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CreamPuff
July 8th, 2008, 02:19 PM
I *think* I know the answer to this but I wanted to confirm -

Getting ready to swim the 25K USMS OW swim next Saturday. And yeah, yeah, I know everyone on here is going to say that doing the 25 is crazy. But it will be done. :wiggle: Insert loco smiley here.

I also signed up for USA-S GA Senior State meet which is 5 days after the 25K. The meet is the following Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Is it just asking for an injury to race that soon after the 25K? I've never done that kind of distance before. Or can I swim a couple of events (I will scratch finals) if I feel fine and nothing is hurting me? Or should I just expect to feel terrible for a week after the swim?

I've never been in better shape in my life. That's probably a good thing with the 25K coming up.

Thanks!

Donna
July 8th, 2008, 02:22 PM
Good Luck Kristina!

I'll be cheering you on for both events!

scyfreestyler
July 8th, 2008, 02:26 PM
So you have 4 full days to rest? Hmm? Well, only you will be able to determine how fatigued you are after a few days rest. I would base my decision upon an easy recovery workout on the Wednesday prior to the meet. If I felt like trash and my joints and muscles were still recovering, it would seem wise to skip the meet and live to swim another day.

Good luck in the 25K. There's another certified insane member on here with aspirations to swim this same event. You two should undergo joint therapy. :)

CreamPuff
July 8th, 2008, 02:47 PM
Thank you Donna! You go get 'em at Nationals!! GOOD LUCK! Maybe I'll see you at next year's LCM nats. I hear it's in Indy?!

Makes good sense to me SCYFreestyler. I don't see myself swimming the meet if things are hurting. But if I'm not hurting. . . I'll be tempted.

knelson
July 8th, 2008, 02:51 PM
I think there's a good chance you'll be completely trashed and probably won't swim that fast at the meet, but I don't really think you're risking injury.

FlyQueen
July 8th, 2008, 03:03 PM
My recommendation is to take at least a solid week off before you even think about touching the water. Even then I'd only do about 1000 a few times for a couple weeks.

I ran the Chicago marathon in 2000. I felt fabulous in all my training runs (well as good as you can). My 20 mile run was awesome but I needed a break after the actual marathon - I could barely walk for about 4 days.

I think physically and mentally you'll need and want a break. I'd skip the meet altogether but if you are feeling fantastic after you could try (as suggested above) a long real easy swim on Wednesday and see what happens.

Forcing yourself to try and swim fast very well may end of putting you on the path towards an injury.

SwimStud
July 8th, 2008, 03:05 PM
You're Special K remember, you can do it!

I think like others fatigue not injury is the worry. that said. rest before, take a diligent approach to your diet in the recovery period. Green tea, bananas, maybe some supplements to help recovery. Don't idle but limit days between the two events to some EZ stretchy type of swimming or other exercise.

CreamPuff
July 8th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Kirk, it's been so long since I've been "trashed." Not looking forward to it! :frustrated:

Heather, I see what you are saying. Better to err on being more conservative.
4 days!? Yikes! Thanks for the heads up. I could never run a marathon.

CreamPuff
July 8th, 2008, 03:11 PM
You're Special K remember, you can do it!

I think like others fatigue not injury is the worry. that said. rest before, take a diligent approach to your diet in the recovery period. Green tea, bananas, maybe some supplements to help recovery. Don't idle but limit days between the two events to some EZ stretchy type of swimming or other exercise.

Awwww. . . thanks Stud. :)

I've adopted a new diet (5 weeks ago) complete with recovery drinks. What's crazy is that I've had some of the best practices of my life since my change in diet - and I feel amazing. I've adapted well to swimming with the kids now. But. . . this 25er is a different animal. Hey are you doing Colonies LCM Zone meet?

geochuck
July 8th, 2008, 03:15 PM
Kristina I have raced a 28 miler on Saturday and the following Tuesday a 25 miler.

We used to race every week anywhere from 10 miles to 32 miles from July1st til Nov 15th.

One 10 miler, one 15 miler, a couple of 21 milers, the rest of the races were 25 miles or over.

swimshark
July 8th, 2008, 03:16 PM
Good luck with both! Personally, I'd go for both but judge how you feel and possibly skip the kids meet.

CreamPuff
July 8th, 2008, 03:25 PM
Kristina I have raced a 28 miler on Saturday and the following Tuesday a 25 miler.

We used to race every week anywhere from 10 miles to 32 miles from July1st til Nov 15th.

One 10 miler, one 15 miler, a couple of 21 milers, the rest of the races were 25 miles or over.

First, that's amazing!!!

Second, I don't think that I'm in as good a shape that you were at that time. BUT, I will have my B70, personal escort, and food/ hydration. I'm a pansy.

SwimStud
July 8th, 2008, 04:40 PM
Awwww. . . thanks Stud. :)

I've adopted a new diet (5 weeks ago) complete with recovery drinks. What's crazy is that I've had some of the best practices of my life since my change in diet - and I feel amazing. I've adapted well to swimming with the kids now. But. . . this 25er is a different animal. Hey are you doing Colonies LCM Zone meet?

I'll be at zones yeah. Why will that lure you north? ;)

Jazz Hands
July 8th, 2008, 04:59 PM
I've adopted a new diet (5 weeks ago) complete with recovery drinks. What's crazy is that I've had some of the best practices of my life since my change in diet - and I feel amazing.

What's your new diet, and how does it compare to your old one?

CreamPuff
July 8th, 2008, 05:49 PM
I'll be at zones yeah. Why will that lure you north? ;)

Stud, if you are there . . . who could resist?! :agree::agree:

CreamPuff
July 8th, 2008, 05:51 PM
Good luck with both! Personally, I'd go for both but judge how you feel and possibly skip the kids meet.

Thank you Alison! That's pretty much what I was thinking initially.
How's Jennifer these days? Is she competing in any tris?

swimcat
July 8th, 2008, 05:57 PM
GOOD LUCK...... :groovy::cheerleader:

The Fortress
July 8th, 2008, 06:18 PM
What's your new diet, and how does it compare to your old one?

I'm interested too!

You'll do great!! How long does a "race" like that take? 5 hours? Ouch.

Doesn't sound like a real injury issue to me either if there's nothing creaky or twingey right now. But I think it would be mentally and physically difficult to get in the water right away and race. Besides, you already have many extremely fast LC times and you can come to Colonies Zones and smoke me in fly! (Well, not the 200 of course; you're on your own there.)

Straight ahead!

geochuck
July 8th, 2008, 06:32 PM
The race is 15.3 miles long, it should take any where from 6 to 7 hours for most good swimmers.

Big AL
July 8th, 2008, 06:47 PM
I have a friend that used to do this swim and others that were MUCH longer. He was a 1650 NCAA finalist and was training 40-50k yards/week at the time in his early 30s. My feedback is based on how well he got back into it when we trained together.

You will need about 2 weeks to recover and do anything other than easy-moderate effort as far as practice. It is not the yardage as much as that the pool yardage is interval training and OW is OW..... no walls.... no stopping (maybe a little stopping for snacks with a long one like that).

You can always go to the meet, but don't expect much. Usually effected my friend 2-5 seconds per 100, so if it is still value added to attend a meet and go that much slower, then feel free.

CreamPuff
July 8th, 2008, 06:59 PM
I have a friend that used to do this swim and others that were MUCH longer. He was a 1650 NCAA finalist and was training 40-50k yards/week at the time in his early 30s. My feedback is based on how well he got back into it when we trained together.

You will need about 2 weeks to recover and do anything other than easy-moderate effort as far as practice. It is not the yardage as much as that the pool yardage is interval training and OW is OW..... no walls.... no stopping (maybe a little stopping for snacks with a long one like that).

You can always go to the meet, but don't expect much. Usually effected my friend 2-5 seconds per 100, so if it is still value added to attend a meet and go that much slower, then feel free.

Ouch! Thanks Big Al. Woa! And I'm NO ex-NCAA swimmer - much less a finalist. Thanks. Sort of like the reverse effect of the B70! Swim a 25K to add time to your meets. :lmao:

Colonies Zones anyone? Fort, you need to swim the 200 fly. It would be the only event that I *might* not get killed in. Crud! Did you know the kids are taking 3 weeks off in August? Not sure where the heck I'm going to train. And then I need a break! Gah!

I'll feel lucky if I finish in 6.5 hours. Am planning fuel and hydration for 8.

Diet/ fuel changes over the past 5 weeks or so - Just stopped using Gatorade and started using the Hammer products that I'll use in the OW swim. Specifically, I use Recoverite Recovery drink (it's really great); Heed sports drink; Hammer Gels; Sustained Energy paste also from Hammer. I've had great practices using this stuff. I also throw in endurolytes (electrolyte replacement) into the sports drink to prevent cramping.

geochuck
July 8th, 2008, 07:31 PM
Took lots of aspirin the night after the race.

I never went in the water the first day after a long race and the second day was basically a warm up and cool down swim of about 1500m, Next day was recovery swimming, a warm up, sprints 25s, 50s, and 100s and a warm down. Never doing hard distance swims. Day before the next race some very easy swimming about 800m. All the cramps etc gone then ready for the starters gun.

Just saw a report on recovery products half a banana and water all the electrolytes you need for recovery.

swimshark
July 9th, 2008, 07:09 AM
Thank you Alison! That's pretty much what I was thinking initially.
How's Jennifer these days? Is she competing in any tris?

Jenn's doing fine. I was able to see her last week ( a rare treat) at my grandmother's funeral. She didn't stop training, though. She and her other half are doing Lake Placid Ironman in a few weeks. While at my grandmother's condo she went swimming in their pool and fascinated/scared the over 60 guy in there doing his laps.

So are you doing Nats and then Zones, too? Wonder Woman!!

The kids I practice will take off for 5 weeks. I don't know how I will cope! Part of that time their kids going to Zones will be tapering and I will be with them for Nats taper. But once I get back from Nats, I'm on my own until around Sept 8th. Yuck!

Slid
July 9th, 2008, 07:27 AM
"Is this stupid to do?"

If you have to ask, the answer is always "Yes".
You can't realistically swim well in the meet, so why swim in it at all?

Sorry to play at grown ups and all - but I am much better at passing on good advice than following it.

CreamPuff
July 9th, 2008, 08:45 AM
Jenn's doing fine. I was able to see her last week ( a rare treat) at my grandmother's funeral. She didn't stop training, though. She and her other half are doing Lake Placid Ironman in a few weeks. While at my grandmother's condo she went swimming in their pool and fascinated/scared the over 60 guy in there doing his laps.

So are you doing Nats and then Zones, too? Wonder Woman!!

The kids I practice will take off for 5 weeks. I don't know how I will cope! Part of that time their kids going to Zones will be tapering and I will be with them for Nats taper. But once I get back from Nats, I'm on my own until around Sept 8th. Yuck!

I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. But please wish Jennifer the best of luck at Lake Placid. I can totally see her continuing to train (and scaring a few older swimmer folks with how fast she is!)

I'm doing the 25K OW (not Nats). I entered Senior State which is 5 days after the 25K (hence this thread), but I'm thinking that would be unwise. I may do Colonies Zones instead. BUT, like you, the USAS team I swim with is taking off 3 weeks in August. ARG! So I'm debating if I should just take off with them and then start the SC season or if I should keep training (with someone?!) and do one last Masters LC meet - that I can be rested for! YUCK is right!!! I'll miss those kids!

osterber
July 9th, 2008, 09:49 AM
To echo one or two other remarks... if you're asking in the first place, that's your first sign that it's a bad idea.

Since you're asking the question, my assumption is that this is the first time you've ever done a 25K open water race. What's the longest open water race you've done prior to this? How long did it take you to recover from that?

My wife ran her first marathon a year and change ago. She was doing lots of good training for it, getting up to (I think) an 18 mile training run. Her level of complete wipe-out after the 26 mile race was a couple orders of magnitude more than her fatigue after the 18 mile training run.

-Rick

SwimStud
July 9th, 2008, 09:50 AM
Sorry to play at grown ups and all - but I am much better at passing on good advice than following it.

Hehe Sandy, grown men wearing Speedos etc... I think you're preaching to the choir ;)

The Fortress
July 9th, 2008, 10:00 AM
BUT, like you, the USAS team I swim with is taking off 3 weeks in August. ARG! So I'm debating if I should just take off with them and then start the SC season or if I should keep training (with someone?!) and do one last Masters LC meet - that I can be rested for! YUCK is right!!! I'll miss those kids!

3 weeks off from USA swimming = taper. You can do it. Just hop in and do some race pace work and sprints. Or you could go to the gym. :P

tjrpatt
July 9th, 2008, 10:29 AM
Swim as much as you can the first week. The second week, start to cut back. Loose up, work on turns, work on starts if you can, pace work, etc. But, you can cut back on the meterage(I don't think that is a word) or yardage. of course, this is if you are planning to do this meet. If you don't do the last meet, just take it easy like the kids. But, stay in the pool if you can.

Donna
July 9th, 2008, 11:27 AM
I run into the same problem with the kids team not having practice from August 3-18 when the few that are left go to Junior Nats and then just taking time off. I have 2 weeks to train on my own but coach said he would provide me workouts appropriate for my taper and may even come in for some. But I will only be swimming 1 practice per day not my usual double.

While I am gone at Nationals not having practice doesn't matter, but when I get back they will be starting up again and so will I.

pwolf66
July 9th, 2008, 11:33 AM
I'm thinking that would be unwise. I may do Colonies Zones instead

Don't THINK, DO!!!!!

I know many of us would love to see you there!!! So please come swim. It's a beautiful, fast pool and we're planning on having a blast afterward.

Fort, you think you could survive another bash at Chez Fortress? I would be MORE than willing to help out.

Paul

CreamPuff
July 9th, 2008, 12:14 PM
Thanks Rick. Yes. I can't agree with good sense. I did have to ask. . . so. . . that says a lot!

Well, the longest swim I ever did was a 10K race about a month ago. It was a piece of cake and easier than my normal daily practice. Had zero recovery issues (got back in for Monday's practice with the kids without problem, swam regular practices, had a great meet a couple of weeks later.) However, I know I can't compare a 25K to a 10K. This is completely unknown territory. I think I will plan on being trashed.

When you say "complete wipe-out," I understand. Woa!


To echo one or two other remarks... if you're asking in the first place, that's your first sign that it's a bad idea.

Since you're asking the question, my assumption is that this is the first time you've ever done a 25K open water race. What's the longest open water race you've done prior to this? How long did it take you to recover from that?

My wife ran her first marathon a year and change ago. She was doing lots of good training for it, getting up to (I think) an 18 mile training run. Her level of complete wipe-out after the 26 mile race was a couple orders of magnitude more than her fatigue after the 18 mile training run.

-Rick

CreamPuff
July 9th, 2008, 12:16 PM
3 weeks off from USA swimming = taper. You can do it. Just hop in and do some race pace work and sprints. Or you could go to the gym. :P

You know what happens to us when we do 3 week tapers! :eek::eek::eek:
I'd rather do a 25K swim as opposed to a 3 week taper! :joker: Soooo much easier.

CreamPuff
July 9th, 2008, 12:18 PM
I run into the same problem with the kids team not having practice from August 3-18 when the few that are left go to Junior Nats and then just taking time off. I have 2 weeks to train on my own but coach said he would provide me workouts appropriate for my taper and may even come in for some. But I will only be swimming 1 practice per day not my usual double.

While I am gone at Nationals not having practice doesn't matter, but when I get back they will be starting up again and so will I.

So we're in a similar situation! Too bad you are too far away to train with me! I think we could create some doozy workouts. :woot:

2 weeks isn't too bad to be on your own. You'll do great - and stay in shape. I do love the beginning of the season - how some of those kids get that out of shape in 2 or 3 weeks is a mystery to me!

CreamPuff
July 9th, 2008, 12:23 PM
Don't THINK, DO!!!!!

I know many of us would love to see you there!!! So please come swim. It's a beautiful, fast pool and we're planning on having a blast afterward.

Fort, you think you could survive another bash at Chez Fortress? I would be MORE than willing to help out.

Paul

Thank you Paul. I'd love to meet you all as well. As I mentioned to Leslie, Jeff seems to run a tight ship over there and I really like that. I think the plan is to do the 25K, confirm that all body parts are accounted for post the swim, and then make some plane reservations provided nothing disastrous happens @ el loco swim.

SwimStud
July 9th, 2008, 12:30 PM
Thank you Paul. I'd love to meet you all as well. As I mentioned to Leslie, Jeff seems to run a tight ship over there and I really like that. I think the plan is to do the 25K, confirm that all body parts are accounted for post the swim, and then make some plane reservations provided nothing disastrous happens @ el loco swim.

Yay...we are SO worth it !!

CreamPuff
July 9th, 2008, 12:32 PM
Yay...we are SO worth it !!

:laugh2::laugh2: I have NO doubt about that!

The Fortress
July 9th, 2008, 01:08 PM
Don't THINK, DO!!!!!

I know many of us would love to see you there!!! So please come swim. It's a beautiful, fast pool and we're planning on having a blast afterward.

Fort, you think you could survive another bash at Chez Fortress? I would be MORE than willing to help out.

Paul

We could do another bash at Chez Fortress, although I do live rather far from said amazing pool. Or, we could go to Ledo's first and then do some beer gridging at my house with Cameraman/Zonesman Thornton capturing the festivities! Besides, (S)he and I will need beer to calm down the you-know-whats!

SwimStud
July 9th, 2008, 02:08 PM
We could do another bash at Chez Fortress, although I do live rather far from said amazing pool. Or, we could go to Ledo's first and then do some beer gridging at my house with Cameraman/Zonesman Thornton capturing the festivities! Besides, (S)he and I will need beer to calm down the you-know-whats!

Only if the pool is open and a "speedo" ban is in effect!