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lapswimmr
April 6th, 2003, 09:57 PM
I like to swim with fins some days, I have the zoomers and some regular fins. I notice when I swim finless that I feel slow as a snail.If I have been using the fins for a couple of days. I know some swimmers that only use fins as thats the only way they have been able to learn, to them I say great what ever works for exercise but have noted to them that they should at least be able to swim finless to get out of the pool for safety if they fell into water anywhere.

UKswimmer
April 7th, 2003, 08:25 AM
I see fins as a swim tool like a kick board/pull bouy etc. It is easy for some to become too use to using them in the same way some become too dependant on pull buoys. I use fins for isloated sets eg. kick sets or use them during technique practice for fly, but not during any other set.

BRL
January 24th, 2011, 05:16 PM
Very tempted to try them...but like pull-bouys..I think they artificially make swimming easier...and if over utilized tend to give one the illusion that they are faster and in better shape than they actually are. For example..When I see this person averaging over 9000 yards a day on the most recent GTD stats...I certainly wonder how much of that is accomplished with fins/artificial(?)...To each their own...I however do not want to kid myself or anyone else.

orca1946
January 24th, 2011, 06:28 PM
Extra toys. IMHO, should not count when totaling yards / day.

The Fortress
January 24th, 2011, 07:13 PM
Extra toys. IMHO, should not count when totaling yards / day.

This is ridiculous. I would say something else, but I don't want to trouble Jim M. to have to scold me.

There are numerous prior threads on fins.

There are numerous benefits to using fins. All elite coaches use them. Typically, it is best to have a specific purpose in mind when using them, not just mindlessly throw them on (unless you have a shoulder problem).

AnnG
January 25th, 2011, 05:00 AM
I love my fins. I tend to just kick with them, not too much swimming. With the zoomers a person can swim and not have your stroke be distorted by using a long fin. I credit the fin use with helping me develop a very good sdk.

Danielle
January 25th, 2011, 06:45 PM
I generally only use fins for long, hard kicking sets and occasionally when my bicep tendinitis acts up. I try not to use them too often so I don't get dependent on them. In fact, I don't like the way I feel when I use them for freestyle.

aztimm
January 25th, 2011, 07:05 PM
This is ridiculous. I would say something else, but I don't want to trouble Jim M. to have to scold me.

There are numerous prior threads on fins.

There are numerous benefits to using fins. All elite coaches use them. Typically, it is best to have a specific purpose in mind when using them, not just mindlessly throw them on (unless you have a shoulder problem).

Maybe the term you're looking for is ridonkulous?

I agree with you 100%. With a specific purpose, any toy/swimming aid can be extremely beneficial. And I've worked my legs far more with fins than I ever could without. One of the toughest sets I've done over the past year was 100 FAST w/fins + paddles (when done correctly Paul said it can predict race times).

Celestial
January 25th, 2011, 09:33 PM
I totally agree with Fort, Ann & Tim -- thanks to fins, I was able to baby myself through a rotator cuff tear - took 2 years, but no surgery. Also, thanks to zoomers, I was able to get my fly rhythm back - not so with fins, as they can really distort & make you think you've got something going on when you don't! But the zoomers have helped & my stroke (w/out the zoomers) has vastly improved because of the zoomers. Besides, they are fun! and really break up the workout, especially when you're bored and swimming solo!

gdanner
January 26th, 2011, 01:58 PM
This is ridiculous. I would say something else, but I don't want to trouble Jim M. to have to scold me.


Hahaha. No kiddin. It's like people are trying to distinguish what yards are quality and what aren't? If I do 10 x 100 free on 1:00 with fins, these people are telling me it's not good enough to count toward my yardage total? Putting on fins doesn't mean I am going to be exerting any less energy. Maybe I'll get through a set faster, but maybe not.

Thrashing Slug
January 26th, 2011, 02:22 PM
Fins rule. :D

I like to use them for sprinting.. stuff like repeat 100s on a 2:00+ interval, coming in at sub 1:05. I could never come close to that speed without fins, nor could I approach the wonderful combination of lactic acid and ankle stretching that the fins produce.

