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View Full Version : ..and if Crocker wins 100m butterfly?



rooinoz
August 12th, 2008, 09:09 AM
I feel sorry for Crocker. If he wins the 100 metres butterfly, he will have effectively ruined a uniques olympic momentous quest that Phelps has embarked on.
No matter how good it is to win gold, poor Crocker would not be given the accolades he deserves if he spoilt Michael Phelps party. It wouldnt matter so much if Crocker wasnt in team USA but from another country. On the other hand he has to give his all. So effectively, he is damned if he does and damned if he doesnt

pwolf66
August 12th, 2008, 09:20 AM
I was wondering on this myself as I was driving to work. Back - Piersol, Breast - Hansen, Fly - Phelps/Crocker (coin flip), Free - Weber-Gale/Lezak (money's on Lezak). If Crocker does win the 100 Fly, then where is Phelps? Out of the Medley it appears. Do you swim Phelps in the pre-lim just in case? I dunno, that would seem to cheapen it somehow.

rooinoz
August 12th, 2008, 09:30 AM
I was wondering on this myself as I was driving to work. Back - Piersol, Breast - Hansen, Fly - Phelps/Crocker (coin flip), Free - Weber-Gale/Lezak (money's on Lezak). If Crocker does win the 100 Fly, then where is Phelps? Out of the Medley it appears. Do you swim Phelps in the pre-lim just in case? I dunno, that would seem to cheapen it somehow.

I forgot about the medley relay. Interesting. So there is only one man on this planet to halt Phelps and that is Crocker. What an appalling position to find yourself in.

SwimStud
August 12th, 2008, 09:31 AM
I was wondering on this myself as I was driving to work. Back - Piersol, Breast - Hansen, Fly - Phelps/Crocker (coin flip), Free - Weber-Gale/Lezak (money's on Lezak). If Crocker does win the 100 Fly, then where is Phelps? Out of the Medley it appears. Do you swim Phelps in the pre-lim just in case? I dunno, that would seem to cheapen it somehow.

The best should race period. Phelps should not be given any favours whatsoever.
If it was you or your kid sacrificed for the benefit of someone else just trying to make a record. I doubt Phelps would want it that way anyhow. I'm geting mildly irritated with the Phelympics already.

pwolf66
August 12th, 2008, 09:32 AM
The best should race period. Phelps should not be given any favours whatsoever.
If it was you or your kid sacrificed for the benefit of someone else just trying to make a record. I doubt Phelps would want it that way anyhow.

True but what about Athens? Seem to recall Phelps giving up a slot that he had earned. Granted he still got a medal because he swam on the relay in the pre-lims.

ande
August 12th, 2008, 09:37 AM
Crocker is going to do the best he can
Phelps is going to do the best he can
who ever wins
wins

I'm leaning towards phelps
since he went 47.5 in the 100 free and
crocker was 49.4 in the 100 free at trials
each swimmer has a ratio when you compare their
100 fly speed to their 100 free speed

can't wait to see how this race turns out

I wrote some this in a related thread
http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=146599&postcount=15

ande

SwimStud
August 12th, 2008, 09:40 AM
True but what about Athens? Seem to recall Phelps giving up a slot that he had earned. Granted he still got a medal because he swam on the relay in the pre-lims.

If he's made the statement of I want to win 8 at these games, then he's made a cross for his back. He needs to show up and take them all not get one on a shuffling of the pack sort of thing. Athens was different in that respect. Phelps is going to win it anyway--everyone else is racing for first loser.

ensignada
August 12th, 2008, 10:13 AM
I don't believe that Crocker has anything to ponder. He'll swim to win as will Phelps.

hofffam
August 12th, 2008, 10:27 AM
I have to believe Crocker will swim his guts out. Phelps wants to earn his medals. No gifts.

I think Phelps will want that 100 fly badly and he wants the WR. He also wants to swim finals - the last relay and pool race of the Olympics.

Phelps has shown very good early speed in his 200 free and of course the free relay. That bodes badly for Crocker.

