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ddl
October 5th, 2008, 10:52 PM
What is the difference between the two?

Typhoons Coach
October 5th, 2008, 11:04 PM
The arm pulls for the two are the most significant difference.

In the elementary backstroke the arms move from a touch position (hands down at the sides touching the hips/thighs) straight up to the armpits, and finally into a "T" position prior to pulling. Your pulling motion is with straight arms (or slightly bent arms) pulling the water down to the legs.

The inverted breaststroke (though I don't use it all to often) is where you would extend your hands down out to streamline position from the pull. The pull down is seen as more of a push down on the water so you are pusing the water down instead of pulling the water down. If you were to imagine yourself on the side of a deck facedown, you would be pulling down from streamline, and grabbing onto the deck with your elbows tight into your body and pushing yourself into the water.

Hopefully that makes sense for you!

ddl
October 5th, 2008, 11:21 PM
Thanks for the explanation. So roughly speaking, the main difference is that in elementary backstroke, the hands never go past the shoulders, while in inverted breaststroke, hands extend long above head, correct? And in both cases both hands move together, rather than alternate (as in backstroke)?

It looks to me the elementary stroke would be best for survival since it saves energy and you face up without breathing problem?

Typhoons Coach
October 6th, 2008, 11:57 AM
Thanks for the explanation. So roughly speaking, the main difference is that in elementary backstroke, the hands never go past the shoulders, while in inverted breaststroke, hands extend long above head, correct? And in both cases both hands move together, rather than alternate (as in backstroke)?

It looks to me the elementary stroke would be best for survival since it saves energy and you face up without breathing problem?

That's correct in your summary, and, yes, the elementary backstroke is considered a survival stroke.

geochuck
October 6th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Just go down the list of videos you will find elementary backstroke underwater and above water. http://wellness.lattc.edu/real/strokes.html

Typhoons Coach
October 6th, 2008, 09:54 PM
Just go down the list of videos you will find elementary backstroke underwater and above water. http://wellness.lattc.edu/real/strokes.html

Thanks for sharing the video, George! Defintely helps the explanation!

ddl
October 6th, 2008, 11:18 PM
Thanks, the videos are very nice! By the way, what is inverted breaststroke good for?

geochuck
October 7th, 2008, 12:19 AM
Inverted breaststroke could be used for helping develop a better kick. It is certainly not a competitive stroke. I can see it is much better for travelling and as a resting stroke then elementary backstroke. Elementary backstroke was always considered as a resting stroke.

Typhoons Coach
October 7th, 2008, 09:58 AM
I agree; definitely developing the kick, but it could also be used to develop the pullout of the breaststroke as well. More so, though, for the kick technique...

norascats
October 18th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Elementary back, the arms and legs work together. The glide is with the hands down at the side of the body.
Inverted breast coordinates like the breast stroke. Arms pull down and the kick is during the recovery. The glide is with the arms over the head.
Both strokes are restful.
I learned all eleven strokes back when I was in school. Swimming was not so focused onn racing and speed in those days.

sarge
October 19th, 2008, 10:37 AM
So if it's a "survival" stroke, I'd probably want to use it in a 400 IM since my goal in that event usually is survival.:D

Allen Stark
October 19th, 2008, 11:23 AM
So if it's a "survival" stroke, I'd probably want to use it in a 400 IM since my goal in that event usually is survival.:D

It's not uncommon at a meet to see some of the older swimmers swimming what is essentially inverted breaststroke with an overarm recovery(inverted butterfrog.)

geochuck
October 19th, 2008, 01:09 PM
We used to have some great backstroke swimmers who used the double arm backstroke over top recovery and used a frog kick. The one who used to win all the backstroke races in Canada went to school at USC. He held the Canadian record for the 100 and the 200 backstroke.

mermaid
October 19th, 2008, 08:03 PM
There is a guy who swims in the amymsa league who swims the European Backstroke - double arm recovery over the water with an inverted breaststroke kick.

One of the coolest things about swimming Masters' leagues is that you can see the changes and progressions of the strokes as they were taught and competed all in the same heat/event.

"different strokes for different folks" rings a bell . . . God bless us all for getting from one end to another

Typhoons Coach
October 20th, 2008, 09:33 AM
One of the coolest things about swimming Masters' leagues is that you can see the changes and progressions of the strokes as they were taught and competed all in the same heat/event.

I absolutely agree with that!!