I also use them for pace work on longer swims like 500s. With fins I can choose what pace/100 I want to swim the 500s on.. say 1:20, 1:15, 1:10, and allocate sufficient speed and pain while watching the clock every 100. Without fins I have to either accept a horribly slow pace (1:35+) or burn out and die after the first 150.

My level of effort to swim a 1:20 100 free without fins is about the same as what it takes to go sub-minute with fins. Since everyone else in my training group can do 1:20s at cruise effort, I pretty much have to use fins to keep up. The workouts are written at their intervals, not mine.

All this fin training doesn't seem to be hurting, because experience has shown that I swim faster in meets when I train a lot with fins.

nkfrench
January 26th, 2011, 02:40 PM
My first priorities are to improve my conditioning -- while having fun. With the fins on, I tend to get more whole-body conditioning rather than my usual tendency to just use my upper body. That trashes my arms/shoulders before the rest of me gets tired.

And fins are fun!

FireRox21
January 27th, 2011, 01:57 AM
It is interesting that this topic came up as I resigned myself to using fins this week for Monday's distance free workout. I get incredibly bored swimming distance free sets and find that I just can't do it without burning out my arms. With fins, I can get the sets done and still have the energy to get out of the pool. Plus it really helps with pacing. I use the regular long fins, but I am debating whether I should invest in some zoomers. I've never used zoomers, so I'm not too sure what they do in comparison to regular fins.

analazy
January 27th, 2011, 02:33 AM
Fins, paddles, pull buoys , special swimming suits to increase weight, etc, are simple swim toys which can be helpful or not depending on the goal set to use it.. We are adults , know when we become addicted to a special toy…. Specially because we are not allowed to use it on competitions; easier to confirm if it is the aid toy that helps us to go faster…:D
Personally, I compare it to the use of clothes, if you dress to hide your body imperfections you are playing tricks with your mind :bitching: I do not use swim toys and I dress really practical (badly to the female point of view):bump::D

rtodd
January 27th, 2011, 07:11 AM
The majority of swimming should be without fins. Long fins are great for simulating speed to fine tune your hydrodynamic form at speed. Sometimes I use them in kick sets to burn up the legs, or slow swimming for recovery so I don't drown after a tough set. Plus fins are fun. I put paddles and fins on the other day and went under 15 sec for a 100ft, or a sub 44 yard pace. the way it felt, I just can't believe that there are those that go way under that without fins and paddles!!!!!!!!!!!!

EJB190
January 27th, 2011, 09:20 AM
I think they're ok if used sparingly.
1. To improve the finesse of your stroke or stroke and feeling in the water
2. To extend the distance you swim that you would not be able to swim w/o fins (i.e. you swam x,xxx yards and are exhausted but want to keep going)

I agree with someone above, distance swam with fins should not be counted in your total yardage.

thewookiee
January 27th, 2011, 09:32 AM
I agree with someone above, distance swam with fins should not be counted in your total yardage.

And what is your justification for not counting yards swam with fins? Do you count yards swam with a paddles? Snorkel? Buoys?

The Fortress
January 27th, 2011, 10:51 AM
And what is your justification for not counting yards swam with fins? Do you count yards swam with a paddles? Snorkel? Buoys?

I don't see any justification either. It seems so old school purist. Using gear is part of enhancing technique and speed.

If X person uses fins frequently and Y person does not, but X person trounces Y person at meets (assuming comparable abilities), why are fins bad exactly?

I agree with Thrashing Slug and Ann -- fins help me go faster at meets and they have helped me develop a great SDK and leg strength. They aren't absolutely necessary; you can get it done (super fast kicking) without fins (example: Chris and Ande), but it's a lot more likely to happen mindfully using fins for speed and conditioning.

Chris Stevenson
January 27th, 2011, 10:52 AM
I think they're ok if used sparingly.
1. To improve the finesse of your stroke or stroke and feeling in the water
2. To extend the distance you swim that you would not be able to swim w/o fins (i.e. you swam x,xxx yards and are exhausted but want to keep going)

I agree with someone above, distance swam with fins should not be counted in your total yardage.

It does those things, but it also is good as a conditioning tool. I remember reading an interview with David Berkhoff where he talked about training with fins as a way to increase kick-specific strength. And he was not half bad at that kicking thing.

Water doesn't provide much resistance, but there are a number of devices that can increase the stress on muscles and so help develop swim-specific strength. Fins are one of these.

I can also see using fins or zoomers to make sure you engage and integrate your kick more in a given stroke (esp freestyle) instead of just letting them hang there.

kgernert
January 27th, 2011, 12:41 PM
I will be the first to admit that I love my fins. :bouncing: That being said, my kicking without fins has improved dramatically (mostly through fin-aided kick sets) than when I first started swimming about 1 1/2 years ago. I saw another great improvement in my kicking without fins ability (distance and speed) when I switched from long fins to short fins.

One of the best uses of fins for me, however, had nothing to do with my kicking per se. When I started swimming, I had never done a flip turn and just couldn't get the hang of them - at all (really, really ugly turns). While my coach tried - and tried - to explain how a flip turn works, it wasn't until another swimmer suggested putting on my fins to generate speed going into the wall that the entire process began to make sense to me. Now, I can flip turn with the best of them (well, maybe not the best, but my turns aren't a hindrance to my races anymore). :banana: I needed to generate a speed that I wasn't capable - at that point - of generating on my own in order to feel what a flip turns should be like. Call fins toys, call them training aids - either way, they can be a great help.

knelson
January 27th, 2011, 02:07 PM
If fin yardage shouldn't count toward your total then I think any yardage swum slower than a 1:10 pace per 100 shouldn't count either. I mean, at that speed you're obviously just puttering along and not really accomplishing anything. Sheesh.

EJB190
January 27th, 2011, 02:10 PM
It does those things, but it also is good as a conditioning tool. I remember reading an interview with David Berkhoff where he talked about training with fins as a way to increase kick-specific strength. And he was not half bad at that kicking thing.

Water doesn't provide much resistance, but there are a number of devices that can increase the stress on muscles and so help develop swim-specific strength. Fins are one of these.

I can also see using fins or zoomers to make sure you engage and integrate your kick more in a given stroke (esp freestyle) instead of just letting them hang there.

Good Points


And what is your justification for not counting yards swam with fins? Do you count yards swam with a paddles? Snorkel? Buoys?

I consider it cheating haha :)

Kick boards, Pull Buoys count, and Snorkels count haha.

The Fortress
January 27th, 2011, 02:51 PM
I consider it cheating

This forum has the oddest definition of "cheating."

Allen Stark
January 27th, 2011, 03:05 PM
I swim most of my distance free with fins because 1) as primarily a breaststroker I want to put extra strain on my legs,and 2) I have twitchy shoulders and it takes a little strain off them.GTD isn't a competition,at least not for me,it is just a way to tally my yardage.If you think I shouldn't count my yardage with fins for GTD,frankly I pity you.Also,are you saying Fort shouldn't count her MF 25 shooters,those are probably much harder sets than what most people do.

EJB190
January 27th, 2011, 03:26 PM
This forum has the oddest definition of "cheating."

Here is my philosophy:
I view swimming ultimately as a sport between me and myself. I can therefore make my own personal rules and guidelines. Swimming with fins makes me swim faster/with less energy. I count my yardage as swimming naturally or doing something that makes it harder. Drills, kick boarding, pulling, etc make me work harder to go the same distance.

I'm not saying fins are bad, that they don't have benefits and that I didn't swim x amount of yards w/fins, I just don't count them in my distance for the day. I would only be cheating myself.

It's like saying I biked 40 miles today, but it was all downhill.

That's my method. You can do what you want too.

rtodd
January 27th, 2011, 03:52 PM
When I swim 800 yards of butterfly in a workout instead of free, I don't count that as extra, so why not count some yards with fins?


Swimming with fins makes me swim faster/with less energy.

It should really make you swim faster with the same energy or you are just backing off. Try swimming a set of all out 100's with fins. You really should get tired, no?

Namor
January 27th, 2011, 05:01 PM
I think they are helpful for improving the kick. When I first used them I learned to relax my legs more or I would soon suffer cramp.

On the other hand, they do offer enormously greater propulsion. If I could wear them in competitions etc I would and I'ld have a very different stroke. I can't so I limit my use.

The Fortress
January 28th, 2011, 12:44 PM
Here is my philosophy:
I view swimming ultimately as a sport between me and myself. I can therefore make my own personal rules and guidelines. Swimming with fins makes me swim faster/with less energy. I count my yardage as swimming naturally or doing something that makes it harder. Drills, kick boarding, pulling, etc make me work harder to go the same distance.

I'm not saying fins are bad, that they don't have benefits and that I didn't swim x amount of yards w/fins, I just don't count them in my distance for the day. I would only be cheating myself.

It's like saying I biked 40 miles today, but it was all downhill.

That's my method. You can do what you want too.

And I always do! "Cheating" seems like a harsh word. People here even say one is cheating if one wears a legal tech suit.

If you are using less energy with fins, you're not swimming hard or fast enough with them. My AFAP fin sets leave me absolutely exhausted. I think I should get double credit in the GTD for them.

SaltySwimmer
January 28th, 2011, 03:48 PM
My AFAP fin sets leave me absolutely exhausted. I think I should get double credit in the GTD for them.

Leslie, I too love my fins, and use them as a tool for training (rather than a crutch). Could you provide a typical AFAP fin set that you do? I would love to try one out. Thanks in advance!

The Fortress
January 28th, 2011, 06:55 PM
Leslie, I too love my fins, and use them as a tool for training (rather than a crutch). Could you provide a typical AFAP fin set that you do? I would love to try one out. Thanks in advance!

Wow, I do so many different ones. You can check my blog to get an idea. But ones I do frequently are:

lactate sets:

8 x 100 @ 2:00, hold best average
10 x 50 @ 1:00, hold best average

-- I frequently kick these w/fins or monofin.

speed sets:

6-8 x 50 AFAP @ 3-4:00
4-5 x 100 broken AFAP 100s (broken for 15 seconds at 50, 15 seconds at 75, last 25 kick) @ 7-8:00
3-5 x 100 @ 8-9:00
8-10 x 25 AFAP
shooters -- 25s, 50s, 75s
10 x 30 seconds strong vertical dolphin kicking with fins + right into fast 25 UW shooter + 25 EZ
9 x 100 @ 2:00, every 3rd one fast

-- I'll kick or swim these sets or do some of both. I do recovery swimming between the fast efforts. Sometimes I don't even bother with an interval. The key thing is that you are going at absolutely max effort on these sets with ample rest between each effort.

geochuck
January 28th, 2011, 07:50 PM
Fins a great tool for developing flexibility. There is a time to stop using them. I have used fins occasionaly by putting the left one on the right foot and the right one on the left foot to looein up the ankles.

Paul Smith
January 28th, 2011, 08:14 PM
And I always do! "Cheating" seems like a harsh word. People here even say one is cheating if one wears a legal tech suit.

If you are using less energy with fins, you're not swimming hard or fast enough with them. My AFAP fin sets leave me absolutely exhausted. I think I should get double credit in the GTD for them.

On the opposite end of the spectrum is the use of fins instead of a pull buoy with paddles and a snorkel for lower speed/technique focused pull sets...fantastic use of all the gear!

Paul Smith
January 28th, 2011, 08:18 PM
This forum has the oddest definition of "cheating."

"Cheating" with regard to the use of equipment in swimming = "The opinion of those resistant to change and critical of others using said devices and who often times are not seeing the progression in their own development...unlike the accused"

analazy
January 29th, 2011, 03:22 AM
"Cheating" with regard to the use of equipment in swimming = "The opinion of those resistant to change and critical of others using said devices and who often times are not seeing the progression in their own development...unlike the accused"

uuaaauu! Had to read twice to understand , like it:)
“cheating” is, like most abstract concepts, whatever we want it to be… at this particularly thread there is no cheating in the use of fins or any other swim toy.. any toy that makes a adult to move is wonderful..:applaud:
the goal to use it is always the decision ´s swimmer….

stillwater
January 29th, 2011, 10:32 AM
I think fins can be a really good tool. On kicking sets they really tire me out, are fun, and reduce the amount of time it takes to finish the set.

