800m and 1500m free at the Olympics

[david.margrave]

Why is there no men's 800m and no women's 1500m free?

[abc]

All swimming distances are arbitrary. I'm sure there's some historical reasoning, but it still won't justify the selection of distances. Where's the 50m breastroke, the 150m freestyle or 400m backstroke? Why are pools 50m instead of 60m? Why not a 3000m freestyle? Because a decision had to be made somewhere and it's what we're stuck with. It's like asking why are American football fields 100 yards instead of 120? It is what it is. There will be those who talk about time constraints for a meet or how the consititution of women may have been viewed as weaker (way back when) so they only got an 800. In the end, you have to choose from what's available and the selection of events never pretended to be rationally justified. By the way, I'm the world record holder in the 112.5m butterfrog, so I'm like an authority on these things.

[osterber]

I think it's unfortunately for the same "reasons" that women's tennis plays 3 sets, and men play 5. It would be just inhumane to ask our female athletes to have that kind of stamina to match that of our big strong burly macho men. I mean, they've got to finish up more quickly so they can get back home to the kitchen and child-rearing and laundry. Argh. Old sterotypes die hard I guess.

It really is a shame. Now, it would be tricky to fit the 400, 800, and 1500 frees into an Olympic program, with prelims, semis (400) and finals. That's a lot of swimming for the distance people. But we shouldn't be restricting based on gender. It's embarassing IMHO.

-Rick

[tjburk]

Women can't handle the 1500.....and the men are leaving the 800 to the women so they can say they do a little distance!!!:mooning::mooning:

Just kidding of course....it's definitely a soar subject with some women.... rightfully so if I may say so.....

[pwolf66]

Um, I think he was asking why don't the men have an 800 Free event and the women an 1500 event in the Olympics? Which is something that I have always wondered. Seems a huge jump for the men 400 and then 1500. Plus I am QUITE sure that there are quite a few women MORE than capable of going fast in the 1500.

[phdude]

i think there's a pretty easy solution to all this: eliminate semi-finals. this will save so much time that we would be able to add 800 Free for men, 1500m free for women, and 50's of all strokes. also 4x50FR and 4x50Medley relays for both sexes :)

[knelson]

also 4x50FR and 4x50Medley relays

If we get those I want a 4x200 medley relay as well.

I just assumed the women have "always" swum the 800 at the Olympics and the men the 1500, but this isn't really the case. The 800 has only been on the women's program since 1968. Before that the longest women's event was the 400! The 1500 has been on the men's program since 1904.

I think the obvious answer to David's question is fairly simple: sexism.

[gobears]

The 800 has only been on the women's program since 1968. Before that the longest women's event was the 400! The 1500 has been on the men's program since 1904.


And, yet, some of us want to go back to the 1950's. ;) I hope Elise isn't a distance freestyler :wave:

[elise526]

And, yet, some of us want to go back to the 1950's. ;) I hope Elise isn't a distance freestyler :wave:

No, but my mother was. She competed in a 3 mile open water swim held at Callaway Gardens in the 1950s, and yes there was a women's division. No women's swimming program where she went to college, so she just swam with the guys - 1956 to 1959, while majoring in biology and chemistry. Also, forgot to mention, she swam the morning she got married to relieve stress - 1959. ;)

Female triathletes will swim 1500 meters at the Olympics and that is just 1/3 of the race. I don't get it.

[The Fortress]

Also, forgot to mention, she swam the morning she got married to relieve stress - 1959. ;)

Hey, whatcha know, my Mom get married in 1959 too. At age 19, to my Dad, who had just graduated from a college that didn't admit women where he drank beer at the "animal house" fraternity. Forgot to mention, those facts don't capture who they were when they grew up in the slightest. :thhbbb:

[elise526]

Hey, whatcha know, my Mom get married in 1959 too. At age 19, to my Dad, who had just graduated from a college that didn't admit women where he drank beer at the "animal house" fraternity. Forgot to mention, those facts don't capture who they were when they grew up in the slightest. :thhbbb:

Not sure what you mean by what they did when they "grew up," but my "grown up" mother has a Ph.D in fungal physiology and is internationally recognized for her work in pesticides. How's that for a woman that went to college in the "miserable" 1950s?

Forgot to mention - she's from the Land of Mayberry. Best thing I ever heard her say was that she was going to hang on to her southern accent as long as she was alive because she felt it to be an asset in a man's world. Seems to have worked! (You can go ahead and belch now!). ;)

Back to the 1500, this event is made for women! C'mon FINA!

[The Fortress]

You can go ahead and belch now!). ;)

Back to the 1500, this event is made for women! C'mon FINA!

No belching just yet! I'm neglecting my children so I can go make like Hulk and Jazz.

I wish they had the 800 and 1500 for both men and women. And our local fav, Ziegler, would've had a much better shot at gold in the 1500.

[elise526]

Hey, whatcha know, my Mom get married in 1959 too. At age 19, to my Dad, who had just graduated from a college that didn't admit women where he drank beer at the "animal house" fraternity. Forgot to mention, those facts don't capture who they were when they grew up in the slightest. :thhbbb:

Shama Lama Ding Dong! Even if the time period was not an opportune time for women, don't you just love the music from the late 50s and early 60s?

Back to the 1500, maybe it is not available to women for the same reason only two slots are allowed in swimming. May not be FINA's view towards women but FINA's concern that a certain country may dominate the event.

[knelson]

I don't think the results of an 800 would be much different than the 1500. Odds are the same swimmers would medal in both.

Another post discussed adding stroke 50s and 4x50 relays. I'd much rather see men and women both get to swim the 800 AND 1500 first. The Olympics are already skewed to favor sprinters.

[That Guy]

I don't think the results of an 800 would be much different than the 1500. Odds are the same swimmers would medal in both.

Gotta disagree there. Ian Thorpe held the world record in the LCM 800 for 4 years but very rarely swam the 1500.

[tjrpatt]

Not having the 1500 at the Olympics sucks for Katie Ziegler because she is the fastest woman to swim that event. It is a shame that she can't showcase that at the Olympics. She will probably just medal in the 400 and 800 free where she could have gotten a gold medal in the 1500 at the Olympics. They could spread the swimming out one more day for the men's 800 and women's 1500.

[LindsayNB]

To be fair to FINA they offer the 800 and 1500 to both sexes at Worlds, I think it is the IOC that doesn't want to add more pool events.

[elise526]

To be fair to FINA they offer the 800 and 1500 to both sexes at Worlds, I think it is the IOC that doesn't want to add more pool events.

You make a good point. Who actually made the decision about limiting swimming to two slots? Is it the IOC or FINA that has made the decision about the 1500 at Olympics? Now that I am thinking about it, it would make more sense that it would be the IOC.

[Chris Stevenson]

You make a good point. Who actually made the decision about limiting swimming to two slots? Is it the IOC or FINA that has made the decision about the 1500 at Olympics? Now that I am thinking about it, it would make more sense that it would be the IOC.

It doesn't really bother me that they limit the distance slots, I do think there would be a lot of redundancy and there are enough freestyle events already.

But I see no reason the distances should be different for men and women, they should just have the 1500 for both genders.

[LindsayNB]

With the 10k race we've got enough freestyle events. Have the women swim 1500 free and add the 800IM for both sexes.

[mctrusty]

With the 10k race we've got enough freestyle events. Have the women swim 1500 free and add the 800IM for both sexes.

The 800 IM, now yer talkin!

[phdude]

i think a 400 fly would be great as well, just to see phelps lap the entire final heat.