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gull
September 22nd, 2008, 08:23 AM
Ande's Blog is the longest running and arguably the most popular thread on the forum and should be returned to the General Swimming-Related Discussions. It is more than just a blog in that it has been highly interactive, generating a lot of discussion and addressing a wide range of swimming-related topics.

matysekj
September 22nd, 2008, 09:26 AM
It hasn't gone anywhere, and it isn't going anywhere. It is currently and will always be available where it has always been at http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=4298. The only thing we've done is to ask that anyone wanting to maintain a blog here from this point forward should do so in the official blogs section at http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?do=bloglist. His new blog there can be found specifically at http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?u=3156.

Ande, like others who maintained a blog thread in the past, can and should link to his old thread in the title or description of their new blog. That way it's always easy to find those old posts for those who want to do so.

Syd
September 22nd, 2008, 10:23 AM
It is just that Ande spent a vast amount of time detailing his workouts, answering questions and giving advice on that thread that it seems such a pity for it to be closed.

Is it not possible for the entire thread to be moved over to the blog section? It is not the same providing a link to the old thread. We all know the fate of closed threads: they slip slowly off the most recently posted page into oblivion. It is far more convenient to have it all together.

What about changing the name of the thread to Ande's workouts and posting under the workout thread? (Ande suggested this). Just don't want to see a good resource closed down. I know it will still be available but it just doesn't seem as effective if it is no longer interactive.

ViveBene
September 22nd, 2008, 10:54 AM
I would vote for retitling the thread to "Ande's Workouts" (or maybe "Big, and Fast!" LOL, or "Performance Swimming," or some such) and moving entire thing to Workouts forum. It's substantially more than what normally appears as a blog.

A blog titled as such and left on Swimming-Related forum would forever more bring questions and complaints ("His blog is there; why can't mine be?").

If a goal of moving blogs off the main page and to their own corner is to limit third-party responses, it probably should be all or none. That said, there are probably ways of keeping Ande's thread more forward.

I'm actually more concerned about our Canadian friends who have contributed so much. If non-USMS, will they still enjoy full participation?

VB




What about changing the name of the thread to Ande's workouts and posting under the workout thread? (Ande suggested this). Just don't want to see a good resource closed down. I know it will still be available but it just doesn't seem as effective if it is no longer interactive.

elise526
September 22nd, 2008, 11:06 AM
Please bring it back! It is very inspirational and extremely helpful. I have already referred a number of swimmers to it.

aquageek
September 22nd, 2008, 11:11 AM
While I will admit slogging through all the blogs was tedious, I do think Ande's should be grandfathered in to remain on the main page, if nothing else to enjoy the folly of the roll start.

Paul Smith
September 22nd, 2008, 11:35 AM
Jim & Rob,
Why was this change made...was there a complaint of some type or someone for some reason just felt the change needed to be made to fit a particular "format".

I respect/appreciate "rules" but at times if holding to said rules actually works against the greater good maybe they need to be reexamined? This change does nothing to advance the interest and advancement of USMS in my opinion.

knelson
September 22nd, 2008, 11:44 AM
I'm not exactly sure what all the consternation is about. The new version of the forum software has a blogging feature, so blogs that were in the regular forum area have been moved to the blogs area. It's not like content has been eliminated, just moved to a different place. Quite a few people have already started blogging. It's just a matter of training ourselves to go to blog area rather than the General Swimming-Related Disussions section.

The Fortress
September 22nd, 2008, 11:46 AM
I would vote for retitling the thread to "Ande's Workouts" (or maybe "Big, and Fast!" LOL, or "Performance Swimming," or some such) and moving entire thing to Workouts forum. It's substantially more than what normally appears as a blog.

A blog titled as such and left on Swimming-Related forum would forever more bring questions and complaints ("His blog is there; why can't mine be?").

If a goal of moving blogs off the main page and to their own corner is to limit third-party responses, it probably should be all or none. That said, there are probably ways of keeping Ande's thread more forward.

I'm actually more concerned about our Canadian friends who have contributed so much. If non-USMS, will they still enjoy full participation?

VB

I agree with VB's thoughts. Is there a reason why it can't go in the workout section? That's more accessible and could more easily provide the back and forth between readers. JMiller's Fun & Fast seems to get good viewership. Ande has dedicated a lot of time and effort to the blog (not saying the others bloggers won't and I have both read and commented on them), but his is unique and used as a resource by many.

matysekj
September 22nd, 2008, 12:14 PM
Kirk has it right - the change was made because it's a new feature of fhe software we use. I have also heard a number of comments from people about the proliferation of blog threads on the forums. For those who aren't interested in blogs, yes they have complained that they have to slog through them.

Ande's thread in particular is not just a list of workouts. It's a blog. I do not understand why he simply refuses to use the blog tool to continue this, and put a link to the old thread in the description of that blog that shows up at the top of the blog (see quicksilver's blog (http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?u=4609) to view where this description appears). The old thread will not disappear at all if this is done - it will be linked front-and-center on his blog, and those who are interested in his blog can read it and can rate it very highly so that it will show up at the top of the list of "best blogs".

Given that the new capability is here, why not use it? There are some advantages to using a blog tool instead of a forum thread. Blog tools allow for comments to be left on specific blog entries. Viewing that entry includes viewing the comments in context, relative to that entry. Forum threads don't work that way. Ande has very often had to quote lots of posts in his old blog thread in order to put his answers in context. That's not necessary in the blogs - you comment on a particular entry and your comments are kept with that entry.

Bottom line is that if you want to post a workout, feel free to do so in the workouts forum. If you want to blog and talk about other things happening in your life in addition to maybe posting a workout, use the blogs.

pwolf66
September 22nd, 2008, 12:16 PM
I'm not exactly sure what all the consternation is about. The new version of the forum software has a blogging feature, so blogs that were in the regular forum area have been moved to the blogs area. It's not like content has been eliminated, just moved to a different place. Quite a few people have already started blogging. It's just a matter of training ourselves to go to blog area rather than the General Swimming-Related Disussions section.

It's a matter of ease of access. Currently, it requires a bit more effort to reach and read thru entries in the Blogs section. This may or may not change as further enhancements occur. but we can only deal with what is.

knelson
September 22nd, 2008, 12:27 PM
Currently, it requires a bit more effort to reach and read thru entries in the Blogs section.

True. About one additional mouse click!

aquageek
September 22nd, 2008, 12:33 PM
True. About one additional mouse click!

Can't you just bookmark the blog and have it come up even quicker?

The Fortress
September 22nd, 2008, 12:46 PM
I hate the random blog entry feature.

anita
September 22nd, 2008, 12:48 PM
I have never used Ande's Blog <gasp!> because I come here for workouts, and slogging through all of the posts and details is tedious for ME. I use the Workouts section more than anything and would love to see Ande's workouts separated in that area, and the conversation aspect saved for the General Swimming-Related Discussions.
I know many of you have been here for years and enjoy the discussion in Ande's threads, but for ME, it would be easier to have it separated and NOT in blog form.

thewookiee
September 22nd, 2008, 12:56 PM
Maybe I am becoming cranky like Geek, but I don't see the point of change the forum. Facebook recently changed their format and it is awful. This kinda reminds me of the same. How many people are actually going to use all the new stuff?

I say bring back Ande's thread to the main page. It is fun to hear about his day, being late to practice, etc. I don't even think about a blog link 99% of the time and probably won't take the time to go to a specific page for blogs anyway.

quicksilver
September 22nd, 2008, 12:58 PM
Jim's latest updates make sense in that many people keep blogs, but there never seemed to be a designated place to maintain them until recently.

Ande's may be the exception in that many people have become accustomed reading it over the years, and enjoy participating in what has developed into a very active part of the forum. When it gets rated number one...it will stay at the top of the list every time the blog section is opened. No searching required.

You can subscribe to Ande's blog, and it appears right away.

Midas
September 22nd, 2008, 01:19 PM
I voted no because I think everybody should be treated equally. Having said that, this forum is not so active that allowing people to post their "blogs" as message threads knocked other more "relevant" threads off the first page. Sometimes when I come here, the only new/active threads were those blogs. Just because the software has the capability, I don't think that should mean we have to use it. For more active boards, I can see insisting on it but not for this one.

Again, I don't think Ande should be treated any differently from anybody else so unless this restriction is lifted for everyone, I don't think it should be lifted for anyone.

The Fortress
September 22nd, 2008, 01:43 PM
I have never used Ande's Blog <gasp!> because I come here for workouts, and slogging through all of the posts and details is tedious for ME. I use the Workouts section more than anything and would love to see Ande's workouts separated in that area, and the conversation aspect saved for the General Swimming-Related Discussions.
I know many of you have been here for years and enjoy the discussion in Ande's threads, but for ME, it would be easier to have it separated and NOT in blog form.

Must be an individual thing. I never read the workout sections, except for the "Fun & Fast" thread. Which, btw, appears to contain a lot of advice and encouragement and reader back and forth much like Ande's former blog.

In general, if I am looking for workout ideas, I'll consult the blog of someone whose training is relevant to mine. I also like following how people are doing in their training and/or meets. Guess I'm a swim geek.

anita
September 22nd, 2008, 02:52 PM
Guess I'm a swim geek.

I guess everyone's a geek at something. I'm a brain geek.

The Fortress
September 22nd, 2008, 02:59 PM
I guess everyone's a geek at something. I'm a brain geek.

They're not mutually exclusive.

anita
September 22nd, 2008, 04:22 PM
Facebook recently changed their format and it is awful. .

Understatement.

blainesapprentice
September 22nd, 2008, 06:57 PM
When the feature first opened I would have voted to bring it back and get rid of the blog feature all together. But, now having given it a little time to get use to it...I don't think that is at all necessary. I like coming here and seeing the other topics and not seeing 4 different blogs in the general discussion sections.

I view the blogs as often as I did when they were right here, even now that they are off in their own separate place and its nice to see them all together so I can quickly scroll through my favorites.

I don't think any one blog should specifically be brought back because that is not really fair to everyone else...and it really isn't necessary. The blog feature just takes getting use to...as does change.

ViveBene
September 22nd, 2008, 08:16 PM
Ande's blog is gone??

Here:
http://andesswimmingblog.blogspot.com/

ddunbar
September 22nd, 2008, 11:01 PM
I generally try to catch up on the forums during lunch and unfortunately Blogspot is a provider that is blocked by my employer. Ditto the Youtube videos so I have to remember to go back an check the threads with video in the evening.

gull
September 23rd, 2008, 08:15 AM
I don't think any one blog should specifically be brought back because that is not really fair to everyone else...


Again, I don't think Ande should be treated any differently from anybody else so unless this restriction is lifted for everyone, I don't think it should be lifted for anyone.


Couldn't agree more. Rules are rules. If we make an exception for one...it is a slippery slope indeed.

ensignada
September 23rd, 2008, 09:08 AM
I have no idea what the fuss is about. Assuming Ande starts blogging in the blog section, no one has to miss anything.

lefty
September 23rd, 2008, 11:38 AM
Why remove any of the blogs from the General Section? Did someone with a MS in Library Science determine that the flow of information is clogged due to the presence of blogs? Or did someone just decide, this isnt a space for blogs, and move it. Hardly tragic either way, though traffic is the only way to get advertising dollars, and it seems quite silly to move a popular part of the forums out.