When swimming they can help with body position, and dealing with race speed for turns.

What bothers me is when people use fins to make a set, or move up a lane that they otherwise couldn't keep up in. It is a real drag to swim behind someone wearing fins. If you are the only person in your lane wearing fins during a swimming set, please take them off.

EJB190
January 29th, 2011, 12:29 PM
All I said cheating in terms of counting the distance.

Next time I'll keep my mouth shut regarding my purism hahaha :bolt:

philoswimmer
January 30th, 2011, 12:43 PM
What bothers me is when people use fins to make a set, or move up a lane that they otherwise couldn't keep up in. It is a real drag to swim behind someone wearing fins. If you are the only person in your lane wearing fins during a swimming set, please take them off.

I'm not fully understanding this. For example, there was one day the coach put me into a faster lane because of space issues. Now, I could have held up the lane, but I figured it would be better to put my fins on and keep up. I don't see where I got in anyone's way -- in fact, it was the exact opposite.

To the topic at hand, though, perhaps it's people wearing fins when others are not that contributes to the feeling that fins are "cheating." I felt a little bit like that myself, but not because I wasn't getting a good workout. The only reason you wouldn't get a workout with fins is if you lowered your effort level (in other words, if you swam at the same speed you would ordinarily without the fins).

In another thread, I asked about intermediate length fins (longer than zoomers, shorter than regular long fins). I don't know if it's my imagination, but they feel very fast to me, perhaps because I can do a relatively fast tempo with a fair amount of power. So, I have to make sure that I am putting out effort and not just lolly-gagging along.

orca1946
January 30th, 2011, 02:15 PM
Fins to keep up in a faster lane seems fine by me !

Thrashing Slug
January 30th, 2011, 03:59 PM
Using fins in a race would certainly be cheating, but making comments about "cheating" in a workout seems pretty childish to me. It's Masters and we're all adults. We can make our own choices about how we want to train.

You have no idea what the person in the lane next to you might be doing in their life other than swimming. They could be low on sleep due to work, tired from running, dealing with shoulder issues, or just plain bored of swimming endless yards like an age grouper. Or maybe they just want to swim faster to get faster. All are valid reasons for using <toy of choice> and there are plenty of others.

I think that if you feel the need to complain about someone else's training routine, you're only exposing your own issues.

stillwater
January 30th, 2011, 04:40 PM
If you are the only person in your lane wearing fins during a swimming set, please take them off.

Perhaps I should have added, or go last. Swimming behind someone who is wearing fins sucks.

debaru
January 30th, 2011, 05:22 PM
I think fins can be a really good tool. On kicking sets they really tire me out, are fun, and reduce the amount of time it takes to finish the set.

When swimming they can help with body position, and dealing with race speed for turns.

What bothers me is when people use fins to make a set, or move up a lane that they otherwise couldn't keep up in. It is a real drag to swim behind someone wearing fins. If you are the only person in your lane wearing fins during a swimming set, please take them off.

What exactly is the problem swimming behind someone with fins? On any given day in my usual lane we all occasionally use fins and no one has complained.

philoswimmer
January 30th, 2011, 05:27 PM
Perhaps I should have added, or go last. Swimming behind someone who is wearing fins sucks.

Why? Are you getting fins in your face? If so, you need to back off.

Guvnah
January 30th, 2011, 07:21 PM
I had to look at the thread subject line twice.

I though it sad, "Swim Fins Helpful ON a Crutch."

Man, crutches are hard enough as it is, without trying to use them with swim fins. And fins on the crutch itself? That would be fun to watch, but probably not fun to try...

Seriously, though ...

There are people who regularly swim at the same lap time I do. They'll wear fins and paddles for the whole workout, day in and day out. Some swim a mile or 2000 yards straight. Every day.

I'm sure they get a fine workout, but I wonder how effective they would be if their boat capsized a mile off shore.

But maybe that's what it takes to get them in the pool, and I'll never begrudge anyone whatever assistance they need to keep at it -- whatever their workout is.

And then last year I got injured. Ruptured my left quatriceps tendon. Had to get it surgically reattached. Took forever to rehab the thing. Still working at it. When I was first allowed in the pool, two months after surgery, I swam everything with a pull buoy. The knee hurt too much to kick. (And I don't even kick hard. It's just enough to keep my ass up.) Then I started slipping in 50 yards without the pull buoy every 300 yards. Then 100s. Eventually 50% of the workout without the pull buoy. And finally full workouts without the pull buoy.

But that's not where the victory ended. I started doing a little with fins. Then more and more. Now, once or twice a week I do the majority of my workout all kicking. On those days I do 2500 with the fins. Half of each length is SDK, half flutter. I do these for a couple of half mile intervals at about 50-55 seconds per 50 yards. And then some more at a more relaxed pace to finish off the remainder. I've been doing these for the past few months now, and over that time I have greatly increased the strength in both legs, and especially the injured one. And I've grown the circumference of my upper thighs from 56 CMs (measured at the end of my rehab stint) to 64 CMs in about 5 months.

I still have a crappy kick without the fins. Maybe some day I'll care enough about that to work without the fins. But this is what keeps me improving now, and nobody's opinion is going to make me feel any less satisfied with the progress I'm seeing. And I consider that my yards all "count" (as if anyone else is counting anyway!)

Thrashing Slug
January 30th, 2011, 09:25 PM
What exactly is the problem swimming behind someone with fins? On any given day in my usual lane we all occasionally use fins and no one has complained.

Fins create one hell of a wash when the person is kicking hard. I can certainly understand and agree with the opinion that one should try to stay out of others' way when using fins. I only go first if I know I'll finish with more than 5 seconds lead time. If not then I go last. Sometimes I wait 10 or 15 seconds instead of 5, to ensure plenty of room.

EJB190
January 31st, 2011, 12:02 AM
Using fins in a race would certainly be cheating, but making comments about "cheating" in a workout seems pretty childish to me. It's Masters and we're all adults. We can make our own choices about how we want to train.

You have no idea what the person in the lane next to you might be doing in their life other than swimming. They could be low on sleep due to work, tired from running, dealing with shoulder issues, or just plain bored of swimming endless yards like an age grouper. Or maybe they just want to swim faster to get faster. All are valid reasons for using <toy of choice> and there are plenty of others.

I think that if you feel the need to complain about someone else's training routine, you're only exposing your own issues.

Pardon my assertiveness but I think you've completely misrepresented everything I have said. I haven't complained nor have I judged other people. I never said that fins should never be used. I believe I actually said that swimming is a sport between you and yourself and you set your own standards. I never suggested you're "cheating" other people and quite honestly the term was being used a litle facetiously.

Watering down (no pun intended :)) my beliefs and dramatizing them to some form of judgmental, ignorant bickering is ludicrous. All I said was I don't count swimming with fins as part of my distance of the day because it inflates the distance I actually feel I swam.

And I'm not attempting to be confrontational or "complain" here but rather clarify what has been said. Perhaps you could now enlighten me on what "issues" I'm "exposing".

That Guy
January 31st, 2011, 12:41 AM
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

AnnG
January 31st, 2011, 07:22 AM
I don't really care if other people use their fins for part or all of a workout - don't pay that much attention. I will use my fins when appropriate and if I cover the distance - it counts.

SaltySwimmer
January 31st, 2011, 02:35 PM
Wow, I do so many different ones. You can check my blog to get an idea. But ones I do frequently are:

lactate sets:

8 x 100 @ 2:00, hold best average
10 x 50 @ 1:00, hold best average

-- I frequently kick these w/fins or monofin.

speed sets:

6-8 x 50 AFAP @ 3-4:00
4-5 x 100 broken AFAP 100s (broken for 15 seconds at 50, 15 seconds at 75, last 25 kick) @ 7-8:00
3-5 x 100 @ 8-9:00
8-10 x 25 AFAP
shooters -- 25s, 50s, 75s
10 x 30 seconds strong vertical dolphin kicking with fins + right into fast 25 UW shooter + 25 EZ
9 x 100 @ 2:00, every 3rd one fast

-- I'll kick or swim these sets or do some of both. I do recovery swimming between the fast efforts. Sometimes I don't even bother with an interval. The key thing is that you are going at absolutely max effort on these sets with ample rest between each effort.

Thanks so much! I assume these are all out efforts. I'll bet it is a pretty tough workout. Can I ask (I hope I don't end up feeling stupid for asking this), but what does "AFAP" stand for? And what are "shooters?" (Underwater SDK kicking?) Thanks again!

The Fortress
January 31st, 2011, 02:49 PM
Thanks so much! I assume these are all out efforts. I'll bet it is a pretty tough workout. Can I ask (I hope I don't end up feeling stupid for asking this), but what does "AFAP" stand for? And what are "shooters?" (Underwater SDK kicking?) Thanks again!

No problem!

AFAP = as fast as possible

Shooters are 25s or 50s done completely underwater SDK.

debaru
January 31st, 2011, 02:52 PM
Fins create one hell of a wash when the person is kicking hard. I can certainly understand and agree with the opinion that one should try to stay out of others' way when using fins. I only go first if I know I'll finish with more than 5 seconds lead time. If not then I go last. Sometimes I wait 10 or 15 seconds instead of 5, to ensure plenty of room.

I swim with people who kick hard enough without fins to create a hell of a wash. :agree: One guy in particular moves a lot of water when he swims by in another lane, let alone the one I'm in, but I just tell myself it's all good experience for open water swims. :D I also find that the 10 second rule tends to work well whether or not folks are using fins.

SaltySwimmer
January 31st, 2011, 03:31 PM
No problem!

AFAP = as fast as possible

Shooters are 25s or 50s done completely underwater SDK.

Had a feeling this was a dumb question, but just had to ask!!! Thanks!!! :blush:

Rich Abrahams
January 31st, 2011, 05:21 PM
Thanks so much! I assume these are all out efforts. I'll bet it is a pretty tough workout. Can I ask (I hope I don't end up feeling stupid for asking this), but what does "AFAP" stand for? And what are "shooters?" (Underwater SDK kicking?) Thanks again!

Yes, Leslie does all of the above in one workout. It is indeed very tough.

rtodd
January 31st, 2011, 09:22 PM
sharing a lane with someone who had long fins is no big deal. I'd be a little nervous with a monifin though, especially a stiff one.

Thrashing Slug
January 31st, 2011, 10:37 PM
Pardon my assertiveness but I think you've completely misrepresented everything I have said. I haven't complained nor have I judged other people. I never said that fins should never be used. I believe I actually said that swimming is a sport between you and yourself and you set your own standards. I never suggested you're "cheating" other people and quite honestly the term was being used a litle facetiously.

Watering down (no pun intended :)) my beliefs and dramatizing them to some form of judgmental, ignorant bickering is ludicrous. All I said was I don't count swimming with fins as part of my distance of the day because it inflates the distance I actually feel I swam.

And I'm not attempting to be confrontational or "complain" here but rather clarify what has been said. Perhaps you could now enlighten me on what "issues" I'm "exposing".

I wasn't addressing you personally, but if you're the one who made the cheating analogy then I think my original comment sums up my opinion on that.

It doesn't bother me if you have a personal code that prevents you from counting fin yardage. That's great if it helps you achieve your swimming goals.

Obviously I have a different approach. Fins are a key component of my training and I view them as a tool, not a crutch. Fin yardage hurts. It makes my ankles more flexible, builds endurance, and makes me faster.

KIKat
February 2nd, 2011, 10:38 AM
I just ordered some Speedo Biofuse Training Fins for practice and to make workouts a bit more interesting. I hope I did the right thing!

Mary1912
February 8th, 2011, 07:47 PM
Fins have saved me. I am back in the water after being out for 18 months and I got myself a pair and I'm so glad I did. I remember Fort's comments on how fins have been helpful and that gave me the confidence to use them.

My right shoulder is buggy and has given me trouble since I first got back in the pool after a 20+ year hiatus. If it were not for the fins, I'd not be in the pool nearly as often. I love them for sets of 50s and 100s. And believe me I pant hard!

They help me feel like I did when I was competing. I use them a lot in practice and right now I am not competing so I will use them as much as I feel like I am getting benefit. I notice my legs really feel it too, which is not something I feel when I don't use them.

I heart fins! :bliss:

geochuck
February 8th, 2011, 08:15 PM
Glad to hear the fins helped. Just don't use them if you are in a meet. They will be considered illegal.:bouncing::bouncing::bouncing:



They help me feel like I did when I was competing. I use them a lot in practice and right now I am not competing so I will use them as much as I feel like I am getting benefit. I notice my legs really feel it too, which is not something I feel when I don't use them.

I heart fins! :bliss:

pmccoy
February 8th, 2011, 09:00 PM
One of the people I swim with on weekends says "fins are the new pull" whenever we start a pull set. I like my fins and they have kept me swimming through shouder pain but I use them sparingly.

I think they can definitely be a crutch. They held me back a good bit when I first started. I kept telling myself I'd quit using them once my kick got stronger and I'd be able to keep up. My kick never really got stronger until I put them and my ego aside and missed a few time splits on workouts.

Certainly, there are many people that are helped due to injury with fins. I've been there. And not everyone has the goal of developing a stronger finless kick. I look at it this way: If swimming isn't fun without fins, wear the fins.

Conniekat8
February 8th, 2011, 09:01 PM
It's not the equipement in itself, but how it's used.

If a person is using the equipement in order to put less effort into something, they are only cheating themselves.... using it in a destructive manner.

On the other hand, equipement can also work well in constructive ways, in making things possible, or harder, or correct things, or isolate certain movements.

I think equipement in workouts is just fine, as long as one is honest with themselves why they are using it... and if they're not honest with themselves... there's a saying 'ignorance is bliss'...

Muppet
February 15th, 2011, 11:34 PM
Sorry I'm late to the game, but I like this topic!

Fins are helpful AND a crutch, and as many have previously posted, it depends on how you are using them.

Some great applications for using fins include: help develop kick muscles, achieve better body position, get a feel for race pace speed in practice and enhance SDK ability. I have a few frog-oriented little kids who have spent full practices working on flutter kick with fins to orient their legs with the up and down motion of a straight-leg flutter kick, rather than the "one frog leg at a time in sort of a flutter motion" approach.

If you are using fins to keep up in a lane, I wonder, are you really getting the most out of your workout? If it takes 10% less effort to keep up with the faster people, are you really getting a better workout than if you moved down a lane? Sure you may swim a few more yards, but there is a difference between quality and quantity.

For those who swim while others use fins (or won't do stroke during IM sets), I feel your pain. We used to swim with a swimmer who wore fins for the whole workout, and it can get annoying (especially when the swimmer can't keep up even with fins and doesn't move down).

It is easier said than done to tell yourself (and your lanemates) to swim your own swim, ignore them and use them as motivation. However, if you pushing yourself to work harder helps make the rest of your lane faster, is this all bad?

nkfrench
February 16th, 2011, 11:51 AM
If you are using fins to keep up in a lane, I wonder, are you really getting the most out of your workout? If it takes 10% less effort to keep up with the faster people, are you really getting a better workout than if you moved down a lane?
I'd really prefer not to swim in the slowest lane. Usually it has very new swimmers who may be much faster than me but have no endurance nor sense of pacing, will stop each 25yards blocking the wall, decide to switch to breaststroke during a free set, won't follow the interval send-offs and otherwise don't understand lane etiquette. They end up drifting back in line, starting out leading the lane but by repeat #5 they are the last swimmer if they bother to tell anybody they are taking extra rest.

swimcat
February 22nd, 2011, 07:42 PM
I use them for IM sets. It takes the pressure off my "glass shoulder".

I think with me it is an age thing. 10 yrs. ago, I never would have put on a pair unless it was dictated.
I also have some monofins but haven't used them in quite a while.