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View Full Version : BYU Swim Camp - No racers (briefs) allowed!



Dennis Tesch
June 9th, 2008, 11:50 AM
I've been giggling about this all morning! Many of the young swimmers from my pool are attending the BYU swim camps starting this week. One of the young guys who always wears brief (racer) style swim suits told me that he isn't allowed to where them at the camp. I pulled up the info on the camp and the info packet does say "no Speedos or bikini briefs are allowed for male participants". I'm sorry, but jammers are no less revealing than briefs! If anything they are more so - in my opinion. I can understand a modest dress code at BYU, but swimmers are so use to seeing each other in these types of suits. I would love to know the thinking behind this dress code? :lmao:

Dolphin 2
June 9th, 2008, 12:05 PM
I don't know why anyone would object to briefs on the basis that they are not "modest". Is BYU a "conservative" Bible Belt institution? :lolup:

As I've mentioned before, jammers are actually MORE revealing than briefs. Jammers (and tech suits) are very tight fitting and I've always noticed that they always have that "lump between the legs" appearance. :bolt:

Dolphin 2

tjburk
June 9th, 2008, 12:08 PM
BYU is a Mormon Institutuion.....supposed to be very modest.....

Dennis Tesch
June 9th, 2008, 12:15 PM
Another thought accured to me about this brief thing at BYU. How is it that before jammers where invented did BYU have any boy swimmers at their camps. Did they have to wear the big board shorts? No - they allowed briefs in years past, but some how they have become dress code breakers.....

aquageek
June 9th, 2008, 12:22 PM
I wonder if they are making the girls wear correctly sized swim suits or if they will be able to wear them about 4 sizes too small like the teen girls seem to do at our club. Maybe the male brief ban is in response to that.

Dolphin 2
June 9th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Another thought accured to me about this brief thing at BYU. How is it that before jammers where invented did BYU have any boy swimmers at their camps. Did they have to wear the big board shorts? No - they allowed briefs in years past, but some how they have become dress code breakers.....

The issue of modesty just doesn't cut it and I'm kinda wondering if the suit makers are actually "coaching" the administrators behind the scene to make swimmers use the more expensive suits in lieu of briefs.

It's to the obvious advantage of the suit makers to have schools drop the $15 to $20 briefs in place of the more expensive models.

As with FINA, I know that the superintendents of some of the school districts In California are in fact being approached by suit makers to use their brand at every campus pool in lieu of the makers giving them campaign "contributions".

There are a lot of "Rats hiding in the wood pile" here.

Dolphin 2

knelson
June 9th, 2008, 01:08 PM
Hey, at least Mormons don't need to wear their special underwear while swimming.

SwimStud
June 9th, 2008, 01:13 PM
Hey, at least Mormons don't need to wear their special underwear while swimming.

hmmm BYU..... Bathe in Your Undies ???

:D

FindingMyInnerFish
June 9th, 2008, 01:21 PM
I suppose they'll love the full-body suits, then, although not b/c of the hydrodynamic aspects of them..... ;)

aquageek
June 9th, 2008, 01:29 PM
Hey, at least Mormons don't need to wear their special underwear while swimming.

It's funny cause my first thought is that the jammer does closely resemble the temple undergarment.

poolraat
June 9th, 2008, 01:30 PM
It's funny cause my first thought is that the jammer does closely resemble the temple undergarment.


Half of it anyway.

knelson
June 9th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Right, I thought it went up over the chest, too, though I'm no expert.

Anyway, that is a pretty goofy rule since, as Dennis pointed out, I'm sure briefs were perfectly acceptable in years past.

poolraat
June 9th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Right, I thought it went up over the chest, too, though I'm no expert.

Anyway, that is a pretty goofy rule since, as Dennis pointed out, I'm sure briefs were perfectly acceptable in years past.


I was on the track team at BYU in the early 70's. I can still remember those ridiculous PE uniforms the women had to wear.

scyfreestyler
June 9th, 2008, 01:50 PM
Deleted...unfair comment.

SwimStud
June 9th, 2008, 01:52 PM
I was on the track team at BYU in the early 70's. I can still remember those ridiculous PE uniforms the women had to wear.

With you lurking about I'd say it was more of a preventative measure versus a uniform...:rofl:

BYU-Amateur
June 10th, 2008, 02:36 PM
I've been giggling about this all morning! Many of the young swimmers from my pool are attending the BYU swim camps starting this week. One of the young guys who always wears brief (racer) style swim suits told me that he isn't allowed to where them at the camp. I pulled up the info on the camp and the info packet does say "no Speedos or bikini briefs are allowed for male participants". I'm sorry, but jammers are no less revealing than briefs! If anything they are more so - in my opinion. I can understand a modest dress code at BYU, but swimmers are so use to seeing each other in these types of suits. I would love to know the thinking behind this dress code? :lmao:

It's a dress code thing for everyone. Up until this last year, I think they made everyone wear BYU issue swim-trunks, and wouldn't even allow people with board shorts until the last five years.

Evidently the 2" of fabric somehow spells the difference between moral depravity and modesty.

I don't get it. The BYU swim team still wears briefs (saw them this morning with them on). More of BYU's "theocratic" red-tape, I guess. It's okay for the swim team, but the rest of the world just can't be trusted to wear them.

swimshark
June 10th, 2008, 03:21 PM
It's a dress code thing for everyone. Up until this last year, I think they made everyone wear BYU issue swim-trunks, and wouldn't even allow people with board shorts until the last five years.

Evidently the 2" of fabric somehow spells the difference between moral depravity and modesty.

I don't get it. The BYU swim team still wears briefs (saw them this morning with them on). More of BYU's "theocratic" red-tape, I guess. It's okay for the swim team, but the rest of the world just can't be trusted to wear them.

Hm.. the BYU football players I was in the hot tub with years ago had on trunks.

Dolphin 2
June 10th, 2008, 05:03 PM
It's a dress code thing for everyone. Up until this last year, I think they made everyone wear BYU issue swim-trunks, and wouldn't even allow people with board shorts until the last five years.

Evidently the 2" of fabric somehow spells the difference between moral depravity and modesty.

I don't get it. The BYU swim team still wears briefs (saw them this morning with them on). More of BYU's "theocratic" red-tape, I guess. It's okay for the swim team, but the rest of the world just can't be trusted to wear them.

Hey BYU -Amateur
It's really good news to hear that the swim team still wears those good ole briefs!!!

As the old saying goes: "Great minds think alike" and it looks like the BYU Swimming Dept. and I may have something in common afterall!!! :groovy:

I hope they change the rules to allow outsiders to wear 'em also.

Dolphin 2

Kurt Dickson
June 10th, 2008, 09:21 PM
I've been giggling about this all morning! Many of the young swimmers from my pool are attending the BYU swim camps starting this week. One of the young guys who always wears brief (racer) style swim suits told me that he isn't allowed to where them at the camp. I pulled up the info on the camp and the info packet does say "no Speedos or bikini briefs are allowed for male participants". I'm sorry, but jammers are no less revealing than briefs! If anything they are more so - in my opinion. I can understand a modest dress code at BYU, but swimmers are so use to seeing each other in these types of suits. I would love to know the thinking behind this dress code? :lmao:
Dennis,
You have been living and swimming in Utah for at least 20 plus years. Are you telling me you still don't understand the Mormon culture? As a former BYU swimmer, I will admit there are some inconsistencies with the dress code (swimmers were the only ones allowed to wear non-approved speedos rather than "black beauties" as they were called back in the day). The idea is more coverage is generally more modest and is generally preferred. BYU is a private university and has every right to make any regulations it wants and your swimmers have the right to choose the closer, more convenient, University of Utah. I suspect their parents are choosing a swim camp based partly on environment otherwise they would send them to University of Texas or other high power program.

Dennis Tesch
June 11th, 2008, 09:32 AM
Kurt..... I do understand the culture - that is what is making me giggle about the whole brief (dress code) issue. I'm just waiting for BYU, a private institution, to make each participant wear the new LZR or Tracer full body to make things more modest. Instead of a camp costing $400 to $600, it will cost well over a $1,000. This should bring in the participants!!!

Kurt, I've seen you in the results lately, maybe we'll meet up in the pool again someday. Take care....

Kurt Dickson
June 11th, 2008, 11:43 AM
Modesty most probably can be arranged at less than the $500 dollar price tag of high-tech LZR fabric.

The suits that the PE department issued while I was there were like a trunk (and could not have cost more than 5 dollars). The swimmers actually used them on occasion for drag suits.

I know I'm an unenlightened, knuckle-dragging, neanderthal (at least that was what I've been called on previous posts), but I'm not sure more modesty is such a bad thing. There are many girls on my daughter's swim team that dress more like they are trying to get a date than train.

As far a participants, there have got to be hundreds of swim camps in the country. As far as I know, BYU sells out consistently because the parents that pay for the camp are trying to provide an exposure beyond swimming that might make their children mature in other ways.

Paul Smith
June 11th, 2008, 11:51 AM
Kurt, I've seen you in the results lately, maybe we'll meet up in the pool again someday. Take care....

He'll be in Portland with Team AZ Dennis so you've got your chance...and by the way he's swimming VERY fast these days...even without the wetsuits that some of us use!

Dennis Tesch
June 11th, 2008, 01:23 PM
Wish I could make Portland:doh: I'm already traveling too much this summer and Portland will break the bank.

Kurt I hope you don't think I'm saying BYU policy is wrong or should be changed. I think the people at BYU have every right to make their rules as they see fit. I'm just amused at how the line between what is considered modest and what causes sinful thoughts can be so grey and changeable. Growing up in an LDS family I do understand the LDS point of view. I'm just truely amazed that BYU even has a swim team and holds camps. There is just too much temptation with all those skin tight suits walking and swimming around. I'm sure that there is great deal more sinning going on at other universities and swim camps... beware of the brief (racer) swim suit!!! It is all down hill from there.

Good luck in Portland Kurt!!!

Dolphin 2
June 11th, 2008, 01:48 PM
I don’t see why BYU (or any other college or university) should take issue about modesty in swimwear. Attempting to implement a modesty policy in swimwear is just an illusory and silly approach to preventing moral decadence much like the taboos againsts excessive skin exposure seen in the Mid East. :shakeshead:

When it comes to swimming, the ordinary commercial off-the-shelf briefs (made by Speedo, Nike, Adidas, etc. for the past 45 years) have been deemed socially acceptable without the interference of wearing excess clothing in the water. :drink:

Just in case the administrators at BYU may be considering outlawing briefs, maybe the swimmers could send them one of those 1950’s style extortion/ransom notes: :rant3:

Don’t even think of issuing a ban on Briefs or we will come over and let the air out of all your tires!!! :eek:

Happy swimming -

Dolphin 2

scyfreestyler
June 11th, 2008, 01:59 PM
If you don't like the policy, don't send your children there. There is not much else to be said really.

aquageek
June 11th, 2008, 02:29 PM
dolphin 2 - ironically your insistence on imposing your morality on BYU really isn't any different than them imposing their morality on people who voluntarily attend their private camps. Maybe you and BYU can just accept each other and tolerate differences.

jim clemmons
June 11th, 2008, 03:05 PM
dolphin 2 - ironically your insistence on imposing your morality on BYU really isn't any different than them imposing their morality on people who voluntarily attend their private camps. Maybe you and BYU can just accept each other and tolerate differences.

Doubtful.

Kurt Dickson
June 11th, 2008, 03:07 PM
[QUOTE=Dolphin 2;136524]I don’t see why BYU (or any other college or university) should take issue about modesty in swimwear. Attempting to implement a modesty policy in swimwear is just an illusory and silly approach to preventing moral decadence much like the taboos againsts excessive skin exposure seen in the Mid East. :shakeshead:

When it comes to swimming, the ordinary commercial off-the-shelf briefs (made by Speedo, Nike, Adidas, etc. for the past 45 years) have been deemed socially acceptable without the interference of wearing excess clothing in the water. :drink:

I don't know: Which is more attractive Elle MacPherson (dating myself) in one of those skimpy SI numbers with just her arms covering her bodacious ta tas or Elle MacPherson in full middle eastern garb? For me, I may not even notice the second person and continue walking my pig (don't imply I am advocating such cumbersome fashion or the oppressive society that may go with it).

If "socially acceptable" is your litmus test for societal greatness, just turn on MTV (my daughter already has it on) and watch "My super sweet 16" or "the Hills" and see our miserable, and yet socially acceptable, future.

BYU policy may be silly and illusory, but is an approach to at least a perceived immorality problem. If you look at the majority of today's youth and like and are impressed by what you see, then by all means, let us stay the course.

BTW, Paul the Portland thing was supposed to be on the down-low. I don't need any disgruntled forumites pouring raw sewage in my lane during my swims (my swims will be stinky enough).

mctrusty
June 11th, 2008, 03:12 PM
If "socially acceptable" is your litmus test for societal greatness, just turn on MTV (my daughter already has it on) and watch "My super sweet 16" or "the Hills" and see our miserable, and yet socially acceptable, future.



Oh god, please no.

The Fortress
June 11th, 2008, 03:12 PM
I think the neanderthal, er, I mean Kurt, has a point here. I'm sick of seeing middle school girls in padded push up bras and shorts with one inch inseams or "juicy" stamped on their butt.

