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elise526
August 21st, 2008, 01:31 PM
How can one truly know what swimming distances one is best suited for? Can it be possible that somebody is better suited for distance but it is not showing due to low yardage in training? Are there some quick ways to figure this out?

LindsayNB
August 21st, 2008, 01:52 PM
I would use a three step process:
1) have them swim 8 x 25m all out with fins for time on a long interval
2) have them swim 20 minutes for distance
3) ignoring any numbers from steps 1 and 2, ask them which one they enjoyed doing more.

:D

aquageek
August 21st, 2008, 01:52 PM
ADD/ADHD/OCD/PMS/FUBAR/Whiney/Nervous = sprinter

Mensa/Beautiful or Very handsome/Popular = distance

Lump
August 21st, 2008, 02:28 PM
Muscle fiber too...generally you are either fast twitch or slow twitch.

SwimStud
August 21st, 2008, 02:30 PM
ADD/ADHD/OCD/PMS/FUBAR/Whiney/Nervous = sprinter

Mensa/Beautiful or Very handsome/Popular = distance


GEEK = Triathlete (wannabe)
:party2:

knelson
August 21st, 2008, 02:39 PM
There's no way anyone would ever think I'm a sprinter, but according to USA Swimming's Power Point Calculator (http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=834&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en) I'm slightly better in the 50 free than I am in the 1500 free! I like to run my times through for comparison and found out my relay leadoff 50 free time in Portland scored 594 points while my 1500 free was worth 583.

Michael Phelps' 200 free is worth 1114 points, by the way :bow:

gaash
August 21st, 2008, 02:49 PM
This one is very hard to determine.. one crude way is in the weight room which the original poster can try. Find your 1RM (one rep max, i.e. the heaviest weight you can lift just once) and then see how many times you can lift 80% of it. If you rep under 7, that usually means that muscle group has more fast twitch than slow, if you rep 12 or more, it means the muscle group is more slow twitch than fast. In between is, well, in between



Muscle fiber too...generally you are either fast twitch or slow twitch.

SwimStud
August 21st, 2008, 02:50 PM
There's no way anyone would ever think I'm a sprinter, but according to USA Swimming's Power Point Calculator (http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=834&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en) I'm slightly better in the 50 free than I am in the 1500 free! I like to run my times through for comparison and found out my relay leadoff 50 free time in Portland scored 594 points while my 1500 free was worth 583.

Michael Phelps' 200 free is worth 1114 points, by the way :bow:

According to that calculator I should give up!

The Fortress
August 21st, 2008, 03:01 PM
How can one truly know what swimming distances one is best suited for? Can it be possible that somebody is better suited for distance but it is not showing due to low yardage in training? Are there some quick ways to figure this out?


It's not really possible to mistake me for anything other than a sprinter even though I :bow: distance folks.

Geek's assessment is probably about right. Not exactly sure what FUBAR is, but I suspect it's something uncomplimentary looks wise.

Forget about that USA calculator. That's for kids who train a ton.

jnbaker
August 21st, 2008, 03:02 PM
My highschool coach used to give everyone a vertical jump test. His rule of thumb was that anyone who could jump over 21" was a sprinter.

pwolf66
August 21st, 2008, 03:10 PM
My highschool coach used to give everyone a vertical jump test. His rule of thumb was that anyone who could jump over 21" was a sprinter.


Crap, then I should be swimming distance?? Noooooooooooooooooooooooo. I ur a sprintur

SwimStud
August 21st, 2008, 03:28 PM
It's not really possible to mistake me for anything other than a sprinter even though I :bow: distance folks.

Geek's assessment is probably about right. Not exactly sure what FUBAR is, but I suspect it's something uncomplimentary looks wise.

Forget about that USA calculator. That's for kids who train a ton.

FUBAR
"Fouled" up beyond all recognition.
DILLIGAF/DILLIGAFF
Do I look like I give a "freak" / flying "freak"

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? <---I love that one!

knelson
August 21st, 2008, 03:28 PM
Forget about that USA calculator. That's for kids who train a ton.

Probably true, but interesting as a point of reference. I thought I remember a website that did something sorta similar for masters, but I can't seem to find it anymore. I thought maybe Chris Stevenson maintained it?

ande
August 21st, 2008, 03:38 PM
How can one truly know what swimming distances one is best suited for?
Can it be possible that somebody is better suited for distance but it is not showing due to low yardage in training?
Are there some quick ways to figure this out?


