PDA

View Full Version : Will we ever see a female Phelpsian performance?



justforfun
August 20th, 2008, 03:53 PM
Given that we've had 2 consecutive ridiculous gold medal hauls by Mr. Phelps and 1 in the past by Mr. Spitz, when will we see a similar feat by a female swimmer? Why haven't we in the past? Is there somehow more parity in women's swimming?

I would submit that we might have seen 6 or more golds in one Olympics from Tracy Caulkins in 1980 if not for the boycott. And, we might have seen it from Shirley Babashoff in 1976 if not for the East German women.

The only current contender I could see is Libby Trickett. She won 5 golds at the 2007 Worlds. She had a great Olympics by most standards, but didn't approach her Worlds gold medal haul. There are other multi-talented women out there (Coughlin, Hoff, Coventry, Rice), but none have attacked that kind of schedule successfully so far.

tjburk
August 20th, 2008, 03:57 PM
Me personally...I think Hoff is one of the best all around female swimmers... just don't think she was quite ready for the type of schedule she swam..... 2012 should be interesting to watch

chaos
August 20th, 2008, 04:08 PM
don't forget to give credit to the other swimmers that made phelps' gold rush possible. he owes those guys big time.

shane gould didn't have that kind of support, but did hold every freestyle record from the 100 to 1500 simultaneously......

from wiki:
She is the only person, male or female, to hold every world freestyle record from 100 m to 1500 m simultaneously, and the first female swimmer ever to win three Olympic gold medals in world record time.

pretty damn impressive as long as you're asking.

Jeff Commings
August 20th, 2008, 04:14 PM
Natalie Coughlin one-upped Libby Trickett to win six medals.

justforfun
August 20th, 2008, 04:28 PM
don't forget to give credit to the other swimmers that made phelps' gold rush possible. he owes those guys big time.

Do you mean his relay mates or Bernard and Cavic?

You're right about Shane Gould--3 individual gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze in 1972. No relay medals for Australia. Add some relay medals in there and it's quite a haul. She was only 16. How many medals might she have won if she had swum in 2 more Olympic Games?

DaveS
August 20th, 2008, 04:36 PM
Kristin Otto won 6 gold medals at the 1988 Olympics, I think.

USMSarah
August 20th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Me personally...I think Hoff is one of the best all around female swimmers... just don't think she was quite ready for the type of schedule she swam..... 2012 should be interesting to watch

Ditto. She will know what to work on for the next 4 years. Now that Bowman is back...

tjrpatt
August 20th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Katie Hoff tried to have a Phelpsian performance but came up short. I think that she could do it at London.

Coughlin could have gotten 8 medals but it doesn't seem that she wants to put the effort into that type of schedule. It just seem that it was like pulling teeth to get her to do the 200 IM. She could have medaled in the 100 fly or maybe 200 fly.

knelson
August 20th, 2008, 06:14 PM
Me personally...I think Hoff is one of the best all around female swimmers... just don't think she was quite ready for the type of schedule she swam

I don't think the schedule was the problem, she just didn't have a good meet. She was beaten convincingly by Rice and Coventry on the very first day of finals, after all.

chaos
August 20th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Do you mean his relay mates or Bernard and Cavic?

You're right about Shane Gould--3 individual gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze in 1972. No relay medals for Australia. Add some relay medals in there and it's quite a haul. She was only 16. How many medals might she have won if she had swum in 2 more Olympic Games?

i was referring to his relay mates.

also note: no 1500 for women in 1972

Old Navy
August 20th, 2008, 07:41 PM
Katie Hoff is still maturing and should be even better in 2012. Coventry and Rice both looked great but I don't know much longer they can hold on to the form.

My hope is thes games stoked the fire in Hoff. She's got the stroke versatility to make the schedule.

Frank Thompson
August 20th, 2008, 08:32 PM
don't forget to give credit to the other swimmers that made phelps' gold rush possible. he owes those guys big time.

shane gould didn't have that kind of support, but did hold every freestyle record from the 100 to 1500 simultaneously......

from wiki:
She is the only person, male or female, to hold every world freestyle record from 100 m to 1500 m simultaneously, and the first female swimmer ever to win three Olympic gold medals in world record time.

pretty damn impressive as long as you're asking.

This statement is not correct. Shane Gould is one of two swimmers to hold every world freestyle record from 100 meters to 1500 meters simultaneously. Helen Madison in 1931 accomplished this feat also. She also won every available freestyle event at the 1932 Olympics (100 Free, 400 Free, 400 Free Relay).

http://www.ishof.org/honorees/66/66hmadison.html

chaos
August 20th, 2008, 08:44 PM
This statement is not correct. Shane Gould is one of two swimmers to hold every world freestyle record from 100 meters to 1500 meters simultaneously. Helen Madison in 1931 accomplished this feat also. She also won every available freestyle event at the 1932 Olympics (100 Free, 400 Free, 400 Free Relay).

http://www.ishof.org/honorees/66/66hmadison.html

thanks frank. i was too young in 1931 to remember that.

someone should revise that wikipedia page!

ehoch
August 20th, 2008, 09:07 PM
Kristin Otto won 6 gold medals at the 1988 Olympics, I think.

We are all just doing a lot of talking for the fun of it - but I strongly object to putting Kristin Otto in the same category than any of the swimmers mentioned in this post. What's next - Marion Jones as the greatest Olympian ?

One of the key requirements for a Phelps type of effort are the relays -- only the US or Australia would have any hope to sweep or medal in all the relays. Other than that - I think Phelps has made it more possible for swimmers to challenge in multiple events. In terms of indiv. events, Coventry took medals in 4 - and Hoff certainly has the ability to medal in 5 - Coughlin can't do the schedule, but could medal in at least 4 events. It will be interesting to see what events Stephanie Rice may add - 200 Free / 200 Back ?

knelson
August 20th, 2008, 11:19 PM
Helen Madison in 1931 accomplished this feat also. She also won every available freestyle event at the 1932 Olympics (100 Free, 400 Free, 400 Free Relay).

Helene Madison, actually. She was from Seattle and the closest pool to my house is named for her!


Katie Hoff is still maturing and should be even better in 2012. Coventry and Rice both looked great but I don't know much longer they can hold on to the form.

Rice is only 20. Almost exactly one year older than Hoff.

hofffam
August 20th, 2008, 11:40 PM
Katie Hoff tried to have a Phelpsian performance but came up short. I think that she could do it at London.

Coughlin could have gotten 8 medals but it doesn't seem that she wants to put the effort into that type of schedule. It just seem that it was like pulling teeth to get her to do the 200 IM. She could have medaled in the 100 fly or maybe 200 fly.

No way Coughlin could pull this off. She fades at the end of her 100s. If she swam 17 races she would fare far worse. Coughlin doesn't train for 400s like Phelps and would have nothing left after 4-5 days of racing.

justforfun
August 21st, 2008, 10:38 AM
Good stuff.

I was just kidding about Bernard and Cavic. Of course, the relay strength is essential. But it's also true that Phelps would have had 6 golds and 2 silvers if not for Bernard's (swimming on Lezak's lane line) and Cavic's (bad finish with head up) mistakes.

Hoch's point about only a woman from US or Australia having a legitimate shot is true, I think. That's why I favor Trickett. She could conceivable win all 3 relay golds, plus 50-100-200 free and 100 fly, for a total of 7. The problem is, by 2012 Cate Campbell will probably have passed her by permanently in the 50 and 100.

The problem with Hoff winning so many golds is that she doesn't swim 100's. I doubt she would ever be on all 3 relays, unless she becomes top 2 for Americans in the 100 free.

knelson
August 21st, 2008, 10:45 AM
The problem with Hoff winning so many golds is that she doesn't swim 100's. I doubt she would ever be on all 3 relays, unless she becomes top 2 for Americans in the 100 free.

Actually she swam a really good 100 free back in February at the Missouri Grand Prix meet. If she could have gone the same time at Trials it would have placed her fourth ahead of Hardy.

justforfun
August 21st, 2008, 11:09 AM
Actually she swam a really good 100 free back in February at the Missouri Grand Prix meet. If she could have gone the same time at Trials it would have placed her fourth ahead of Hardy.

So, assuming she could improve enough in the 100 free to get on all 3 relays, what would her schedule have to look like? 100-200-400 frees and 200-400 IM? That would be pretty similar to Phelps' schedule. Or, 200-400-800 frees and both IM's. If she works on 100 free speed, she should probably drop the 800. Then again, I'm guessing she'll decide she doesn't ever want to attack 4-5 individual events again and pick her 3 best. That would still leave her with a potential for 6 golds.