Perhaps Crocker will get an infusion of whatever drives Peirsol. He has some incredible clutch speed - completely missing from his UT teammate Hansen.

tjrpatt
August 12th, 2008, 11:09 AM
He is not going to win the 100 fly. Phelps is so powerful at these games.

TheGoodSmith
August 12th, 2008, 11:30 AM
If Ian is "on" Phelps will lose.

There is a reason Phelps does not have this last WR.


John Smith

knelson
August 12th, 2008, 11:37 AM
I think every swimmer in the world, whether they're on the U.S. team or not, would love to beat Phelps. I'm sure Crocker is going into the 100 fly with that attitude that he owns that event.

thewookiee
August 12th, 2008, 11:37 AM
Phelps is going to win it anyway--everyone else is racing for first loser.


One word....FRENCHIES

SwimStud
August 12th, 2008, 12:29 PM
One word....FRENCHIES

That was 4 races not 1. I don't see Phelps letting anything by him. If Crocker wins it will be a gargantuan effort.

I'd hate to see any "gimmes" on the back of that though just so 1 person can re-write the records.

thewookiee
August 12th, 2008, 12:34 PM
I was referring to your boost that Phelps would win it anyway...that reminded me of them saying they would smash the americans.

Crocker can beat Phelps. So, nothing is set in stone yet.

SwimStud
August 12th, 2008, 12:41 PM
I was referring to your boost that Phelps would win it anyway...that reminded me of them saying they would smash the americans.

Crocker can beat Phelps. So, nothing is set in stone yet.

I don't mean it in a dissing way...I just don't see him slipping now. They gotta race too and I am actually pulling more for Crocker, he plays the bass!

cantwait4bike
August 12th, 2008, 12:50 PM
the way hansen is swimming, put phelps on the breast leg as a last resort. they would still win wouldn't they?:woot:

Warren
August 12th, 2008, 01:16 PM
Crocker ruined the 8 golds in internation compition for phelps in melbourne by false starting in the relay. Phelps always swims well but if crocker swims an aaron peirsol 52.44 type performance then there is no way that phelps is going to win. Piersol and crocker do train together. Hansen isnt on though, we will just have to wait and see.

lefty
August 12th, 2008, 01:19 PM
the way hansen is swimming, put phelps on the breast leg as a last resort. they would still win wouldn't they?:woot:

I know this is in jest, but just to be clear, Phelps isn't THAT good.

Why did Phelps go a 1:53 in prelims in the 200 fly? That might cost him...

JoeBob
August 12th, 2008, 01:44 PM
Why did Phelps go a 1:53 in prelims in the 200 fly? That might cost him...
Yeah, he could have gone a little easier but from looking at his 1:42 200 free that 1:53 didn't hurt.

I am really bummed that Stoval missed finals by 0.01.

tjrpatt
August 12th, 2008, 02:01 PM
Yeah, he could have gone a little easier but from looking at his 1:42 200 free that 1:53 didn't hurt.

I am really bummed that Stoval missed finals by 0.01.

I know. I was so routing for Stoval to get on the medal stands.

hofffam
August 12th, 2008, 02:11 PM
According to this NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/sports/olympics/06omaha.html) Phelps has beaten Crocker 12 of the last 16 times they raced since 2002.

USMSarah
August 12th, 2008, 02:21 PM
According to this NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/sports/olympics/06omaha.html) Phelps has beaten Crocker 12 of the last 16 times they raced since 2002.

I'm going to put my neck out there and say that Crocker is DUE for a win.

pwolf66
August 12th, 2008, 02:26 PM
I know this is in jest, but just to be clear, Phelps isn't THAT good.

Why did Phelps go a 1:53 in prelims in the 200 fly? That might cost him...


I doubt it. He recovers like no one alive right now. I seriously doubt (and yet can't prove until the finals) it will hurt him. This was always one of his most challenging days and he got thru it OK.

hofffam
August 12th, 2008, 02:41 PM
I know this is in jest, but just to be clear, Phelps isn't THAT good.

Why did Phelps go a 1:53 in prelims in the 200 fly? That might cost him...

Phelps had zero prelim races today. So before finals (our time) tonight - he had the most rest since the Olympics started. The 4x200 is 59 minutes after the start of 200 fly. I think Phelps can handle it - just like he handled 200 fly after the 200 free final. Which was the exact opposite order of swims tonight.

pwolf66
August 12th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Phelps had zero prelim races today. So before finals (our time) tonight - he had the most rest since the Olympics started. The 4x200 is 59 minutes after the start of 200 fly. I think Phelps can handle it - just like he handled 200 fly after the 200 free final. Which was the exact opposite order of swims tonight.

If you had the choice, where would you swim Phelps? Personally, I would swim him anchor just to give him the opportunity to gauge the level of effort needed and to give him the additional 5 minutes of recovery time.

Warren
August 12th, 2008, 02:46 PM
I think one good thing going for crocker right now is that he has less pressure on him than before because everyone is expecting phelps to win. We all know Crocker has it in him. I don't care what he went at trials. Look at Athens, he split a 50 in the free relay, lost the 100 fly, then came back and split a 50.2 in meadly relay. Crocker just needs to focus and hes got it.

thewookiee
August 12th, 2008, 04:42 PM
I say lead Phelps off. That is where he is accustomed to swimming, plus it gives the relay a lead from the start. And he is known to have a better flat start than relay start.

phdude
August 12th, 2008, 04:59 PM
I say lead Phelps off. That is where he is accustomed to swimming, plus it gives the relay a lead from the start. And he is known to have a better flat start than relay start.

and then what is aaron gonna do?

Warren
August 12th, 2008, 05:16 PM
and then what is aaron gonna do?

hes talking about the 4 x 200 free relay not the meadly

rtodd
August 12th, 2008, 06:11 PM
when was the last time crocker lowered the WR? Crocker will probably lower it in Beijing, but Phelps will be ahead.

FlyQueen
August 12th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Crocker ruined the 8 golds in internation compition for phelps in melbourne by false starting in the relay. Phelps always swims well but if crocker swims an aaron peirsol 52.44 type performance then there is no way that phelps is going to win. Piersol and crocker do train together. Hansen isnt on though, we will just have to wait and see.

I am so F'in annoyed that people keep giving Crocker all the fault on that relay. As far as I know there was someone in the water. 99% of the time the dq is the fault of the swimmer in the water - though the one on the blocks gets the blame. I haven't seen the relay so I don't know but if Usher took a half stroke into the wall the fault rests with him.

KeithM
August 12th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Bousquet's race will be interesting.

He seems to be on better form than when he's been going 51 mid.

If Ian doesn't summon his absolute guts in this race both Biscuit and Cavic could be ahead of him. I think Ferns will also be well into the 51s.

FlyQueen
August 12th, 2008, 07:22 PM
I cannot wait for this race. Crocker is totally due. They are going to have to base the prelim swim in the medley relay off of the semis of the 100 fly so I'll bet both go pretty hard in that race. My guess is they put Croc on the prelim relay unless he obliterates the WR and Phelps doesn't. Phelps has just been ridiculously on this games. You always go with who is hot - Peirsol, Phelps, and Lezak are on fire!

Flurpo
August 12th, 2008, 07:48 PM
Phelps is hot but I think Crocker could take the prelims...Phelps wants that fly, u can tell. I think he will beat Crocker and do it in WR time....

Piersol and Phelps are definitely on their game. Hanson is not and I really don't know what Lezak has in him until we see him on a flat start...I think the medley has more danger for Phelps. :frustrated:

jeffkuykendall
August 12th, 2008, 08:36 PM
If Crocker wins the 100 fly and/or breaks the world record, even if he comes in second to Phelps he could still swim fly on the relay, and have Phelps swim free. Didn't Phelps just set the American record in the 100 free the other night? If Lezak doesn't beat a 47.5, and I was Mark Shubert, I might just do that anyway. Although, that would suck for Lezak after his incredible swim in the free relay Sunday night.

hofffam
August 12th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Two posts have said something like "Crocker is due...." as if this is a game of chance. This has nothing to with odds or the passage of time. Based on recent swims including the trials Phelps is simply faster now. I think it is all up to Crocker. I think he CAN beat Phelps......I just don't think he will.