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EllenT
August 12th, 2008, 03:37 PM
OK--I must not be understanding something. Last night on TV and then in an AP article I read (see below) it was mentioned that Grevers was adding the silver from the 100 back to the gold he got for the men's 4 X 100 free relay? He didn't swim in the final relay that won the gold. How does that work?

Thanks for the insight--it's driving me crazy!!!





BEIJING (AP) (I cut most of this article out...)

Peirsol defended his Olympic title in the 100 backstroke with a world record of 52.54, and teammate Matt Grevers made it a 1-2 U.S. finish. Peirsol beat his own mark, 52.89, set at last month's national trials in Omaha, Neb., while Grevers added to the gold he won for swimming the preliminaries of the 400 free relay.

knelson
August 12th, 2008, 03:39 PM
The part you put in bold answers your question: prelim swimmers are considered part of the relay team and, thus, get the same medals the swimmers who swam the relay in finals get.

Warren
August 12th, 2008, 03:42 PM
Adrian and Wildman-Torbriener get a gold too

EllenT
August 12th, 2008, 03:50 PM
Really? I never knew that? Why is it that way?

Warren
August 12th, 2008, 03:57 PM
Really? I never knew that? Why is it that way?

I mean, they were on the team. That would be funny if they got a rainbow colored participation ribon like in summer league.

hofffam
August 12th, 2008, 04:23 PM
Really? I never knew that? Why is it that way?

Without their prelim swims the team, at least in theory, would not have made it to finals to compete for the gold.

Skaterbaj
August 12th, 2008, 04:42 PM
I mean, they were on the team. That would be funny if they got a rainbow colored participation ribon like in summer league.

Lol i remember those days!

ande
August 12th, 2008, 05:02 PM
who ever swims on the relay in the prelims or finals for a country
gets the medal won in the finals by their team

Shaun Jordan made the 88 & 92 olympicteams
both times he swam in the prelims but received the medal that was won in the finals

that's how ithe Olympics work

coaches are going to go with the fastest swimmers at the meet
they compare their meet times, work out times and present health / injury status to select swimmers

in the 4 x 100 free relay prelims
the US swimmers competed
who ever had the fastest split got to swim again at night
of grevers, wildman, jones, & Adrian
jones had it and got it

in todays 4 x 200 keller, berens, vendt and walters competed
berens was slightly faster than keller

If I was a coach I would subtract reaction time from the splits

in the upcoming 4 x 100 medley relay
we're going to see those with the 2nd fastest 100 times at the Olympics swim prelims and the fastest swim in finals

in question are:

1) 100 fr GWG & Lezak if GWG goes faster than Lezak in the 100 fr
they might put GWG in finals but GWG went 47.0 and Lezak went 46.0
so they are probably going to go with Lezak

2) 100 fly phelps or crocker, fastest 100 gets it, probably phelps


prelim swimmers need to have safe exchanges (NO DQ's) and make finals

when US swimmers break a WR they receive a bonus
but only those on the relay that breaks the record gets the bonus

knelson
August 12th, 2008, 05:12 PM
If I was a coach I would subtract reaction time from the splits

I wouldn't. If you did you'd effectively penalize someone for having a good relay start. Reaction times can make or break a relay. You're right, though, that you need safe starts in prelims.

aquageek
August 12th, 2008, 05:19 PM
Berens should get the nod because he is from Swim City, USA, just like C. Jones. Berens' only mistake in life thus far has been going to Texas, where grown men are encouraged to get bovine tats in their late 50s.

Warren
August 12th, 2008, 05:27 PM
id but keller in, more experience

knelson
August 12th, 2008, 05:43 PM
I don't see how you put Keller in over Berens. It wasn't by much, but Berens outsplit Keller. Time should be the final arbiter in this case. Experience is overrated.

ehoch
August 12th, 2008, 06:02 PM
Tough decision for the coaches -- I think they would put in Keller if it was a close race. Experience does matter - but they will win no matter who swims. They may just put in Berens based on the faster time - but also thinking (and not saying) that he is the future and he may need this experience when the race is close next time around.

The prelim medal is a little strange - especially since the swimmers don't get on the award stand. I know they don't "count" it as a medal win in other countries.

scyfreestyler
August 12th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Experience is important, but it's hard to argue with a faster time. It's not a job interview, it's a race.

KeithM
August 12th, 2008, 07:08 PM
I don't see how you put Keller in over Berens. It wasn't by much, but Berens outsplit Keller. Time should be the final arbiter in this case. Experience is overrated.
They'll put Klete in the finals I think. Berens needed to beat him by a solid margin to swim finals. The fact that he has been part of the finals relay at the past Olympics at WC's will weigh in his favor.

There were two swimmers that had faster morning prelim times in Melbourne last year (Walters and Cramer). But Klete got the spot even though his 400 free was also far below expectations. It ended up paying off as Klete put in a great leg. I can't see the coaches doing anything differently.

lefty
August 12th, 2008, 08:54 PM
I am certain that in 2004 the team was told thaht reaction times would be factored out. THey did not want people to push their starts in prelims. This is why Komisarcz, whose split (I believe) was faster than Piper did not get to swim the relay in the finals. Edit add: and Komisarcz was the far more experienced swimmer so that is completely irrelevent.

PS: the 4x100 set the WR in prelims. WIll that record be ratified? WIll swimmers recieve a bonus? WIll Grevers get two bonuses?

hofffam
August 12th, 2008, 09:19 PM
I am certain that in 2004 the team was told thaht reaction times would be factored out. THey did not want people to push their starts in prelims. This is why Komisarcz, whose split (I believe) was faster than Piper did not get to swim the relay in the finals. Edit add: and Komisarcz was the far more experienced swimmer so that is completely irrelevent.

PS: the 4x100 set the WR in prelims. WIll that record be ratified? WIll swimmers recieve a bonus? WIll Grevers get two bonuses?

This (subtracting RT) was documented in Natalie Coughlin's biography Golden Girl although the girls were not named. The coaches specifically told the girls they would do this so there was no incentive to cut their starts too close. They wanted safe starts in prelims. I think this is a smart strategy. These athletes are good enough that they can do fast and safe starts any time they need to.

KeithM
August 12th, 2008, 09:47 PM
They've just posted the start list. They're going with Ricky.

hofffam
August 12th, 2008, 10:01 PM
They've just posted the start list. They're going with Ricky.

Where did you see the start list?

JoeBob
August 12th, 2008, 10:03 PM
http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/SW/C51B/SWM412101.shtml#SWM412101

USA! USA!! USA!!!