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View Full Version : Any estimates on how big Portland Nationals will be??



Its a slow show
July 10th, 2008, 11:12 AM
I will say 1021

swimshark
July 10th, 2008, 02:40 PM
1325

Paul Smith
July 10th, 2008, 07:44 PM
If its over a 1000 we'll most likely have some VERY long days...and probably not be swimming 6 events.

chowmi
July 10th, 2008, 08:35 PM
Is there a prize, like the "Guess How Many Gumballs" game? I say 1075.

That Guy
July 11th, 2008, 09:52 AM
My guess is 893. I'll be there so I've included myself in that number. I count as 11 people because I'm HUGE.

<-- Actual size!!!

geochuck
July 11th, 2008, 10:26 AM
I can tell you for sure there is going to be one there.

He is overweight but good looking. Swims with high elbows, he is slower than he used to be. He is criticized because his finish is on his thigh an does not kick enough.

When he dives in there is a big kur plunk. His turns will be a pull up style. If he finishes the 100 and able to get out before the next heet starts it will be a surprise.

You will see him in the elevator at his hotel with a sign around his neck saying invest in me. I need the money.

I will be there.

knelson
July 11th, 2008, 10:52 AM
I'm guessing right around the 1,000 mark based on past years. Let's say 969.

BillS
July 11th, 2008, 12:11 PM
I understand registration stood at about 980 as of yesterday. Sounds like the 6th event is at risk.

Donna
July 11th, 2008, 12:25 PM
What is the magic number for dropping the sixth event?

When I travel this far I really want to do 6 events.

david.margrave
July 11th, 2008, 03:10 PM
I marked my 6th event on sunday, my only event that day (50 free), so if they drop the 6th event I get to take off early.

justforfun
July 11th, 2008, 03:20 PM
Does anyone else think it may be time to reconsider how big we want Nationals to be? I know it's a balance between including everyone who wants to participate and keeping the meet a manageable size...

I can honestly say that Austin was the first nationals I've been to that I did not enjoy. Unfortunately, my prevailing memories from that experience are crowded warm ups, crowded deck, impossible warm up/cool down pool, very long days and difficult parking. I kept thinking, is this really how I want to spend vacation time?

FlyQueen
July 11th, 2008, 03:24 PM
I personally had a great time at Nationals. Not allowing everyone to participate goes against everything masters swimming stands for. I think it's great so many people are participating. It's a great opportunity to get to meet people that share the same passion.

pwolf66
July 11th, 2008, 03:41 PM
Does anyone else think it may be time to reconsider how big we want Nationals to be? I know it's a balance between including everyone who wants to participate and keeping the meet a manageable size...

I can honestly say that Austin was the first nationals I've been to that I did not enjoy. Unfortunately, my prevailing memories from that experience are crowded warm ups, crowded deck, impossible warm up/cool down pool, very long days and difficult parking. I kept thinking, is this really how I want to spend vacation time?

While I agree with the crowded conditions in the lanes, everything else just made for a wonderful meet. Also, I beleive that Austin was the 2nd largest Nationals ever behind Baltimore (I could be wrong, anyone know for sure?) so that might have contributed.

As for difficult parking? I didn't have much trouble parking on campus Sat or Sun but as for trying to park anywhere else? Yes, it was tough but trust me, it wasn't because USMS was there (or only because), there were so many activities going on in Austin at the same time, such as high school girl's volleyball tournament, Cinqo de Mayo, motorcyle rally (and they stayed in the same hotel as Poolraat and I), graduations not to mention several other smaller events that created a perfect storm of parking woes.

Paul

knelson
July 11th, 2008, 04:46 PM
I can honestly say that Austin was the first nationals I've been to that I did not enjoy.

That's interesting because I felt Austin was the most well-run Nationals I've been to. Yes, the pool was pushed to the limits of what it could reasonably accomodate, but otherwise everything was great.

justforfun
July 11th, 2008, 05:07 PM
Please don't misunderstand me...I love the facility and Austin is a cool place to hold the event. I'm not complaining that the meet was poorly run, only that the sheer number of people competing made many aspects of the meet unenjoyable for me. If I'm in the minority, so be it.

The point I wanted to discuss: where is the cut-off point? There is a point where the host facility simply cannot handle the traffic. In my opinion, SC Nationals met or exceeded that point. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want the meet to last until 7 or 8 at night. I know I wasn't the only one who had to skip his last event on Sunday because the meet went too late to catch a flight out of town.

The 6th event rule is one solution. Perhaps we should cap entries at the first 1500 to enter (with the number depending on the facility). Perhaps we should hold a West nationals and an East nationals. Maybe the Zone meets will become a bigger deal. Any other thoughts?

knelson
July 11th, 2008, 05:15 PM
Any other thoughts?

I guess my first thought would be that, in general, Nationals have not been getting bigger so there isn't really a need to change anything at this point.

Kurt Dickson
July 11th, 2008, 05:34 PM
[QUOTE Any other thoughts?[/QUOTE]

1) Don't let really old people swim the mile (saves hours).
2) Don't let really old people complete the 400 IM after they got disqualified on the first lap of butterfly (that would have saved 20 minutes from Woodland's nationals).:drown:
3) Let nonqualifiers compete and give legitimate times. Then seed the nonqualifiers into heats (still eligible for top 10). This way you wouldn't have one person in every heat sucking the timeline down.

scyfreestyler
July 11th, 2008, 06:31 PM
[QUOTE Any other thoughts?

1) Don't let really old people swim the mile (saves hours).
2) Don't let really old people complete the 400 IM after they got disqualified on the first lap of butterfly (that would have saved 20 minutes from Woodland's nationals).:drown:
3) Let nonqualifiers compete and give legitimate times. Then seed the nonqualifiers into heats (still eligible for top 10). This way you wouldn't have one person in every heat sucking the timeline down.[/QUOTE]

I've never been and had no idea how it worked for those who did not qualify. Your idea #3 seems to make far more sense.

SwimRobin
July 11th, 2008, 06:58 PM
Swimmers are already allowed to swim three events without having national qualifying times. In addition, those swimmers can place in the top ten in those events. I think we are already doing number 3, if I am reading and understanding the post correctly.

knelson
July 11th, 2008, 06:59 PM
3) Let nonqualifiers compete and give legitimate times. Then seed the nonqualifiers into heats (still eligible for top 10). This way you wouldn't have one person in every heat sucking the timeline down.

I've never been and had no idea how it worked for those who did not qualify. Your idea #3 seems to make far more sense.

I'm not sure I understand. Non-qualifiers can enter with realistic times now. You don't need to enter with a time under the cut (as long as you're only doing this for three or fewer events).

Peter Cruise
July 11th, 2008, 08:13 PM
The days will be fine in length, Oregon puts on a high quality show. Now, Baltimore was long days for LC and you won't see those numbers at this meet.

ALM
July 11th, 2008, 10:06 PM
From the USMS Rule Book:

Largest SC Nationals to date:
1987: Stanford, 2328
1999: Santa Clara, 2060
1993: Santa Clara, 2055
1995: Ft. Lauderdale, 1992
2003: Tempe, 1922
2008: Austin, 1865


Largest LC Nationals to date:
2000: Baltimore, 1380
1996: Ann Arbor, 1176
1992: Federal Way, 1150
2005: Mission Viejo, 1109
1993: Minneapolis, 1085
2004: Savannah, 1084

swoomer
July 11th, 2008, 10:12 PM
[QUOTE Any other thoughts?

1) Don't let really old people swim the mile (saves hours).
2) Don't let really old people complete the 400 IM after they got disqualified on the first lap of butterfly (that would have saved 20 minutes from Woodland's nationals).:drown:
3) Let nonqualifiers compete and give legitimate times. Then seed the nonqualifiers into heats (still eligible for top 10). This way you wouldn't have one person in every heat sucking the timeline down.[/quote]


Maybe you don't plan on getting really old or you plan on quitting before you are really old, but as one who will be really old sooner than most, I find these comments offensive.

Part of what I always take away from Nationals is the amazing feats of the "really old" swimmers who are there while their peers are in nursing homes or no longer among us. It's always inspiring to watch those who can barely walk on land move through the water at whatever pace. Masters swimming is many things to many people with no single component being more important or valuable than another.

Kurt Dickson
July 12th, 2008, 12:17 AM
I'm not sure I understand. Non-qualifiers can enter with realistic times now. You don't need to enter with a time under the cut (as long as you're only doing this for three or fewer events).

They are still seeded with their age-groups so theoretically you would have slower swimmers in each age-group. Again theoretically if you grouped slower swimmers together regardless of age then you wouldn't have one or two swimmers slowing entire heats (probably more of a factor with 400 IM, 800 Free, and 1500).

Here in AZ, many enter no time so they can be in the first heat which forces the slower swimmers into heat one and heat two (rather than just heat one)--thereby spreading out the pain--particularly pleasant when it is 110 degrees out.

knelson
July 12th, 2008, 12:22 AM
They are still seeded with their age-groups so theoretically you would have slower swimmers in each age-group. Again theoretically if you grouped slower swimmers together regardless of age then you wouldn't have one or two swimmers slowing entire heats (probably more of a factor with 400 IM, 800 Free, and 1500).

OK, got ya. However the long events are already seeded by time rather than age, but even with the shorter events those few seconds here and there add up over the course of a day so it probably would make some difference if all events were seeded like that.