The Fortress
September 23rd, 2008, 11:58 AM
Why remove any of the blogs from the General Section? Did someone with a MS in Library Science determine that the flow of information is clogged due to the presence of blogs? Or did someone just decide, this isnt a space for blogs, and move it. Hardly tragic either way, though traffic is the only way to get advertising dollars, and it seems quite silly to move a popular part of the forums out.

It apparently annoys some to even see the word blog in a thread title.

Gull :rofl:

It will be interesting to see, over time, if the number of views and comments equal the postings when the blogs were in the GS. Wait, does the blog section even track views?

gull
September 23rd, 2008, 12:20 PM
It apparently annoys some to even see the word blog in a thread title.

Perhaps he could rename it "Ande's Swimming Thread."

swimmieAvsFan
September 23rd, 2008, 12:54 PM
no harm meant to jmiller's fun, and fast thread, but if his thread (that really isn't much different than ande's) is allowed to remain in the workout section, why couldn't ande's be moved there???

if it's simply a question of the thread title, can't ande's be moved over to the workout section and renamed???

just a thought while trying to procrastinate a little more this afternoon...
:notworking:

knelson
September 23rd, 2008, 01:43 PM
Hardly tragic either way, though traffic is the only way to get advertising dollars, and it seems quite silly to move a popular part of the forums out.

I've never seen an ad in these forums so this is a moot point.

geochuck
September 23rd, 2008, 02:03 PM
Too many blogs in the discussion panels, they should be in blog form. There are several that should be moved. It almost feels like we have Anne Landers, or Dear Abby type columns going on.

rtodd
September 23rd, 2008, 09:04 PM
Why did Ande move it off the blog page?

splash
September 23rd, 2008, 10:02 PM
Full support for administrator.
Ande is a great resource on this forum, however, blogs should have their own section.
Thank you Jim.

Splash

gull
September 24th, 2008, 08:42 AM
Full support for administrator.
Ande is a great resource on this forum, however, blogs should have their own section.
Thank you Jim.

Nice sucking up.

splash
September 24th, 2008, 01:53 PM
Nice sucking up.

sorry to hear that, however, most of us (as seen from the results of the poll) would rather discuss swimming, than personalities...

The Fortress
September 24th, 2008, 03:33 PM
sorry to hear that, however, most of us (as seen from the results of the poll) would rather discuss swimming, than personalities...

Give me a break! Ande's blog was very SR. What is not SR are the recent plethora of People Magazine threads relating to, for example, Lochte's sexuality or Phelps's supposed dalliances with strippers or his other girlfriends. If those are tolerated as SR, Ande's thread certainly should be.

And would you excise all personality from the forum? Plenty of the SR threads have banter and trash talk and other things that add color. Just because something is SR does not mean it has to be deadly dull or devoid of personality(ies).

The poll seems flawed in any event. First, it would have been more accurate to include a choice of moving the blog to the workout thread. I believe that is one thing Ande suggested as an option. As SwimmieAvsFan, Vive and I previously noted, the blog is not that much different than JMiller's Fast & Fun thread and could be modified somewhat. Many of the reader comments asked questions about the workouts and/or how he proposed to train for meets. Second, it appears that a lot of inactive forum members may have voted. Not sure who they are ... And, if people are opposed to the blog, they don't have to click on it. Viewership for the blog was extremely high, which is at odds with the poll results.

Don't agree with George's "Dear Abbey" comment either, and his own posts are littered with NSR swimming commentary or other random detail.

quicksilver
September 24th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Ande's blog should have been relocated. Not closed.
The workout section was and still is the ideal alternative to move it, as comments and dialogue can be posted as normal.

The new blog features allow for comments, but not exactly in the same way as forum banter.
Maybe Jim will still reconsider. Ande's blog had a life of it's own. It should be resurrected.

Brian Stack
September 24th, 2008, 03:57 PM
Ande's blog should have been relocated. Not closed.
The workout section was and still is the ideal alternative to move it, as comments and dialogue can be posted as normal.

The new blog features allow for comments, but not exactly in the same way as forum banter.
Maybe Jim will still reconsider. Ande's blog had a life of it's own. It should be resurrected.
Was it closed or did Ande move it to another host? He posted a link to his Blogspot site a couple of days ago. That was a day or so after his Blog was moved to the Blog zone.
Why couldn't he start a similar thread on the Workouts Forum? Just don't call it a Blog.

geochuck
September 24th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Fort I thought all of my comments are swimming related. I don't know how so many just disappear.

quicksilver
September 24th, 2008, 04:26 PM
Was it closed or did Ande move it to another host? He posted a link to his Blogspot site a couple of days ago. That was a day or so after his Blog was moved to the Blog zone.
Why couldn't he start a similar thread on the Workouts Forum? Just don't call it a Blog.

It was closed permanently. As well as the others which had started cropping up.

Granted the new blog section makes a whole lot of sense, but his could have been kept alive and bumped over to the workout zone.

The Fortress
September 24th, 2008, 04:39 PM
Granted the new blog section makes a whole lot of sense, but his could have been kept alive and bumped over to the workout zone.

It does make sense, especially with 11 blogs.

But, as you say, Ande's blog had a life of it's own. Since it was closed, he might feel like it's a 3 year labor of love down the drain. Sure, he's got the link, but it's not quite the same as having your body of work together. A lot of effort went into that thread.

Vive's previous suggestion of "Performance Swimming" is a good one. "Ande's Workouts" is fine too. Perhaps he could forgo the bloggy aspects like how much he weighs? lol

lefty
September 24th, 2008, 09:54 PM
But, as you say, Ande's blog had a life of it's own. Since it was closed, he might feel like it's a 3 year labor of love down the drain.


another reason that the blog should stay. If it was that important, shouldn't it have been moved (litterally) years ago.

Kirk, TYR and endless-pools advertise on this site. Most people type www.USMS.com and click to the forums (I don't know this to be specifically true with this forum, but true in general about web-forums).

Oh: and I read more about swimming on Ande's blog than on any other thread in the forum.

aztimm
September 25th, 2008, 03:46 PM
I believe when Ande joined the online forums and started his blog, there were many questions as to why he was posting it here, wouldn't it be better in a separate blog area, etc. He responded with something like he'd have it here until he was told he couldn't (I don't remember the exact phrase).

I usually skimmed Ande's blog when I had the chance. But I really don't see what all the big fuss is about. If every one of us had a blog about our swimming, the, "General Swimming-Related Discussions," forum would have gotten way out of hand. Someone made the decision to move all blogs, and it looks like most of the other bloggers have moved to the new blog area. It seems there's even a few new swimmers blogging since the change took place.

My choice has been to put my own blog elsewhere, and I don't mind if people from this forum access it or not. If you want to access Ande's blog (or someone else's), simply find out where it is (maybe private message them), and follow it at the new location.

gull
September 25th, 2008, 04:07 PM
If every one of us had a blog about our swimming, the, "General Swimming-Related Discussions," forum would have gotten way out of hand.

a) Only a very small minority of posters have a blog;

b) I didn't realize the forum was in danger of getting "way out of hand";

c) Ande's blog was unique in its longevity and consistent ability to stimulate discussion and the exchange of ideas about swimming.

The Fortress
September 25th, 2008, 04:14 PM
a) Only a very small minority of posters have a blog;

b) I didn't realize the forum was in danger of getting "way out of hand";

c) Ande's blog was unique in its longevity and consistent ability to stimulate discussion and the exchange of ideas about swimming.

68 blog entries, 23 comments (6 were mine). I think the blog area is great for tracking one's own workouts. Not so much for discussion of workouts, tapering, swim strategy, meet strategy, event focus, etc. (In fact, it looks like posts and views are down in general on the DS since Ande's blog was closed.)

gull
September 25th, 2008, 04:31 PM
From 2005 when Ande started his blog:

i thought folks might be interested in reading about the kind of masters workouts we do in Austin with our masters coach / former olympian Whitney Hedgepeth.

Plus since I train in the Texas swim center and out at Circle C I occasionally talk with Eddie Reese, Randy Reese, Jill Sterkel, and great athletes / Olympians who train and visit there like Brendan Hansen, Ian Crocker, Aaron Peirsol, Nate Dusing,Neil Walker, and Josh Davis. The forum moderators might be like judges in a Law and Order trial who allow a particular line of questioning to go on. Or this thread to exist.

Plus there's some really amazing up and coming college swimmers at UT and high school swimmers training with Randy Reese.

If people aren't interested they could choose not to read this thread or post in it. Though I suspect, some might enjoy vicariously observing my journey, experiences, and visiting Austin through this thread and for now I'm willing to write it.

aztimm
September 25th, 2008, 04:39 PM
From 2005 when Ande started his blog:

[/I]

How many times has that been edited since the blog's inception?

Since this thread is non-swimming related, perhaps it should be moved to the NSR forum?

gull
September 25th, 2008, 05:05 PM
How many times has that been edited since the blog's inception?

Last edited by ande; March 24th, 2005 at 11:43 AM.


Since this thread is non-swimming related, perhaps it should be moved to the NSR forum?

It doesn't take up much space, and you may ignore it if you wish.

abc
September 26th, 2008, 10:20 AM
I apologize for the length of this post, and most people won’t read it anyway, but I wanted to express my opinion. I first discovered this forum through Google search results from Ande’s blog. I read it all the time, but never responded in the thread (more of a lurker). It is a great resource and the culmination of 3 years of work.

My understanding (and I understand very little by the way) is that the administrators didn’t do a good job of communicating with Ande. It’s funny that the administrators of a crowdsourced forum utilizing web 2.0 features didn’t reach out to its community about the changes. Ande stated:

“I was given no choice, I was ordered.
I was told the thread would be closed and I had to move.
I didn't close the thread.”

Ande was given mandates and never afforded the opportunity for discussion—which is what this forum is all about. The community as a whole didn’t even understand why the changes were being made until this thread arrived. Matysekj stated:

“Given that the new capability is here, why not use it? There are some advantages to using a blog tool instead of a forum thread. Blog tools allow for comments to be left on specific blog entries. Viewing that entry includes viewing the comments in context, relative to that entry. Forum threads don't work that way. Ande has very often had to quote lots of posts in his old blog thread in order to put his answers in context. That's not necessary in the blogs - you comment on a particular entry and your comments are kept with that entry.”

These are good points, and why they weren’t communicated before the changes were made to everyone is somewhat confusing. I also don’t mean to sound negative regarding the administrators—it’s not an easy job at times.

One of the most telling points about this whole thing for me occurred when Ande stated;

“I've been posting in it for more than 3 years. I wanted to continue posting my workouts in the thread where they started to keep the body of work together.”

Ande wants all of his work in one location, not busted apart and linked to. I totally agree with this and can understand his frustration. Did the administrators offer to migrate all of Ande’s old content to the new platform? No. This to me is one of the underlying problems. Sure, it would take a lot of time and maybe some money, but it could have been done.

To me, this is a loss for the forum. Ande is the most accessible person on here. Couldn’t a phone call have been made beforehand? Can’t the administrators take the time to do the migration?

Knelson also downplayed the navigation effort when he stated:
“True. About one additional mouse click!”
In the online world, one additional mouse click can be quite a difference. That’s like saying what’s a couple of extra tenths in a 50. But if we can’t fix the location problem, maybe the administrators would consider a migration.

geochuck
September 26th, 2008, 10:33 AM
I found his blog very interesting and really did not feel it was a blog but good info about swimming even though it veered off swimming sometimes.

gull
September 26th, 2008, 01:34 PM
For those who aren't interested in blogs, yes they have complained that they have to slog through them.

Sorry, Jim, but I am still having some trouble visualizing this whole "slogging" process.

The Fortress
September 26th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Sorry, Jim, but I am still having some trouble visualizing this whole "slogging" process.

You're out of control, Gull.

But me neither. Just don't click on it. I'm successfully avoiding breaststroke threads, 200 freestyle threads and those containing Perez Hilton links at the moment.

gull
September 26th, 2008, 01:52 PM
You're out of control, Gull.


I think it has something to do with my new avatar.

ViveBene
September 26th, 2008, 02:25 PM
I'm successfully avoiding breaststroke threads, 200 freestyle threads and those containing Perez Hilton links at the moment.


The BR folks formed their own treehouse but seem not to know what to do next.

Ande and the Admins are the only people who have a vote, and apparently they voted, so the point of the poll leaves me puzzled. Nevertheless, I think it useful to discuss the more general issue of putting blogs where they are.

:2cents:

geochuck
September 26th, 2008, 03:30 PM
Are we compelled to open every thread, I think not.

If I am not interested in any thread I just ignor it.

If I do not like it, it is a very soon that I do not want to read it.

It is the same thing with TV, I do not like certain programs I do not switch to the chanell.

gull
September 26th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Are we compelled to open every thread, I think not.

Apparently there are some among us with OCD who must in fact open each and every thread. We must be considerate of them.

geochuck
September 26th, 2008, 04:08 PM
Are you sure that it is OCD or is it NP which was first discovered in 1907.

NP is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosey_Parker

ande
September 28th, 2008, 07:05 PM
Dear Friends,

I want to thank everyone who's posted here in support of reopening my blog.
http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4298

On September 15th the forum rolled out new features
http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=12008
who decided on the policy regarding blogs?
"Blogs (members only): Confirmed USMS members may maintain their own blog in the new Blogs section. Existing thread used as blogs will be closed in favor of using the real blog feature. Everyone can read blogs and comment on them, but only USMS members may create them. If you have maintained a blog-type of thread up until now, there's no reason to copy over all of your old blog posts. Just add a link to your old thread in your first blog post. Your old thread will be closed to new posts, but will not be deleted."

in another thread Rtodd asked me:
"Ande, why not put the blog up on the blog page?"

here was my response
http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=154043&postcount=1030

Here's where my new blog is:
http://andesswimmingblog.blogspot.com

I ask that my USMS workout thread be opened and people permitted to post in it.

Ande

quicksilver
September 28th, 2008, 09:41 PM
Ande,

I hope the moderator reads your request and does the right thing. There appears to be a consensus that your thread would fit in just fine under the workout section. In all likelihood Jim may not have realized how many forum members valued your postings.

The new forum features work well in that the new blog section serves its purpose in assigning a location for blogs which starting to cloud the general discussions. But closing it down wasn't necessary. And he should not only respect your request to reopen it, but acknowledge that 3 years of your time has provided a invaluable asset to this on-line community (despite what the poll says).

People who voted against having it in the "General Discussions" may not have understood that the blog section does not work in the same way. The blog section allows for comments, but no on-going dialogue. Therein lies the difference. Your blog initiated dialogue, and more discussions about swimming. It wasn't just a record of day in and day out swim practices.

Jim seems like a reasonable person. Let's hope that he makes an exception. You deserve that consideration.

geochuck
September 28th, 2008, 10:18 PM
Do you think because Ande called it a blog it was removed.

It did not read like a blog.

Syd
September 29th, 2008, 09:39 AM
Ande,

I hope the moderator reads your request and does the right thing. There appears to be a consensus that your thread would fit in just fine under the workout section. In all likelihood Jim may not have realized how many forum members valued your postings.

A pity this third option wasn't added to the poll. If it had I am sure there would be different results. I really hope this can be done. It seems a small thing to ask. I can't see all the other bloggers then clambering for the same privilege. Apart from Paul Wolf's, most of the other blogs are brand new. It is all fine and well to say that from now on all blogs should go to the blog section. For those who are just starting up a blog it shouldn't make much of a difference. But it is different for someone like Ande who spent more than three years archiving his workouts and answering questions related to them. It's like telling an artist to finish his painting on another canvas :shakeshead: . All Ande really wants to do is to keep it all together. If that means changing the name of the thread to Ande's workouts and posting in the workout thread then so be it.

Ande has been really generous giving advice and helping everyone. Doing him this favor is the least we can afford him.

quicksilver
September 29th, 2008, 10:03 AM
Do you think because Ande called it a blog it was removed.




Yes.

And even with the best intentions by the moderator to keep all the blog formations fair and balanced, this was a very clear case of throwing out the baby with the bath water. As said previously, Ande's blog was a part of the forum, not just a personal swimming journal.


