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tjrpatt
June 22nd, 2008, 04:38 PM
I did my first 50 fly LCM in ages last weekend. It was the first time that I did since I was maybe 12. Obviously, I swam in SCM for Summer League up to 18. Anyway, I did a :34 last weekend but can obviously drop time once I get the proper breathing pattern situated. Should I come up for every stroke on the 50 or breathe every third stroke.

geochuck
June 22nd, 2008, 04:48 PM
May be 3 breaths for the 50m.

We don't need any air for a 50.

pwolf66
June 22nd, 2008, 04:55 PM
With a :34, I would think that you would want to breathe no more than every other stroke and could as Geo said take the breaths. But as in all things YMMV, so if possible, I would do some test 50s where you try out various breathing patterns and see what works for you. As an example, I just went 28.83 SCM this weekend and breathed 1 out (right before the flags), the quick breath at the turn and 2 back (about every 4th stroke).

Paul

Jazz Hands
June 22nd, 2008, 05:29 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bnNsLwhz1Lo

Check out Sergiy Breus in lane 3. Breathing every stroke for a 23.38.

Allen Stark
June 22nd, 2008, 05:50 PM
I don't think George meant every third,but rather 3 total. That seems right to me.I have done it in 2 breaths before,but I usually need three now.

geochuck
June 22nd, 2008, 05:56 PM
Right Allen I used to take 2 breaths on a fifty but think I would need another one. Some one healthy and younger could do well without a breath.

knelson
June 22nd, 2008, 06:01 PM
I agree with George. You should try to take as few breaths as possible. Three total breaths is probably doable for many swimmers. Some swimmers can swim fly fast while breathing every stroke (e.g. Phelps), but most of us can't. Breathing makes your legs sink and that slows you down.

Paul Smith
June 22nd, 2008, 07:55 PM
There are no hard and fast rules here...It's far more important to establish a rhythm and flow then it is to see how few/many breaths you should take...often I see people who have a very smooth stroke breathing every other while swimming fly in practice try and go with only a few breaths at a meet...and end up spinning/slipping.

It takes a lot of repetition to find what will work best for you...and that has to be as close to race pace as possible (without gear)...that means lots of meets and/or fast paced workouts.

knelson
June 22nd, 2008, 10:15 PM
often I see people who have a very smooth stroke breathing every other while swimming fly in practice try and go with only a few breaths at a meet...and end up spinning/slipping.

Very good point, Paul. This has definitely happened to me.

hofffam
June 23rd, 2008, 10:30 AM
I agree with Paul. I have had great difficulty racing the 50 fly to my potential. I think I have a fundemental problem with rhythm during the race. In practice I am smooth, and typically breath every stroke or every other. In a race, off the blocks, I struggle for smoothness with the high speed off the blocks. During races I typically breathe every third. I may need to breath every 2nd, purely for the rhythm, not for air.

I think I don't practice high speed fly often enough. I KNOW I don't race it enough.

tjrpatt
June 23rd, 2008, 11:45 AM
thanks for all the tips. I plan to do more 50 flys even though I am a 200 flyer. But, it was a really fun race. But, right now, I am lucky to finish a 200 fly. But, I am getting 20K LC meters every week so I should be fine for the meets that I am planning to do starting in July and ending with my Zone Champs in late August.

pwolf66
June 23rd, 2008, 04:17 PM
ending with my Zone Champs in late August.

So you're coming to Colonies Zone LCM Champs at U of Maryland? If so, we'll have to meet, I'll be there and so will quite a few Forumites. It's a VERY nice pool so you can't afford to miss it.

Paul

tjrpatt
June 23rd, 2008, 08:56 PM
That is the plan. Plus, I plan on doing the long course meets at Hains Point and UMBC. There is only one meet in Philly and that already happened. I am also planning on doing this meet in Rahway,NJ. It is not a great pool but the key thin is that it is a long course meet. Hope to see you there and the other forumites.

Paul Smith
June 23rd, 2008, 09:29 PM
Tom, just a suggestion but if you have a set of fins (I like the softer TYR Split) use them to keep your speed and body position simulating race day/pace and practice several different breathing patterns (lots of rest, pure technique work, 80% effort). Count your strokes, look at your times...with enough practice you'll figure out what the perfect balance is for your style of swimming this event.

david.margrave
June 24th, 2008, 12:35 AM
Can I jump in to your thread and ask about breathing on 100 fly LCM?

I have tried various breathing patterns in the 25 yd. pool I practice in on weekdays. It's hard to pick a favorite. Breathing every other stroke or every three strokes gets me going faster, but I tire out. When breathing every stroke I don't tire as quickly, but I go slower, so I'm not sure I cover more distance before I get exhausted. I swim in a 50m pool saturday AM and tried 100 fly last practice, but only made it about 75m before I switched to backstroke for a bit, then switched back to fly and finished. But on another attempt I did make it 100m with fins.

I'm swimming 100 fly in Arizona this weekend and will settle for finishing without getting disqualified, but my real goal is to finish strong instead of limping along and gasping for breath every stroke.

I dug into my old shoe box of ribbons and my last (and best to date) 100 LCM fly was at age 13, 7/21/84 with a time of 1:22.52 in Butte, Montana of all places.

david.margrave
June 24th, 2008, 12:40 AM
Here is an old thread I have found to be helpful. It's not really about the 50 but it does mention certain things that work for the 50 but not 100 and 200

http://forums.usms.org/archive/index.php/t-1731.html

geochuck
June 24th, 2008, 12:46 AM
David I always swam a 100 fly breathing every two strokes and found it was not too bad. I only swam a 200 in a race once and had to breath every stroke or would not have finished. 100 free again is easier so I did not have to breathe too often.

50s fly or free for me in the old days no breathers. Just did not like to break rythym. The older I get the more I breathe. See you at Mount Hood.

Chris Stevenson
June 24th, 2008, 08:35 AM
I have tried various breathing patterns in the 25 yd. pool I practice in on weekdays. It's hard to pick a favorite. Breathing every other stroke or every three strokes gets me going faster, but I tire out. When breathing every stroke I don't tire as quickly, but I go slower, so I'm not sure I cover more distance before I get exhausted. I swim in a 50m pool saturday AM and tried 100 fly last practice, but only made it about 75m before I switched to backstroke for a bit, then switched back to fly and finished. But on another attempt I did make it 100m with fins.

For the 100 LCM, try two up and one down, that might work for you if breathing every other stroke doesn't get you enough air.

I've got no real advice for the 50, it isn't an event I do often. I don't think I've done it LCM for 20 years. I'd probably breathe every 4 strokes or so.

tjrpatt
June 24th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Tom, just a suggestion but if you have a set of fins (I like the softer TYR Split) use them to keep your speed and body position simulating race day/pace and practice several different breathing patterns (lots of rest, pure technique work, 80% effort). Count your strokes, look at your times...with enough practice you'll figure out what the perfect balance is for your style of swimming this event.

Paul,
The TYR fins sounds like a good suggestion. My issue is that some fins are always built for people with wide feet. But, I can go to this swim shop near work and try them on.

david.margrave
June 29th, 2008, 06:53 PM
For the 100 LCM, try two up and one down, that might work for you if breathing every other stroke doesn't get you enough air.

This is what I did. I normally breathe every two so it took a conscious effort. If I stopped thinking about it I'd lapse to what I usually do (one-up-one-down).

CreamPuff
June 29th, 2008, 09:28 PM
Really great question.

I tried (in practice) to do 6 SDK's off the start and then breathe every 5 for a 50 LCM fly. I died. Coach told me to not do that again.

In 50 SCY I take 2 to 3 breaths total for the 50.

In 50 LCM this past weekend, I decided to breathe whenever necessary - screw any planned pattern (except for the last 5 meters or so - no breath.) Went a 29.4 focusing on other race aspects and breathing whenever I needed it. 50 LC fly is so different from SC. I don't train for the 50 so take that advice with a grain of salt. :D

Like you, I do 200 fly too (I'm starting to). LC - it's basically breathe all the time or suffer the consequences.