You can add "America's Next Top Model" to the list of nauseating TV.

aquageek
June 11th, 2008, 03:16 PM
I have a friend who's 12 and 14 year old daughters cut their panties up to be like thongs to see what it is like. Maybe BYU is on to something here. Viva la granny panties!

Paul Smith
June 11th, 2008, 03:27 PM
BTW, Paul the Portland thing was supposed to be on the down-low. I don't need any disgruntled forumites pouring raw sewage in my lane during my swims (my swims will be stinky enough).

Sorry for the "outing"...but to give you hope I survived Austin so maybe you'll sneak thru...I did have to keep my eye on Fort however, when we were in the hospitality tent or the beer garden I made sure i didn't leave anything within her tiny reach!

Dolphin 2
June 11th, 2008, 04:45 PM
[QUOTE=Dolphin 2;136524]I don’t see why BYU (or any other college or university) should take issue about modesty in swimwear. Attempting to implement a modesty policy in swimwear is just an illusory and silly approach to preventing moral decadence much like the taboos againsts excessive skin exposure seen in the Mid East. :shakeshead:

When it comes to swimming, the ordinary commercial off-the-shelf briefs (made by Speedo, Nike, Adidas, etc. for the past 45 years) have been deemed socially acceptable without the interference of wearing excess clothing in the water. :drink:

I don't know: Which is more attractive Elle MacPherson (dating myself) in one of those skimpy SI numbers with just her arms covering her bodacious ta tas or Elle MacPherson in full middle eastern garb? For me, I may not even notice the second person and continue walking my pig (don't imply I am advocating such cumbersome fashion or the oppressive society that may go with it).

If "socially acceptable" is your litmus test for societal greatness, just turn on MTV (my daughter already has it on) and watch "My super sweet 16" or "the Hills" and see our miserable, and yet socially acceptable, future.

BYU policy may be silly and illusory, but is an approach to at least a perceived immorality problem. If you look at the majority of today's youth and like and are impressed by what you see, then by all means, let us stay the course.

BTW, Paul the Portland thing was supposed to be on the down-low. I don't need any disgruntled forumites pouring raw sewage in my lane during my swims (my swims will be stinky enough).

Hey Kurt
For ages, the Mid East has had a strict policy on supposedly "revealing" styles of clothing and it has accomplished absolutely nothing in terms of making people's behavior any more socially acceptable. Saudi Arabia has strict standards for casual/revealing clothing and public morality, but that didn't prevent them from becoming a breeding ground for Al Queda did it? :mad:

Furthermore, swimmer's briefs were introduced (by Adolf Kiefer) for maximizing comfort and freedom in the water and they have been around for almost 50 years without creating a morality problem. So why would anyone even considering them as being a "spark that might ignite a moral conflagration" these days? :dunno:

This kind of paranoid thinking is as bad as the problem that it is purportedly trying to fix. In fact, the current morality problems in the U.S. (and the rest of the world for that matter) are way beyond the control of a dress code and those who think banning swimwear is a starting place for fixing problem are barking up the wrong tree. :shakeshead:

My advice to the adminsitrators at BYU (and any other institution that might be concerned that minimal swimwear might be contributing to societal decadence), just "let the cookies fall where they may" and let the guys and girls wear commercial off-the-store-shelf briefs and bikinis.

Because when reality finally hits, their approach of prohibition won't make a "Flatulation in Hell's worth of difference". :frustrated:

Dolphin 2

aquageek
June 11th, 2008, 05:16 PM
Good grief, give it a break already. It's a dang private swim camp. Don't go if you don't like it, respect their rights to do what they want, just as we (sort of) respect your right to give us all some sort of social lesson on mid-east garb and sexuality.

I don't believe BYU is asking for your advice. They tend to do things as they see fit in their own ways.

jim clemmons
June 11th, 2008, 05:24 PM
Good grief, give it a break already. It's a dang private swim camp. Don't go if you don't like it, respect their rights to do what they want, just as we (sort of) respect your right to give us all some sort of social lesson on mid-east garb and sexuality.

I don't believe BYU is asking for your advice. They tend to do things as they see fit in their own ways.

Yes, and vote Libertarian.

Sam Perry
June 12th, 2008, 10:28 AM
Viva la granny panties!

Ok, now that's funny.

Sam Perry
June 12th, 2008, 10:29 AM
Yes, and vote Libertarian.

Or be glad Mitt Romney lost the primary.

Sam Perry
June 12th, 2008, 10:31 AM
[QUOTE=Dolphin 2;136524]
BTW, Paul the Portland thing was supposed to be on the down-low. I don't need any disgruntled forumites pouring raw sewage in my lane during my swims (my swims will be stinky enough).

No backstroke or I will fill your lane with raw sewage! Stick to the distance events where you belong. I heard you out touched Mr. Smith last weekend at Lake Pleasant (without a wetsuit to boot), so you know where you belong.

Dolphin 2
June 12th, 2008, 11:32 AM
Here’s the latest and greatest news on how a ban on bikinis and Speedos at the public pool in the city of Kanab, Utah bit the dust only a few months after being enacted: :applaud:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/06/12/national/a045437D81.DTL&tsp=1

As they say in France: “Viva a la Speedos and bikinis”!!! :banana:

Happy swimming

Dolphin 2

aquageek
June 12th, 2008, 12:00 PM
As they say in France: “Viva a la Speedos and bikinis”!!! :banana:

Happy swimming

Dolphin 2

Too bad they don't viva the deodorant. How bad is your argument when you invoke the French? What's next, Canadians? Aren't they the same thing anyway,

Dolphin 2
June 12th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Too bad they don't viva the deodorant. How bad is your argument when you invoke the French? What's next, Canadians? Aren't they the same thing anyway,

Hey Aquageek:
France’s lack of a daily shower/bathing regime is nothing more than a stereotypical myth.

In reality, they’ve even got “bidets” or "douches" in their bathrooms (in addition to just plain old Scott Tissue) as part of their personal hygiene. In addition to a pre-swim shower, that makes their pools even more cleaner and sanitary! :agree:

However you’ve really gotta hand it to the French when it comes to energy independence. They’ve got high speed electric trains running on nuclear power while the U.S. transportation system is stuck in a rut and $5/Gallon gas is just around the corner. :notworking:

Dolphin 2

ALM
June 12th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Here’s the latest and greatest news on how a ban on bikinis and Speedos at the public pool in the city of Kanab, Utah bit the dust only a few months after being enacted: :applaud:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/06/12/national/a045437D81.DTL&tsp=1




I liked how the pool is named the "Cowboy Water'n Hole"...

And read this excerpt:

"The restrictions were not popular, even in the community where the council passed a resolution in 2006 to favor the 'natural family' consisting of a working husband, a stay-at-home wife and a 'full quiver of children.'"