And I agree with what Syd suggested. If a new blog appears in the wrong place, it could very easily be redirected to the appropriate location.
Reviving Ande's blog in the workout section doesn't do any harm, or show special privileges.

gull
September 29th, 2008, 10:21 AM
How did the no votes jump up to 72 then drop down to 50? Are the votes being counted in Florida?

matysekj
September 29th, 2008, 10:28 AM
How did the no votes jump up to 72 then drop down to 50? Are the votes being counted in Florida?

I noticed a sudden large increase in voting on one side this morning and checked into it. I found some ballot-stuffing was going on by members with multiple aliases, so I corrected the voting totals to reflect a one vote per individual total. Both sides of this vote had some of these incidents, although one side more than the other. I don't feel it's fair to vote using multiple aliases on what is a very emotional issue to some. If it comes to my attention again I can adjust again in the future, as I've saved the current state of the vote and can easily detect this.

The Fortress
September 29th, 2008, 11:08 AM
jim,

Is there a reason it can't be relocated to the workout section and retitled, especially since Ande has said he would remove the bloggy aspects going forward? It would be a great resource. Tall Paul's new thread would be similar and is already popular ...

Redbird Alum
September 29th, 2008, 02:02 PM
The title of this section is "General Swimming Related Discussions"

I have always thought of Ande's "blog" as just that, an ongoing discussion of swimming that happened to include what they were doing in Texas.

That said, I guess we all have to learn to move on.... however inconvenient we may find it to be.

(Thanks for the ride, Ande!)

gull
September 29th, 2008, 02:11 PM
Perhaps we could see how those who are actually USMS members voted?

matysekj
September 29th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Perhaps we could see how those who are actually USMS members voted?

Well, you have to realize that this information is skewed because it relies only on those who have voluntarily linked their USMS membership to their forums account (through My USMS (http://www.usms.org/myusms/)). Anyway, of those people with linked USMS memberships who have voted here, it's currently 26-10 in favor of the "no, leave it in the blog section" vote.

BTW, in looking at this, I found a few more alias votes that I missed the first time through and have adjusted the vote total accordingly.


Is there a reason it can't be relocated to the workout section and retitled, especially since Ande has said he would remove the bloggy aspects going forward?

We have released new tools that now allow any USMS member to maintain a blog on our site. Together with this release, we are requiring that all blogging take place on our site using the new blog tools. The existing blog threads have been closed after notifying the thread starters, and all have been encouraged to use the new blog tools. Suggestions have been provided for how to maintain the continuity by linking back to the old thread in the blog description. This new capability is available to all USMS members without discrimination, and the closing of old blog threads has also been uniformly applied.

All forum users are allowed to post workouts in the workout section. However, if you want to maintain a blog, please do so in the blogs section.

I've also just come across a tool that is supposed to allow me to migrate a particular thread from the forums over to a blog. I had looked for such a tool in the past, but was under the impression that it didn't exist. From what I can tell, it will do the conversion by copying posts of a certain user in the thread to blog posts and posts by all other users to comments in the blog. I have no idea how well this tool works, but I have just offered to Ande to run this tool on his old thread and thereby maintain all of his blog content from that thread in a new blog. I can't see any reason why this would not be an acceptable solution and I hope he agrees to allow me to run this tool on his old thread and thereby create his new blog.

geochuck
September 29th, 2008, 04:05 PM
May we change our vote. I would prefer all blogs to be in the blog area.

But was Ande's blog really a blog? It did happen to be very informative but left many of us almost feel uncomfortable to comment because it was labeled as a Blog.

anita
September 29th, 2008, 04:39 PM
Well, you have to realize that this information is skewed because it relies only on those who have voluntarily linked their USMS membership to their forums account (through My USMS (http://www.usms.org/myusms/)). .

I just added my USMS information to my account--never saw the need before. Why would only USMS members be counted? There are those who read the boards and participate who have admitted to not being USMS members--why exclude their opinion?

matysekj
September 29th, 2008, 04:49 PM
I just added my USMS information to my account--never saw the need before. Why would only USMS members be counted? There are those who read the boards and participate who have admitted to not being USMS members--why exclude their opinion?

Non-members are not excluded from the vote total at the top of this page. I was merely responding to Gull's question about how the vote breakdown looked when considering only USMS members. I don't really see the relevance either, but looked up the answer anyway.

gull
September 29th, 2008, 05:45 PM
I just added my USMS information to my account--never saw the need before. Why would only USMS members be counted? There are those who read the boards and participate who have admitted to not being USMS members--why exclude their opinion?

No one's opinion has been excluded, but I was under the impression that our dues support this forum (among other services). The 2008 budget for USMS lists $42,015 for "web operations."

anita
September 29th, 2008, 05:57 PM
Non-members are not excluded from the vote total at the top of this page. I was merely responding to Gull's question about how the vote breakdown looked when considering only USMS members. I don't really see the relevance either, but looked up the answer anyway.

My misunderstanding. Thank you for clarifying.

ande
October 2nd, 2008, 11:11 AM
hi jim,

happy birthday

I'm not sure if I want to transition my blog thread over to the blogs using the bulk mover

Would it destroy the original URL and contents or
leave them intact and just move a copy?


My request is to rename my blog and move it over to workouts

What is the process to challenge the policy?

Ande

lately I've been writing my workouts in a PM
I send to myself and a few others
right now I'm transitioning from regular training to
speed strength training but my right shoulder has started to hurt a little



Well, you have to realize that this information is skewed because it relies only on those who have voluntarily linked their USMS membership to their forums account (through My USMS (http://www.usms.org/myusms/)).
Anyway, of those people with linked USMS memberships who have voted here, it's currently 26-10 in favor of the "no, leave it in the blog section" vote.

BTW, in looking at this, I found a few more alias votes that I missed the first time through and have adjusted the vote total accordingly.



We have released new tools that now allow any USMS member to maintain a blog on our site. Together with this release, we are requiring that all blogging take place on our site using the new blog tools. The existing blog threads have been closed after notifying the thread starters, and all have been encouraged to use the new blog tools. Suggestions have been provided for how to maintain the continuity by linking back to the old thread in the blog description. This new capability is available to all USMS members without discrimination, and the closing of old blog threads has also been uniformly applied.

All forum users are allowed to post workouts in the workout section. However, if you want to maintain a blog, please do so in the blogs section.

I've also just come across a tool that is supposed to allow me to migrate a particular thread from the forums over to a blog. I had looked for such a tool in the past, but was under the impression that it didn't exist. From what I can tell, it will do the conversion by copying posts of a certain user in the thread to blog posts and posts by all other users to comments in the blog. I have no idea how well this tool works, but I have just offered to Ande to run this tool on his old thread and thereby maintain all of his blog content from that thread in a new blog. I can't see any reason why this would not be an acceptable solution and I hope he agrees to allow me to run this tool on his old thread and thereby create his new blog.

matysekj
October 2nd, 2008, 11:28 AM
I'm not sure if I want to transition my blog thread over to the blogs using the bulk mover

Would it destroy the original URL and contents or
leave them intact and just move a copy?

I would need to test it on our test forum setup first, but I'm sure I could find a way to leave the existing thread intact even if the default behavior of the tool would destroy it (which I don't think it would anyway).


My request is to rename my blog and move it over to workoutsYes, I understand that's your request, but our policy is that blogs go in the blog area. Your thread is most certainly a blog, and simply renaming it isn't going to change that. It isn't fair to others to treat yours as a special case.


lately I've been writing my workouts in a PM
I send to myself and a few others
right now I'm transitioning from regular training to
speed strength training but my right shoulder has started to hurt a littleI don't understand this at all. You're perfectly willing to use the editor tools provided here to create your entries and send them to a select few via a PM, but you're not willing to use the very same editor tools to post the very same text on a blog here? Why not share the love with everyone?

ande
October 3rd, 2008, 11:51 AM
Dear Friends,

last week I sent a request to usms's 2 robs to reopen Ande's Swimming Blog (http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4298)
they wrote back the next day but sent their emails to the wrong address
so i didn't read their responses till yesterday

They upheld the rules outlined in New Forum Features (http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12008)
Ande's Swimming blog thread remains closed
No moving it to the Work Outs forum and Renaming it
it will not be reopened

thanks again to those who supported reopening it.

I wish y'all the best your training.

Take Care,

Ande

Swimmers can find my workouts from:

March 2005 to Friday September 19th, 2008 at:
http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4298

Saturday Sep 20th, 2008 on at:
http://AndesSwimmingBlog.blogspot.com

ande
November 5th, 2008, 12:03 PM
Dear Friends,

despite being closed for a month and a half
Ande's Swimming Blog is about to pass 200,000 views
http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4298
Somehow it still comes up as the top result when folks google
swimming blog
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=swimming+blog&aq=f&oq=

my new blog is at:
http://andesswimmingblog.blogspot.com

Currently I'm 9 days away from this season's SCM meet in Temp AZ

2 days ago I did my lifetime best in practice
50 y SDK
went 23.5

today I swam my fastest (in years) in practice
50 y free
went 21.5

I want to see how much I can improve my
50 times from last year and this summer
50 fr SCM 24.69 LCM 24.50
50 fl SCM 26.15 LCM 26.03
50 bk SCM 28.30 LCM 28.14

thanks to everyone who followed/s my Blog

Ande

ScarletSwimmer
November 6th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Ande - With all due respect, you need to get over this.

Blackbeard's Peg
November 6th, 2008, 04:06 PM
For all those who voted to move the thread back to the general swimming discussions, how many of you voted for Obama - where your vote was a "Vote for Change?" If you answered in the affirmative, don't be ashamed if you feel a bit hypocritical right now.

I won't lie to you - I am a fan of the status-quo. But new things are good. They expand horizons and open new doors for new opportunities. Think of 15 years ago, how many of you had internet? Of those that did, was it dialup or always-on? Without the internet, we wouldn't have this forum. Without the always-on connections, Fort Wolf and Stud wouldn't be able to post 80 times a day. I could go on...

What most of us outside IT and web development don't always understand is that the status-quo on the Internet is NOT a good thing. Sites need to be constantly upgraded with new features and new software or their users lose interest and move elsewhere (just ask yahoo, altavista, excite, lycos... who lost tons of market share on searches when Google came out), and with them goes sponsors, membership, revenue, etc.

Let's face it, most of us are still going to the blog section to check it out, and I definitely see people continuing to use the new facebook despite the "horrible" new look. Change is a part of life - some of it is good, some is not. I'd encourage everyone to take a Mulligan on their blog/new feature judgement and give it some time to sink in. In the mean time, thanks to Jim for keeping us all up to date.

anita
November 6th, 2008, 04:18 PM
Actually, since this thread was started I have spent some time trolling the blog section--something I never would have done before. I'm not a blog-fan, but I have found some great workouts from people's blogs, and have enjoyed reading about others' experiences.
So in my opinion, the change was/is a very good thing, as it always is. And no, I did not vote for Obama. :thhbbb:

The Fortress
November 6th, 2008, 04:39 PM
For all those who voted to move the thread back to the general swimming discussions, how many of you voted for Obama - where your vote was a "Vote for Change?" If you answered in the affirmative, don't be ashamed if you feel a bit hypocritical right now.

I won't lie to you - I am a fan of the status-quo. But new things are good. They expand horizons and open new doors for new opportunities. Think of 15 years ago, how many of you had internet? Of those that did, was it dialup or always-on? Without the internet, we wouldn't have this forum. Without the always-on connections, Fort Wolf and Stud wouldn't be able to post 80 times a day. I could go on...

What most of us outside IT and web development don't always understand is that the status-quo on the Internet is NOT a good thing. Sites need to be constantly upgraded with new features and new software or their users lose interest and move elsewhere (just ask yahoo, altavista, excite, lycos... who lost tons of market share on searches when Google came out), and with them goes sponsors, membership, revenue, etc.

Let's face it, most of us are still going to the blog section to check it out, and I definitely see people continuing to use the new facebook despite the "horrible" new look. Change is a part of life - some of it is good, some is not. I'd encourage everyone to take a Mulligan on their blog/new feature judgement and give it some time to sink in. In the mean time, thanks to Jim for keeping us all up to date.


Nice Muppet! :rofl:

I thought Ande should just post workouts in the Workout section like Jonathan and Tall Paul. (And, yes, I voted for Obama.) Anyway, I crossed the picket line and started blogging. :D I'm not a fuddy duddy.

ande
November 7th, 2008, 12:24 PM
Dear Scarlett,

the thread achieved a milestone, I just pointed it out and gave folks an update,

I'm not asking for the thread to be reopened

Though I am curious if the poll results would have been different if the response choices were phrased

Should Ande's blog be returned?

Yes, return it to General Swimming-Related Discussions

No, I don't want ande to share his workouts on the USMS forum


Scarlett, I've gotten over it and moved on, I love swimming and I enjoy helping others improve

my recent workouts are blogged at:
http://andesswimmingblog.blogspot.com

Jim offered to move the contents of the old blog thread over to the blog section, I'm inclined to take him up on this offer as long the old thread isn't deleted or destroyed

I sometimes go back to check workouts and training results from previous seasons to compare with results of the latest season. It's helpful.

Wish you the best with your swimming.

Take Care,

Ande



Ande - With all due respect, you need to get over this.

ScarletSwimmer
November 7th, 2008, 04:29 PM
Should Ande's blog be returned?

Yes, return it to General Swimming-Related Discussions

No, I don't want ande to share his workouts on the USMS forum


You haven't seemed to grasp that this isn't about you, it's about the way the forum has been reorganized. You've taken this decision personally and been hurt by it. Others have accepted this framework, I don't understand why you have been so reluctant. All you needed to do was to go with the flow, and you could have remained on usms happily blogging away.

You've always been such a great friend to the forum. I don't understand the "take my toys and go home" attitude. I'm sorry that you feel this way. Our loss, and yours.

gull
November 7th, 2008, 04:41 PM
Personally I don't think the blog format lends itself as well to the open discussion and exchange of ideas that we see in the threads. Ande's Blog was arguably the most popular thread on the forum (200,000 views).

Chris Stevenson
November 7th, 2008, 04:57 PM
Personally I don't think the blog format lends itself as well to the open discussion and exchange of ideas that we see in the threads.

Let me preface this by saying that I enjoyed Ande's blog/thread and my comments aren't about his particular journal.

I think Gull is right about the exchange of ideas, the threads are a little better. But I don't think that is the usual purpose of a blog, really. The workout threads can work for that purpose.

Blogs are closer to public diaries, with some degree of interactivity. I now maintain one and think it less intrusive than a thread. I would never have started a similar thread because I would have felt it too "in your face." But as a blog, any of the few people who are interested can read it, or not; the fact that you have to seek it out is a plus for me.

quicksilver
November 7th, 2008, 07:46 PM
Our loss, and yours.

True.

It was read by many, but then again, it still can be.
A copy and paste from 'Blogger' to the blog section is all it would take.

rtodd
November 7th, 2008, 08:17 PM
I scan the blogs regularly and it would be great if Ande's was migrated over.

JMiller
November 7th, 2008, 09:36 PM
Ande,

You should take the offer, while it's still on the table. Please, I don't want to click a million different places, I like to read all the blogs, and they're all in one place. Now you're ignoring the fans that gave you the high thread count in the first place, think about it. Your Swimming Tips thread will be breaking 100,000+ views soon, even sooner if you revamp your blog. In swimming terms, you're clearly in the lead, but not if you get out of the pool.



Jim offered to move the contents of the old blog thread over to the blog section, I'm inclined to take him up on this offer as long the old thread isn't deleted or destroyed

I sometimes go back to check workouts and training results from previous seasons to compare with results of the latest season. It's helpful.

ande
November 11th, 2008, 11:44 AM
Jim,

a while back you offered to move the contents of my shut down blog over to the blog section

is there a way to do so with out deleting or destroying the existing thread?

Ande

matysekj
November 11th, 2008, 05:33 PM
a while back you offered to move the contents of my shut down blog over to the blog section

is there a way to do so with out deleting or destroying the existing thread?

Yes, my understanding is that the migration tool isn't supposed to alter the original thread.

I did download the tools and tried to play with it a little on our test area. I didn't have any luck with them, but I really didn't spend much time on it. If you're interested, I can try it again some time. I won't do it on the live forum unless I've successfully tried it in our test area and verified that it didn't alter the old thread or do any other harm.

ande
December 1st, 2008, 10:45 AM
Hi Jim,

OK try it out
let me know

Ande


Yes, my understanding is that the migration tool isn't supposed to alter the original thread.

I did download the tools and tried to play with it a little on our test area. I didn't have any luck with them, but I really didn't spend much time on it. If you're interested, I can try it again some time. I won't do it on the live forum unless I've successfully tried it in our test area and verified that it didn't alter the old thread or do any other harm.