Kurt Dickson
July 12th, 2008, 12:27 AM
1) Don't let really old people swim the mile (saves hours).
2) Don't let really old people complete the 400 IM after they got disqualified on the first lap of butterfly (that would have saved 20 minutes from Woodland's nationals).:drown:
3) Let nonqualifiers compete and give legitimate times. Then seed the nonqualifiers into heats (still eligible for top 10). This way you wouldn't have one person in every heat sucking the timeline down.


Maybe you don't plan on getting really old or you plan on quitting before you are really old, but as one who will be really old sooner than most, I find these comments offensive.

Part of what I always take away from Nationals is the amazing feats of the "really old" swimmers who are there while their peers are in nursing homes or no longer among us. It's always inspiring to watch those who can barely walk on land move through the water at whatever pace. Masters swimming is many things to many people with no single component being more important or valuable than another.[/QUOTE]

Offensive? My comments, as always, are mostly sarcastic and not to be taken too seriously. But maybe somebody should just delete this thread as it is getting out of hand.
Too each his own, but I am going to swim 'til I die; however, I certainly am not going to force anybody watch me do a 45 minute mile (I will hope to drop to 50s,100s, and 200s by then--but only if Paul Smith dies--otherwise I'm going back up to the 500 and 1000--cuz it's all about the glory for me).:whiteflag:

FlyQueen
July 12th, 2008, 01:32 AM
They are still seeded with their age-groups so theoretically you would have slower swimmers in each age-group. Again theoretically if you grouped slower swimmers together regardless of age then you wouldn't have one or two swimmers slowing entire heats (probably more of a factor with 400 IM, 800 Free, and 1500).

Here in AZ, many enter no time so they can be in the first heat which forces the slower swimmers into heat one and heat two (rather than just heat one)--thereby spreading out the pain--particularly pleasant when it is 110 degrees out.

I have been told that the time difference between seeding the meet only by seed time vs. by age then seed time amounts to about 20 minutes. USMS has looked into it in the past and I was very surprised that it really doesn't make much difference.

swimshark
July 12th, 2008, 06:31 AM
As of last night 1100 had entered and they were still coming in. So much for the 6th event would be my guess.

matysekj
July 12th, 2008, 09:52 AM
Just a wild guess, but I think the total will be right around 1127 :).

We're trying to get everything in order to post the roster and psych sheets by Monday morning.

swimshark
July 12th, 2008, 03:10 PM
Just a wild guess, but I think the total will be right around 1127 :).

We're trying to get everything in order to post the roster and psych sheets by Monday morning.

Gee, where did you get that "guess" from Jim? ;)

chowmi
July 12th, 2008, 11:38 PM
I think I won, did I win???!!! Skimmed back over the thread and unless I missed someone else's guess, yours truly won! And assuming swimshark was informing the 1100 mark and not submitting a blind guess.

Do I get the dispenser with the gumballs?

swimshark
July 13th, 2008, 07:06 AM
I think I won, did I win???!!! Skimmed back over the thread and unless I missed someone else's guess, yours truly won! And assuming swimshark was informing the 1100 mark and not submitting a blind guess.

Do I get the dispenser with the gumballs?

Jim's got the right number last I heard but paper ones were still coming in, I think. But so far, you're the winner.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.candyfavorites.com/pi/kingsize03034.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.candyfavorites.com/Jumbo-Gumball-Dispenser-pr-2210.html&h=350&w=300&sz=15&hl=en&start=34&um=1&tbnid=NrWyH2aFH638gM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgumballs%26start%3D21%26ndsp%3D21%26u m%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us%26sa%3DN

matysekj
July 13th, 2008, 11:20 PM
The meet roster and psych sheets and the sixth event decision will be posted some time tomorrow (Monday the 14th). It may be later in the day. We're still working on cleaning up some entries and checking it all out.

FlyQueen
July 13th, 2008, 11:46 PM
Yeah! Thanks for all the hard work Jim & co. Can't wait to see who is showing up and if I am going to bail on one of my events or not ... :drown:

Blackbeard's Peg
July 14th, 2008, 01:02 AM
Looks like we need some work on cut/paste so these quotes show up properly...

Any other thoughts?
Anyways, I do have a thought.
Austin ran so long on Sunday that some heats of the 100 free (last event of the meet) had 1 or 2 people swimming. This, however, is not an unusual occurance, but was more present at that meet than I've ever seen. Every National or large zone meet I have ever been to has always had this occur in abundance on the last day - especially for the later events.
A positive check-in for ALL events on Sunday could prove to be very helpful from a time perspective. This way, regular scratchers can scratch w/o guilt; people too hungover can scratch w/o anyone knowing; and people leaving town can scratch w/o whatever they'd be with if they swam.
Oregon is pretty smart - they've got check-in for all events 200 and up. Sunday, 1/2 the events are positive check-in (w400free, 2fly, 2br). I bet they save at least 30 minutes on the 200s; and I bet we'll be seeing more of the 200+ check-ins at future national meets.

knelson
July 14th, 2008, 01:33 AM
A positive check-in for ALL events on Sunday could prove to be very helpful from a time perspective.

It would help, of course one problem is the people with flights out aren't going to know for sure if they'll be able to make their event or not until AFTER the heats are seeded. There could still be lots of no-shows because people won't want to scratch if there's a chance they will get to swim.

Donna
July 14th, 2008, 07:54 AM
That is why if you plan to swim late Sunday it is best to fly out Monday. I always take the extra day off so that I don't feel rushed.

geochuck
July 14th, 2008, 08:45 AM
May be I could help to make the meet move along much faster. I could drop out of one or 2 of my events.

some_girl
July 14th, 2008, 09:09 AM
Anyways, I do have a thought.
Austin ran so long on Sunday that some heats of the 100 free (last event of the meet) had 1 or 2 people swimming. This, however, is not an unusual occurance, but was more present at that meet than I've ever seen.

Part of that in Austin, I think, was the fact that it is a smallish airport, and the last flight out for a lot of destinations was around 5. The other two Nationals I've been to (Seattle and Coral Springs) had a lot more flight choice. Like you said, it still happens, but I think that was why it was extra bad.

geochuck
July 14th, 2008, 09:56 PM
Still want to see who is entered. It is Monday, July, 14th. I want to know who I have to try and beat. Maybe I won't have to swim too fast???

Paul Smith
July 14th, 2008, 11:07 PM
It'd going to be a big, long meet with only 5 events each..but look at it this way..it's Portland, its a great facility, lots of fun people there (thankfully not Geek)....and on a personal note Chris & Hulk will have to buy me beer and I get to trash Swimmer Bill's house!

david.margrave
July 14th, 2008, 11:24 PM
Did they make the 6th event decision yet? I don't see it posted. The last post makes it sound like it's been decided.

matysekj
July 14th, 2008, 11:24 PM
The meet roster (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats08/heats/roster.php) and psych sheet (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats08/heats/) are out. George, here's your specific entry info (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats08/heats/swimmerdetails.php?s=6015) (from the handy swimmer lookup (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats08/heats/lookup.php) featurre).

The decision has been made to drop the sixth event due to the large number of entries (1130 swimmers) and expected long days. The estimated time line will be posted by Monday, July 21.

geochuck
July 14th, 2008, 11:40 PM
Thanks Jim.

swimshark
July 15th, 2008, 07:39 AM
It'd going to be a big, long meet with only 5 events each..but look at it this way..it's Portland, its a great facility, lots of fun people there (thankfully not Geek)....and on a personal note Chris & Hulk will have to buy me beer and I get to trash Swimmer Bill's house!

And getting to meet me, Paul, should be reason enough to go :)

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 07:43 AM
I'm guessing 1130 but I could be wrong :drink::drink::drink:

geochuck
July 15th, 2008, 08:15 AM
Can anyone tell me is there a swim up bar. I have gotten used to a shot of something after every 50.

Chris Stevenson
July 15th, 2008, 09:35 AM
....and on a personal note Chris & Hulk will have to buy me beer and I get to trash Swimmer Bill's house!

Dreamer.

Since 200 free was my 6th event and has been dropped, the only event we have in common is the 100 fly. We can have a side beer bet (and, much more importantly, bragging rights) on straight-up time...

JMiller
July 15th, 2008, 10:02 AM
Hey Chris,

Are we going to see 3 LC world records? (Make sure the video is posted) I think you'll get it done, you're a professor with a steady hand... When do you turn 45 by the way?


We can have a side beer bet (and, much more importantly, bragging rights) on straight-up time...

geochuck
July 15th, 2008, 10:16 AM
Are there any updates on world records by age other then these ones

Long Course http://www.fina.org/project/docs/masters/rec_LC_nov07_detail.pdf

Short Course http://www.fina.org/project/docs/masters/rec_SC_nov07_detail.pdf

knelson
July 15th, 2008, 10:21 AM
I hope the lights are good at the pool. Looking at the number of entries in the distance events Thursday the final heat of the men's 1500 will probably finish somewhere around 10:00 p.m.

Chris Stevenson
July 15th, 2008, 10:40 AM
Are we going to see 3 LC world records? (Make sure the video is posted) I think you'll get it done, you're a professor with a steady hand... When do you turn 45 by the way?

Highly doubtful.

I was born in 1964 so I'll be 45 by FINA rules next year.

I don't own a video camera, sorry! The postings from that one meet were from a friend who took them, unasked (I would never ask him or anyone else to film my funky strokes).

But -- speaking of videos -- you know how they have the blue line showing WR pace when they show swimming on TV? I would love it if, when I swim the 100 fly, they could arrange to have that line on the bottom of the pool, showing Paul Smith's 100 fly progress.

geochuck
July 15th, 2008, 10:51 AM
Chris , I have 4 video cameras, I will be sure and catch your swim. Go fast.

JMiller
July 15th, 2008, 11:13 AM
Stay modest, that's the way to get it done, for sure.

It was swimstud who recorded your SCM WR's, isn't that right?
The 100 fly WR LCM is held by Paul Carter... Smith only has the 50, which is pretty fast...


Highly doubtful.

I was born in 1964 so I'll be 45 by FINA rules next year.

I don't own a video camera, sorry! The postings from that one meet were from a friend who took them, unasked (I would never ask him or anyone else to film my funky strokes).

But -- speaking of videos -- you know how they have the blue line showing WR pace when they show swimming on TV? I would love it if, when I swim the 100 fly, they could arrange to have that line on the bottom of the pool, showing Paul Smith's 100 fly progress.

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2008, 11:15 AM
Dreamer.

Since 200 free was my 6th event and has been dropped, the only event we have in common is the 100 fly. We can have a side beer bet (and, much more importantly, bragging rights) on straight-up time...

Straight up? I'm a senior citizen and you want to race straight up? 1 second seems fair...

Chris Stevenson
July 15th, 2008, 11:26 AM
Straight up? I'm a senior citizen and you want to race straight up? 1 second seems fair...

Riiiight, old man, I'll be giving you one second after you just went 59.0 unrested. Are you really that hard up for free beer? I'll give you 0.1 sec for each year you give up...if you give me 0.1 sec for each inch I give up.

Jonathan, the videos were recorded and posted by Dave Holland, whom I train with here in Richmond.

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 11:36 AM
Hey Chris,

When do you turn 45 by the way?

Not soon enough :whiteflag::whiteflag::whiteflag:

At least Mark Gill aged up to my age group now. So I have someone to aim for who is slightly faster than me. As opposed to watching most people's (Chris, Steve H, Ross, etc.) feet after the first length.

Paul

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 12:00 PM
and on a personal note Chris & Hulk will have to buy me beer

Did I miss a memo here? I don't recall being on the hook for providing you beverages, Paul. Now, we get a wager going, then that's a horse of a different colour. What could we do? My 50 free versus your 50 Breast? Nope, your not doing 50 Br. My 100 free versus your 100 fly? (hmm, that one might be close but I still think I'd lose by about a second). My 50 Fr versus yours, most under seed?

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Did I miss a memo here? I don't recall being on the hook for providing you beverages, Paul. Now, we get a wager going, then that's a horse of a different colour. What could we do? My 50 free versus your 50 Breast? Nope, your not doing 50 Br. My 100 free versus your 100 fly? (hmm, that one might be close but I still think I'd lose by about a second). My 50 Fr versus yours, most under seed?

Hulkster...is alzheimers setting in? Remember this little chat:

July 1st, 2008, 07:33 AM #21
pwolf66
Very Active Member
Hulk
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Montgomery Village, MD
Posts: 915
Re: Masters Swimming

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So since I didn't swim would that put my times ~ infinite?

If so I want in!!!!

Well, I want in anyway. Beer is good.

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Hulkster...is alzheimers setting in? Remember this little chat:

July 1st, 2008, 07:33 AM #21
pwolf66
Very Active Member
Hulk
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Montgomery Village, MD
Posts: 915
Re: Masters Swimming

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So since I didn't swim would that put my times ~ infinite?

If so I want in!!!!

Well, I want in anyway. Beer is good.

I've slept several times since then :wine:

And to clarify, I didn't swim LCM last year, nor do I have any LCM times, so what does that mean, exactly? Time drop from estimated seed time? Do I need to bring the results from this week's LCM meet with me? I am swimming the 50 Free and Fly this Sunday. But that is after swimming the 400 Free :frustrated::frustrated:

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2008, 02:23 PM
I've slept several times since then :wine:

And to clarify, I didn't swim LCM last year, nor do I have any LCM times, so what does that mean, exactly? Time drop from estimated seed time? Do I need to bring the results from this week's LCM meet with me? I am swimming the 50 Free and Fly this Sunday. But that is after swimming the 400 Free :frustrated::frustrated:

Not that I ever have an opinion on anything...BUT...I would suggest scratching the 400 and focus on the 50's. Your not swimming the 400 at nationals, the 50's require far more practice to be at 100%.

So here's the bet...my fly vs. your free and I spot you 1.5 seconds. Loser buys one very cold, tasty and expensive beer.

The Fortress
July 15th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Not that I ever have an opinion on anything...BUT...I would suggest scratching the 400 and focus on the 50's. Your not swimming the 400 at nationals, the 50's require far more practice to be at 100%.

So here's the bet...my fly vs. your free and I spot you 1.5 seconds. Loser buys one very cold, tasty and expensive beer.

I already told him that, but he doesn't listen well!

Good luck to everyone in Portland! Wish I could be there.

Chris Stevenson
July 15th, 2008, 02:48 PM
And to clarify, I didn't swim LCM last year, nor do I have any LCM times, so what does that mean, exactly? Time drop from estimated seed time? Do I need to bring the results from this week's LCM meet with me?

...you're taking this way too seriously... :)

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 02:52 PM
...you're taking this way too seriously... :)

Um, is there any other way when dealing with a wager with Mr Smith. If you don't CLEARLY nail him down, he'll wiggle out of it.

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 02:56 PM
Not that I ever have an opinion on anything...BUT...I would suggest scratching the 400 and focus on the 50's. Your not swimming the 400 at nationals, the 50's require far more practice to be at 100%.

So here's the bet...my fly vs. your free and I spot you 1.5 seconds. Loser buys one very cold, tasty and expensive beer.

The 400 is a warmup and I hope that my inner demon gets with the program of nice and easy and slowly build by 100. Goal here is anything under 5:30 :cane:

As for the beer, you're on. That should be a close one. Since I padded my converted time by .5sec, let's make it one second. Still, if I was a betting man, I would put it on you but........

david.margrave
July 15th, 2008, 03:01 PM
I'm up for a race. Pwolf, it looks like our 400 free times aren't too far apart.

my actual LCM times (in 110 degree heat)

200 free 2:25.15
400 free 5:20.12
100 fly 1:13.09

my converted from SCY times

100 free 1:02.03
1500 free 21:03.75

geochuck
July 15th, 2008, 03:18 PM
And I have to race
Graham Johnston, I have raced him before. He swam in the 1954 Commonwealth games and the 1956 Olympics when I competed. I beat him in a 2 mile race in Lake Ontario, he looks pretty fast right now.

Yoshi Oyakawa, met him at a beach party in Hawaii on the way to the 1956 Olympics

John Grave raced him in 1998.

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 03:42 PM
I'm up for a race. Pwolf, it looks like our 400 free times aren't too far apart.

my actual LCM times (in 110 degree heat)

200 free 2:25.15
400 free 5:20.12
100 fly 1:13.09

my converted from SCY times

100 free 1:02.03
1500 free 21:03.75

Well, the 4Free time was a complete guess as I have not yet swam any thing over 200 SCY as a master (got back in the pool 15 Sep 2007 after 21 years off). And that was once. But sure, want to go 100 Free? I spot you 1.5 seconds?

Paul

david.margrave
July 15th, 2008, 04:57 PM
But sure, want to go 100 Free? I spot you 1.5 seconds?

Paul

I looked up your time, 1.5 seconds is right on. This will be a fair match.

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2008, 05:02 PM
The 400 is a warmup

Wrong...it will mean a "tighten up" for your 50's. This ain't SCY my friend, no walls to hide on, very lonely out there 15m from the wall saying to myself "I'm a sprinter, why did I think swimming a 400 LCM would loosen me up)" :dedhorse:

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Wrong...it will mean a "tighten up" for your 50's. This ain't SCY my friend, no walls to hide on, very lonely out there 15m from the wall saying to myself "I'm a sprinter, why did I think swimming a 400 LCM would loosen me up)" :dedhorse:

You might be right, I might be crazy.

I signed up, I'm gonna do the Bataan Death march like a man. I am actually looking forward to it. There should be at least 2 hours between that and the 50 Free so I should be OK. But it comes down to not going more than about 80% effort. If I can do that, I should be fine but that's a huge-A$$ IF :roids:

scyfreestyler
July 15th, 2008, 05:31 PM
You might be right, I might be crazy.

I signed up, I'm gonna do the Bataan Death march like a man. I am actually looking forward to it. There should be at least 2 hours between that and the 50 Free so I should be OK. But it comes down to not going more than about 80% effort. If I can do that, I should be fine but that's a huge-A$$ IF :roids:

Who goes to Nationals to put forth 80% effort? I myself would have a hard time holding back in any race and would likely wind up hammering out the best race I could muster.

Skip the 400 and go for the glory in your signature events! :applaud:

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2008, 05:38 PM
I am actually looking forward to it. There should be at least 2 hours between that and the 50 Free so I should be OK.

You have officially "outed" yourself...you are NOT a sprinter with this kind of thinking. To refresh your memory:
http://swimming.flocasts.org/videos/speaker/713-bottom-mike

Scratch the 400, get your "warm up" in warm up, lay around for those two hours like a cat...then go kill the 50's!

The Fortress
July 15th, 2008, 05:46 PM
I had a laugh telling a USA coach this weekend that I train like a cat, not a dog.

The Bataan Death March?! Swim warrior or sprinter, eh?

scyfreestyler
July 15th, 2008, 05:47 PM
Meow.

knelson
July 15th, 2008, 05:52 PM
Who goes to Nationals to put forth 80% effort?

Paul isn't swimming the 400 at Nationals. I believe he's talking about another meet before Nats where he entered the 400.

scyfreestyler
July 15th, 2008, 05:54 PM
Paul isn't swimming the 400 at Nationals. I believe he's talking about another meet before Nats where he entered the 400.

My mistake. :wave:

Chris Stevenson
July 15th, 2008, 06:41 PM
And I have to race
Graham Johnston, I have raced him before. He swam in the 1954 Commonwealth games and the 1956 Olympics when I competed. I beat him in a 2 mile race in Lake Ontario, he looks pretty fast right now.

Yeah, pretty fast...! He was in our neck of the woods for the cable OW national championships. He swam the 1-mile race at 8am and took almost EIGHT MINUTES off the existing national record (he went 27:13).

Then he swam the 2-mile race at 9am. He must have been a little tired because he ONLY took 4 1/2 minutes off the national record (with 56:24).

That's who I want to be in 30+ years, what a stud. :bow:

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Paul isn't swimming the 400 at Nationals. I believe he's talking about another meet before Nats where he entered the 400.
4Free LCM at NATS?? Yeah, I want to humiliate myself in front of 1129 other swimmers (not to mention thier friends, the officials, anyone in a plane flying over, spy satellites, etc.)

/Mr Hand
What are you people? on DOPE?
/Mr Hand

No, this is in a local LCM meet this Sunday. My desire was to swim the 50 Free and Fly for sure and preferably either the 1Back or 1Free but the event order was truely bad. So I'm doing the 4Free as a 'warm up', it's the 1st event of the day. I don't plan on actually getting in the pool before it. My goal is to be under 5:30. So here's my plan:

First 100 1:24 - this past Monday I easily cruised a 1:20.
2nd: 1:22
3rd: 1:20
4th: 1:20

Puts me in at right about 5:26. That puts me at about 70% effort with regards to a sprint 100.

Nice thing about my plan is that with only 50s to go after than, walls don't matter.

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2008, 08:27 PM
4Free LCM at NATS?? Yeah, I want to humiliate myself in front of 1129 other swimmers (not to mention thier friends, the officials, anyone in a plane flying over, spy satellites, etc.)

/Mr Hand
What are you people? on DOPE?
/Mr Hand

No, this is in a local LCM meet this Sunday. My desire was to swim the 50 Free and Fly for sure and preferably either the 1Back or 1Free but the event order was truely bad. So I'm doing the 4Free as a 'warm up', it's the 1st event of the day. I don't plan on actually getting in the pool before it. My goal is to be under 5:30. So here's my plan:

First 100 1:24 - this past Monday I easily cruised a 1:20.
2nd: 1:22
3rd: 1:20
4th: 1:20

Puts me in at right about 5:26. That puts me at about 70% effort with regards to a sprint 100.

Nice thing about my plan is that with only 50s to go after than, walls don't matter.

No such thing as swimming a 400 in a meet as a warm-up (thats what warm ups are for before the meet)....Dreamer! Call me and let me know how great your kick was the last 5m of both your 50's.

pwolf66
July 15th, 2008, 08:31 PM
No such thing as swimming a 400 in a meet as a warm-up (thats what warm ups are for before the meet)....Dreamer! Call me and let me know how great your kick was the last 5m of both your 50's.

Paul, I never said it was a GOOD plan. This isn't a very good pool so I doubt I'll be doing any really fast swimming anyway. Everyone I talk to talks about warm water, hot pool deck, hairballs and shallow water.

david.margrave
July 17th, 2008, 12:00 AM
It looks like George and Graham will race in the 50 fly and 100 free. I'll be sure to watch.

Allen Stark
July 17th, 2008, 12:31 AM
I swam with Graham when I lived in Houston.He is an incredibly nice guy.Talk about endurance,he doesn't slow down.:banana:.I see that young whippersnapper Rick Colella is driving down I-5 to make my life miserable(but gee it's fun to race fast swimmers,especially Olympians.)

knelson
July 17th, 2008, 12:40 AM
I see that young whippersnapper Rick Colella is driving down I-5 to make my life miserable(but gee it's fun to race fast swimmers,especially Olympians.)

Also a nice guy. I met him in Austin and even swam on a relay with him. It looks like this time Tim Shead won't be there to race him, so we'll be counting on you, Allen, to make things interesting for him!

geochuck
July 17th, 2008, 12:44 AM
George is still working on being able to finish 25 meters of fly.

Blackbeard's Peg
July 17th, 2008, 09:04 AM
paul needs to swim that 400 free this weekend.
his inner competitive self will get the better of him, as he will howl through the water as fast as he can so that he can say his 400 is not over 1 minute slower than mine.
besides, it will be good endurance work for his 100, so that next year, puny distance-loving muppets won't make big hulky sprinter look like he's standing still.

pwolf66
July 17th, 2008, 10:14 AM
BP


:thhbbb: :thhbbb: :thhbbb: :thhbbb:

If the first 100 is faster than 1:20, then I am an idiot.

Big AL
July 17th, 2008, 01:01 PM
I would suggest scratching the 400 and focus on the 50's.

A 400 is not a good "warm-up" nor a good "ice breaker". At smaller meets I prefer to start with an unimportant event to get the butterflies out of the way.

In this case, I would get a good pre-meet warm-up in as usual, but since you are already entered, maybe swim the first 100 of the 400 at 80-90% to test the walls/flags.... test the routine.... then just get out... no big deal... I love the options as a Masters swimmer.

Then, cool down, rest, and focus on the 50 speed for later.

Blackbeard's Peg
July 18th, 2008, 12:03 AM
A 400 is not a good "warm-up" nor a good "ice breaker". At smaller meets I prefer to start with an unimportant event to get the butterflies out of the way.

I agree with you on the first sentence. As for meet order, I think that is a bad idea. I'd rather not start a meet off on the wrong foot then have the rest of the meet hit the crapper. What happens when your favorite event is the very first event at nationals (I know your example was smaller meet)? It is always nice to have a throwaway to get the blood flowing, but there will come a time where you need to get rid of those butterflies the second you walk in the building, and then go swim your ass off right from the start. Why not prepare for it?

SwimSF
July 18th, 2008, 01:42 AM
http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats08/heats/

Psych sheets are up!!!!

Iwannafly
July 19th, 2008, 09:16 PM
Riiiight, old man, I'll be giving you one second after you just went 59.0 unrested. Are you really that hard up for free beer? I'll give you 0.1 sec for each year you give up...if you give me 0.1 sec for each inch I give up.

Jonathan, the videos were recorded and posted by Dave Holland, whom I train with here in Richmond.
Hey Chris,
Were you rested for the 59.3 you went on Friday? Nice swimming by the way. There are some fast times going up at the Virginia Swimming LC Senior Championships.
One of the kids from Lynchburg took second in the 100 breast and some of the local kids have had significant drops in time!
Good luck in your events tomorrow.

Chris Stevenson
July 19th, 2008, 09:57 PM
Hey Chris,
Were you rested for the 59.3 you went on Friday? Nice swimming by the way. There are some fast times going up at the Virginia Swimming LC Senior Championships.
One of the kids from Lynchburg took second in the 100 breast and some of the local kids have had significant drops in time!
Good luck in your events tomorrow.

Thanks, TJ. No, not rested -- heck, I did 2 OW races 5 days before the meet, not exactly my usual taper plan -- but I did stay off the bike this week to save my legs a little and I have switched weights to maintenance mode.

Yes, the meet's been pretty deep this year, on the boy's side anyway. The top guys aren't completely rested, though at nationals I'll have to tell Jeff Utsch that his 24-year-old meet record in the 400 free was broken tonight.

I am also trying out the B70 for the first time. I was actually much less pleased with how it felt on fly than on the long-axis strokes. I was happy with the 200 free and 100 back. 200 back is tomorrow but I am exhausted. This trials/finals stuff is for the young, for me it is like I've had 4 meets in two days, with two more to go. I'm basically looking at it like training; 3 days at nationals is nothing by comparison.

Iwannafly
July 20th, 2008, 07:18 AM
Yes, the meet's been pretty deep this year, on the boy's side anyway. The top guys aren't completely rested, though at nationals I'll have to tell Jeff Utsch that his 24-year-old meet record in the 400 free was broken tonight.
Wow, 4:02 is pretty quick. It's amazing that the record stood for 24 years.


I am also trying out the B70 for the first time. I was actually much less pleased with how it felt on fly than on the long-axis strokes. I was happy with the 200 free and 100 back. 200 back is tomorrow but I am exhausted. This trials/finals stuff is for the young, for me it is like I've had 4 meets in two days, with two more to go. I'm basically looking at it like training; 3 days at nationals is nothing by comparison.
Did the B70 give you that extra 2%?;) Good luck today in your 200 back. I also saw that you swam the fly leg in the 400 MR, which finished in 2nd place. Enjoy the rest of your meet.

T.J.