The Fortress
June 12th, 2008, 12:42 PM
"The restrictions were not popular, even in the community where the council passed a resolution in 2006 to favor the 'natural family' consisting of a working husband, a stay-at-home wife and a 'full quiver of children.'"


Gag. Puke.

This is one reason I need to live in a fairly urban setting.

aquageek
June 12th, 2008, 12:47 PM
First, it was the middle east sexuality now it's the bathing and energy habits of the French. Viva la boredom!

SwimStud
June 12th, 2008, 01:13 PM
I liked how the pool is named the "Cowboy Water'n Hole"...

And read this excerpt:

"The restrictions were not popular, even in the community where the council passed a resolution in 2006 to favor the 'natural family' consisting of a working husband, a stay-at-home wife and a 'full quiver of children.'"

WHAT? THis is unfair! What about my situation?

Working wife, stay at home (watching European Championships and going swimming) husband, with 2 kids? No bibles in my house either...ack guess I am doomed!

david.margrave
June 12th, 2008, 01:15 PM
He'll be in Portland with Team AZ Dennis so you've got your chance...and by the way he's swimming VERY fast these days...even without the wetsuits that some of us use!

It looks like we'll get to see a Dickson/Kays 1500m free grudge match.

scyfreestyler
June 12th, 2008, 01:24 PM
WHAT? THis is unfair! What about my situation?

Working wife, stay at home (watching European Championships and going swimming) husband, with 2 kids? No bibles in my house either...ack guess I am doomed!


Yes, doomed to sanity. ;)

poolraat
June 12th, 2008, 02:07 PM
You are going to burn, Rich. ROFLMAO


.....No bibles in my house either...ack guess I am doomed!

Kurt Dickson
June 12th, 2008, 05:02 PM
A few comments:
Geek: Granny panties make me hot.
Sam: Don’t mess with my boy, Mitt.
David, Sam and others: It does not matter what I enter at nationals I will be racing for 4th (Chris S and ?you in Back and Shaffer, Irwin, and others in distance).
Dolphin: A failed ban at a public swim pool in a city of 20 total people (and only known for about every western ever created) is not an argument against continuing to try--I mean have you gone to a public pool? 99% of attendees should not be sporting a bikini and the one that could pull it off just cannot make up for the visual trauma (i.e. bleeding retinas) I endure with the others (someone please tell me where a 300 lb woman with a styrofoam noodle between her legs gets that kind of self-esteem).
Also, french people are indeed hygienically challenged. Their government is ridiculous and socialized medicine is a crock.:bitching:

ALM
June 12th, 2008, 05:34 PM
A few comments:
Geek: Granny panties make me hot.

Speaking of Granny panties...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/comics/babyblues.html

Select the comic from June 12th.

gull
June 12th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Their government is ridiculous and socialized medicine is a crock.

Agreed, but the President's wife, Carla Bruni-Sarkozy, is pretty hot (with or without a bikini).

Sam Perry
June 12th, 2008, 06:58 PM
Agreed, but the President's wife, Carla Bruni-Sarkozy, is pretty hot (with or without a bikini).

I bet she doesn't wear granny panties.

SwimStud
June 12th, 2008, 07:14 PM
I bet she doesn't wear any panties.

FIXED

Sam Perry
June 12th, 2008, 07:25 PM
FIXED

Nice..... Now you have my imagination running, thanks a lot.:D

gull
June 12th, 2008, 07:57 PM
I bet she doesn't wear granny panties.

She didn't in the photo that was auctioned off at Christie's for $91,000.

Dennis Tesch
June 13th, 2008, 12:35 PM
I'm amazed that a thread on briefs at BYU can go all the way to granny panties, french politics/medicine, and Kanab Utah :eek: :applaud:

Leonard Jansen
June 13th, 2008, 02:30 PM
A few comments:
Geek: Granny panties make me hot.


Then don't wear them. Besides, is it really worth getting heat rash and chafing to indulge your fetish?

-LBJ

Dennis Tesch
June 16th, 2008, 01:49 PM
FYI - My swimmers returned from the camp last week and the rule regarding briefs wasn't followed. The coaches told my swimmers that they could where briefs!!! I'm guessing that what the school prints as rules and what really goes on are two different things.

ALM
June 16th, 2008, 02:06 PM
I'm guessing that what the school prints as rules and what really goes on are two different things.

Isn't this true at EVERY college in the U.S.? :)

Kurt Dickson
June 16th, 2008, 06:44 PM
FYI - My swimmers returned from the camp last week and the rule regarding briefs wasn't followed. The coaches told my swimmers that they could where briefs!!! I'm guessing that what the school prints as rules and what really goes on are two different things.

Be certain Powers and Crump (BYU coaches) would have thrown the book at them if they tried to wear their "briefs" in thong fashion like you used to sport (kidding).

As far as I know policy has not changed for general student body (only PE issue in the pool).

PArob83
June 17th, 2008, 04:35 AM
FYI - My swimmers returned from the camp last week and the rule regarding briefs wasn't followed. The coaches told my swimmers that they could where briefs!!! I'm guessing that what the school prints as rules and what really goes on are two different things.

Good to hear there is some sense in people. just kinda wonder how many actually used the freedom they were not expecting.

Dolphin 2
June 17th, 2008, 11:09 AM
FYI - My swimmers returned from the camp last week and the rule regarding briefs wasn't followed. The coaches told my swimmers that they could where briefs!!! I'm guessing that what the school prints as rules and what really goes on are two different things.

Glad to hear that they didn't actually enforce the ban and briefs were still allowed afterall!!!

I suspect that in the past, someone may have tried to wear a “thong” style suit or cut the lining out of a regular brief to make it almost transparent. The fact is that any suit (brief, jammer, or technical) can be “modified” to the point of being obnoxious. :sad:

My advice to students is don’t “push the envelope” by doing something totally bizarre that might cause the administrators to clamp down and impose an across the board ban any suit they think is not modest. Remember- the poor judgment of a few students could have the effect of ruining the experience for everyone else on the team! :cry:

As they say in France (and elsewhere) “Viva a la Speedo”! :groovy:

Happy swimming ;)

Dolphin 2

aquageek
June 17th, 2008, 11:33 AM
Remember- the poor judgment of a few students could have the effect of ruining the experience for everyone else on the team!

Oh, the irony. Could the same not be said for those who want to ban tech suits yet have never even swam in one?

Dolphin 2
June 17th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Oh, the irony. Could the same not be said for those who want to ban tech suits yet have never even swam in one?

Hey Aquageek
I haven’t tried mud wrestling either, however I don’t need to actually do it to know what it would be like: :eek:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79823494@N00/645772737/

Incidentally, if I had a choice between swimming in an LZR VS mud wrestling I don't know which would be worse, so I’d have to flip a coin. :dunno:

Heads - it's the LZR. Tails -it's the mud. :lmao:

Dolphin 2

aquageek
June 17th, 2008, 03:07 PM
I'm impressed that you haven't let your total lack of experience or knowledge on the subject interefere with your opinions.

Ripple
June 17th, 2008, 07:23 PM
...I suspect that in the past, someone may have tried to wear a “thong” style suit...
Dolphin 2

Whath wrong with thongth? Thure, they take thome getting uthed to, but thath true of any thwimthuit.
(Thorry, couldn't rethitht)

The Fortress
June 17th, 2008, 07:42 PM
double post ... deleted

The Fortress
June 17th, 2008, 07:44 PM
I haven’t tried mud wrestling either, however I don’t need to actually do it to know what it would be like: :eek:


It's not clear you've tried swimming either. Not sure taking swimming in PE qualifies you to say anything on the issue. How can anyone take your extreme pronouncements even remotely seriously if you don't even swim competitively and haven't even tried race in a tech suit? :shakeshead: :rolleyes: :dunno: I don't tell noodlers what kind of equipment to use ...

3strokes
June 18th, 2008, 11:59 AM
Hey Aquageek
I haven’t tried mud wrestling either, however I don’t need to actually do it to know what it would be like: :eek:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79823494@N00/645772737/

Incidentally, if I had a choice between swimming in an LZR VS mud wrestling I don't know which would be worse, so I’d have to flip a coin. :dunno:

Heads - it's the LZR. Tails -it's the mud. :lmao:

Dolphin 2

OK, but howzabout "Coed" mud wrestling? (No body suits; just briefs).

3strokes
June 18th, 2008, 12:01 PM
It's not clear you've tried swimming either. ................. :shakeshead: :rolleyes: :dunno: I don't tell noodlers what kind of equipment to use ...

Fort
Please tell us that Speedo or TYR are NOT coming up with LZR or (whatever) noodles.

Dolphin 2
June 18th, 2008, 03:28 PM
It's not clear you've tried swimming either. Not sure taking swimming in PE qualifies you to say anything on the issue. How can anyone take your extreme pronouncements even remotely seriously if you don't even swim competitively and haven't even tried race in a tech suit? :shakeshead: :rolleyes: :dunno: I don't tell noodlers what kind of equipment to use ...

Hey Fortress
Just for your clarification, my PE teacher was also the coach for the Hollywood High School’s varsity swim team in 1969. He often commented about how I had an affection for being in the water and thought that I and a few others in the class were very good candidates for the team and we should at least try it out.

However, my family was near the bottom of the socio-economic ladder in Los Angeles and I had absolutely no interest in becoming an athlete or even continuing with high school either. So I finally dropped out in the 11Th grade to take a job with an elevator contractor -which is part of my trade & profession to this day.

Reflecting back on my HS swimming experiences, my PE teacher/coach and I became very good friends and he was rather fascinated with my personal introspection of how I had adapted to the water. Today, I often regret that I was not able to remain in school and take up his offer to help me become a competitive swimmer (and even possibly become a commercial scuba diver instead of an elevator contractor!!!). :(

When it comes to swimming (or any other athletic activity), everyone is "Qualified" on what is right for their own body (and mind).

The choice in suits is a very personal thing and although tech suits may be right for some, I am in fact "Qualified" from over 50 years of experience with purely recreational aquatics (such as lap swimming, open water, scuba & exploration diving, and some other pretty scary underwater stuff) to know they would definitely NOT be right for me at all. :2cents:

California Dolphin

The Fortress
June 18th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Big whoop. My son has a natural feel for the water, but currently isn't a competitive swimmer. He would never tell me what suit I should wear at masters meets.

You certainly can decide what is right for YOU, but last time I checked you were lecturing competitive masters swimmers and attempting to ban our suits. Utterly unqualified to do that. :2cents:

Dolphin 2
June 18th, 2008, 04:57 PM
Big whoop. My son has a natural feel for the water, but currently isn't a competitive swimmer. He would never tell me what suit I should wear at masters meets.

You certainly can decide what is right for YOU, but last time I checked you were lecturing competitive masters swimmers and attempting to ban our suits. Utterly unqualified to do that. :2cents:

Hey Fortress
I (and others) are not lecturing competitive masters swimmers about what suits they should (or should not) be wearing. :whiteflag:

The main issue with their/my criticism seems to be how mechanized the sport has become and there is a serious issue about whether (or not) the achievements (the repeatedly broken WRs) made while using them should be considered legitimate. :dunno:

However, personally I am quite amused with the craze that tech suits have created and the extremes people will go to (like blowing a ¼ of their weekly paycheck) to get their hands on one. In fact, everytime I read another post about tech suits on the USMS board, I can feel the horns growing out of the top of my head as I fire off another barrage of snide comments about Speedo, Tyr, Nike, etc!!! :joker:

In perspective, the tech suit craze is something that will probably go down in history with the Dot Com bust, the (now past) demand for SUVs, or the sub prime fiasco. :violin:

Sooner or later, the tech suit thing is going to fall apart like a bag of wet garbage and when the history book is finally written, the only real winners will be the suit makers who've made a ton of $$$ off the whole mess. :joker:

Dolphin 2

aquageek
June 18th, 2008, 05:19 PM
Wow - not a swimmer, no competitive background, never been in the water in one, yet fully qualified to preach to us about what folks should wear.

FYI - you have zero history in sports to support your assertion the tech suit craze will go away. It hasn't gone away in a single other sport. Golf, tennis, basketball, cycling, baseball, etc have all had a major surge in technology in the last 25 years and it hasn't done anything but get stronger and stronger. Swimming is just the newest sport to the game, and not really new at all, well over a decade now. Sports and technology are now as coupled as, well, Fort and her pimped out Dodge Caravan XCH (extra cup holders).

The Fortress
June 18th, 2008, 07:18 PM
Hey Fortress
I (and others) are not lecturing competitive masters swimmers about what suits they should (or should not) be wearing. :whiteflag:

The main issue with their/my criticism seems to be how mechanized the sport has become and there is a serious issue about whether (or not) the achievements (the repeatedly broken WRs) made while using them should be considered legitimate. :dunno:

However, personally I am quite amused with the craze that tech suits have created and the extremes people will go to (like blowing a ¼ of their weekly paycheck) to get their hands on one. In fact, everytime I read another post about tech suits on the USMS board, I can feel the horns growing out of the top of my head as I fire off another barrage of snide comments about Speedo, Tyr, Nike, etc!!! :joker:

In perspective, the tech suit craze is something that will probably go down in history with the Dot Com bust, the (now past) demand for SUVs, or the sub prime fiasco. :violin:

Sooner or later, the tech suit thing is going to fall apart like a bag of wet garbage and when the history book is finally written, the only real winners will be the suit makers who've made a ton of $$$ off the whole mess. :joker:

Dolphin 2

If you don't vote, don't complain.

