about All-American lists not appearing in SWIMMER.

People who think those things validate their swimming could learn a lot from Susan.

:applaud:


If you're looking for fame and fortune, swimming is the wrong avenue to follow. If you're looking for an avenue in which to pursue some personal achievement goals, welcome.

The Fortress
May 12th, 2008, 12:02 PM
It makes no sense for anyone here to question what SVDL does for training. She is faster than 95% (maybe more?) of the women in Masters regardless of age. She is faster than a huge percentage of the men - regardless of age. Her 200 IM time was faster than all but 35 men's times at Nationals. She was the fastest woman at Nats.

Josh Davis is obviously relying on tremendous talent and training from his NCAA days - but he says on Floswimming that he trains just 3000-4000 yds. per week. Much of it is resistance (pulley) based. His 1:36.54 200 free is pretty incredible at 35 years old.

I think SVDL's training in MOST IMPRESSIVE.

As Geek said, who's questioning her training?! Re-read. When the debate got going it was over the generic question of whether 3x a week of working out is impressive.

Sarah: I hear you, but you will see that I exempted women with newborns and multiple small babies. It's much more difficult to work out then, as I know from experience. I didn't start competing until age 44. But as you adjust to a family and they get a bit older, you can find time to train or work out, as Ms. Geek does. But it does take discipline. Running is a great way to cut baby fat. Much more effective than swimming IMHO.

I'm sure 3x a week of SWIMMING would be fine for most masters to excel if they also supplemented with activities others do -- yoga, stretching, running, spinning, lifting, drylands, etc. It's just misleading to say you can be amazing by only swimming 3x a week and nothing else -- unless you're a rare talent like SVDL or Josh Davis. Those folks are just in another league talent wise.

I agree with Bill about world class whining. Not appealing. It's refreshing to meet people like SVDL, Rich Abrahams or Chris Stevenson who are humble and actually interested in how others are doing.

chowmi
May 12th, 2008, 12:16 PM
One of the things I love most about SVdL is how she pokes fun at her body.

aquageek
May 12th, 2008, 12:21 PM
Running is a great way to cut baby fat.

And adult fat.

Paul Smith
May 12th, 2008, 12:21 PM
Susan trains smarter/harder in 3x swim workouts a week than you can imagine. And don't be fooled by her circuit training comment...I know what she does and its pathetic (I love ya SVDL but we've talked about this!).

As I have posted numerous times...and gotten (S)he slapped for it...low yardage high intensity training is highly effective if your goals are clear (that your race vs fitness motivated and have a realistic event line up). there is no need what so ever as a competive masters swimmer to train at the voumne 95% train at.

Geek...your on the wrong website...go over hang with your multisport buds and talk about how many hours/miles/yards you trained today...by the way, thought of you on your cute little aero bars watching some of your buds "dropped" into position riding in stop & go traffic....where its SO important to be aerodynamic!!!

Swimmer Bill...as I told Mr. Commings this morning, my point in calling out the process of voting by SW is that you sometimes have to look beyond only stats/formulas (fire away Chris!) in deciding things like these awards. I think their putting Laura V on the cover and their promotion of masters is awesome...they just missed the boat on leaving SVDL out this year as they will next year because she won't be swimming in the meets they use to score by.

aquageek
May 12th, 2008, 12:42 PM
Geek...your on the wrong website...go over hang with your multisport buds and talk about how many hours/miles/yards you trained today...by the way, thought of you on your cute little aero bars watching some of your buds "dropped" into position riding in stop & go traffic....where its SO important to be aerodynamic!!!


In the unlikely event you and your halfling toothless first cousin ever decided to challenge yourself and leave the life aquatic, there are a few of us waiting to enjoy that spectacle. I'm glad my foto brings you such displeasure as that was its precise target and intended purpose.