Train for a few months then enter a meet, swim the
50 fr
100 fr
200 fr
500 fr
1000 fr
1650 fr
post your times and splits,
we'll tell you what we think you are

actually just enter the 50 100 200 & 500

a lot of what you are depends on the training you do

I've seen several former sprinters convert themselves into distance swimmers
how awful is that?
pity what a shame?

which events do you enjoy?
what type of training do you enjoy?

we become what we do
but we are what we are

I did a lot of middle distance training my last 3 years in high school then focused on sprints in college

Actually you could just test by swimming a
25,
50,
100, &
200

Distance: not much speed but can keep going

Middle Distance: mix speed and endurance

Sprinter: pure speed not much else

Sprinters: tend to be good jumpers, post fast times on sprints then fall off badly in longer races, no sense of realistic pace, fly and die kinda guys (and girls)

ie look at Rich Abrahams LCM times from 2006
2006 Long Course Meters Place Event Name Age Club LMSC Time
1 M60-64 50 Free Richard Abrahams 61 CMS Colorado 25.23
1 M60-64 100 Free Richard Abrahams 61 CMS Colorado 59.50
2 M60-64 200 Free Richard Abrahams 61 CMS Colorado 2:18.52
he is a SPRINTER
most swimmers with 25.2 50 speed
could go 54 mid 55 low in the 100
his 100 time falls off sharply from his 50

we compare 50's to 100's and 100's to 200's

look at your 100 to 200 ratios
one good rule of thumb is to compare a swimmers
100 and 200 times

if you double their 100 time
how many seconds do you need to add to arrive at their 200 time

double rich's 100 and add about 20 seconds, to arrive at his 200
this makes him a sprinter,

sprinters tend to be 12 or more

middle distance falls 7 - 11

distance swimmers are 4 - 6

you can also compare how swimmers split their races
sprinters often poorly split 200's (i didn't feel like I was trying)

middle distance swimmers have more pace sense

distance swimmers just go as hard as they can but really can't get going because they don't have much speed but they can keep going


a friend of mine told me about a 14 year old boy in California
who's 100 LCM free time was :56 and his 200 LCM free time was 1:56
he is a distance swimmer

in high school I swam with a swimmer who's
100 fr was :58 and his 200 fr was 2:00
he's was a distance swimmer
he was a sick guy who liked 2,000s, 3,000s, 4,000s, 5,000's & 10,000's for time
his brother wound up being a 10k & 25k distance champion

When I compare my 100 to 200 times
I tend to be around 10 seconds
so I'm a middle distance guy who wants to be a sprinter

This also varies from long course to short course.
and by the recent training a swimmer does

It doesn't sound like you've been training much
put in 2 or 3 months of good training then test yourself
swim a hard 100 & 200
throw in a 50 and 400 or 500 for grins
post your times and splits

sprinters tend to have fast turns and push offs

good luck
hope this helps

Ande

poolraat
August 21st, 2008, 04:10 PM
FUBAR
"Fouled" up beyond all recognition.
DILLIGAF/DILLIGAFF
Do I look like I give a "freak" / flying "freak"

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? <---I love that one!

And don't forget - Charlie Foxtrot

Chris Stevenson
August 21st, 2008, 04:28 PM
Probably true, but interesting as a point of reference. I thought I remember a website that did something sorta similar for masters, but I can't seem to find it anymore. I thought maybe Chris Stevenson maintained it?

WAY better for masters than the USA calculator, if I say so myself:

http://www.vaswim.org/cgi-bin/rcalc.cgi

(Our webmaster wrote and maintains it, I just did the fittings and provided the coefficients for the calculations.)

Knock yourself out.

chaos
August 21st, 2008, 04:36 PM
distance swimmers are too smart/cheap to pay $5 to enter an event that takes less than 25 seconds. thats a rate of over $600 dollars per hour as opposed to about $15 dollars per hour for 1650's!!

(but hey....its your money)

knelson
August 21st, 2008, 04:55 PM
WAY better for masters than the USA calculator, if I say so myself:

OK, these scores seem more realistic for me: 86.7 for the 50 free, 93.3 for the 1500.

pwolf66
August 21st, 2008, 05:03 PM
distance swimmers are too smart/cheap to pay $5 to enter an event that takes less than 25 seconds. thats a rate of over $600 dollars per hour as opposed to about $15 dollars per hour for 1650's!!

(but hey....its your money)

Hmm, but that gives us sprinters 15 more minutes to :drink:

But I agree. Let's increase the fee for the 1650 to $500. That way it can help to offset the therapy required by us sprinters to have to watch that :drown: :drown:

bcm119
August 21st, 2008, 05:10 PM
The nipple test is pretty reliable*

Big round nipples = sprint freestyler
little compact nipples = back stroker
big, horizontally ovalized nipples = butterflyer/breastroker
little, ovalized nipples = distance freestyler


*a joke, but surprisingly true
** based on men; theory not tested on women

ndecker
August 21st, 2008, 05:39 PM
Another way to look at it would be what your recovery is like on hard sets. If you recover quickly and can do the next repeat with very little rest, you are probably better suited to distance swimming. If swimming hard takes a lot out of you and you take a long time to recover in order to put out the same kind of effort on the next repeat, then you do not recover quickly and are probably better at sprinting.

This probably isn't at all accurate unless you're in decent shape to begin with :)

Ultimately, it probably comes down to a couple of things:

1) What do you enjoy most - short or long distance? This one is easy - do what you like to do the best.

2) Are you trying to be competitive? If so, just compare your times in various distances to those times of others in your age group. You can do this via the online calculators, or just by looking at the USMS Nationals qualifying times or results and adjust accordingly.

elise526
August 21st, 2008, 05:51 PM
Wow! So many good tips and comments to think about. O.k. I took my best times from the last five years and used the calculator that Chris referenced. I got 89.4 for my 50 and 88.1 for my 500. These times were done doing about 10,000 yards a week.

If I really want to see what I am capable of doing in the 500, how much should I be doing? This is not an event I have done very often and I have never done anything more than a 500 in a meet before. Is it worth it for me to train for the 1650?

knelson
August 21st, 2008, 06:09 PM
O.k. I took my best times from the last five years and used the calculator that Chris referenced. I got 89.4 for my 50 and 88.1 for my 500. These times were done doing about 10,000 yards a week.

There you have it. You're both!


If I really want to see what I am capable of doing in the 500, how much should I be doing?

Probably more than 10,000. Based on your score with that little training you could probably do very well in the distance events if you trained for them. Four workouts per week of 5,000 gets you 20,000.

elise526
August 21st, 2008, 06:13 PM
There you have it. You're both!



Probably more than 10,000. Based on your score with that little training you could probably do very well in the distance events if you trained for them. Four workouts per week of 5,000 gets you 20,000.

Thanks, Kirk. Would you share some of your favorite sets for training distance? This is not an area that I have tons of experience in.

Chris Stevenson
August 21st, 2008, 07:13 PM
Thanks, Kirk. Would you share some of your favorite sets for training distance? This is not an area that I have tons of experience in.

Elise, are you self-coached? You might want to try some of the workout in the (appropriately named!) "workouts" forum. I do not use them so I don't know how good they are. Maybe others can comment on good sources for workouts, I am fortunate to have an excellent deck coach.

As far as the question of "should" you train for distance or not, that really depends on whether you like those events. (And I would consider the 500 middle-distance, anyway).

10,000 yards per week is a little low, though some manage on that; it depends also on what cross-training you do; I think you mentioned that you do a lot of running?

More important than the weekly yardage is the intensity level of your swimming. 20,000 yards of fitness swimming does not prepare you as well as 10,000 yards that contains some high intensity and race-pace efforts.

rtodd
August 21st, 2008, 09:52 PM
Train for a few months then enter a meet, swim the
50 fr
100 fr
200 fr
500 fr
1000 fr
1650 fr
post your times and splits,
we'll tell you what we think you are



You think Abrahams falls off!

SCY:
50- 26.6
100- 61.04
200- 2:29.15
500- 6:49.16

SCM:
50- 29.78
100- 1:13.12
200- 2:50.01

Now this shows I'm a sprinter.

ViveBene
August 21st, 2008, 09:58 PM
Thanks, Kirk. Would you share some of your favorite sets for training distance? This is not an area that I have tons of experience in.

I'm not Kirk, but do take a look at the daily sets posted by Coach Chris Layton in the "Workouts" forum. They have been for distance all summer. Chris Layton at the end of July completed a very long swim; see the top page of this site.

I would include some sprinting and kick sets each week, as that should also help with the distance swims.

VB

thewookiee
August 21st, 2008, 10:28 PM
Hmm, but that gives us sprinters 15 more minutes to :drink:

But I agree. Let's increase the fee for the 1650 to $500. That way it can help to offset the therapy required by us sprinters to have to watch that :drown: :drown:

LMAO...there is nothing worse than having to watch anything over a 500.

CreamPuff
August 21st, 2008, 10:36 PM
Oh my god. Not this again.
Using the USA-S swim tool thing-y
602 - 50 m fly
601 - 400 m free
ha ha

knelson
August 22nd, 2008, 01:33 AM
LMAO...there is nothing worse than having to watch anything over a 500.

That's why they have a separate distance day at Nationals. You sprinters can remain blissfully unaware that the 1000 and 1650 are even contested ;)

Back to elise's request for distance workouts I don't really have anything specific. I train with a team and we do something different every day. I personally wouldn't recommend lots of long swims. Too boring. We tend to do main sets in the 2,000-3,000 yard range. Most of the time the distances of the individuals swims are 300 or under. I like sets that mix things up. Something like 20x100 isn't my cup of tea.

david.margrave
August 22nd, 2008, 02:13 AM
It looks like I'm a slightly better sprinter than distance swimmer.

50 scy: 82.0
1650: 78.1

50 LCM: 81.1
1500: 77.9

elise526
August 22nd, 2008, 10:11 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, Chris, ViveBene, and Kirk! Yes, I am self-coached since the nearest team (besides the class I teach once a week) with an on-deck coach is over an hour away. I'm going to try the workouts you suggested.

Lump
August 22nd, 2008, 07:47 PM
We used to have shirts that read:

When the going gets tough, the Sprinters get out

There I said it.....need I say more?!:lolup: