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Doug Adamavich
September 2nd, 2008, 03:06 PM
Right now there is a lot of talk about bids for Nationals and proposed rules changes on where Nationals can be held.

Why not discuss good places to have Nationals in the future?

For fun, what pool would you suggest as a great place for Nationals? This may help prime the pump with more pools that can/will bid on future events.

I will start things off with my submission, University of Minnesota for LCM.

Why?

I am from MN and have swum in it many times during college and in Masters. It is a great facility and is fast. Plus I have family in the Twin Cities and know my way around.

It is indoors and as anybody from the Midwest knows, the weather can get unpredictable in August.

They did a great job in 1999 for LCM, very well-run meet.

An open water swim could be run at Lake Hariett or one of the other metro lakes.

Airport is a hub for NWA (soon to be Delta) and is accessable from any major metro area.

Location is in Central US, meaning flights from anywhere in the US won't take all day.

Pool is on the U of M campus with lots of places to eat, hotels, and parking.

There have been many meets run at this facility since it opened and I think that the hosts would do an excellent job. I don't know why they have not submitted a bid but would love to vote for it if they ever did.

Just my opinion, go ahead and share yours.

Anthony Thompson
September 2nd, 2008, 03:47 PM
I think the Championship Committee has a list of the "desired" locations (the best pools in USA) for our USMS National Championship. The USMS Championship Committee then annually mail bid packets to them, and hopes at least a few return them.

For any facility that has not hosted, I think USMS Championship Committee should assign a mentor to faciliate more bids and to support efforts by LMSC to get these facilities to bid.

I'm sure Univ MN has not bid recently since they may not have someone willing to be the meet director and organize a USMS Nationals. Have a great location is only the first part of hosting nationals, you need a dedicated local organzing committee with some resources to even consider bidding.

We have a great facility within our LMSC (Missouri Valley has Univ Missoui-Columbia with a new 8-lane LCM Plus diving pool complex), but getting the facility and LMSC to combine toward a bid has been a challenge.

Anthony Thompson
Missouri Valley LMSC
swimtotoswim@msn.com

Doug Adamavich
September 2nd, 2008, 04:09 PM
I think the Championship Committee has a list of the "desired" locations (the best pools in USA) for our USMS National Championship. The USMS Championship Committee then annually mail bid packets to them, and hopes at least a few return them.

For any facility that has not hosted, I think USMS Championship Committee should assign a mentor to faciliate more bids and to support efforts by LMSC to get these facilities to bid.

The approach that USMS should use in the future is a more active one. Hope is a town in Arkansas, it is not a strategy or plan. The "hope" route is inferior to the "take charge" route along with active engagement of all parties. Mailing a bid packet out is a waste of resources if there is nobody on the receiving end that will own the bid.

The word I get is that the USMS process is needlessly difficult, hence teams/pools don't bid. This happens even when there is a successful event at a venue.

My point is that USMS should look at a way of actively engaging facilities. The idea of having a mentor is a great one, but the overall mindset should be on taking the initiative and actively seeking out locations. Having only one or two bids for a given National Championship Meet is a sign that something is broken. We should have places beating down the door to host our events.

Doug Adamavich
September 2nd, 2008, 04:14 PM
We have a great facility within our LMSC (Missouri Valley has Univ Missoui-Columbia with a new 8-lane LCM Plus diving pool complex), but getting the facility and LMSC to combine toward a bid has been a challenge.

Anthony Thompson
Missouri Valley LMSC
swimtotoswim@msn.com

By the way, that would be a great place to have a meet. It would be in the central US and indoors I presume.

Has your LMSC formed a committee to work on getting together with UM-Columbia to make a bid? How about getting advice from people like Mark Gill, Mel Goldstein, and others on how to do this? I think there should be some degree of interest on the part of USMS to help LMSCs overcome obstacles that they face when bidding on Nationals.

I wish you good luck and hope to see a bid for an LCM meet at UM-Columbia in the future.

knelson
September 2nd, 2008, 04:58 PM
How about Irvine? I know USA Swimming has held Nationals there.

Looking at the list of where past Nationals have been it struck me as a little odd that the last time they've been held in L.A. County was 1990. It seems like there are a number of facilities that could host Nationals there.

And, yes, I know Irvine is in Orange County. Two separate thoughts here :) In any event, it seems like there are lots of facilities in Southern Cal that could host Nationals.

Doug Adamavich
September 2nd, 2008, 05:05 PM
How about Irvine? I know USA Swimming has held Nationals there.

Looking at the list of where past Nationals have been it struck me as a little odd that the last time they've been held in L.A. County was 1990. It seems like there are a number of facilities that could host Nationals there.

Do you think Coach Mike Collins and the people at NOVA would submit a bid for Nationals? I think that bid would get a lot of support, at least west of the Mississippi...

Good suggestion, any other merits of this facility that need to be mentioned?

pwolf66
September 2nd, 2008, 05:27 PM
Would love to see an SCY Nats hosted in the DC area. The only site that I know that even comes close to being able to handle that would be UMD's beautiful natatorium. 50m indoor woth moveable bulkheads. But spectator and warmup/down space are issues. Not to mention even GETTING that facility. George Mason's facility is about the same in terms of amount of water availble but isn't quite as large in terms of deck space or other areas.

BP, want to talk about that sometime? I would LOVE to be involved in trying to put a bid together. Wanna grab a beer or three and talk it over?

knelson
September 2nd, 2008, 05:49 PM
Do you think Coach Mike Collins and the people at NOVA would submit a bid for Nationals?

I have no idea, but at least we know there's a strong masters presence in that area. Also no one can complain that LA is difficult to get to.

Doug Adamavich
September 2nd, 2008, 06:05 PM
I have no idea, but at least we know there's a strong masters presence in that area. Also no one can complain that LA is difficult to get to.

NOVA (Irvine) is among the host of strong teams in the LA area. In 2006 Mission Viejo (also in Orange County) submitted a bid for LCM Nationals in 2008. They lost out to Portland but will probably bid again in the future. I also heard a rumor that Santa Clarita (across the moutains from Burbank) may make a bid too.

There are also two venues in Arizona that are contemplating bids in the future for SCY Nationals...

Bids from the Western US probably won't be an issue, there are at least a few venues willing and able to host Nationals (Portland, Federal Way, Mission Viejo, and Fresno/Clovis amongst others). The key will be getting non-Florida venues to make bids on the East Coast.

LindsayNB
September 2nd, 2008, 06:11 PM
We should have places beating down the door to host our events.

Out of curiosity, my understanding is that it is a heck of a lot of work by a heck of a lot of people, mostly volunteers, to put on a nationals; outside of altruism what is the motivation to be beating down anyone's door to sign up for that amount of work?

Doug Adamavich
September 2nd, 2008, 06:26 PM
Out of curiosity, my understanding is that it is a heck of a lot of work by a heck of a lot of people, mostly volunteers, to put on a nationals; outside of altruism what is the motivation to be beating down anyone's door to sign up for that amount of work?

For the LMSC, there is increased membership.

For the venue there is publicity.

For the host there is a lot of fun (and work) associated with being a part of an event of this caliber.

When SCY Nationals were in Tempe in 2003, Sun Devil Masters gave ASU a very big "Thank$" for having the meet at Mona Plummer. This has had a positive affect in SDM's dealings with the University.

Mark Gill can provide more details but it was a win-win situation for the LMSC, the University, and the host team (SDM).

knelson
September 2nd, 2008, 06:55 PM
The key will be getting non-Florida venues to make bids on the East Coast.

Isn't there a decent facility on Long Island? I haven't been there, but recall they hosted Div I NCAAs a couple years ago.

There are also quite a few newer facilities in the eastern U.S., but not exactly on the coast, that would seem to be strong candidates such as Tennessee, Ohio State and Purdue.

BillS
September 2nd, 2008, 07:25 PM
How much do the high-quality temporary competition pools (e.g. Long Beach; Omaha Trials) cost to set up and run for a week? How do the temporary venues deal with the warm-up/cool-down pool issues?

In a long-ago thread, someone (Michael Heather, I think) initiated discussion about whether USMS should own a pool. The answer seemed to be generally no. But I wonder how much a temporary pool would cost USMS to own or rent? And, being apparently generally filled with wonder today, I wonder whether it might make it easier to find suitable Nationals locations if we only needed a decent warm-up/cool down pool, locker/shower rooms, and space to set up a really, really big back yard pool (and bleachers, and hospitality, and deck space and on and on and on)?

"USMS Nationals, coming soon to a parking lot near you!"

talne621
September 2nd, 2008, 07:31 PM
Nassau County Aquatic Center is the pool in Long Island, NY. I have swam there before. It is a really good pool, and it would be a good site for nationals.

some_girl
September 2nd, 2008, 07:40 PM
Isn't there a decent facility on Long Island? I haven't been there, but recall they hosted Div I NCAAs a couple years ago.


Like most of the other pools out here it is just a plain old 50m. Not enough space for 2 25-yard courses and warmup/warmdown.

Donna
September 2nd, 2008, 08:23 PM
Isn't there some place in the New England region? I grew up in Connecticut and would love to go back and visit some time.

thewookiee
September 2nd, 2008, 09:37 PM
Nassau County Aquatic Center is the pool in Long Island, NY. I have swam there before. It is a really good pool, and it would be a good site for nationals.

This is nice pool. 10 lanes- 50 meters long with 2 bulkheads for 2-25 yard courses and a separate diving well....very nice.

nyswimmer
September 2nd, 2008, 10:28 PM
Isn't there a decent facility on Long Island? I haven't been there, but recall they hosted Div I NCAAs a couple years ago.

That's the Nassau County Aquatics Center. It's a great facilty. We have several meets there every year, but I'm not sure if it's big enough for Nationals We had Zones there a few years ago and it was a strain. The locker rooms are relatively small and there's not much space for a warm-up pool.

ALM
September 2nd, 2008, 11:34 PM
I will start things off with my submission, University of Minnesota for LCM.
They did a great job in 1999 for LCM, very well-run meet.
An open water swim could be run at Lake Hariett or one of the other metro lakes.

The best part of 1999 Nationals was the open water swim after the meet. Right after the 1500 ended, about 60 of us hopped into a bus and rode to Stockholm, Wisconsin. We then swam two miles across the Mississippi River to Lake City, Minnesota.

ALM
September 2nd, 2008, 11:48 PM
By the way, that would be a great place to have a meet (University of Missouri, Columbia, MO). It would be in the central US and indoors I presume.

It's a great pool - almost a carbon copy of the Minnesota pool. And it is indoors (a necessity in the Midwest in either May [occasional tornadoes] or August [heat]). But judging from the comments I've read on these forums about Clovis, a lot of people probably wouldn't like the location. There is no direct airport access to Columbia, MO. Columbia is halfway between St. Louis and Kansas City. You'd have to fly into one of those cities and then drive 120 miles to Columbia. If people are complaining about getting to Fresno, they'd really be complaining about Columbia.

Anna Lea

swimshark
September 3rd, 2008, 07:06 AM
Would love to see an SCY Nats hosted in the DC area. The only site that I know that even comes close to being able to handle that would be UMD's beautiful natatorium. 50m indoor woth moveable bulkheads. But spectator and warmup/down space are issues. Not to mention even GETTING that facility. George Mason's facility is about the same in terms of amount of water availble but isn't quite as large in terms of deck space or other areas.

BP, want to talk about that sometime? I would LOVE to be involved in trying to put a bid together. Wanna grab a beer or three and talk it over?

Paul, rumor is that the Freedom Ctr is going to be knocking out the deep end wall and adding a 24 yard pool. If they do this, they can host Nationals. I would love to see that. The masters coach there was co-meet director at KY Nationals several years ago.

Doug Adamavich
September 3rd, 2008, 10:17 AM
It sounds like there are pools out there but the catch is warm-up/warm-down areas, locker rooms, and seating. Would it make sense to rent/own one of those temporary pools (the semi-rigid above ground ones) for this purpose? Also, for changing areas how about renting some large tents and setting them up for this purpose?

Just ideas I am throwing out there. I reckon there are solutions to the problems some facilities face in hosting Nationals. But like other obstacles they can be overcome with some creativity and effort.

I like the ideas being posted, this should help get the creative juices flowing when it comes to future Nationals.

knelson
September 3rd, 2008, 10:51 AM
Would it make sense to rent/own one of those temporary pools (the semi-rigid above ground ones) for this purpose?

I doubt it. If warmup space is an issue, what are the chances there would actually be a place available to put up a temporary pool? I'd say very slim.

Doug Adamavich
September 3rd, 2008, 01:18 PM
So far, based upon what I have read, here are some facilities that may be worth studying.

Nassau County Aquatics Center (Long Island, NY)
Irvine (Irvine, CA)
University of Maryland (College Park, MD)
University of Missouri (Columbia, MO)

Let's call these guys the "Contenders" for now. I am sure there are more but this represents a good start.

The Fortress
September 3rd, 2008, 03:38 PM
Paul, rumor is that the Freedom Ctr is going to be knocking out the deep end wall and adding a 25 yard pool. If they do this, they can host Nationals. I would love to see that. The masters coach there was co-meet director at KY Nationals several years ago.

Awesome!

I saw that Portland only had 6 warm down lanes. If that's the criteria, then U of Md should suffice. It has very ample spectator seating and huge locker rooms. I guess availability is the issue. But perhaps the college/USA teams could swim early in the am like they did in Austin?

pwolf66
September 3rd, 2008, 03:43 PM
Actually, having been to both, I think that UMD would be a slightly better choice from a over all facility point of view. Not sure what other renovations were planned but the deck space at UMD is at least 40% more than at Freedome center and the locker room space is much better. But hey, it's all conjecture at this point but I hope that PV does try to put together a bid.

I plan on talking at the next board meeting about trying to see if it would be possible.

Doug Adamavich
September 3rd, 2008, 04:07 PM
Paul, rumor is that the Freedom Ctr is going to be knocking out the deep end wall and adding a 24 yard pool. If they do this, they can host Nationals. I would love to see that. The masters coach there was co-meet director at KY Nationals several years ago.

For those of us in the Intermountain West, where is the Freedom Center and what type of facility is it?

*Indoor/Outdoor
*50M x 25Y or 50M x 25M
*Pool owner
*etc.

If it is in the Baltimore/DC area, you could either fly into BWI or National from almost anywhere in the US. From here it sounds like an interesting venue for a Nationals...

Chris Stevenson
September 3rd, 2008, 04:11 PM
I doubt it. If warmup space is an issue, what are the chances there would actually be a place available to put up a temporary pool? I'd say very slim.

They did exactly this when SCY nationals were held at Chapel Hill in the early 90s. There is an indoor 50m pool that was divided into separate 25y courses for men/women, and an outdoor temp pool was used for warmup/warmdown.

pwolf66
September 3rd, 2008, 04:38 PM
For those of us in the Intermountain West, where is the Freedom Center and what type of facility is it?

*Indoor/Outdoor
*50M x 25Y or 50M x 25M
*Pool owner
*etc.

If it is in the Baltimore/DC area, you could either fly into BWI or National from almost anywhere in the US. From here it sounds like an interesting venue for a Nationals...

It's in Manassas, Va. Very convient to Dulles and about 30 minutes from Reagan National.

http://www.freedom-center.com/aqua_learn_to_swim.shtm

It's a very nice 50m indoor facility with movable bulkheads that can be set up 50m, 25m or 25y. Deck space is a little tight. Locker rooms are OK. It could be a venue for LCM Nats.

Paul

Doug Adamavich
September 3rd, 2008, 04:53 PM
It's in Manassas, Va. Very convient to Dulles and about 30 minutes from Reagan National.

http://www.freedom-center.com/aqua_learn_to_swim.shtm

It's a very nice 50m indoor facility with movable bulkheads that can be set up 50m, 25m or 25y. Deck space is a little tight. Locker rooms are OK. It could be a venue for LCM Nats.

Paul

WOW, that looks like a nice facility! Is there a second pool anywhere for warmups?

That would be a nice place for Nationals...

pwolf66
September 3rd, 2008, 05:20 PM
WOW, that looks like a nice facility! Is there a second pool anywhere for warmups?

That would be a nice place for Nationals...

No, that is what Swimshark mentioned. They are looking into adding a smaller pool.

I look at the DC area facilities and the three that I come back to seem to just capable of hosting LCM Nats but fall short of SCY Nats. The problem is one capacity. I have noticed that LCM Nats tend to run in the 1100-1200 range and SCY are in the 1800-2000 range. The three facilities might be able to handle the lower number but I do not think they have a prayer of handling the higher number. Austin was tough and that was a much larger facility than the three here. Warmups were a nightmare, even with 10 lanes in the diving well.

Blackbeard's Peg
September 4th, 2008, 01:39 PM
I mentioned the Rockville (http://www.rockvillemd.gov/swimcenter) pool on another thread. How about Germantown Masters host LCM nationals there?

Doug Adamavich
September 4th, 2008, 02:08 PM
I mentioned the Rockville (http://www.rockvillemd.gov/swimcenter) pool on another thread. How about Germantown Masters host LCM nationals there?

The Rockville facility is intriguing, four pools in one area... If that pool got selected, warmups should not be a problem.

Doug Adamavich
September 4th, 2008, 02:10 PM
How about Germantown Masters host LCM nationals there?

Hmmmm, that would be interesting too. Whereabouts is that facility in relation to Philly?

imspoiled
September 4th, 2008, 02:33 PM
Hmmmm, that would be interesting too. Whereabouts is that facility in relation to Philly?

Sorry Doug. No good pools in the Philly area. When I win the Power Ball lottery, I vow to build a state aof the art swimming facility in the Philly area and put in a bid for Nationals. Until then, it'll be lots of travel.

Jeff was referring to Germantown, Maryland.

Doug Adamavich
September 4th, 2008, 02:43 PM
Sorry Doug. No good pools in the Philly area. When I win the Power Ball lottery, I vow to build a state aof the art swimming facility in the Philly area and put in a bid for Nationals. Until then, it'll be lots of travel.

Jeff was referring to Germantown, Maryland.

Maybe if Eagles fans would stop booing Santa Claus, he might give the good boys and girls of Philly a state of the art aquatics center ;-)

...and I have no idea where Germantown, MD is. Baltimore area?

Hey, maybe Michael Phelps can help a pool in the Baltimore area get a Masters Nationals.

It could happen...

pwolf66
September 4th, 2008, 04:31 PM
I mentioned the Rockville (http://www.rockvillemd.gov/swimcenter) pool on another thread. How about Germantown Masters host LCM nationals there?
Yeah but you also mentioned the major issue with regards to holding it in August. Thunderstorms.

It's on the list tho but who wants to go to a location where you have a good chance of 90/90 days? 90 degrees and 90% humidity?

I will be bringing up the 'what's to prevent us from putting a Nationals bid together' question at Mason next month.

Doug Adamavich
September 4th, 2008, 04:46 PM
Yeah but you also mentioned the major issue with regards to holding it in August. Thunderstorms.

It's on the list tho but who wants to go to a location where you have a good chance of 90/90 days? 90 degrees and 90% humidity?

I will be bringing up the 'what's to prevent us from putting a Nationals bid together' question at Mason next month.

True that. One time when I was in Age Group (circa 1985), our team traveled to Omaha, NE from the Twin Cities. The pool was outside and was a HUGE meet.

Then on Saturday afternoon, a tornado struck not far from the pool. Everything got blown around, the pool was evacuated and our shelter was ripped to shreds...

The meet started up again about 45 minutes later and we got our tent back up with some field repairs and electrical tape.

If you are in an area that has thunderstorms in August, indoors is where you wanna be for sure.

knelson
September 4th, 2008, 05:22 PM
They did exactly this when SCY nationals were held at Chapel Hill in the early 90s. There is an indoor 50m pool that was divided into separate 25y courses for men/women, and an outdoor temp pool was used for warmup/warmdown.

Interesting. Where did they put the temp pool? Parking lot? Grassy area?

I guess I could see a 25 yard temporary pool. I was thinking of a 50 meter for some reason.

mbmg3282
September 4th, 2008, 07:29 PM
The temporary pool at the 1992 nationals in North Carolina was a one of a kind type. Hill Carrow was the meet director and would know more about how they did it. If I remember correctly, it was build with cement forms and a vinyl pool liner.

The modern temporary pools like the one used in Long Beach are a completely different story and cost prohibitive. You use them one time in a temporary setting and then break the welds between the plates, take it apart and install it permanently at a later date. Cost for this type of installation runs in the low millions.

Inflatable pools like the one used at Rutgers stand a better chance of working. the only concern there is if they are durable enough to allow us to use them for warm up at multiple events.

michaelmoore
September 6th, 2008, 01:16 AM
How much do the high-quality temporary competition pools (e.g. Long Beach; Omaha Trials) cost to set up and run for a week? How do the temporary venues deal with the warm-up/cool-down pool issues?
[/I]

For Worlds, we thought about a temporary pool for warmup and warmdown. The two temporary 25M pools for FINA Worlds at Indianapolis were about $750,000 apiece. That was worth a quick smile and we moved on. (For nationals that would be about $375 each with 2,000 competitors)

I thought I heard that the construction part of the pool was about $150,000 but that was four years ago and the memory is not was it was.

Great ideas about places to hold the championships.

michael

Doug Adamavich
September 8th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Neophyte question regarding Nationals bids.

Let's say you have two great bidders for a National meet, like in 2006 when both Mission Viejo and Mt. Hood Community College bid for LCM. Both were excellent bidders, I thought it was a no-loose choice no matter which bid was accepted.

Does the loosing bidder get any consideration for future bids? Granted Mission Viejo hosted LCM in 2005 if memory serves but do they (or should they?) be at the front of the queue next time around?

I ask as an outsider who is not on the Championship Committee. We don't get many bids for meets (ex. Austin was the only bidder for 2008 SCY) so why not fill the queue with worthy submissions from previous bidders? Would that not make the process easier on all involved and offer more choices when considering Nationals?

BTW, I hope Portland puts in a bid in for LCM Nationals again in the future. This time, make sure you don't include triple digit temperatures ;-)

Blackbeard's Peg
September 10th, 2008, 10:04 AM
I have an idea. Rather than have the masses suggest where they would like to have a national meet, why don't we ask USMS meet directors where they would like to have a meet. After all, they put in lots of long hours making sure their communities can have quality meets, which they themselves can't usually rest and/or taper for.

Take VP/Member Services Mark Gill, for example - He's gotten TYR on board with a series of Masters meets, plus he spends his entire nationals' at the announcer stand so we know what is going on.
Or how about Michael Moore, who put together an International event that spanned 2 weeks, 5 different aquatic sports and 5000+ competitiors for swimming alone.

I'm sure they'd like to attend a high-caliber meet for which they need do nothing but train hard.

justforfun
September 11th, 2008, 10:47 AM
There have been a few references to Worlds at Stanford in 2006. In terms of pool and deck space, that facility can't be beat for either LCM or SCY. Imagine having SCY nationals there...you could have 3 or 4 25Y courses going at once and still plenty of pool space for warm up and cool down. No 8 or 9 PM finishes!

Barb Protzman
September 12th, 2008, 06:00 PM
To the person who said maybe Phelps can get someone to host in Baltimore: I was the meet director for the 2000 LC Nationals that were held in the Baltimore area at the University of Maryland Baltimore County outdoor pool. It was the largest LC National meet ever with 1380 entrants. I now live in Florida.

I did attend the IGLA meet at University of Maryland (main campus in College Park) in June, and it is a great facility that would be capable of handling either nationals. They have hosted World Cup events. I did talk to some of the Potomac Valley LMSC people while I was there, and the first problem is finding a group to run the meet and a sufficient volunteer base.

While there are many great facilities around the country, the problem is finding someone to run the meet, and for it to be cost effective. The rental fees at some facilities are prohibitive and available dates are limited.

I am on the Championship Committee, and we do agree that we need to change the way we solicit bids, as for the past several years we have been lucky to get one bid for each meet. If you have suggestions and are not attending the upcoming convention, feel free to send them to me.

Barb Protzman, Florida Gold Coast Registrar

JimRude
September 15th, 2008, 01:13 PM
How about something along on the lines of splitting the country into 4 regions, and rotating the meet(s) between them:

West Coast (included AZ, etc)
Midwest (includes TX, etc)
Southeast
Northeast

michaelmoore
September 15th, 2008, 01:22 PM
What states would you include in NorthEast?

Why do you break up the east into NorthEast and South East, yet the west with 40 % of the swimmers only have one area?


michael

BillS
September 15th, 2008, 01:33 PM
An interesting idea from our ED's Vision and Action Plan:


c) Championships
Some may be aware that USA Swimming has been "selling" and is getting buy in from the NCAA to combine
NCAA Swimming Championships into an annual swimming festival. The NCAA swimming festival would
most likely be six or seven days. On the drawing board is the inaugural NCAA swimming festival to kick off as
early as 2011. The date though will be early Spring and is still being determined, along with other business
points.
While some USMS host clubs could argue the "fundraising" benefits of hosting the SC Championships, it would
absolutely be in USMS global best long term interest to be part of the annual event by hosting our
championships at the same location before the event. Consider the benefits:
 With the number of collegiate swimming programs being discontinued, demonstrates and shows USMS
support of collegiate swimming
 Brings USMS closer (first hand that is) to collegiate swimmers a market we need to tap and integrate
 Brings USMS close to collegiate coaches & club coaches
 Would raise the enthusiasm level & buzz on our championships
 The NCAA has a television contract so we ride that wave
 The amount of media that covers the NCAA championships would have an overflow effect on USMS
championships (something we could never buy or have gotten on our own)
 Offers an opportunity for our membership to stay after and support/watch/cheer for the NCAA's
Regardless of how we feel, the annual swimming festival concept is happening (much like the Trials moving
from a natatorium to the Qwest Center). I have made known to Chuck Wielgus that USMS has an interest in
becoming part of the NCAA Swimming Festival for which Chuck believes would be a homerun. I have
likewise informed the Championship Committee that this is an avenue we'd like to pursue. I anticipate when
Chuck returns from the Olympics, we will pick up the dialogue and get a better understanding of the
opportunity as a whole at which time we will be able to better update the details.

JimRude
September 15th, 2008, 02:03 PM
What states would you include in NorthEast?

Why do you break up the east into NorthEast and South East, yet the west with 40 % of the swimmers only have one area?


michael

Just to keep it simple.

West coast could have Seattle metro, Portland metro, Silicon Valley, and LA region host (not to mention unmentionables like Fresno, Sac'to, etc). Also, Denver, Phoenix, Vegas, etc.

Midwest could have Austin, Dallas, Chicago, Minneapolis, St. Louis, etc.

Southeast could have FL, GA, AL, NC, TN.

Northeast could have MD, PA, OH, etc.

Just my two cents for keeping it simple, avoiding politics, and streamlining bidding, etc. YMMV.

Doug Adamavich
September 15th, 2008, 03:25 PM
From what I read, the Swimming Festival would be during Short Course (Yards?) season. If USMS were to work with the NCAA on being a part of this proposed Festival, would that mean Long Course Nationals would be the only pool Championship up for bid?

Interesting idea for sure, one which should be considered.

Chris Stevenson
September 15th, 2008, 05:35 PM
How about something along on the lines of splitting the country into 4 regions, and rotating the meet(s) between them:

West Coast (included AZ, etc)
Midwest (includes TX, etc)
Southeast
Northeast

They already do this in prioritizing bids for OW national championships, though they use 3 regions. See page 152 in Appendix D in the Rule Book. Bids from the area "targeted" in a given year get priority.

I don't see any reason the same areas couldn't be used for pool championships.

But it doesn't mean much if you only get one bid for a given championship.

Doug Adamavich
September 15th, 2008, 05:47 PM
They already do this in prioritizing bids for OW national championships, though they use 3 regions. See page 152 in Appendix D in the Rule Book. Bids from the area "targeted" in a given year get priority.

I don't see any reason the same areas couldn't be used for pool championships.

But it doesn't mean much if you only get one bid for a given championship.

Well, first we need to get more than one bid for a given National meet...

JimRude
September 15th, 2008, 07:23 PM
Well, first we need to get more than one bid for a given National meet...

At the risk of starting an excessively political flame war (see discussions related to marketing, USMS plan, board, etc etc) I think that USMS needs to make it very rewarding for a club/LMSC to host a Nationals.

This can be done by, among others, charging participants more; charging sponsors more (who will pay only if they're sure they'll benefit, too); ancillary sales (t-shirts, videos, snack bars, etc); producing an increase in local membership, and so on.

Just my $0.02 - YMMV.

michaelmoore
September 15th, 2008, 07:40 PM
At the risk of starting an excessively political flame war (see discussions related to marketing, USMS plan, board, etc etc) I think that USMS needs to make it very rewarding for a club/LMSC to host a Nationals.

This can be done by, among others, charging participants more; charging sponsors more (who will pay only if they're sure they'll benefit, too); ancillary sales (t-shirts, videos, snack bars, etc); producing an increase in local membership, and so on.

Just my $0.02 - YMMV.

Jim:

How rewarding do you want it to be?

With the exception of the National sponsors, the host gets to work out how they will deal with local sponsors, snack bars and gold medal sponsors.

If the meet is held in an LMSC they most likely will experience a spike in membership.

It is not unheard of for a national championship host to make a significant 5 figure net profit.

michael

JimRude
September 15th, 2008, 07:50 PM
Jim:

How rewarding do you want it to be?

With the exception of the National sponsors, the host gets to work out how they will deal with local sponsors, snack bars and gold medal sponsors.

If the meet is held in an LMSC they most likely will experience a spike in membership.

It is not unheard of for a national championship host to make a significant 5 figure net profit.

michael

Michael -

If hosting a successful Nationals can lead to a significant five figure net income, then the wrong people are organizing bids - or perhaps USMS can assist with preparing bids. I can't imagine that many LMSCs would turn down the opportunity to earn that type of money for a meet (albeit a massive one to organize). Sign me up for the committee that soliicits/evaluates, etc bids...

chowmi
September 15th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Parking, Parking, Parking.

All I really care about is the Parking. As long as I can park CLOSE and there is always AVAILABILITY, I don't care how much it costs (up to say, $25.00 per day for in/out priveleges)!!

And i'd even be a "parking sponsor" to park RIGHT UP FRONT WITH A RESERVED SPACE if that option ever became available.

The pool itself - not so particular - only because any location with the facilities to accomodate that many masters is usually a pretty fast pool anyway.

Michael Heather
September 16th, 2008, 10:01 PM
Michael -

If hosting a successful Nationals can lead to a significant five figure net income, then the wrong people are organizing bids - or perhaps USMS can assist with preparing bids. I can't imagine that many LMSCs would turn down the opportunity to earn that type of money for a meet (albeit a massive one to organize). Sign me up for the committee that soliicits/evaluates, etc bids...

LMSCs do not generally run or bid for nationals, it is clubs that host them. That being said, Oregon ran the last LCM nationals but I am not sure if was the LMSC or the club (which are one in the same, another topic of interest) that hosted the meet.

The USMS championship committee is ready to help the meet hosts and prospective bidders wade through the process so there should be no hindrance in that area. I think it is mostly facilities that do not want to put out the work to host the meet. There are meetings and meetings and more meetings starting 2 years before the meet, capped by 5 days of frenzied action of the meet followed by 2 days of cleanup and more days of report writing. The volunteer base can dry up quickly if there isn't something sexy to do, like hand out awards to cute guys, or hand out towels in the women's locker room.

Some clubs structure the financial reports to make it look as if there were no money made at all, charging high rents for the pool time and timing system rentals, when they control all of that and more in the facility. So, yes, 5 figures net is not at all out of the question, and that doesn't even include the decimal point! In 1983, the Stanford SCY nationals reported about 70k.

Brian Stack
September 17th, 2008, 01:44 PM
<snip>In 1983, the Stanford SCY nationals reported about 70k.
'83 was at Ft. Lauderdale, Stanford was '87.
Obfuscation eschewed!

Doug Adamavich
September 17th, 2008, 03:10 PM
LMSCs do not generally run or bid for nationals, it is clubs that host them. That being said, Oregon ran the last LCM nationals but I am not sure if was the LMSC or the club (which are one in the same, another topic of interest) that hosted the meet.

Did I read something where USMS would run Nationals and essentially "rent" the pool from the host club and/or LMSC? This may be worth considering since there appear to be several (many?) good locations out there for Nationals that don't bid for one. Then again, how would the revenues and costs be split?

JimRude
September 17th, 2008, 03:43 PM
Did I read something where USMS would run Nationals and essentially "rent" the pool from the host club and/or LMSC? This may be worth considering since there appear to be several (many?) good locations out there for Nationals that don't bid for one. Then again, how would the revenues and costs be split?

Seems to me that if USMS rents the pool from the host club or LMSC, that's all the income the host/LMSC's gonna get, unless they're smart enough to negotiate a split of the rest...

mbmg3282
September 17th, 2008, 03:51 PM
At this time, I do not believe that USMS is looking to run nationals. In a recent executive committee meeting I put forth the idea that USMS should be much more proactively involved in the hosting of nationals. Currently, we sit back and wait for someone to bid for nationals. What I suggested as that we approach facilities that we would like to swim at, bring more to the table in terms of serve than we currently do and partner with local programs to put on our championship events.

At this time, we have enacted none of these suggestions. Hope that clears up any confusion.

Doug Adamavich
September 17th, 2008, 04:55 PM
At this time, I do not believe that USMS is looking to run nationals. In a recent executive committee meeting I put forth the idea that USMS should be much more proactively involved in the hosting of nationals. Currently, we sit back and wait for someone to bid for nationals. What I suggested as that we approach facilities that we would like to swim at, bring more to the table in terms of serve than we currently do and partner with local programs to put on our championship events.

I think that is a good approach to take and would yield more potential bids than in the recent past. It would be great to have several locations for Nationals "in the can" for consideration. This would be a welcomed change for sure.

Taking the initiative = leadership in action

Blackbeard's Peg
November 17th, 2008, 03:07 PM
FYI,
there is now a "BIDDING RESOURCES" link on the top of the USMS Nationals page (http://www.usms.org/comp/nationals.php)

swimmore
November 18th, 2008, 02:03 PM
Since the first post asked for ideas to host in the future? Would anyone be interested in Pensacola, Florida. We can do open water too! We would like to bid if anyone will show up to the meet.

imspoiled
November 18th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Since the first post asked for ideas to host in the future? Would anyone be interested in Pensacola, Florida. We can do open water too! We would like to bid if anyone will show up to the meet.

If you bid it...they will come.
Why not put in a bid. Can't be any harder to get to than Clovis!

pwolf66
November 18th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Since the first post asked for ideas to host in the future? Would anyone be interested in Pensacola, Florida. We can do open water too! We would like to bid if anyone will show up to the meet.

Where in P'Cola? Is there a facility that can handle ~1300 swimmers LCM or about ~1800 swimmers SCY? I don't recall one there but it has been awhile.

Doug Adamavich
December 1st, 2008, 12:28 AM
Since the first post asked for ideas to host in the future? Would anyone be interested in Pensacola, Florida. We can do open water too! We would like to bid if anyone will show up to the meet.

LCM or SCY?

Heck, you might as well make a bid, you could be the only one...:bolt:

The Gulf Coast would not be a bad place to hold a swim meet as long as you have a good facility. Plus, airline service to P-cola would be important for some. I say go for it and see if you can win it.

pwb
December 1st, 2008, 12:45 AM
Since the first post asked for ideas to host in the future? Would anyone be interested in Pensacola, Florida. We can do open water too! We would like to bid if anyone will show up to the meet.

If there was open water linked with pool nationals, absolutely. It's been awhile (20+ years), but I remember the water and beaches being wonderful there. Just aim for SCY ... it's too hot & humid in Florida in the summer to do anything much more than sip pretty drinks on a covered deck with fans on high.