Oh, I stopped by the only other website you visit, fleetwoodmacforever.com, and they said that if you still listen to their lifeless lame fairy music that you must immediately apply for AARP and get an extensive prostate checkup.

ande
May 12th, 2008, 12:47 PM
I spoke with Josh Davis (http://joshdavis.com/)

he said most of his training comes from doing his
www.USASwimmer.com swim clinics

at some point during the clinic he's in the water and
races the kids in a 50

I think he also has a lap pool in his front yard.
Plus he wore an LZR at Nats

He has a new book coming out called

The Goal & The Glory: World-Class Athletes Share Their Inspiring Stories

Since the apostle Paul, athletic training and competition have inspired countless believers towards excellence in their faith. Now gain fight-the-good-fight insights from world-class Chrisitian athletes---including past Olympic champions and current hopefuls!
Compiled by 5-Time Olympic Medalist Josh Davis, this unique devotional features 60 meditations exploring dedication and sacrifice while practicing God's presence on the road to glory.

Coming to a book store near you...June 2008





Josh Davis is obviously relying on tremendous talent and training from his NCAA days - but he says on Floswimming that he trains just 3000-4000 yds. per week. Much of it is resistance (pulley) based. His 1:36.54 200 free is pretty incredible at 35 years old.

Swimmer Bill
May 12th, 2008, 12:49 PM
Swimmer Bill...as I told Mr. Commings this morning, my point in calling out the process of voting by SW is that you sometimes have to look beyond only stats/formulas (fire away Chris!) in deciding things like these awards. I think their putting Laura V on the cover and their promotion of masters is awesome...they just missed the boat on leaving SVDL out this year as they will next year because she won't be swimming in the meets they use to score by.

Back when I was part of the panel, we did look beyond stats. We also considered swimmers who primarily participated in open water and long distance events. I fought hard for Wally Dicks, Tom Landis, Greg Shaw, and even you - swimmers who had fewer records and AA's than other swimmers, but whose swims were of exceptional quality.

When we did that, people who had more records and AA's whined about not being on the list. As you can imagine, I've seen a lot of that, but never from SvdL.

Paul Smith
May 12th, 2008, 01:13 PM
I hereby officially apologize to SVDL for calling her weight training routine "pathetic"....I was just informed by Ms. V that she did indeed do her "circuit" today and unlike the other 65+ (age) ladies in the gym who were doing squats, dead lifts and clean & jerks (must have read jazz's posts)...she almost broke a sweat.

Geek...bring you $10,000 bike out her to Tempe and we'll take a little "ride" only rule is you can't drop onto your aero bars when sitting at a stop sign....poser!

PS: check the angle on that seat buddy, rumor has it your wifes concerned that your voice is getting a bit higher lately.

Swimmer Bill
May 12th, 2008, 01:27 PM
BTW, you know you're kewl when you've got your own abbreviation.

SvdL, FTW!

aquageek
May 12th, 2008, 01:32 PM
PS: check the angle on that seat buddy, rumor has it your wifes concenred that your voice is getting a bit higher lately.

That would mean that my wife actually listens to anything I say.

The Fortress
May 12th, 2008, 02:11 PM
I hereby officially apologize to SVDL for calling her weight training routine "pathetic"....

That's what I said in my first post. Exceptional results and unexceptional training. She is kewl!! Apparently, Mrs. Geek is too!

quicksilver
May 12th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Susan trains smarter/harder in 3x swim workouts a week than you can imagine.

...low yardage high intensity training is highly effective if your goals are clear. There is no need what so ever as a competitive masters swimmer to train at the volume 95% train at.




It seems that the majority of masters with top ten times do both...whether it be practicing alongside of "the kids"...or focusing on 'all out' one lap sprints. Training with intensity and a purpose appears to be the winning formula.

It's always inspirational to hear about a '40 something' going as fast as they did in their early twenties.

aquaFeisty
May 12th, 2008, 02:56 PM
I gained 34 lbs with my first pregnancy. I lost 50 lbs swimming twice a week for 60-75 min and not really doing any other type of workout. YES, even swimming only twice/week got me back in semi-decent shape.

Last year, I swam 3x/week for 60-75 min each time. In addition, I did core/rotator work 2-3x/week and taught aqua aerobics for 2 hours per week (taught from the deck... kinda like a low impact workout from my perspective). I did 4 LIFETIME bests that year.

This year, I swam 4x/week, did core/rotator stuff 2x/week and continued to teach the aerobics. Sadly, can't tell you that I set new lifetime bests because I got pregnant and kinda blew my taper (whoops). However, I was doing lifetime in-season bests before getting pregnant.

I do not have a huge youth background to draw upon. I definitely do not have huge raw talent. I'm just pointing out that in my experience it is definitely possible to swim well only training in the pool 3x/week.*** Sounds like SVDL has found a program that works great for her! It was great watching her swim in Austin and I hope she smokes it at Trials! :)


***I 100% agree with (S)he-man's comment about training 3x/week not being good for much more than sprints for most people. One of those lifetime bests last year was indeed in a 200, but only because my 200 free was beyond pathetic and now it has moved to the category of only slightly beyond pathetic.

Chris Stevenson
May 29th, 2008, 05:52 PM
Swimmer Bill...as I told Mr. Commings this morning, my point in calling out the process of voting by SW is that you sometimes have to look beyond only stats/formulas (fire away Chris!) in deciding things like these awards.

Paul,

I have been working on a project in my spare time that relates to this. I remembered your post and wanted to show you that statistics sometmies is a good thing!

I used the (statistically based!) performance rating system described on

http://www.vaswim.org/cgi-bin/rcalc.cgi

and came up with the top 25 USMS swims from LCM and SCM in 2007. To make some attempt to preserve the table formatting, I put it in a text file and have attached it to this message (it works on Notepad for me).

It only includes USMS members -- I got the performances from the Top Ten database. Susan does quite well, as you can see. In fact, if you assign points to places (1st gets 25, 2nd 24, etc) and then add them up, you get the following totals

Laura Val: 236
Susan Von Der Lippe: 146
Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen: 144
Caroline Krattli: 74
Lois Nochman: 24
Sue Walsh: 14
Rita Simonton: 12

So SVdL comes in 2nd among US women. This omits SCY and non-USMS masters (it wouldn't be very difficult to include the latter, I just hadn't planned on doing so). Still, it is hard to believe that the 2nd best US masters swimmer is not one of the top 12 in the world.

Paul Smith
May 29th, 2008, 06:36 PM
Paul,

I have been working on a project in my spare time that relates to this. I remembered your post and wanted to show you that statistics sometmies is a good thing!

I used the (statistically based!) performance rating system described on

http://www.vaswim.org/cgi-bin/rcalc.cgi

and came up with the top 25 USMS swims from LCM and SCM in 2007. To make some attempt to preserve the table formatting, I put it in a text file and have attached it to this message (it works on Notepad for me).

It only includes USMS members -- I got the performances from the Top Ten database. Susan does quite well, as you can see. In fact, if you assign points to places (1st gets 25, 2nd 24, etc) and then add them up, you get the following totals

Laura Val: 236
Susan Von Der Lippe: 146
Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen: 144
Caroline Krattli: 74
Lois Nochman: 24
Sue Walsh: 14
Rita Simonton: 12

So SVdL comes in 2nd among US women. This omits SCY and non-USMS masters (it wouldn't be very difficult to include the latter, I just hadn't planned on doing so). Still, it is hard to believe that the 2nd best US masters swimmer is not one of the top 12 in the world.


Chris...got any time to help me with my taxes this year?! :)

I want to clarify again that I in no way was implying that any of the swimmers selected were not VERY worthy (believe it or not someone told LV that was what I had implied)...my point all along was that something didn't add up if Ms. Susan wasn't included.

Thanks for backing up my "gut" feeling and let me know when I can send all my tax paperwork over!