Just say no to minivans, Geek. It's worked like a charm for me.

Dolphin 2
June 19th, 2008, 12:35 PM
Wow - not a swimmer, no competitive background, never been in the water in one, yet fully qualified to preach to us about what folks should wear.

FYI - you have zero history in sports to support your assertion the tech suit craze will go away. It hasn't gone away in a single other sport. Golf, tennis, basketball, cycling, baseball, etc have all had a major surge in technology in the last 25 years and it hasn't done anything but get stronger and stronger. Swimming is just the newest sport to the game, and not really new at all, well over a decade now. Sports and technology are now as coupled as, well, Fort and her pimped out Dodge Caravan XCH (extra cup holders).

Hey Aquageek
Seems that using the word “Technology” to describe a FastskinII or an LZR is carrying things a wee bit to the extreme.

A so called swimmer’s “Tech Suit” is just a glorified (and highly expensive) reinvention of the girdle or the corset. I’ve looked up the words girdle and corset in the dictionary and neither of the definitions refer to them as being form of “Technology”. :shakeshead:

Girdle:
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/girdle

Corset:
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/corset;_ylt=Arav_jV8r9Ng7HJrCvkkR2gZvskF

However, if there is a new development that can enable someone with a Bob or Barbara Beerbelly physique to swim faster, then I am certain that most people would humorously refer to it as a form of "technology". :agree:

Dolphin 2

aquageek
June 19th, 2008, 12:43 PM
It's almost like shooting fish in a barrel when you make another uneducated statement like the one above. If you don't think the materials, innovation (like it or not), engineering and investment in these are technology, well then you don't really understand technology. Then again, you don't swim competitively and have never been in one of these suits in the water.

Dolphin 2
June 19th, 2008, 02:04 PM
It's almost like shooting fish in a barrel when you make another uneducated statement like the one above. If you don't think the materials, innovation (like it or not), engineering and investment in these are technology, well then you don't really understand technology. Then again, you don't swim competitively and have never been in one of these suits in the water.

Hey Aquageek
The suit makers “research” has already been known for over 30 years and it’s no revelation that any type of body compression suit (or other items such as foot or hand fins) can make a any person a faster swimmer. :snore:

Although the actual design and manufacturing equipment used to produce these suits (such as computer aided drafting, robotic cutting, and laser fabric bonding) is a technology itself, the end product is just another form of garment and its final application to swimming does not constitute a technological innovation. :snore:

In fact, Toto of Japan produces toilets in a technologically advanced factory, however that in itself doesn’t make their toilets a new form of technology (and people aren't silly enough to run out and spend over $500 on one of them either!!!). :lmao:

However, the suit makers main investment has mostly been in giving FINA a load of $$$ in exchange for relaxing (if not virtually dumping) the rules regarding mechanized swimming enhancements. If you don’t believe this is true, what was the motivation for FINA to change the rules (that were in place for decades) from a non-mechanized to a mechanized approach? :notworking:

As the old saying goes "Where there's smoke, there's fire". :agree:

Dolphin 2

aquageek
June 19th, 2008, 02:23 PM
Please cite your sources on the money speedo gave FINA. I don't want to hear another story out of you about how you just know, like how you just know about swimming despite not being a swimmer. Name the source, quote the figure.

And, it's pretty much fitting that you use a toilet manufacturer in Japan to speak to swim suits. At least we know the crapper is your frame of reference.

Using your logic, powered flight wasn't a technological advance since Da Vinci envisioned it hundreds of years ago. So, just to clarify your argument, using state of the art technology to produce a state of the art product is not a technological advance?

The Fortress
June 19th, 2008, 02:31 PM
However, if there is a new development that can enable someone with a Bob or Barbra Beerbelly physique to swim faster, then I am certain that most people would humorously refer to it as a form of "technology". [/B]

I wasn't aware we had any Bob or Barbara Beerbellies pouring their huge guts into expensive fastskins on this forum. I thought we were swimmers looking to improve.

And perhaps you should look up "logic" in the dictionary. I don't see any of that in your posts. Just nasty and misplaced judgment.

pwolf66
June 19th, 2008, 03:03 PM
The main issue with their/my criticism seems to be how mechanized the sport has become and there is a serious issue about whether (or not) the achievements (the repeatedly broken WRs) made while using them should be considered legitimate. :dunno:

In what defintion of the word 'Mechanical' are you using this word?

Pertaining to, governed by, or in accordance with,
mechanics, or the laws of motion; pertaining to the
quantitative relations of force and matter, as
distinguished from mental, vital, chemical, etc.; as,
mechanical principles; a mechanical theory; mechanical
deposits.

2. Of or pertaining to a machine or to machinery or tools;
made or formed by a machine or with tools; as, mechanical
precision; mechanical products.

We have also divers mechanical arts. --Bacon.

3. Done as if by a machine; uninfluenced by will or emotion;
proceeding automatically, or by habit, without special
intention or reflection; as, mechanical singing;
mechanical verses; mechanical service.

4. Made and operated by interaction of forces without a
directing intelligence; as, a mechanical universe.

5. Obtained by trial, by measurements, etc.; approximate;
empirical. See the 2d Note under Geometric (http://dictionary.die.net/geometric).


I'm sorry, but none of those definitions apply to a swim suit. Unless you are referring to a diving suit, such as this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_diving_suit


But I have yet to see that worn in a swimming competition.


I am continually amazed at your prolific use of glittering generalities and vauge sweeping statements. You definately have a skill.

And to repeat what others have asked. What's it to you? You don't compete, so you are not being 'cheated' by others who choose to wear tech suits, you're not being harmed economically (unless there is a hidden link between swim suits and elevators that I don't see) or some rich kid wearing a tech suit has beaten one of your children out for a scholarship, resources that are vital to the human race are not being diverted to swim suit R&D and manufacture. So again, WHAT'S THE BIG FREAKIN DEAL???

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I think I get it now. You just love to argue endlessly about things that do not directly affect you.

You're a Troll. Plain and simple.

It's now much clearer.

Paul (Owner of a $58.00 Speedo Fast Skin 1 bought from Ebay)

Jazz Hands
June 19th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I think I get it now. You just love to argue endlessly about things that do not directly affect you.

Yeah.

Dolphin 2, I'm not a fan of tech suits (even though I've been known to wear them), but your arguments are tactless and pointless.

aquageek
June 19th, 2008, 03:15 PM
This seemingly endless recent streak of JH and I agreeing needs to stop. Bad enough when I went over to the dark side and joined Fort, but this is too much.

pwolf66
June 19th, 2008, 03:18 PM
This seemingly endless recent streak of JH and I agreeing needs to stop. Bad enough when I went over to the dark side and joined Fort, but this is too much.

