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TheGoodSmith
October 2nd, 2008, 01:43 PM
Looks like the number of foreign athletes taking scholarship money away from home grown kids has surged in recent years. 2/3rds are in Division I schools.

I wouldn't dream of accusing lazy coaches who don't recruit well of using "hired guns" from other countries to win championships. I'm sure they are only accepting foreign athletes for the altruistic good of helping to diversify the student body..... :-)


Influx of foreigners presents new challenges for NCAA

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2008-10-01-foreign-influx_N.htm

scyfreestyler
October 2nd, 2008, 02:10 PM
So 6% of D-I athletes are foreign. Okay. Aside from the issue the article raised about athletes having come from pro backgrounds, I don't really see an issue. Certainly nothing that comes as a surprise anyhow.

aquageek
October 2nd, 2008, 02:15 PM
For the love of god, do we really have to start the sniffling about this all over again? For the record, I don't care, will never care, couldn't care less. I have more important things to worry about, like who burned down our local Taco Bell.

Warren
October 2nd, 2008, 02:18 PM
oh god, here we go. I personally don't have a problem with it. The best collage age swimmers our country dont even swim in college, Micheal Phelps and katie hoff.

thewookiee
October 2nd, 2008, 02:22 PM
Some of my closet friends on the swim team and from other sports were foreign athletes over here on scholarship. If it hadn't been for the money, then they wouldn't have been able to be over here and I wouldn't have a number of good people that I can still call FRIENDS to this day.


Let's drop this topic and move on.

gull
October 2nd, 2008, 02:40 PM
For the love of god, do we really have to start the sniffling about this all over again?

We are, after all, a nation of whiners. Or so I've been told.

TheGoodSmith
October 2nd, 2008, 03:07 PM
Then does there exist a percentage or threshold of foreign competitors occupying NCAA scholarships that would ever be excessive?

knelson
October 2nd, 2008, 03:08 PM
I wouldn't dream of accusing lazy coaches who don't recruit well of using "hired guns" from other countries to win championships.

Some would argue they are recruiting better by looking outside the borders of the U.S. for athletes.

Anyone in college on an athletic scholarship is a hired gun.

aquageek
October 2nd, 2008, 03:10 PM
Then does there exist a percentage or threshold of foreign competitors occupying NCAA scholarships that would ever be excessive?

No, stop crying, move one. This is beat up and rode hard and put away wet for crying in the night.

TheGoodSmith
October 2nd, 2008, 04:13 PM
Some would argue they are recruiting better by looking outside the borders of the U.S. for athletes.

Anyone in college on an athletic scholarship is a hired gun.


Your Sarah Palin grasp of the concept demonstrates your experience with the issue.

If you'd like me to translate..... Hired guns are serious point scores at NCAAs.

aquageek
October 2nd, 2008, 04:18 PM
If you'd like me to translate..... Hired guns are serious point scores at NCAAs.

Ay caramba, can we just say you are right so you will stop your mantastic man crying? NO ONE CARES other than you. Now come to Charlotte and rebuild Taco Bell, be of some use to someone for goodness sakes.

knelson
October 2nd, 2008, 04:20 PM
Hired guns are serious point scores at NCAAs.

I agree. That sounds like good recruiting to me. What's your point again?

hofffam
October 2nd, 2008, 04:22 PM
Whew! I'm glad to see that men's synchronized swimming isn't overrun with foreign athletes.

The real issue for me is not foreign vs. American. It is 9.9 scholarships for men's Div 1 swimming.

And 85 for football.

TheGoodSmith
October 2nd, 2008, 04:23 PM
I agree. That sounds like good recruiting to me. What's your point again?

It's the NCAA not the ICAA.

The Fortress
October 2nd, 2008, 04:24 PM
The real issue for me is not foreign vs. American. It is 9.9 scholarships for men's Div 1 swimming.

And 85 for football.

That's a good way to get Mr. My America out of the woodwork.

TheGoodSmith
October 2nd, 2008, 04:25 PM
Whew! I'm glad to see that men's synchronized swimming isn't overrun with foreign athletes.

The real issue for me is not foreign vs. American. It is 9.9 scholarships for men's Div 1 swimming.

And 85 for football.

Agreed.... that's what makes every last ounce of money more valuable and now even more difficult to obtain for US kids.

aquageek
October 2nd, 2008, 04:27 PM
Agreed.... that's what makes every last ounce of money more valuable and now even more difficult to obtain for US kids.

There are billions of unclaimed scholarships dollars every year so stop pulling facts out of your FastSkin. No one is deprived. Seriously, can you please stop making up stats and crying about a non-issue? What is it gonna take for this to happen? I will buy you all the beer you want.

I swam with 7 or 8 D-1 guys today and a D-II guy who swam against a current NCAA hotshot from a foreign country. You know what he said about him? - "he is awesome." Maybe when he's 57 like you he will cry rivers.

hofffam
October 2nd, 2008, 04:36 PM
There are billions of unclaimed scholarships dollars every year so stop pulling facts out of your FastSkin. No one is deprived. Seriously, can you please stop making up stats and crying about a non-issue? What is it gonna take for this to happen? I will buy you all the beer you want.

I swam with 7 or 8 D-1 guys today and a D-II guy who swam against a current NCAA hotshot from a foreign country. You know what he said about him? - "he is awesome." Maybe when he's 57 like you he will cry rivers.

Billions of dollars of unclaimed scholarships?

If each scholarship were worth $30,000 then that would mean at least 33,333 scholarships are unclaimed.

Since this is a swimming forum I assume Goodsmith is really talking about NCAA swimming, both Div 1 and Div 2. No scholarships in Div 3. I bet there are zero unallocated men's swimming scholarships in Div 1.

aquageek
October 2nd, 2008, 04:42 PM
I've read about the billions, may or may not be true. The point is there is plenty of money out there for people to go to school, even poor pitiful passed over elite American swimmers. Well, maybe not so much now due to the economic situation.

elise526
October 2nd, 2008, 05:25 PM
Having been a USA coach in the past, I can see the concern. One thing that drives and motivates kids in high school to get up at 4:30 in the morning after having done a workout just 12 hours before is the idea that they may get a scholarship to swim in college.

With the already small number of scholarships for swimming and the fact that some of them go to international students makes getting one to a top swimming school extremely difficult. I live in Alabama where the only two colleges in the state that offer a swim team (Div. I, II, or III) are Auburn and Alabama. I can't help but wonder sometimes if the reason why we have few boys in the sport here after 12 is because of the snowball's chance in hell of getting a swimming scholarship to a state school.

On the other hand, knowing how tough it is for a swimmer to get a swimming scholarship keeps USA coaches on their toes to produce swimmers good enough to get one. All USA coaches need to re-examine their programs and ask why colleges are having to recruit swimmers from other countries.

I also believe that there are more opportunities out there than folks realize. Coaches looking to help swimmers get scholarships need to do their homework and look around. As a coach, I was able to locate out-of-state schools that were willing to offer my swimmers scholarships. Also, Division III schools may not offer athletic scholarships, but many such schools will give a preference to swimmers in awarding academic scholarships.

alphadog
October 2nd, 2008, 05:33 PM
I don't see the issue unless they are given preferential treatment in some way. I'd be less inclined to support it if they weren't "hired guns" (i.e., they were selected because of nationality rather than accomplishment or ability). It is too bad that swimming scholarships are so hard to come by but the solution shouldn't include giving them to less accomplished athletes.

ehoch
October 2nd, 2008, 05:36 PM
Foreign athlete here who "stole" a scholarship from an American --

We had our swim workout at LMU this Sunday -Loyola Marymount is a private school in Los Angeles - I am guessing $30,000+ per year. They had the roster of the Men's and Women's tennis teams listed - of the 18 players 11 were foreign born. Not sure how many scholarships LMU tennis gives out - but I know that no European student would consider paying this much money for school - so I am guessing they all get full rides.

That just makes no sense to me - not sure what to do about it, but I said before, a cap in terms of scholarships could be a good start.

hofffam
October 2nd, 2008, 06:01 PM
There may be billions of dollars of unclaimed scholarships of all types - including adademic. I just don't believe there are billions of dollars of unclaimed athletic scholarships.

There are some nuances to this issue by the way.

If you are a resident of Texas - you can attend Texas or A&M for about $24K a year. A fractional swimming scholarship isn't really worth much money. I spoke to a Texas swimmer (a Big 12 champion) recently who for many semesters just earned book money. A&M's 2nd fastest 50 free guy (19.6?) was a walk-on. But these guys were Texas residents and $24K wasn't a big deal for those particular families. Look at Eddie Reese's roster this fall. It is huge. Most of the guys must be 100% walkons.

A fractional scholarship to Stanford is worth a lot more. And a fractional scholarship is worth a lot more to out of state and foreign students.

Paul Smith
October 2nd, 2008, 06:37 PM
Lets use the Euro professional sports model....maximum of two foreign swimmers per team and they or their federation pay for the costs leaving what little scholorship dollars do exist to develop our own talent.

And for the record....only a little over 2% of the general student body (according to the article) is foriegn born (not counting illegal aliens of course) so the diversity argument doesn't fly.

scyfreestyler
October 2nd, 2008, 07:41 PM
Lets use the Euro professional sports model....maximum of two foreign swimmers per team and they or their federation pay for the costs leaving what little scholorship dollars do exist to develop our own talent.

And for the record....only a little over 2% of the general student body (according to the article) is foriegn born (not counting illegal aliens of course) so the diversity argument doesn't fly.

I think the article made it quite obvious that diversity was not the goal.


Says Saum, the NCAA's director of amateur certification, "It's all about winning and losing. We're always looking for an edge athletically, and there are only so many (players) at a certain position. If I need a 6-10 guy, there are only so many 6-10 guys around."

When people go cuckoo crazy over college sports, getting tattoos of their school 20+ years after graduation as an example..wink wink, schools are going to pull out the stops to win. If that means bringing in an even greater number of overseas athletes, then so be it. It's all about the win, after all.

haroldbuck
October 2nd, 2008, 08:49 PM
There are billions of unclaimed scholarships dollars every year so stop pulling facts out of your FastSkin.

"Billions in unclaimed scholarships" sounds like a fact pulled out of a fastskin. Ah, yes, thanks to Google:

http://www.nelnet.com/financial_aid_advice.aspx?id=1179&path=bsp.fye.ufa.tips

My friend says that you should have to compete internationally for whatever country you compete for in college (in swimming, athletics, basketball, volleyball, etc.).

haroldbuck
October 2nd, 2008, 09:03 PM
I've read about the billions, may or may not be true. The point is there is plenty of money out there for people to go to school

That sounds like a myth bought into by people who are well off so they can tell themselves that anyone who doesn't go to college could have gone for free if they were just willing to google "unclaimed scholarships".

In fact, if you do that you're likely to find tons of sites, almost all of them ready to try to screw you out of what little cash you have.

tjrpatt
October 3rd, 2008, 12:17 AM
I could care less anymore about foreign swimmers. But, the weird thing is that my former college coach seems to have more American swimmers on the team nowadays. I guess that some coaches like the foreign swimmers because they feel that they can control the foreigner, they won't talk back or push them in the pool(this guy on my former college team pushed the my former college coach in the pool after some argument over absolutely nothing. I think that the coach egged him on to kick him off the team).

ehoch
October 3rd, 2008, 12:25 AM
Lets use the Euro professional sports model....maximum of two foreign swimmers per team

That used to be the rule in socccer for example - but no more - the German League had team last year that put 11 foreign players on the field.

elise526
October 3rd, 2008, 01:52 AM
I got curious and thought I would check the rosters of some of the top ranked men's swimming programs. Arizona has 34 on its roster which includes 10 swimmers from Arizona and 7 international swimmers. Auburn (located in Alabama) has 25 on its roster which includes 1 swimmer from Alabama and 6 international swimmers.

I have to admit that it bothers me somewhat that there are more international swimmers on Auburn's team than swimmers from Alabama. Keep in mind that Auburn is a state school and we have several outstanding USA teams in the state - Huntsville Swim Association, Birmingham Swim League, Hoover Blue Thunder, Auburn Aquatics are just a few of the good teams we have here. I sure would like to see more than one Alabama swimmer on the roster.

LindsayNB
October 3rd, 2008, 09:06 AM
Elise, have you compared the times of the international swimmers against those of the high school graduating classes the years the international swimmers joined? I am curious as to whether there is a gap and if so how large it is.

hofffam
October 3rd, 2008, 10:46 AM
I got curious and thought I would check the rosters of some of the top ranked men's swimming programs. Arizona has 34 on its roster which includes 10 swimmers from Arizona and 7 international swimmers. Auburn (located in Alabama) has 25 on its roster which includes 1 swimmer from Alabama and 6 international swimmers.

I have to admit that it bothers me somewhat that there are more international swimmers on Auburn's team than swimmers from Alabama. Keep in mind that Auburn is a state school and we have several outstanding USA teams in the state - Huntsville Swim Association, Birmingham Swim League, Hoover Blue Thunder, Auburn Aquatics are just a few of the good teams we have here. I sure would like to see more than one Alabama swimmer on the roster.

With 9.9 scholarships - care to guess what % was allocated to the international students? If only one swimmer is from Alabama then almost the entire team has to pay out of state tuition or receive financial aid (could be scholarships). I don't know how much difference there is in tuition in-state vs. out-of-state in Alabama.

I bet Cesar Cielo gets 1 scholarship. That leaves 8.9 to be divided among the remaining 24 swimmers+divers.

elise526
October 3rd, 2008, 11:13 AM
Elise, have you compared the times of the international swimmers against those of the high school graduating classes the years the international swimmers joined? I am curious as to whether there is a gap and if so how large it is.

Lindsay - I have no doubt the times of the international swimmers are faster. What is disturbing to me is that it appears that Auburn, our state land grant university, is unwillling to cultivate the talent we have here.

I speak from personal experience. I coached a kid until he was 15 and sent him on to a bigger, faster USA team. He stayed in touch with me a good bit after he left and kept me filled in on his training, meets, etc. After only 4 years of competitive swimming, he was going a 1:49 in 200 yards backstroke. Despite being the home boy, Auburn showed absolutely no interest in him. His back was his best as his 200 free was only 1:41, although I believe he was going a high 23 in 50 meters LC free.

Seems our boys find happier homes at Alabama, Tennessee, and Texas.

knelson
October 3rd, 2008, 11:27 AM
I bet Cesar Cielo gets 1 scholarship. That leaves 8.9
to be divided among the remaining 24 swimmers+divers.

Nope. Cielo went pro.

DanSad
October 3rd, 2008, 11:28 AM
These numbers may be off but hope you see the point...

If there are 50,000 US men/women of college age who swim and would like to swim at a university or college. I'm assuming there are far fewer foreign swimmers of college age who swim and would like to swim at a US university or college, say 20,000. Why is it that a higher percentage of those foreign swimmers are of a higher caliber than the US swimmers enabling them to get the swimming scholarships? Maybe we should be looking at their coaching and training techniques.

knelson
October 3rd, 2008, 11:33 AM
Why is it that a higher percentage of those foreign swimmers are of a higher caliber than the US swimmers enabling them to get the swimming scholarships?

There are about 300 million people in the U.S., but nearly 6 billion in the world. Yeah, only a small fraction of that total resides in countries with strong swimming teams, but the bottom line is you've got a much bigger talent pool to draw from when you look outside the U.S. I believe your premise that a higher percentage of foreign swimmers are of higher caliber than U.S. swimmers is flat out wrong.

hofffam
October 3rd, 2008, 11:42 AM
Nope. Cielo went pro.

OK - but in prior years Cielo probably had 10% of Auburn's scholarships for men's swimming/diving.

BTW - not saying he didn't deserve it. We proved he was the world's best short course yards sprinter (and a fine LCM sprinter too in Beijing).

haroldbuck
October 3rd, 2008, 11:46 AM
Lindsay - I have no doubt the times of the international swimmers are faster. What is disturbing to me is that it appears that Auburn, our state land grant university, is unwillling to cultivate the talent we have here.

Wait a minute. Is the job of the coach to try to cultivate talent within the state, or to try to put the best team together he can to try to win?

At lower levels, people should be trying to develop talent and make sure the kids have fun. But I'm pretty sure that in college, they want the team to win. If the football team at Auburn went 4-8 and the coach said, "Yeah, we didn't win, but look at all of the local talent I cultivated!" I'm pretty sure he'd still get fired. Is swimming all that different? Do you think they'd give the coach a pass on having a sucky team just because he gave lots of scholarships to Alabama kids to try to cultivate them?

aquageek
October 3rd, 2008, 11:48 AM
If you are good enough to swim or play football for Auburn, you are good enough to swim or play for every single univesity program in the US. Plus, why in the world would anyone voluntarily stay in the state of Alabama? I'm from AL so I can say this.

elise526
October 3rd, 2008, 12:06 PM
Wait a minute. Is the job of the coach to try to cultivate talent within the state, or to try to put the best team together he can to try to win?

At lower levels, people should be trying to develop talent and make sure the kids have fun. But I'm pretty sure that in college, they want the team to win. If the football team at Auburn went 4-8 and the coach said, "Yeah, we didn't win, but look at all of the local talent I cultivated!" I'm pretty sure he'd still get fired. Is swimming all that different? Do you think they'd give the coach a pass on having a sucky team just because he gave lots of scholarships to Alabama kids to try to cultivate them?

Interesting to me that Auburn limits their team to 25 swimmers. They should follow the example of Arizona and have 34. Let the in-state guys walk on and take a stab at proving themselves. College swimming is not professional swimming by the way. We should hope that colleges consider the diamonds in the rough. Nobody said the entire team had to be made up of all in-state guys, but you have to admit that 1 is pretty pathetic.

Rest assured that if the Auburn football team had only 5% of its players from Alabama, the Trustees would be breathing down the coach's neck, whatever the record.

elise526
October 3rd, 2008, 12:54 PM
If you are good enough to swim or play football for Auburn, you are good enough to swim or play for every single univesity program in the US. Plus, why in the world would anyone voluntarily stay in the state of Alabama? I'm from AL so I can say this.

:rofl:

Now, now geek. It's not so bad here. We've got mountains, the beach, lots of fattening barbecue, friendly people, and some great football teams.

hofffam
October 3rd, 2008, 02:20 PM
Interesting to me that Auburn limits their team to 25 swimmers. They should follow the example of Arizona and have 34. Let the in-state guys walk on and take a stab at proving themselves. College swimming is not professional swimming by the way. We should hope that colleges consider the diamonds in the rough. Nobody said the entire team had to be made up of all in-state guys, but you have to admit that 1 is pretty pathetic.

Rest assured that if the Auburn football team had only 5% of its players from Alabama, the Trustees would be breathing down the coach's back, whatever the record.

I bet it is not the coaches decision alone on how big the roster is. The athletic director sets a budget for the sport. Even if many of the athletes are walkons, there is a non-trivial cost to carrying an athlete on the team. Travel, equipment, insurance, etc. all add up. Eddie Reese seems to have the budget to carry 30+ on his roster. The Texas A&M coach told me he was targeted at 24-28 on the roster, including divers.

Maybe Hill Taylor went to Texas because of uncertainty with Marsh. Do you know he wasn't recruited? He would be 2nd or 3rd fastest on the roster in backstroke.

elise526
October 3rd, 2008, 03:23 PM
I really don't know about Hill Taylor. Whatever the case, it sends a bad signal to have just 1 kid on the team from the state. I don't know how much longer this will be allowed to go on. You have to somewhat understand the politics in this state, but sooner or later somebody with influence is going to get mad that his kid got snubbed.

I very much like the coaches at Auburn. First rate people. I would like to see them have a pattern that is closer to that of Alabama. Alabama has 28 swimmers on their team with 7 being from Alabama and 5 being international.

I would like to see the Auburn coaches aggressively recruit kids from this state that have NCAA "B" cuts or are close to them. They should have faith enough in their coaching to trust that they can make an NCAA finalist out of such a swimmer.

knelson
October 3rd, 2008, 04:19 PM
I guess in Alabama people from out of the country and out of the state are considered 'foreigners.'

elise526
October 3rd, 2008, 04:34 PM
I guess in Alabama people from out of the country and out of the state are considered 'foreigners.'

As long as somebody is from one of the states in the SEC, then he/she is not considered a foreigner. ;)

craiglll@yahoo.com
October 4th, 2008, 09:25 PM
I went to a very small, hard, expensive college. I couldn't swim the entire time because I had to work. In this state the largest university doesn't have a men's swim team.

In many other sports there has been a tremendous use of foreign students for decades. It has been argued that the Iranian revolution was in fact started by the huge number of Iranian young men here playing soccer for universities (I remember them on our streets in the time. Some were the best collegiate soccer players our country has ever seen) . They were able to see just how manipulative the US was in other nations' internal affairs. Okay now I've made everyone made at me again.

The guy who was (might still be) in charge of running investigations of foreign students coming to the states went to the same little college I went to. I would argue that the scholarships that go to foreign born volleyball players ensure a more harmful view to our notion of foreigners going to our schools with sports scholarships than do swimmers. Many schools get these guys to their schools, if they don't win, the guy looses everything. Many of these guys coem from Brazil. Many have very weak arguments against calling themselves professional volleyball players.

knelson
October 5th, 2008, 02:01 AM
I would argue that the scholarships that go to foreign born volleyball players ensure a more harmful view to our notion of foreigners going to our schools with sports scholarships than do swimmers. Many schools get these guys to their schools

Ignorance on my part, but I had no idea men's volleyball was an NCAA sport until reading this. I remember thinking it was strange that the U.S. men's team did so well in Beijing considering it isn't an NCAA sport.

craiglll@yahoo.com
October 5th, 2008, 03:21 AM
I'm not real sure but I think the only sport that men compete in on the collegiate level that isn't controlled by the NCAA is rowing. Which oddly is one of the first sports colleges competed in here in the States.

It always amazed me also is how expensive it is to have just one person let alone 8 or 30.

haroldbuck
October 5th, 2008, 09:31 AM
I'm not real sure but I think the only sport that men compete in on the collegiate level that isn't controlled by the NCAA is rowing. Which oddly is one of the first sports colleges competed in here in the States.

I don't understand this comment at all. There are a ton of sports that are contested at the collegiate level that aren't NCAA sports: rugby, Ultimate frisbee, etc. Ultimate, at least, and probably others have governing bodies that set standards and rules, check eligibility, and so on.

Plus there's the NAIA, or whatever, that governs a lot of non-NCAA schools for athletics.

craiglll@yahoo.com
October 5th, 2008, 12:29 PM
I don't understand this comment at all. There are a ton of sports that are contested at the collegiate level that aren't NCAA sports: rugby, Ultimate frisbee, etc. Ultimate, at least, and probably others have governing bodies that set standards and rules, check eligibility, and so on.

Plus there's the NAIA, or whatever, that governs a lot of non-NCAA schools for athletics.

I'm sorry I thought that Ultimate Frisbee teams had to have both men & women on the team.

Also, I guess i am still in the Olympic state of mind.

haroldbuck
October 5th, 2008, 04:51 PM
I'm sorry I thought that Ultimate Frisbee teams had to have both men & women on the team.


There are some local rules requiring coed teams, but most college teams are men's or women's.

knelson
October 5th, 2008, 11:33 PM
Rowing is a strange one because there are quite a few very serious men's rowing teams. I'm sure the primary reason it's not added for men is Title IX compliance. Lots of schools have added women's programs in rowing for that very reason.

Blackbeard's Peg
October 5th, 2008, 11:49 PM
Lindsay - I have no doubt the times of the international swimmers are faster. What is disturbing to me is that it appears that Auburn, our state land grant university, is unwillling to cultivate the talent we have here.
...
Seems our boys find happier homes at Alabama, Tennessee, and Texas.

I think this is indicative of the situation at many programs, and I see this in the DC/Metro area annually. There are several great national USA-S programs in the area cultivating world-class swimmers (Rockville-Montgomery, FISH, Curl), and every year, I see the top kids go away for school rather than stay home and head to the University of Maryland. These kids want to have a college experience, and all too often, they want to be as far away from home as they can get. And why not? In some cases, these kids may be swimming in the same Natatorium for 10 years by the time they're done with college.
You can't blame them for that, but at the same time, what are these universities doing to recruit these kids? ARE these local universities recruiting these kids? What about diversity on your team - don't you want swimmers from different backgrounds coming in?
To Maryland's credit, the last couple of years, they've gotten a couple of RMSC guys with some real potential - my hope is they'll be the beginning of a pipeline back to the club and that they'll start bringing their younger friends in and help build our team with local talent.

craiglll@yahoo.com
October 6th, 2008, 09:19 AM
I think this is indicative of the situation at many programs, and I see this in the DC/Metro area annually. There are several great national USA-S programs in the area cultivating world-class swimmers (Rockville-Montgomery, FISH, Curl), and every year, I see the top kids go away for school rather than stay home and head to the University of Maryland. These kids want to have a college experience, and all too often, they want to be as far away from home as they can get. And why not? In some cases, these kids may be swimming in the same Natatorium for 10 years by the time they're done with college.
You can't blame them for that, but at the same time, what are these universities doing to recruit these kids? ARE these local universities recruiting these kids? What about diversity on your team - don't you want swimmers from different backgrounds coming in?
To Maryland's credit, the last couple of years, they've gotten a couple of RMSC guys with some real potential - my hope is they'll be the beginning of a pipeline back to the club and that they'll start bringing their younger friends in and help build our team with local talent.

Has Maryland still refused to introduce swimming to inter-high school competition?

pwolf66
October 6th, 2008, 10:29 AM
Has Maryland still refused to introduce swimming to inter-high school competition?


Not sure what you mean by that but I know that Montgomery County in Maryland has 4 divisions for HS swimming and holds duel meets.

haroldbuck
October 6th, 2008, 11:32 AM
Not sure what you mean by that but I know that Montgomery County in Maryland has 4 divisions for HS swimming and holds duel meets.

If guns or swords are involved, that's probably why Maryland doesn't want swimming as a HS sport. :bolt: