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View Full Version : Lochte scratches 200 Free



ehoch
July 1st, 2008, 02:19 AM
Saving up for the 100 Back - did enough for the relay ...

ande
July 1st, 2008, 06:27 AM
good strategy
he needs to rest up for the 100 bk
to improve his chances of making top 2 and making the medley relay
it'll be a dog fight all the way

larsen jensen's lucky day
8 JENSEN Larsen TROJCA 1 SEP 1985 1:47.08

cowsvils
July 1st, 2008, 08:49 AM
wait, is the 4x200 relay made up based on times or top 6 in finals? some combination of both?

Sam Perry
July 1st, 2008, 10:27 AM
wait, is the 4x200 relay made up based on times or top 6 in finals? some combination of both?

Top 2 are on for sure, then coaches discretion. His time last night pretty much assures him a spot in the relay. The 100 Back will be the race of the night, if not the meet. The 1-4 spots are a complete tossup. It will be awesome!

lefty
July 1st, 2008, 10:39 AM
The men's 800 free relay is going to be really really fast. They are going to go below 7:00 in 5 weeks!

I am glad that Lochte went ahead and gave the coaches the proof that they need to put him on the relay in Beijing. Clearly he deserves a spot on the relay. He probably would have been on the relay anyhow, but now we won't have a repeat of the minor Phelps/Hall controversy from Athens.

The 100 back will be great. My bet is the first titan will go down and Piersol doesn't make the team in this event.

USMSarah
July 1st, 2008, 11:03 AM
The 100 back will be great. My bet is the first titan will go down and Piersol doesn't make the team in this event.

I don't know about Piersol. I am rooting for him, though. He did have a good semi swim. Did I hear correctly that he is not shaved? However, it's going to be one heck of a race no matter who wins.

Chris Stevenson
July 1st, 2008, 11:22 AM
I don't know about Piersol. I am rooting for him, though. He did have a good semi swim. Did I hear correctly that he is not shaved? However, it's going to be one heck of a race no matter who wins.

If I understood the interview correctly, he didn't shave for prelims and clipped for semis. Certainly he will shave for finals, way too competitive to do otherwise.

Regardless who wins, there will be some long faces after the race. What a brutal meet.

knelson
July 1st, 2008, 11:40 AM
It should be a dogfight between Peirsol, Bal, Grevers and Lochte. I was actually wondering if Lochte might go for the 200 free. Things might have been different had the 100 back final been first on tonight's schedule.

ande
July 1st, 2008, 11:46 AM
Olympic Relays

top 6 in the 100 & 200 freestyle go to the Olympics
the idea is 4 relay members and 2 alternates are eligible to make the olympic team, the Olympic Committee has a selection proceedure document (http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/_Rainbow/Documents/8af2b987-6b50-4b82-92de-322f657afb7f/08%20SOG%20SWI%20ATH%20(Pool)%20AMENDED%202-22-08%20signed.pdf),
where they place priorities, 26 men and 26 women can make the team
With Phelps and Lochte making multiple events they won't be close to 26 mens members.

That's why making to 6 in the 200 free tonight is critical

I believe Michael PHELPS and Peter VANDERKAAY, will be first and second, Klete could step up and pop a great one.

That leaves Dave WALTERS, Ricky BERENS, Danny BEAL, Larsen JENSEN, and Erik VENDT fighting for the next 3 spots, who ever is 7th and 8th won't be on the Olympic Team for the 4 x 200 relay
But remember Larsen Jensen is already on the Olympic Team for the 400 fr, if he has an amazing 200 free in practice at the Olympics they'll consider using him.

At the Olympics there's a prelim swim and final swim, anyone who swims in prelims earns the medal if one is won in finals.

Olympic coaches test the swimmers in practice and see how well they swim their events at the Olympics.

On Relay Day:
Prelims:
4 swimmers will be chosen to swim prelims, maybe the 4 slowest, USA has the luxury of swimming the 4 slowest and still making top 8,
their instructions will be
SAFE STARTS and
swim as fast as you can.
The fastest swimmers don't have to swim in the morning so they can get extra rest.
Usually you see 4 swim the morning
2 rest
then the 2 fastest from the morning swim at night along with the 2 very fastest who didn't swim in the morning

at this olympics we might see 4 swim in the morning then 4 different swimmers swim at night,

BUT coaches will pick the 4 fastest swimmers to swim in finals,
whether they were top 6 or not, Lochte is going to let his 1:45.6 time stand.

The controversy in 2004 was Michael Phelps didn't swim the 100 free at trials but he had a faster 100 free time. Gary Hall was very vocal that Phelps shouldn't be on the final relay. Eddie said the fastest swimmers swim at night, Gary had a time to beat and didn't.

My guess is phelps will swim the 100 free prelims and post a fast 100 time then drop the semis and finals

going into 2008 trials before the LZR I believed in the 100 free
it was going to take a 48.6 - 48.7 to make the US Olympic team, I now think top 6 will be in the range of 48.2 - 48.5 and top 2 should be under 48



wait, is the 4x200 relay made up based on times or top 6 in finals? some combination of both?

lefty
July 1st, 2008, 11:54 AM
Olympic Relays
But remember Larsen Jensen is already on the Olympic Team for the 400 fr, if he has an amazing 200 free in practice at the Olympics they'll consider using him.


I don't think attempting this is even an option for him. IF he goes a 4:41 in the 400 he might be able to convince someone to atleast give him a shot in a time-trial, but considering that he has tonights competition to prove he deserves the spot this has got to be his only chance. If I was the coach and he told me that he wanted to time trial to earn a spot on the relay, I would ask him why he has been training for the 200 when the US needs him to swim well in the 1500 and 400.

SO who will be the odd guys out? I think Jensen and Beal.

Frank Thompson
July 1st, 2008, 12:12 PM
Top 2 are on for sure, then coaches discretion. His time last night pretty much assures him a spot in the relay. The 100 Back will be the race of the night, if not the meet. The 1-4 spots are a complete tossup. It will be awesome!

The Top 2 are not necessarily on for sure. John Piersma won the 200 Free at the 1996 Olympic Trials and beat Josh Davis (1:48.97 to 1:49.29) and they were the two selected to represent the USA in the 200 Free. Piersma swam a poor swim in the prelims of 1:50.XX and was not even selected to swim the prelims of the 800 Free Relay to be given another chance to prove himself. It probably mattered that he swam a poor 400 Free in the prelims and the coaches decided to swim others swimmers that made the top 6.

Another example of this is Lindsay Benko who was second in the 200 Free at the 2004 Olympic Trials but did not swim as fast in the heats of the 200 Free in the Olympics in Athens. Because the coaches thought she didn't swim as fast as expected in the individual event, she swam the prelims to prove that she could swim as fast as the trials swim. It didn't happen and she was off the final of the 800 Free Relay.

In 1996, Jenny Thompson was 7th in the 200 Free at Olympic Trials and did not qualify to swim in the relay per top 6 rule. The coaches can over rule that if they feel the relay would be faster with another swimmer on it. Jenny didn't even swim prelims and swam on the gold medal winning relay in the finals. In 2000, she didn't even swim the individual event at Olympic Trials but swam in the finals on the gold medal winning relay.

These decisions by coaches are not without controversey. I remember reading something about Christina Teutcher in 2000. She swam the 200 Free in the Olympic Trials and had a time that was faster than the others that were sent to swim the relay. She was told she did not have to swim the prelims to prove that she could swim the time that was done in the Olympic Trials and it would be best to rest up for the 200 IM individual event, which she took a bronze medal. As the story goes she found out 10 minutes before the 800 Free Relay final started that she would not be swimming the relay. She let her emotions speak in an interview with Swimming World about 6 months after the Olympics.

hofffam
July 1st, 2008, 02:45 PM
Frank - I thought the controversy in 2004 with the women's 800 involved Rachael Komisarsz? Natalie Coughlin's book describes the controversy but does not name the swimmer who didn't get to swim finals. The book describes a very vocal negative reaction to the coaches decision.

In 2004 there was another controversy - the men's 4x100 free. Crocker swam leadoff and swam poorly. He had a fever for several days. He deserved to be on the relay based on time but Eddie misjudged Crocker's ability at the time. The relay finished 3rd, unable to recover from the poor 1st leg. Crocker recovered to swim superbly on the medley relay after Phelps stepped aside.

knelson
July 1st, 2008, 02:55 PM
In 2004 there was another controversy - the men's 4x100 free. Crocker swam leadoff and swam poorly. He had a fever for several days. He deserved to be on the relay based on time but Eddie misjudged Crocker's ability at the time.

That relay was more second-guessing than controversy. As you said, Crocker deserved to be on the relay due to his second place finish at Trials. It was sort of a judgement call for Reese whether to keep Ian on the relay even though he wasn't feeling great.

Picking who swims relays can't be an easy decision for the coaches. There's always going to be someone who felt like they got snubbed. The coaches really need to put blinders on and go with the four people they feel will be the fastest.

FlyQueen
July 1st, 2008, 03:01 PM
The men's 800 free relay is going to be really really fast. They are going to go below 7:00 in 5 weeks!

I am glad that Lochte went ahead and gave the coaches the proof that they need to put him on the relay in Beijing. Clearly he deserves a spot on the relay. He probably would have been on the relay anyhow, but now we won't have a repeat of the minor Phelps/Hall controversy from Athens.

The 100 back will be great. My bet is the first titan will go down and Piersol doesn't make the team in this event.

I don't why people keep doubting Peirsol. I'd bet good money he'll have his hand on the wall first. He's been around a long time and knows what he has to do. I think it'll be Peirsol, Bal, Lochte ... we'll see. But Peirsol hits the wall first.

Frank Thompson
July 1st, 2008, 03:21 PM
Frank - I thought the controversy in 2004 with the women's 800 involved Rachael Komisarsz? Natalie Coughlin's book describes the controversy but does not name the swimmer who didn't get to swim finals. The book describes a very vocal negative reaction to the coaches decision.

In 2004 there was another controversy - the men's 4x100 free. Crocker swam leadoff and swam poorly. He had a fever for several days. He deserved to be on the relay based on time but Eddie misjudged Crocker's ability at the time. The relay finished 3rd, unable to recover from the poor 1st leg. Crocker recovered to swim superbly on the medley relay after Phelps stepped aside.

You are correct with both storys and the one I was refering to was another one in 2000 that was reported on also. The 1996 instance with John Piersma and the 2004 instance with Lindsay Benko was given to prove that even if you win the individual event at Olympic Trials or take second, you are not guaranteed a slot on either the prelims or the finals relays. The 800 Free Relay is a little different than the others because both the Men's and Women's 200 Free individual event is swam with finals before the heats of that relay have swam.

The 400 Medley Relay heats are swam before the final of the Men's 100 Fly and that is why Michael Phelps swam the prelims of that relay because at the 2004 Olympic Trials he was the second place finisher and thus was selected to swim the morning heats of the 100 Fly. Because he won the individual event over the first place finisher at Olympic Trials (Ian Crocker) he earned the right to swim in the final along with the prelim. This meant that Ian Crocker would not be awarded a medal (gold) in that relay. If he would have swam prelims he would have but no one knew who would win that event until the event was over and that was after the 400 Medley Relay heats. This year there could be the same problem for the coaches to figure.

This is also the same problem with the 400 Free Relay in that the final is a day before the 100 Free heats for Men and two days before for Women and you are not sure how your top 2 qualifers are going to do. So that relay is usually swam with the 3rd thru 6 place qualifers and they take the top two fastest times from those qualifers. Of course Michael Phelps negated this in 2004 because he posted a :49.05 in winning 2004 spring Nationals and that was a time the coaches wanted the swimmers to beat with Relay take offs factored in for the decision. With the splits it was determined that Neil Walker along with Michael would be joining the top 2 qualifers from the Olympic Trials.

That sound fair to all of the coaching staff and there was not a controversey until the relay swam and the 2 qualifers the next day failed to make the semi finals for the first time in USA Olympic history. That added fuel to the fire about the non qualifing Phelps, sick Crocker, and a healthy Hall.

imspoiled
July 1st, 2008, 04:22 PM
I don't why people keep doubting Peirsol. I'd bet good money he'll have his hand on the wall first. He's been around a long time and knows what he has to do. I think it'll be Peirsol, Bal, Lochte ... we'll see. But Peirsol hits the wall first.

Heather, you beat me to it! Bal, it seems, has something to prove, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him swim fast again tonight. He doesn't want to be odd man out again. AP is a champion and knows how to get the job done. I really wish everyone would stop dumping on him.

scyfreestyler
July 1st, 2008, 04:28 PM
AP is a champion and knows how to get the job done. I really wish everyone would stop dumping on him.

Did he also know how to get the job done when Lochte got the 200 back WR? ;)

Seriously, I think Peirsol is a serious contender and probably favored to win this 100 back showdown, but nobody is infallible.

imspoiled
July 1st, 2008, 04:38 PM
Did he also know how to get the job done when Lochte got the 200 back WR? ;)

Seriously, I think Peirsol is a serious contender and probably favored to win this 100 back showdown, but nobody is infallible.

Like you've never lost a race, Matt? It happens. Even to Michael Phelps. Yet, it happens to Aaron Peirsol and everyone acts like it's over for him.

The 100 back final should be one of the best finishes of the trials based on what we've seen so far. No doubt, it will be hundredths of a second that separate the top two from the field. IMO underestimating a gold medalist and WR holder is a bad idea. Yes, he could get beat, but why is everyone acting like it's a foregone conclusion?

scyfreestyler
July 1st, 2008, 04:42 PM
Like you've never lost a race, Matt? It happens. Even to Michael Phelps. Yet, it happens to Aaron Peirsol and everyone acts like it's over for him.

The 100 back final should be one of the best finishes of the trials based on what we've seen so far. No doubt, it will be hundredths of a second that separate the top two from the field. IMO underestimating a gold medalist and WR holder is a bad idea. Yes, he could get beat, but why is everyone acting like it's a foregone conclusion?


Trust me, I've lost my share of races. :o

Like I said, Peirsol is favored to win in my book...but, I can understand the skepticism that others might have given the events of the past year in Peirsol's signature events.

knelson
July 1st, 2008, 06:11 PM
I predict Peirsol will win in a new world record time. I don't think Bal will be as fast as last night and will end up third or fourth.

But really it's anyone's guess. Those top four are all very close and I don't really think anyone was holding back yesterday.

lefty
July 1st, 2008, 06:15 PM
Heather, I think a bet can be arranged! Not really, but I'll come back here tomorrow and admit to being wrong if Piersol wins.

Sam Perry
July 1st, 2008, 06:34 PM
Horns are not swimming that well. I think he gets in still though. He owns the event and I don't think he is giving it up. Lochte and Grevers odd men out Bal is in. That was my prediction a week ago and I am sticking to it.

FlyQueen
July 1st, 2008, 06:49 PM
I predict Peirsol will win in a new world record time. I don't think Bal will be as fast as last night and will end up third or fourth.

But really it's anyone's guess. Those top four are all very close and I don't really think anyone was holding back yesterday.

I have total and utter faith that Peirsol was indeed holding back a bit in semis. Look at how Worlds have played out previously. He frequently qualifies to semis and isn't the top seed in finals then works it in finals to win.

The top guys know how to do this - they can cruise prelims and semis then pour it on for finals.

FlyQueen
July 1st, 2008, 06:51 PM
Horns are not swimming that well. I think he gets in still though. He owns the event and I don't think he is giving it up. Lochte and Grevers odd men out Bal is in. That was my prediction a week ago and I am sticking to it.

Seriously? They aren't swimming well? What trials are you watching? Hansen didn't have a great finals swim but I think his prelim and semi swims were great ... there are two in the finals of the 200 free ... what more do you want?

KeithM
July 1st, 2008, 07:25 PM
I predict a tie for second and a swim-off!

Wouldn't that be incredible?

Iwannafly
July 1st, 2008, 09:49 PM
I predict Peirsol will win in a new world record time. I don't think Bal will be as fast as last night and will end up third or fourth.

But really it's anyone's guess. Those top four are all very close and I don't really think anyone was holding back yesterday.

It appears that knelson was on his predicting game. I feel bad for Bal, but man Grevers had the go-go-gadget arms at the wall!

FlyQueen
July 1st, 2008, 10:17 PM
I'm so bummed for Bal, more for him than Lochte since Lochte has other events. I'm sad for McGregory too. How crappy to have such great swims in prelims and semis then to get third AGAIN in finals.

HOWEVER - did I call the Peirsol thing or what?!?!

ts75
July 1st, 2008, 10:43 PM
I'm so bummed for Bal, more for him than Lochte since Lochte has other events. I'm sad for McGregory too. How crappy to have such great swims in prelims and semis then to get third AGAIN in finals.

HOWEVER - did I call the Peirsol thing or what?!?!


I agree with you about McGregory. That is completely heartbreaking to finish 3rd at trials three times. Bal's situation is tough too but McGregory... :(

scyfreestyler
July 1st, 2008, 10:51 PM
I'm so bummed for Bal, more for him than Lochte since Lochte has other events. I'm sad for McGregory too. How crappy to have such great swims in prelims and semis then to get third AGAIN in finals.

HOWEVER - did I call the Peirsol thing or what?!?!


You did! :bow:

Chris Stevenson
July 2nd, 2008, 05:36 AM
I agree with you about McGregory. That is completely heartbreaking to finish 3rd at trials three times. Bal's situation is tough too but McGregory... :(

She had the WR (however briefly) the day before...then doesn't make the team. Brutal.

pwolf66
July 2nd, 2008, 08:43 AM
She had the WR (however briefly) the day before...then doesn't make the team. Brutal.

But that will illustrate exactly how DEEP USA swimming is right now across the board. Going into most finals, you have 4-5 swimmers who have a VERY real shot of finishing 1 or 2. This has been incredible to watch so far.

aquageek
July 2nd, 2008, 08:46 AM
Yes, but don't forget swimming is dying in the US.

swimcat
July 2nd, 2008, 08:54 AM
let's give grevers some credit. he swam a great race.

aquaFeisty
July 2nd, 2008, 09:40 AM
let's give grevers some credit. he swam a great race.

He did indeed swim a great race... with an even greater finish! The sprint training at Ford seems to have served him well. Can't wait to see how he does in the 50 and 100 free!

lefty
July 2nd, 2008, 10:10 AM
My wife, whose knowledge of swimming is very cursory, asked me "why don you think Piersol will lose, didn't he win the Gold medal last time..." Seems so obvious now!

gull
July 2nd, 2008, 10:21 AM
My wife, whose knowledge of swimming is very cursory, asked me "why don't you think Piersol will lose, didn't he win the Gold medal last time..." Seems so obvious now!


My wife, on the other hand, just wanted to know why they don't try to sell the sport by highlighting how ripped these guys are.

imspoiled
July 2nd, 2008, 10:58 AM
My wife, on the other hand, just wanted to know why they don't try to sell the sport by highlighting how ripped these guys are.

It's harder to see in the body suits. They's have to televise practice & warm-up sessions to "see" the real benefits.

Sam Perry
July 2nd, 2008, 01:16 PM
Seriously? They aren't swimming well? What trials are you watching? Hansen didn't have a great finals swim but I think his prelim and semi swims were great ... there are two in the finals of the 200 free ... what more do you want?

I was referring to how flat Hansen looked in the finals and how Klueh looked at that point. Shanteau, and after last night Peirsol and Berens makes me wrong. I am glad for that Hook 'Em! Hope this sets up well for Crocker and Hansen/Peirsol get the 200 WRs back.

knelson
July 2nd, 2008, 03:04 PM
Five Horns made semis in the 100 free, too. Looks like Peirsol's WR in the back got 'em fired up!

aquageek
July 2nd, 2008, 03:24 PM
Do they all have the silly tattoo like Smith? One of those horns has roots here in sleepy Charlotte.

knelson
July 2nd, 2008, 05:22 PM
Since they're Longhorns wouldn't it make more sense if they got branded ?

scyfreestyler
July 2nd, 2008, 05:25 PM
Or the other, slightly more invasive procedure which is equally popular among cattle.

:)