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Doug Adamavich
August 29th, 2008, 12:45 PM
OK, I don't have a life...I am already stoked about swimming in the IUPUI pool next August. I think I am one of the few (former) midwesterners who has not swum in that facility. Have always wanted to go to Nationals there but something always came up.

Not in 2009!!!

A bunch of us from Arizona are already planning on going. Yes, even Jeff (Short Course) Commings is going to be a part of this meet! It should be a fun and fast event. Digging the all relay day on Saturday, good job Mel and Kris!

Anybody else stoked?

JimRude
August 30th, 2008, 11:12 AM
As I remember from my last visit in the mid 1980s - great pool, crappy city...

Karlene
August 30th, 2008, 11:27 AM
I think you'll find that the city has changed dramatically since the mid 80's. They have the NCAA Hall of Fame, a canal walk through the center of the city, good museums, small but nice zoo, botanical gardens, and a AAA baseball field, all within a very short distance from the pool. The ISF crew puts on a great meet and a great social. Last social I went to was at the NCAA Hall of Fame.

pwb
August 30th, 2008, 07:47 PM
great pool, crappy city...

Au contraire, you gotta give Indy another chance. There are a number of good restaurants (try St. Elmo's shrimp cocktail before your sprint events -- it'll light you on fire), it's a simple city to get around, some good bed & breakfasts as well as all of the usual suspects of lodging. Stay downtown and you can walk anywhere you need to go in the evening for food and entertainment. If all that fails, head to the Claddagh Irish Pub for a great pint of Guiness.

Doug Adamavich
September 2nd, 2008, 11:13 AM
As I remember from my last visit in the mid 1980s - great pool, crappy city...

Here are my thoughts on Indianapolis (the city).

VERY nice downtown, I was very impressed with it during my visits.

Good airport too, never had any trouble getting in or flying out.

Road system is excellent, however there are MANY Interstates that go through town.

Word is the pool is fantastic and that the hosts always do a good job whenever they host nationals.

However, most of Indianapolis is nothing to write home about. It was (is?) an industrialized town and has seen better days. Other than the USGP, the MotoGP race, or USMS Nationals, I would not make a stop there for vacation.

That said, I am SOOOOOOOO looking forward to swimming there in 2009.

Meegan Wilson
October 12th, 2008, 09:19 PM
Does anyone know the order of events and which days for the LC Nats in Indy?

matysekj
October 12th, 2008, 09:50 PM
Hi Meegan,

I have the order of events for both nationals for next year and the qualifying times for SC Nationals in Clovis. I'll be finishing up getting everything in the database and will make them publicly available some time this week.

LC nationals qualifying times for Indy won't be ready until some time after the final top 10 for LCM for this year are published (they're based on the recent 3 years of top 10 data).

Meegan Wilson
October 12th, 2008, 09:56 PM
Thanks Jim!

Lump
October 12th, 2008, 10:09 PM
Looking forward to it. I think the last time I swam there was NCAA's in 1990 or 1991 (can't quite remember). Great facility!

WPSWIMS
October 12th, 2008, 10:32 PM
Meegan,
Welcome to your new age group! Looking forward to seeing you after so many years. I am skipping Fresno, but plan to go to Indy and Atlanta. Let me know if you travel to Colorado. Hope to make it to a ST. Pete one of these days...usually I am still skiing.

mjgold
October 13th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Where do you find the order of events when they're made available?

Meegan Wilson
October 13th, 2008, 03:38 PM
Hi Winnie,

I hope to see you at Indy and St Pete too. I thought I had your email address, but can't find it.

Doug Adamavich
October 17th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Where do you find the order of events when they're made available?

Normally they would be here:

http://www.usms.org/comp/nationals.php

...but the Order of Events is not posted yet.

OK, I am *really* excited about IUPUI and can't wait!

barryf
October 20th, 2008, 10:25 PM
Check out the minutes of Session 1 for the Championship Committee at:
http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/champ-2008-9-25-1.pdf

The Tentative Schedule of Events that was passed out at the meeting is attached.

Michelina
October 21st, 2008, 11:20 AM
Check out the minutes of Session 1 for the Championship Committee at:
http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/champ-2008-9-25-1.pdf

The Tentative Schedule of Events that was passed out at the meeting is attached.

I hope they split up the 1500 and 800. :dunno: I would be nice for the distance folk to be able to do both if they like. :groovy:

imspoiled
October 21st, 2008, 12:56 PM
I hope they split up the 1500 and 800. :dunno: I would be nice for the distance folk to be able to do both if they like. :groovy:

You gave up the mile in Portland. Or are you reconsidering?:afraid:

pwolf66
October 21st, 2008, 01:39 PM
I hope they split up the 1500 and 800. :dunno: I would be nice for the distance folk to be able to do both if they like. :groovy:


EXCUSE me? I think someone has somehow suffered brain damage. I beleive there were comments about 'never again' and 'Ef MP' in there somewhere? Now I understand why there are some women who endure the ordeal of childbirth over and over again. Thier brains do not process for long term retention the agony endured.

FlyQueen
October 21st, 2008, 01:56 PM
EXCUSE me? I think someone has somehow suffered brain damage. I beleive there were comments about 'never again' and 'Ef MP' in there somewhere? Now I understand why there are some women who endure the ordeal of childbirth over and over again. Thier brains do not process for long term retention the agony endured.

Perhaps it was similar to someone quitting the 100 fly at SCY nationals only to swim it in Portland?

pwolf66
October 21st, 2008, 02:09 PM
Soooooo,

Since my plan is to go back to my roots as a Free/Flyer. What events would I swim?

Thur
50 Fly

Friday
100 Free

Sat
None - unless I sell my soul to another team. Any offers?

Sun
50 Free
100 Fly - love that these are back to back :groovy:

Now that's 4 individual events. What should the other 2 be?

200 Free on Thursday?
200 Fly on Friday? :toohurt:
400 Free on Sunday? :toohurt:
200 IM on Sunday?

Something else?

jim clemmons
October 21st, 2008, 03:02 PM
Soooooo,

Since my plan is to go back to my roots as a Free/Flyer. What events would I swim?

Thur
50 Fly

Friday
100 Free

Sat
None - unless I sell my soul to another team. Any offers?

Sun
50 Free
100 Fly - love that these are back to back :groovy:

Now that's 4 individual events. What should the other 2 be?

200 Free on Thursday?
200 Fly on Friday? :toohurt:
400 Free on Sunday? :toohurt:
200 IM on Sunday?

Something else?

200 free on Thursday, 800 on Monday - evens things out nicely. C'mon, man up!

pwolf66
October 21st, 2008, 03:21 PM
200 free on Thursday, 800 on Monday - evens things out nicely. C'mon, man up!

800?????? :eeew: :bolt:

Michelina
October 21st, 2008, 04:03 PM
You gave up the mile in Portland. Or are you reconsidering?:afraid:

Never ever said anything about giving up my retirement...:thhbbb:

However, it would be nice for crazy folk who want to do both... to be able to do both. :joker:

And thanks to Big Tree and FlyGirl (and countless others) for taking care of me while in need in Portland. There is a reason why I have not had a kid yet... if I can't finish the 1500... how on earth could I endure child birth!

Michelina
October 21st, 2008, 04:10 PM
Soooooo,

Sat
None - unless I sell my soul to another team. Any offers?



We need to discuss this before the end of the year...

Team Hot Tub??? or maybe other team might like Big Tree Fall Hard and Dances with Water to join the ranks... and even imspoiled might be up for grabs!

:groovy:

imspoiled
October 21st, 2008, 04:18 PM
We need to discuss this before the end of the year...

Team Hot Tub??? or maybe other team might like Big Tree Fall Hard and Dances with Water to join the ranks... and even imspoiled might be up for grabs!

:groovy:

Only if Stud is doing the grabbing!:lmao: Had to get that in before he did.:thhbbb:

Michelina
October 21st, 2008, 04:27 PM
Only if Stud is doing the grabbing!:lmao: Had to get that in before he did.:thhbbb:

hahahahaahahahah:joker:

That was too funny... but on point for sure... :bliss:

FlyQueen
October 21st, 2008, 05:33 PM
Soooooo,

Since my plan is to go back to my roots as a Free/Flyer. What events would I swim?

Thur
50 Fly

Friday
100 Free

Sat
None - unless I sell my soul to another team. Any offers?

Sun
50 Free
100 Fly - love that these are back to back :groovy:

Now that's 4 individual events. What should the other 2 be?

200 Free on Thursday?
200 Fly on Friday? :toohurt:
400 Free on Sunday? :toohurt:
200 IM on Sunday?

Something else?

Are you sure that is the event order? I thought it was the same as Austin with the relay day thrown in? This makes me happy if it's right!!!

SwimRobin
October 21st, 2008, 10:40 PM
That should be the most recent proposed event order that was presented at Convention. I would love to see Big Tree switch things up and swim the 800 free!

Michelina
October 22nd, 2008, 10:37 AM
That should be the most recent proposed event order that was presented at Convention. I would love to see Big Tree switch things up and swim the 800 free!

And I would count for him! :bliss:

FlyQueen
October 22nd, 2008, 04:58 PM
That should be the most recent proposed event order that was presented at Convention. I would love to see Big Tree switch things up and swim the 800 free!

Where do the other 2 50s fall in?

SwimRobin
October 22nd, 2008, 09:24 PM
It would be fun to gridge with him on that 800 free too!

The Fortress
October 22nd, 2008, 10:14 PM
Check out the minutes of Session 1 for the Championship Committee at:
http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/champ-2008-9-25-1.pdf

The Tentative Schedule of Events that was passed out at the meeting is attached.

Effen horrible. Last day, 50 free, 100 fly and 50 back are back-to-back. Who thought that was remotely OK for sprinters?!?! And yet another championship meet with fly-back back-to-back ... I was planning on going, but I may cancel my plans and swim in kid meets. Seriously, this is utter crap.

pwolf66
October 22nd, 2008, 10:15 PM
Give it up, ladies. Not gonna happen.

The Fortress
October 22nd, 2008, 10:27 PM
Effen horrible. Last day, 50 free, 100 fly and 50 back are back-to-back. Who thought that was remotely OK for sprinters?!?! And yet another championship meet with fly-back back-to-back ... I was planning on going, but I may cancel my plans and swim in kid meets. Seriously, this is utter crap.

As a further rant, I would note that the sprint fly and back events have been back to back in all championship meets I've swum in lately, including (since Dec.) the NE SCM Champs (all four on same day, for real torture), CZ SCY Zones in April, SCY Nationals in Austin, and CZ LCM Zones. Does it really have to be this way every single meet? As I recall, the same thing is true for Clovis and now for Indy. C'mon.

At some point, I think the long axis swimmers or the fly/free swimmers or the 5 pack freestylers can suffer and swim back to back events or give up their fav events too. Spread the love!

Michelina
October 22nd, 2008, 10:27 PM
Give it up, ladies. Not gonna happen.

If Stud can do it... so can you! You can even borrow his pretty print of a swim suit! :laugh2:

Blackbeard's Peg
October 22nd, 2008, 10:45 PM
That should be the most recent proposed event order that was presented at Convention. I would love to see Big Tree switch things up and swim the 800 free!

note to the ranters: key words bolded

Blackbeard's Peg
October 22nd, 2008, 11:20 PM
Fort,

Get yourself on a relay and swim the 50 back and/or 50 free leadoff then; then swim the other on Sunday. Problem solved.

FlyQueen
October 23rd, 2008, 08:30 AM
I'll bet beers with anyone that Fort will never have a meet that she doesn't complain about a ton prior to the meet. :thhbbb:

pwolf66
October 23rd, 2008, 08:43 AM
I'll bet beers with anyone that Fort will never have a meet that she doesn't complain about a ton prior to the meet. :thhbbb:


A bet can only occur when there is uncertainty about the outcome. In this case, you're just trying to get free beer. :thhbbb:

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 08:48 AM
I'll bet beers with anyone that Fort will never have a meet that she doesn't complain about a ton prior to the meet. :thhbbb:

And I'll bet beers that hell will freeze over before the 5 pack freestylers don't have their events spread perfectly over the course of a meet. :thhbbb: Or how about a Zone meet with the 100 fly and 100 free back to back? What, you've never had to do that?! :thhbbb: I swam the 100 back once last year in SCY because it was always back to back with another fly event. Oh, yeah, that happened at LCM Zones too ... Not hours of rest there, that's for sure. More like minutes. Seriously, the fly-back swimmers always take it on the chin. If the pain were spread around more evenly, I wouldn't complain. When it's always the same, it gets discouraging and annoying.

Right now, my plan is to swim in junior and senior champs with the kids next summer unless the order of events is changed. Paying a lot of money to swim 3 of my best events back to back on the last day of a long travel meet doesn't sound like a good plan. :shakeshead:

And ragging on me will not change my mind.

Don't know if enough of my teammates will even go for relays, Muppet.

imspoiled
October 23rd, 2008, 09:02 AM
At some point, I think the long axis swimmers or the fly/free swimmers or the 5 pack freestylers can suffer and swim back to back events or give up their fav events too. Spread the love!

Um, I'm a long axis swimmer. I'm looking at the 100 back and the 100 free back-to-back on day 2 and the same 50 free/ 50 back combo on day 4. BTW, the last day of the meet is Day 5--Monday, where they have kindly added the distance events. Nothing like a 1500 at the end of a long travel meet.

All the sprinters need to stop complaining. You can swim 6 events of various sprint distances, spread out throughout the meet. Those of us that like swimming the 800 & 1500 however, have them lumped together on the same day--generally with restrictions on entering both events (i.e. having to give up one of them).

On the bright side--there's nothing compelling me to swim on Thursday, so maybe that can be travel day! I'll just need to get there in time to see if the piano drops on Michelle on the lst 50 of the 200 free!!:bliss:

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 09:12 AM
Um, 50 free and 50 back are not back to back, Dana. (My other good event separates them.) I'm irritated that all 3 are back to back on the last day. I know you probably get enough rest at Nats if you have two. I have the same problem at other big meets as well, however, where you do NOT get enough rest.

If they're just rotating the same 3 orders of events, maybe they should think about changing the 3 possibilities every once in awhile.

Boo hoo on the 1500. 50 free is very often the last event of a meet too. And 50 back (my best event) is at the very end here (and was in Austin and will be in Clovis too --- WTF, 3 national meets in a row?!). They're not great events to have last either when you're dead tired. Sprinting is exhausting too.

Just not inspired to drop mega dollars on that.

pwolf66
October 23rd, 2008, 09:46 AM
I'll just need to get there in time to see if the piano drops on Michelle on the lst 50 of the 200 free!!:bliss:

No, we have prior evidence that she prefers it be delivered at about the 110 meter mark.

FlyQueen
October 23rd, 2008, 09:49 AM
Fort, we had fun in Portland without you. We can have fun in Indy without you. HOWEVER, bail on that damn 100 fly. The 50 is better. The 6th event very well may get dropped anyway. So make the middle one of the three your 6th event. You will get rest so what if it is your last day of the meet you will be well rested from not having swum much the three days or two or whatever before.

I'll even let you kick my arse up one side of the pool and down the other on the 100 fly again.

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 09:54 AM
Fort, we had fun in Portland without you. We can have fun in Indy without you.

Have fun. :wave::wave:

pwolf66
October 23rd, 2008, 09:54 AM
Fort,

I understand how you feel. That Sunday order just sucks. I'm not happy about 50 Free and 100 Fly being back to back. Why could they not put the 50 back as the first event after the 400? Or even the 50 Free? Wow, imagine that 50 Free EARLY in the day??? Oh wait....can't have that as evidenced by Austin and Portland. With a 30 minute warmup after the 400, even folks who want to swim the 400/50 combo should be fine.

Is this order for Sunday _that_ bad?

400 Free (men)
Break
50 Back/Free
200 Breast
100 Fly
50 Free/Back
200 IM

I know it's hard pleasing everyone but can there at least be some sort of long term fairness for event orders? Having three events in a row is just impossible to do well, even at Nats.

pwolf66
October 23rd, 2008, 10:03 AM
Ooooohkay.

Of course the event order that favors fly/back srinters is being used for SCY Nats.

http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats09/events.php

matysekj
October 23rd, 2008, 10:16 AM
Here's the basic problem you are faced with for creating a nationals order of events. There are 3 events of each stroke (50-100-200) plus 3 events of the IM (100-200-400), plus the 400/500 free that need to be fit into 3 days of swimming. The distance events take up the fourth day, and in Indy's case the relays take up the fifth day. So you have 3 events of each stroke and 3 days to spread them across. The way the thinking goes is that the majority of the swimmers don't want to have 2 events of the same stroke on any given day. That leaves you with one event each of fly, back, breast, free, and IM to put on each day, plus the spare 400/500 free to throw in on another day. It's just impossible to please everyone. Fort, it isn't just the 5-pack freestylers who get their events spread out, it's also the 3-pack flyers, backstrokers, breaststrokers, and IMers.

You can't possibly please everyone. I like to do breast, longer IMs, and middle distance free. I haven't been able to swim a 400/500 free very often at nationals lately because it seems to always interfere with the more important breast events. Oh well.

And by the way, that order of events for Indy is a done deal. It was voted on and approved at convention. I'm just holding off releasing some basic info for Indy because the info I have received is lacking or has the wrong info on hotel discount codes, and I don't want to be flooded with questions/complaints about that. It will be released as soon as that is cleared up.

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 10:24 AM
It's just impossible to please everyone ... You can't possibly please everyone.

Doubled up for emphasis! Of course, you can't. I'd be happy just to be pleased once in awhile.

No Nationals for me next year. I'll look for other meets in fast pools.

matysekj
October 23rd, 2008, 10:32 AM
Doubled up for emphasis! Of course, you can't. I'd be happy just to be pleased once in awhile.

Yeah, I realized that after posting - forgot to delete it from one place. Oops. And leave your personal life out of this, please.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

some_girl
October 23rd, 2008, 10:37 AM
Ooooohkay.

Of course the event order that favors fly/back srinters is being used for SCY Nats.

http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats09/events.php

Oh and look, two out of three days fly and free are back-to-back.

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 10:42 AM
Oh and look, two out of three days fly and free are back-to-back.

Yep, that one sucks for you guys! But I recall you're not going anyway. :thhbbb:

Nice Jim! lol

pwolf66
October 23rd, 2008, 10:46 AM
Oh and look, two out of three days fly and free are back-to-back.


Yeah but anyone who contemplates the 200 Fly deserves whatever happens. :angel:

50 Fly/200 Free, sure doable. Other way around? Madness.

some_girl
October 23rd, 2008, 11:02 AM
Yep, that one sucks for you guys! But I recall you're not going anyway. :thhbbb:

Nice Jim! lol

Oh I wasn't complaining--just pointing out you were wrong when you said it never happens. And look at Rutgers: 1 free/2 fly, two events, 2 free, 1 event, 50 fly; then Sunday 50 free/1 fly.

As to the 2 fly, Mr. Hulk, real flyers can swim all three distances of their stroke.

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 11:09 AM
Oh I wasn't complaining--just pointing out you were wrong when you said it never happens. And look at Rutgers: 1 free/2 fly, two events, 2 free, 1 event, 50 fly; then Sunday 50 free/1 fly.

As to the 2 fly, Mr. Hulk, real flyers can swim all three distances of their stroke.

Don't think I said "never." In fact, the same thing happened at my CZ LC Zones this summer. 100 fly and 50 free were back to back, as I recall. (LC Zones was a disaster for me. I couldn't swim either the 50 free or the 100 back. I stood on unrested times from a kiddie meet and was forced to swim BR instead.) So, it seems you've had some bad luck lately too. Still, Hulk is right, sprinters shouldn't swim the 2 fly! :thhbbb:

However, I think I can safely say that the 5 pack freestylers have "never" had back to back events.

pwolf66
October 23rd, 2008, 11:17 AM
As to the 2 fly, Mr. Hulk, real flyers can swim all three distances of their stroke.


I used to be a real flyer, now I just play one on TV. :cane: I might be again in the future, if I suffer serious brain trauma but for now. I'm OK with events where the pain is over in 1:20 or less. :bouncing:

Plus, distance people like to make such a big deal out of distance. :rolleyes: You know what distance allows one to be??? Mistake prone. "Oh gee, I just screwed up that turn, ah who cares, I have 2,456,234 more turns to make up for it" or "wow, that was a horrible start, ah who cares, I'll have to swim .01 seconds faster per 50 to make up for it"

Don't get me wrong, I respect distance swimmers, don't understand them :drown:, but still respect them but how about respecting the sprinters. We don't have room for ANY mistakes. :thhbbb:

matysekj
October 23rd, 2008, 11:20 AM
However, I think I can safely say that the 5 pack freestylers have "never" had back to back events.

2001 LC Nationals - see Sunday's events at http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats01/events.php

Same for 2000 SC Nationals - http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats00/events.php

Both had the 400/500 free for men back-to-back with the 100 free

pwolf66
October 23rd, 2008, 11:24 AM
However, I think I can safely say that the 5 pack freestylers have "never" had back to back events.

Remember, Jim. 'Never' really means 'since I've been a Masters swimmer'
:afraid:

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 11:26 AM
2001 LC Nationals - see Sunday's events at http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats01/events.php

Same for 2000 SC Nationals - http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats00/events.php

Both had the 400/500 free for men back-to-back with the 100 free

All right. Proven wrong! Now show me a Zones meet where this has happened. At least at Nats they're getting some rest between events.

some_girl
October 23rd, 2008, 11:29 AM
Plus, you distance people like to make such a big deal out of distance. :rolleyes: You know what distance allows you to be??? Mistake prone. "Oh gee, I just screwed up that turn, ah who cares, I have 2,456,234 more turns to make up for it" or "wow, that was a horrible start, ah who cares, I'll have to swim .01 seconds faster per 50 to make up for it"

Don't get me wrong, I respect distance swimmers, don't understand them :drown:, but still respect them but how about respecting the sprinters. We don't have room for ANY mistakes. :thhbbb:

"You distance people"? We have met, right? The closest I will ever come to that might be middle distance. I didn't say I *liked* the 200 fly, but I have been known to take one for the team and do it.

PS: You want a reaction time gridge, mister? Cause that is one I don't think you are going to win.

some_girl
October 23rd, 2008, 11:31 AM
All right. Proven wrong! Now show me a Zones meet where this has happened. At least at Nats they're getting some rest between events.

Does New Englands count? Last year: http://www.meetresults.com/2008/nelmscscy/results.shtml

pwolf66
October 23rd, 2008, 11:50 AM
"You distance people"? We have met, right? The closest I will ever come to that might be middle distance. I didn't say I *liked* the 200 fly, but I have been known to take one for the team and do it.

PS: You want a reaction time gridge, mister? Cause that is one I don't think you are going to win.


Sure, but let's combine it with the fastest to the 15m mark???? Or even the 10m mark? :thhbbb: There's a _reason_ why I'm the last off the block. Then again, I might just take you up on that as I have revamped my start quite a bit since Nationals :thhbbb:

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 11:51 AM
Does New Englands count? Last year: http://www.meetresults.com/2008/nelmscscy/results.shtml

Doesn't NE last all day like Nats?

Doug Adamavich
October 23rd, 2008, 11:58 AM
Is this order for Sunday _that_ bad?

400 Free (men)
Break
50 Back/Free
200 Breast
100 Fly
50 Free/Back
200 IM

I know it's hard pleasing everyone but can there at least be some sort of long term fairness for event orders? Having three events in a row is just impossible to do well, even at Nats.

It's rough but do-able. I will do the 200BR and 200IM but forgo the 100FL. That means an extra day in Indy but I will fly out early Monday morning. Boy is that going to be a painful/tired flight back to Phoenix...

On the good news side, Mark Gill won't get worked by me in the 100FL. He escapes my wrath again for another year :laugh2:

Michelina
October 23rd, 2008, 12:00 PM
On the bright side--there's nothing compelling me to swim on Thursday, so maybe that can be travel day! I'll just need to get there in time to see if the piano drops on Michelle on the lst 50 of the 200 free!!:bliss:

Now wait just a minute! There will be no more piano dropping. Maybe next time it will be a bulldozer!!! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

some_girl
October 23rd, 2008, 12:15 PM
Doesn't NE last all day like Nats?

Doesn't Zones? I'd say less time than Nats and more time than your run-of-the mill meet. About the same as it was at Boston SCM last year.

some_girl
October 23rd, 2008, 12:22 PM
Sure, but let's combine it with the fastest to the 15m mark???? Or even the 10m mark? :thhbbb: There's a _reason_ why I'm the last off the block. Then again, I might just take you up on that as I have revamped my start quite a bit since Nationals :thhbbb:

Hm, how would the math for that one work? My race times are a LOT slower, so how do you break that out?

Anyway, I thought up a lot of _reasons_ why you might be so slow off the block, but none of them is very complimentary.

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 12:24 PM
Doesn't Zones? I'd say less time than Nats and more time than your run-of-the mill meet. About the same as it was at Boston SCM last year.

Well, not CZ. Done by noon or so in LC. But, yeah, Boston SCM was pretty long. But didn't they start at almost 11:00 am one morning?!

Whatever. Obviously, people have to take things like distance of travel, order of events, etc. into consideration when selecting travel meets assuming they can't go to loads of them. I really can't go to more than one Nats a year, so I was hoping for Indy. Since it doesn't work out, I'm out of luck for 2008. It looks like there are some good kiddie LC meets in PV anyway. Not as fun as masters. I'll look for a SCM travel meet instead.

Doug Adamavich
October 23rd, 2008, 01:48 PM
I'll look for a SCM travel meet instead.

There will be three SCM meets in AZ in 2009 that you may consider. Weather is beautiful in the fall and you have lots of wonderful places to experience. The Ron Johnson Invitational at ASU in November is the largest meet and draws a lot of people. It's in downtown Tempe, which is a cool place to hang out. Plus, the light rail system should be up and running then. You could fly into the airport and catch the train to the pool if you are so inclined.

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pwolf66
October 23rd, 2008, 01:52 PM
Anyway, I thought up a lot of _reasons_ why you might be so slow off the block, but none of them is very complimentary.

Niiiiiiiiice. :thhbbb:

Michelina
October 23rd, 2008, 03:07 PM
Niiiiiiiiice. :thhbbb:

Maybe we need to refresh Studs "The Roast Thread"

http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=8250&referrerid=8620

:banana:

barryf
October 23rd, 2008, 04:02 PM
A number of years ago the Championship Committee did a survey of swimmers at National Championships. The attached file list doubles swimmers do not want to see back-to-back.

barryf
October 23rd, 2008, 04:06 PM
Here is the attached file. I neglected to up load the file.

barryf
October 23rd, 2008, 04:30 PM
For some reason the file will not upload. Here is the data:

Meet Format Questionnaire Responses
Event "Doubles" swimmers do not want to see back-to-back.
Ranked in order of total responses


Rank, Double, Response, Percent of respondents

1, 200 Fly & 400 IM, 26, 11.56%
2, 200 Br & 400 IM, 12, 5.33%
3, 200 Fly & 4/500 Fr, 10, 4.44%
4, 200 Bk & 400 IM, 8, 3.56%
5, 50 Fly & 100 Fr, 8, 3.56%
6, 100 IM & 100 Fr, 7, 3.11%
7, 100 Fly & 100 Fr, 7, 3.11%
8, 100 IM & 50 Fr, 6, 2.67%
9, 200 Fly & 200 IM, 6, 2.67%
10, 200 Br & 200 IM, 6, 2.67%
11, 200 Fr & 200 Fly, 5, 2.22%
12, 100 Fr &200 Fly, 5, 2.22%
13, 50 Fr & 100 Fly, 5, 2.22%
14, 100 Br &100 Fly, 5, 2.22%

There were about 100 additional responses that were less popular (or more popular, depending on your frame of reference).




[/FONT]

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2008, 04:36 PM
Great, the sprint backstrokes are not even on that list. Nor are fly-back doubles listed. Perhaps that's why I'm always getting screwed on the order of events and the 50 back is always dead last at Nats. Nice.

No matter, I feel no need to attend Nats or any other meet that is inhospitable to my kind. :mooning: I guess Jeff Commings' prediction that, as the importance of the SDK increases, the fly-back combo will become increasingly more common is just flat out wrong for masters.

some_girl
October 23rd, 2008, 05:08 PM
Great, the sprint backstrokes are not even on that list. Nor are fly-back doubles listed. Perhaps that's why I'm always getting screwed on the order of events and the 50 back is always dead last at Nats. Nice.

No matter, I feel no need to attend Nats or any other meet that is inhospitable to my kind. :mooning: I guess Jeff Commings' prediction that, as the importance of the SDK increases, the fly-back combo will become increasingly more common is just flat out wrong for masters.

Clearly we need to get rid of the IMers.

Jeff Commings
October 26th, 2008, 06:59 PM
Yes, even Jeff (Short Course) Commings is going to be a part of this meet!

Just because I have never been to a long course meters nationals (worlds aside) does not mean I favor short course swimming. I would prefer only one turn in the 100 breast as opposed to three. The 200 IM LCM is much more preferable to the 200 IM SCY or SCM.

knelson
October 26th, 2008, 08:34 PM
Back-to-back swims are doable at Nationals because you've got enough time between events. I definitely wouldn't want to do back-to-back-to-back, though. I really think the best thing to do is stay flexible with your event choices. If one event doesn't fit well, swim a different one.

tjrpatt
November 2nd, 2008, 03:17 PM
Check out the minutes of Session 1 for the Championship Committee at:
http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/champ-2008-9-25-1.pdf

The Tentative Schedule of Events that was passed out at the meeting is attached.

It would be nice if they didn't have the 800 and 1500 on the same day at every USMS Nationals. If I go and no one from my team goes, Saturday is an off day for me. Obviously, I will have to go to the pool for some swimming.

david.margrave
November 4th, 2008, 01:24 PM
If I go again, I'm doing the 800 next time. I would have been out of there in the early afternoon instead of 11 PM!


It would be nice if they didn't have the 800 and 1500 on the same day at every USMS Nationals. If I go and no one from my team goes, Saturday is an off day for me. Obviously, I will have to go to the pool for some swimming.

pwolf66
November 4th, 2008, 01:39 PM
If I go again, I'm doing the 800 next time. I would have been out of there in the early afternoon instead of 11 PM!


Well, if they continue to have both races on the same day then should flip the order occasionally. Not that this issue affects me in any way. Except for trying to get there in time to :cheerleader: for my buds.

imspoiled
November 4th, 2008, 01:52 PM
Well, if they continue to have both races on the same day then should flip the order occasionally. Not that this issue affects me in any way. Except for trying to get there in time to :cheerleader: for my buds.


They do. The 800 was first in Portland. They also switch them from first day to last day.

Michelina
November 5th, 2008, 12:35 PM
:bliss:Countdown to LCM Nationals... Nine months and counting.... :bliss:

mjgold
November 5th, 2008, 11:23 PM
I'm totally going to this. I'm hoping I can get in a LCM meet beforehand so I can get a feel for it, but I think I'm going to enjoy LCM the most.

FlyQueen
November 6th, 2008, 05:06 PM
LCM is the best ... I totally heart it! ;)

mojo flyer
November 13th, 2008, 09:44 AM
Information has been posted regarding the 2009 LCM Nationals in Indianapolis. A flyer with host hotels and event order is provided on www.indyswimfit.com to help you plan your trip. Group rates will expire on February 1st, 2009 so please plan your trip soon.
Entry will be posted as it becomes available.

Michelina
November 13th, 2008, 11:38 AM
Information has been posted regarding the 2009 LCM Nationals in Indianapolis. A flyer with host hotels and event order is provided on www.indyswimfit.com (http://www.indyswimfit.com) to help you plan your trip. Group rates will expire on February 1st, 2009 so please plan your trip soon.
Entry will be posted as it becomes available.

Just to clarify... is this flyer good for all swimmers or just swimmers on Indy Swim Fit? :confused: I only ask as this information is not tagged with the 2009 National information on the USMS page. I would hate to book a room under a code that is for Indy Swim Fit swimmers. Thanks!

Jim.... maybe you could confirm???

mojo flyer
November 13th, 2008, 03:31 PM
This is for all swimmers.
I will see about posting this in the proper places.
Thanks

CreamPuff
November 15th, 2008, 11:57 AM
I wish I could somehow like 4 days meets. No comprendo. I don't do well when I have too much time on my hands. . .

pwolf66
November 18th, 2008, 03:37 PM
CP,

It's all about focus and scheduling. Get to the pool in time to warmup, swim your events, then get out. Repeat as necessary.

CreamPuff
November 18th, 2008, 07:13 PM
CP,

It's all about focus and scheduling. Get to the pool in time to warmup, swim your events, then get out. Repeat as necessary.

You are right. I did that in Savannah. It's just a LOT of getting in and out and warming up and waiting. How do you go about having fun during all that?

The Fortress
November 18th, 2008, 10:23 PM
You are right. I did that in Savannah. It's just a LOT of getting in and out and warming up and waiting. How do you go about having fun during all that?

You sit with friends, cheer for your friends and meet forumites!

Four days is long though, I agree. Especially if you're not swimming on relay day. I lose conditioning just thinking of a four day meet.

I MAY reconsider going to this meet, especially since I may now have a conflict with the TYR SCM meet in Indy in October, which I'd rather go to. Will be forced to pass on the 100 fly if I go due to BS order of events. We'll see.

Donna
November 19th, 2008, 09:25 AM
I always have fun meeting people, socializing, seeing friends that I only see at Nat's and going out for great food.

As for conditioning I just use the warmup pool most of the time and avoid the main pool except for the first day. That is why I love when they have distance on the first day, that makes Wednesday a great day to get used to the pool.

Allen Stark
November 21st, 2008, 10:46 AM
You are right. I did that in Savannah. It's just a LOT of getting in and out and warming up and waiting. How do you go about having fun during all that?

i thought you of all people would think the competition was fun:banana::bliss:.
Most of my life involves juggling swimming around everything else.At a big meet I can just focus on swimming fast and arrange everything around that,instead of arranging swimming around everything else(and the seeing friends I only see at big meets is nice too.)

mattson
November 21st, 2008, 12:19 PM
Most of my life involves juggling swimming around everything else.At a big meet I can just focus on swimming fast and arrange everything around that,instead of arranging swimming around everything else(and the seeing friends I only see at big meets is nice too.)

Hallelujah! :angel:

CreamPuff
November 21st, 2008, 01:55 PM
i thought you of all people would think the competition was fun:banana::bliss:.
Most of my life involves juggling swimming around everything else.At a big meet I can just focus on swimming fast and arrange everything around that,instead of arranging swimming around everything else(and the seeing friends I only see at big meets is nice too.)

So true! :) However, with many of my masters meets being seeded mixed regardless of age and gender (this always is the case in the distance events - and I must say the men are TOUGH) AND swimming with the kiddies all the time (they are scary fast), I'm getting spoiled with all this competition. I feel like it's "Race for your life Charlie Brown" but on a continual basis. I'm not complaining though. I like it!

Chris Stevenson
November 21st, 2008, 03:43 PM
Nationals can be addicting, you'll like it.

Though I do wish they would seed based on time, not age groups. Trash-talking Jeff Commings about a potential 100 back smackdown loses something since we can't swim head-to-head.

orca1946
December 6th, 2008, 03:36 PM
I went in 98, had OK times BUT then life hit me like a truck!! 2 hip replacments & now I'm slower, but still hold my own at local meets & was High point in my age group at state. I will look at Q times when they are listed!! YES it is a great pool!

Doug Adamavich
December 22nd, 2008, 12:37 PM
Logistical question regarding 2009 LCM Nationals. Does anybody know if the meet hotels have a shuttle service to the airport? As I recall, the airport is a fair drive from downtown. If the hotels have shuttles, that would make a lot of out of towner's stay easier.

Anybody know off the top of your head?

CreamPuff
December 26th, 2008, 09:18 PM
So is it 800 OR 1500? I see why people are sprinters now.

CreamPuff
December 26th, 2008, 09:26 PM
So a final few observations. . .

Anyone complaining about the order of events. . .
anyone doing the 400 FR followed by the 200 fly? Not bad for me as I usually need an event to warm up with . . .

And is it me or is this a 5 DAY meet?! Maybe if I had OT cuts. . .:)
Holy mother of G%$. Have me crank out 9K practices with Eric Shanteau next to me. But a 5 day meet. . .
I guess a few select were born Paul Smith. The rest of us. . . noodlers.

pwolf66
December 26th, 2008, 09:51 PM
So a final few observations. . .

Anyone complaining about the order of events. . .
anyone doing the 400 FR followed by the 200 fly? Not bad for me as I usually need an event to warm up with . . .

And is it me or is this a 5 DAY meet?! Maybe if I had OT cuts. . .:)
Holy mother of G%$. Have me crank out 9K practices with Eric Shanteau next to me. But a 5 day meet. . .
I guess a few select were born Paul Smith. The rest of us. . . noodlers.

Oh, don't go there about event order. Sunday is a sprinters nightmare.

CreamPuff
December 27th, 2008, 03:34 PM
Oh, don't go there about event order. Sunday is a sprinters nightmare.

Do you mean the
50 FR
100 Fly
50 BK

Not too bad

The Fortress
December 27th, 2008, 06:55 PM
So a final few observations. . .

Anyone complaining about the order of events. . .
anyone doing the 400 FR followed by the 200 fly? Not bad for me as I usually need an event to warm up with . . .

And is it me or is this a 5 DAY meet?! Maybe if I had OT cuts. . .:)
Holy mother of G%$. Have me crank out 9K practices with Eric Shanteau next to me. But a 5 day meet. . .
I guess a few select were born Paul Smith. The rest of us. . . noodlers.

How could you have missed my rant about Sunday? lol I've even got Wolf Girl on board with my Sunday rant. 3 back to back sprint events the very last day of a meet is ridiculous.

5 days is rather long, especially if you're not swimming relays on Saturday. It's hard enough getting away for a 2 day meet.

pwolf66
December 27th, 2008, 07:14 PM
Do you mean the
50 FR
100 Fly
50 BK

Not too bad


Huh? At Nats? No, it's not 'not too bad' When this problem could have been EASILY been solved by moving either of the 50s to right after the 400 Free? There is a 30 min warmup after the 400 so anyone wanting to do the 400 and which ever 50 got moved should have plenty of rest. And it's going to be the rare person who will enter a 50 Free/Back AND the 200 Breast so that should not be a problem. PLus the Sunday 400 is the Men's 400 so the women would not even have a possible 400/50 double issue.

CreamPuff
December 28th, 2008, 01:06 PM
I don't blame you guys for not going. 5 days of swim meet and I turn into a pumpkin!

tjrpatt
December 28th, 2008, 10:52 PM
Just saw the order of events. The men's 400free and 200 breast are back to back. But, I should be ok. I am loving how the 400 IM and 200 fly are the first events on their respective days. I know one guy that did the 1500 and 800 back to back one year so that could be an option. Plus, I could still get the 800 split from my 1500 if I am too worn to swim fast on the 800. Then again, by Monday, who knows if I will have anything left. It would be a good challenge to do this double torture events. I really hope that everything works out that I can go. It looks like a good time and if not alot of Philly people go, I get the day off on Saturday!!!

pwb
December 29th, 2008, 11:53 PM
Logistical question regarding 2009 LCM Nationals. Does anybody know if the meet hotels have a shuttle service to the airport? As I recall, the airport is a fair drive from downtown. If the hotels have shuttles, that would make a lot of out of towner's stay easier.

Anybody know off the top of your head?

I don't know if they have shuttles, but the Indy airport is close to downtown (~20 minutes). Plus, traffic is generally not bad there.

JimRude
January 13th, 2009, 01:32 PM
FWIW, I called yesterday to book my hotel room for the meet. Coming from the west coast, a morning flight arrives at about 8:00p, so I thought it would be wise to arrive a day before the meet (i.e. late on the 4th, with the meet beginning on the 6th).

Turns out that both meet hotels within walking distance of the pool (a) are nearly full, and (b) only offer the lower group rate beginning the night of the 6th.

Mel
January 14th, 2009, 05:03 PM
The hotels within walking distance of the pool (University Place and Marriott Courtyard at Capitol) are almost completely booked for the USMS LC Nationals at the IU Natatorium...I have been able to add some additional rooms at the discounted rate....Room Blocks will be released February 2nd and the discounted rate will not be available...My suggestion is to book the rooms prior to February to guarantee the discounted rate....The present rate is $149 and will increase to $189-$209...

Ahelee Sue Osborn
January 14th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Just saw the order of events. The men's 400free and 200 breast are back to back. But, I should be ok. I am loving how the 400 IM and 200 fly are the first events on their respective days. I know one guy that did the 1500 and 800 back to back one year so that could be an option. Plus, I could still get the 800 split from my 1500 if I am too worn to swim fast on the 800. Then again, by Monday, who knows if I will have anything left. It would be a good challenge to do this double torture events. I really hope that everything works out that I can go. It looks like a good time and if not alot of Philly people go, I get the day off on Saturday!!!

OMG TJRPATT!

Go for it!
400 Free and 200 Breast?

We have guys on our team who look at last years results to see where they should swim just to score points.
400 Free - 200 Breast sounds like one of those strategies!

Ha Ha!
YOU - I have to watch... don't want anyone stealing points from my NOVAs.

Stevepowell
January 15th, 2009, 10:38 AM
Re; Hotels, you might want to try Priceline.

Chris Stevenson
January 15th, 2009, 11:26 AM
OMG TJRPATT!

Go for it!
400 Free and 200 Breast?

Tom is an animal. You should check out the workouts on his blog.

tjrpatt
January 16th, 2009, 12:06 PM
OMG TJRPATT!

Go for it!
400 Free and 200 Breast?

We have guys on our team who look at last years results to see where they should swim just to score points.
400 Free - 200 Breast sounds like one of those strategies!

Ha Ha!
YOU - I have to watch... don't want anyone stealing points from my NOVAs.

Well, if I go, I hope to see you there. I am thinking of these events(400 free, 200 breast) because the earlier I can get done and rest for the crazy 1500, 800 combo the next day, the better I will be.


Tom is an animal. You should check out the workouts on his blog.

Thanks for the plug!

Arcane Tempest
February 4th, 2009, 11:43 AM
I would personally prefer to see the 800 and 1500 separated, but if I must, I'll swim them back to back...

tjrpatt
March 14th, 2009, 09:45 PM
Question?
With qualifying times, are we allowed to use converted SCY or SCM times? I think that I saw somewhere yes, but I want to be 100%. On the online entry, I heard that some of your times come up automatically, does this include times from all pool lengths? just wondering.

Donna
March 15th, 2009, 08:14 AM
You can use converted times for nationals. I have done it several times usually because there are not many meets in my area for long course.

matysekj
March 15th, 2009, 11:22 AM
Question?
With qualifying times, are we allowed to use converted SCY or SCM times? I think that I saw somewhere yes, but I want to be 100%. On the online entry, I heard that some of your times come up automatically, does this include times from all pool lengths? just wondering.

Conversion of your entry times from some other course is up to the swimmer. Yes, you can convert your times, but how you do that is up to you. Conversion calculators found elsewhere on the web can be wildly inaccurate for individual swimmers, especially with the wide variety in experience and pool configuration access that we find with Masters swimmers. Therefore, we don't endorse any one conversion method and leave it up to the individual.

The entry times you can select with our online entry system are all of your times found in our meet results database from the past two years for the same course as the meet. Since we don't endorse any one conversion method, we do not accept entry times from another pool length and do the conversion for you. You are not required to use the entry time suggestions from your past performance - you can type in another time instead based on a conversion from another course, adjustments due to a fantastic or off season for you, or the phase of the moon. Be aware however that rule 104.5.5(11) allows the meet director to adjust your entry time if it is not in line with your recently recorded times:


"If a swimmer enters a deck-seeded event with a time significantly slower than his/her recently recorded time, the meet director may, after notifying the swimmer, change the seeded time to a realistic time."So if you enter the 1500 in 45:00.00 in an attempt to try to get seeded in one of the first heats when you've done a 16:00.00 time in the past year or so, you may not be successful.