How do you think I feel? Agreeing with Geek? I need Brain Floss(tm)

Dolphin 2
June 19th, 2008, 03:55 PM
Hey Pwolf66
Your quote: “You're a Troll. Plain and simple.”

You’ve got that right!!! :banana:

There’s an old saying back in the plains states (where they have some really severe thunderstorms): “For every bolt of lightning, there’s something that invited the strike”. And at MAD Magazine, there’s also a saying “For every troll, there’s a subject that invited the ridicule”. :joker:

Since the tech suit craze broke out, the once sacred USMS board has now become a very fertile breeding ground for trolls and I’m just waiting for the next new development from Speedo, Tyr, Nike, etc. -and another opportunity for me to make a big stink!!! :argue:

Dolphin 2

SwimStud
June 19th, 2008, 04:00 PM
-and another opportunity for me to make a big stink!!! :argue:

Dolphin 2

Just exit the pool first...ktxbai!

:cool:

aquageek
June 19th, 2008, 04:06 PM
...and another opportunity for me to make a big stink!!!

Let's hope it's something you are actually qualified to speak on but since this is a swimming forum and you don't actually swim, that's unlikely.

Are you even a USMS member?

I notice how you have avoided giving your facts and figures on FINA. You planning on doing that or just putting it out there without any support, as usual?

The Fortress
June 19th, 2008, 04:15 PM
In what defintion of the word 'Mechanical' are you using this word?

Pertaining to, governed by, or in accordance with,
mechanics, or the laws of motion; pertaining to the
quantitative relations of force and matter, as
distinguished from mental, vital, chemical, etc.; as,
mechanical principles; a mechanical theory; mechanical
deposits.

2. Of or pertaining to a machine or to machinery or tools;
made or formed by a machine or with tools; as, mechanical
precision; mechanical products.

We have also divers mechanical arts. --Bacon.

3. Done as if by a machine; uninfluenced by will or emotion;
proceeding automatically, or by habit, without special
intention or reflection; as, mechanical singing;
mechanical verses; mechanical service.

4. Made and operated by interaction of forces without a
directing intelligence; as, a mechanical universe.

5. Obtained by trial, by measurements, etc.; approximate;
empirical. See the 2d Note under Geometric (http://dictionary.die.net/geometric).


I'm sorry, but none of those definitions apply to a swim suit. Unless you are referring to a diving suit, such as this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_diving_suit


But I have yet to see that worn in a swimming competition.


I am continually amazed at your prolific use of glittering generalities and vauge sweeping statements. You definately have a skill.

And to repeat what others have asked. What's it to you? You don't compete, so you are not being 'cheated' by others who choose to wear tech suits, you're not being harmed economically (unless there is a hidden link between swim suits and elevators that I don't see) or some rich kid wearing a tech suit has beaten one of your children out for a scholarship, resources that are vital to the human race are not being diverted to swim suit R&D and manufacture. So again, WHAT'S THE BIG FREAKIN DEAL???

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I think I get it now. You just love to argue endlessly about things that do not directly affect you.

You're a Troll. Plain and simple.

It's now much clearer.

Paul (Owner of a $58.00 Speedo Fast Skin 1 bought from Ebay)

Crankier or crankiest?

ALM
June 19th, 2008, 04:21 PM
In fact, Toto of Japan produces toilets in a technologically advanced factory, however that in itself doesn’t make their toilets a new form of technology (and people aren't silly enough to run out and spend over $500 on one of them either!!!). :lmao:

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan



The TOTO product Washlet Zoe is listed in the Guinness Book of Records as the world's most sophisticated toilet with seven functions. However, as the model was introduced in 1997, it is now likely to be inferior to the latest model by Toto Neorest. The idea for the washlet came from abroad, and the first toilet seat with integrated bidet was produced outside of Japan in 1964.

The age of the high-tech toilet in Japan started in 1980 with the introduction of the Washlet G Series by TOTO, and since then the product name washlet has been used to refer to all types of Japanese high-tech toilets. As of 2002, almost half of all private homes in Japan have such a toilet, exceeding the number of households with a personal computer.

While the toilet looks like a Western-style toilet at first glance, there are a number of additional features, such as blow dryer, seat heating, massage options, water jet adjustments, automatic lid opening, flushing after use, wireless control panels, heating and air conditioning for the room, et cetera, included either as part of the toilet or in the seat. These features can be accessed by a control panel that is either attached to one side of the seat or on a wall nearby, often transmitting the commands wirelessly to the toilet seat.

ALM
June 19th, 2008, 04:24 PM
I stopped reading too soon. From the same Wikipedia page:



Other features may include a heated seat, which may be adjustable from 30°C to 40°C; an automatic lid equipped with a proximity sensor, which opens and closes based on the location of the user.

Some even play music to relax the user's sphincter (some Inax toilets, for example, play the first few tunes of Op. 62 Nr. 6 Frühlingslied by Felix Mendelssohn).

Other features are automatic flushing, automatic air deodorizing, and a germ-resistant surface. Some models specially designed for the elderly may include arm rests and devices that help the user to stand up after use. A soft close feature slows the toilet lid down while closing so the lid does not slam onto the seat, or in some models, the toilet lid will close automatically a certain time after flushing.

The most recent introduction is the ozone deodorant system that can quickly eliminate the smells. Also, the latest models store the times when the toilet is used and have a power saving mode that warms the toilet seat only during times when the toilet is likely to be used based on historic usage patterns.

Some toilets also glow in the dark or may even have air conditioning below the rim for hot summer days. Another recent innovation is intelligent sensors that detect someone standing in front of the toilet and initiate an automatic raising of the lid (if someone is facing the toilet) or the lid and seat together (if the person is facing away from the toilet).

pwolf66
June 19th, 2008, 04:26 PM
Hey Pwolf66
Your quote: “You're a Troll. Plain and simple.”

You’ve got that right!!! :banana:


To quote a Forestry Service friend 'Where there's smoke, there's probably an idiot with matches'

But still, that doesn't answer the fundamental question, what EXACTLY do you get out of harping on the tech suit 'craze'? I'm sure that this question, among many, many, many others that have been posed to you directly, will also go unanswered.

Put it simply: Je suis finis avec vous

Paul

Dolphin 2
June 19th, 2008, 04:41 PM
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan

Hey Jayhawk
You aren't suggesting that Speedo, Tyr, Nike, etc. incorporate all of those features into a tech suit are you??? :joker:

Dolphin 2

aquageek
June 19th, 2008, 04:42 PM
Still waiting.

scyfreestyler
June 19th, 2008, 04:49 PM
To quote a Forestry Service friend 'Where there's smoke, there's probably an idiot with matches'



Paul

The difference here is that forest fires serve a purpose.

Dolphin 2
June 19th, 2008, 05:00 PM
To quote a Forestry Service friend 'Where there's smoke, there's probably an idiot with matches'

But still, that doesn't answer the fundamental question, what EXACTLY do you get out of harping on the tech suit 'craze'? I'm sure that this question, among many, many, many others that have been posed to you directly, will also go unanswered.

Put it simply: Je suis finis avec vous

Paul

Hey Pwolf66
You have a point there.

It's just that I find that this suit technology thing is turning into an object of ripe satire on the idiosyncrasies of society itself like people buying gas guzzling SUVs (they can't afford to drive anymore), the Bush Administration, and the sub prime real estate bust.

As for being a troll on the subject of tech suit bashing, the important question is who opened up this can of worms in the first place??? :dunno:

Dolphin 2

ALM
June 19th, 2008, 05:26 PM
Hey Jayhawk
You aren't suggesting that Speedo, Tyr, Nike, etc. incorporate all of those features into a tech suit are you??? :joker:


Not even NASA was able to do that. That was the one thing the astronauts hated about long moon walks. Being on the surface of the moon in a bulky spacesuit for 8 or 10 hours presented quite a challenge. For "solid waste" management, the best NASA could come up with was diapers worn inside the spacesuits.

The Japanese TOTO company probably doesn't produce this product, designed for American-sized behinds (and rated to withstand 2000 lbs):
http://www.greatjohn.com/Product1.html

PArob83
June 20th, 2008, 03:18 AM
Evolution exists... look we went from briefs to nasa in less then 6 pages...lol
so really, ive never been a big tech suit person but how long do they normally last (and still feel "better")
hey at least FINA did not ban all suits to cut out any arguments...

Iwannafly
June 20th, 2008, 10:06 AM
...FYI - you have zero history in sports to support your assertion the tech suit craze will go away. It hasn't gone away in a single other sport. Golf, tennis, basketball, cycling, baseball, etc have all had a major surge in technology in the last 25 years and it hasn't done anything but get stronger and stronger. Swimming is just the newest sport to the game, and not really new at all, well over a decade now. Sports and technology are now as coupled as, well, Fort and her pimped out Dodge Caravan XCH (extra cup holders).

Geek, you had better sell that fancy-schmancy carbon bicycle of yours before the bubble bursts. You're better off on a steel bike with shifters mounted on the down tube and only 10 speeds. Who really needs those extra 10 gears anyway?
Oops, that may have been a thread jack. Sorry.:-)

craig68
June 20th, 2008, 10:21 AM
While we're on the subject of wasteful, expensive technology that people don't need, I have to ask: What's up with elevators?!?! I prefer taking the good, old-fashioned stairs. They provide a little bit of exercise, and they don't contribute to global warming. And I've also found that I can go up the stairs faster if I wear my FS PRO.

aquageek
June 20th, 2008, 10:31 AM
Geek, you had better sell that fancy-schmancy carbon bicycle of yours before the bubble bursts. You're better off on a steel bike with shifters mounted on the down tube and only 10 speeds. Who really needs those extra 10 gears anyway?
Oops, that may have been a thread jack. Sorry.:-)

I want to go on record as saying that I own a used bike, that I got very affordably. It's not a full carbon bike. As I was passed by hundreds and hundreds of bikers last weekend, I realized that paying a few thousand more for a bike really won't do much more than boost my ego.

There is a certain peace that comes from winning wearing/riding ratty old gear, which does nullify all my previous arguments, I do realize.

Dolphin 2
June 20th, 2008, 11:58 AM
While we're on the subject of wasteful, expensive technology that people don't need, I have to ask: What's up with elevators?!?! I prefer taking the good, old-fashioned stairs. They provide a little bit of exercise, and they don't contribute to global warming. And I've also found that I can go up the stairs faster if I wear my FS PRO.

Hey Craig68
This should have been some place in the NSR discussion, but now that you brought up the subject of the environmental effects of elevators and high rise buildings, here’s some trivia: :oldman:

Elevators are the second most widely used mode of transportation (based on passenger miles per year) and the private auto ranks first. Most of this travel is done in medium to high rise buildings which are in fact more economical and environmentally friendly than having offices situated in several low rise buildings. :agree:

Accordingly, with all the economic and environmental benefits, elevators are now the subject of research and development in other countries such as Japan:

http://translib.blogspot.com/2008/01/mitsubishi-builds-worlds-tallest.html

Incidentally, in 1996 I was a member of the of the Elevator Code Division of the American Society Of Mechanical Engineers and I gave several presentations on the analysis of the safety features in what are now considered rather mundane computerized elevator controls:

http://www.lantacompany.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=36

http://ntlsearch.bts.gov/tris/search.do?b1=1&f1=0&t1=au%3A%22dutch+galen%22&r=1&d=tr&p=1&z=1&s=&o=&new=n

http://ntlsearch.bts.gov/tris/record/tris/00841006.html

Hey - this thread is really an example of social evolution. It went from a discussion about whether swimmers at BYU would be allowed to wear briefs to the environmental benefits of elevators. :doh:

Who knows, if this thread stays alive long enough someone will in fact come up with a workable solution to the energy crisis!!! :groovy:

Dolphin 2

scyfreestyler
June 20th, 2008, 12:13 PM
There was a rather interesting article about elevators in the New Yorker a few weeks ago.

scyfreestyler
June 20th, 2008, 12:15 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/04/21/080421fa_fact_paumgarten

Jazz Hands
June 20th, 2008, 12:16 PM
There was a rather interesting article about elevators in the New Yorker a few weeks ago.

Edit: Ahh, you beat me to the link. Good article.

aquageek
June 20th, 2008, 12:17 PM
Hey - this thread is really an example of social evolution.

Actually, this thread has been mostly about people speaking out of their backsides without any real qualifications to do so.

scyfreestyler
June 20th, 2008, 12:21 PM
Actually, this thread has been mostly about people speaking out of their backsides without any real qualifications to do so.


Hey! I cited a source for my comment! :D

Paul Smith
June 20th, 2008, 12:35 PM
This thread has certainly "morphed"...but after reading one of the better articles I've seen discussing our sport, technology, records, etc. I figured I'd wade in and pass it along:

http://www.swimnetwork.com/articles/article/news/20080619/shameless_plug__the_mark_spitz_era-14117.html

aquageek
June 20th, 2008, 12:47 PM
I'm really suprised you'd post and article about how much better things were back in the 1970s, that's really unlike you.

ALM
June 20th, 2008, 01:24 PM
I'm really suprised you'd post and article about how much better things were back in the 1970s, that's really unlike you.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: