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Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 07:50 AM
We just got done with today's practice and I have to say that we had more late swimmers today than we have had so far this year! I'm curious to see what everyone's policy (if any) you or your team have with showing up on time? I definitely don't want to be a harda$$, but I want people to show up on time as well!

Look forward to the comments!

thewookiee
October 10th, 2008, 07:58 AM
One thing I use to do is make the late swimmer(s) stand over the lanes and give the next set out. This made the other swimmers just a bit pissed because the workouts were adjusted to be harder than planned. Afterwards, in the locker room, the ones that had to swim, made it very clear at their disappointment in their teammates.

For my old team, that really cut down on being late.

Chris Stevenson
October 10th, 2008, 08:00 AM
I definitely don't want to be a harda$$, but I want people to show up on time as well!

Well, it seems like one of those two things is going to have to give.

(I have never swum on or with a masters team with a late policy and couldn't imagine doing so.)

slknight
October 10th, 2008, 08:06 AM
Well, it seems like one of those two things is going to have to give.

(I have never swum on or with a masters team with a late policy and couldn't imagine doing so.)

Ditto this.

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 08:12 AM
For my old team, that really cut down on being late.

I would imagine so!

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 08:13 AM
I have never swum on or with a masters team with a late policy and couldn't imagine doing so.

I am getting that impression from my swimmers, but showing up almost 45 minutes late for an hour and a half practice is sort of ridiculous, no?

CreamPuff
October 10th, 2008, 08:23 AM
The masters' teams I have swum with have only one policy that can be summed up as "anything goes; it's masters."

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 08:31 AM
The masters' teams I have swum with have only one policy that can be summed up as "anything goes; it's masters."

Ha! Fair enough!

FlyQueen
October 10th, 2008, 08:40 AM
The masters' teams I have swum with have only one policy that can be summed up as "anything goes; it's masters."

Amen! In all honesty as a coach I don't mind if swimmers show up late. We are adults with jobs, families, and other committments. People get there when they can and do what they can. As a swimmer I always try to tell the coach if I am leaving early and apologize if I am late. My philosophy basically is that it is better to show up late than not at all.

thewookiee
October 10th, 2008, 08:46 AM
Andy,

Did you are you talking about age group or masters? That practice worked on age groupers...not masters.

Flyqueen is right though, better late than not at all.

Rykno
October 10th, 2008, 08:50 AM
my age-group coach didn't like people showing up late. his punishment was based on his humor at the moment. once someone had to do a 5000yd IM.

tjrpatt
October 10th, 2008, 08:56 AM
If I am going to be 45 minutes late to practice, I wouldn't even bother showing up. If people show up late at our group, it is not a big deal. They just get in the pool and bend right into the workout that we are on.

Chris Stevenson
October 10th, 2008, 09:04 AM
my age-group coach didn't like people showing up late. his punishment was based on his humor at the moment. once someone had to do a 5000yd IM.

Age group is a different story. The standing policy at my club was 100 fly at the end of practice for every minute late. ("On time" meant in the water by start time, not standing on the pool deck.)

I can pretty much credit this and similar policies by that coach for turning me into a 200 butterflier by the time I went to college. :)

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 09:49 AM
Andy,

Did you are you talking about age group or masters? That practice worked on age groupers...not masters.

Flyqueen is right though, better late than not at all.

Talking about Master's....my age groupers know better!

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 09:51 AM
If I am going to be 45 minutes late to practice, I wouldn't even bother showing up. If people show up late at our group, it is not a big deal. They just get in the pool and bend right into the workout that we are on.

This is generally the thought process right now.

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 09:51 AM
Age group is a different story. The standing policy at my club was 100 fly at the end of practice for every minute late. ("On time" meant in the water by start time, not standing on the pool deck.)

I can pretty much credit this and similar policies by that coach for turning me into a 200 butterflier by the time I went to college. :)

Yeah....we do climbouts for every minute late for my age-groupers...

some_girl
October 10th, 2008, 09:54 AM
On my team as long as you are there by the end of warmup it isn't a big deal. After that, it is pretty annoying and people will let you know, mostly through mockery from both coaches and swimmers. So while you won't get punished for being late, there is definitely an expectation that you won't be.

I don't see why anyone would bother showing up 45 minutes late.

craig68
October 10th, 2008, 10:48 AM
My guess is that most Masters swimmers would rather have been at workout for the first 45 minutes than doing whatever it was that made them that late. Finishing a project at work, taking the kids somewhere, running errands, you name it. More than likely, taking care of someone else instead of taking care of themselves. If we're talking about morning workout, they were probably up late the night before doing one of the above, and just needed the rest. The remaining 45 minutes of workout is healthier for their minds and bodies than heading straight home and plopping in front of the TV because they didn't want to interrupt practice. I vote you just have patience with them and welcome them into the fold when they arrive.

The Fortress
October 10th, 2008, 11:10 AM
Age group is a different story. The standing policy at my club was 100 fly at the end of practice for every minute late. ("On time" meant in the water by start time, not standing on the pool deck.)

I can pretty much credit this and similar policies by that coach for turning me into a 200 butterflier by the time I went to college. :)

That's pretty much what happens on my daughter's team. It has the effect of the kids begging the parents to be on time.

However, sometimes it's hard to be precisely on time given the vagaries of traffic here. When school lets out at x time and practice starts at x +20 in another town, that ain't easy! Plus, USA-S swimmers have the longest warm ups known to mankind.

I showed up 45 minutes late to a masters practice once after a 75 minute commute (mega traffic from event). I almost turned around. Mentioned this to the coach, who said it was "definitely" better I came.

mjgold
October 10th, 2008, 11:43 AM
I am getting that impression from my swimmers, but showing up almost 45 minutes late for an hour and a half practice is sort of ridiculous, no?

They're only hurting themselves. I show up 30 minutes early, and I am always the last one out of the pool. We have a few people who are like this, but the majority show up 5-10 minutes early and leave with everyone else. We do, however, have one or two people who will show up at 7:45 or almost 8pm when our practices are only 7pm-8:30pm. Personally, I would feel so stupid showing up that late, but I don't know their situation. They might have to work, and that's the earliest they can get there--something is better than nothing, right?

I think that having a late policy on a masters team is just going to encourage them to not bother showing up if they're late. Would you rather them not show up or show up late?

some_girl
October 10th, 2008, 11:54 AM
I showed up 45 minutes late to a masters practice once after a 75 minute commute (mega traffic from event). I almost turned around. Mentioned this to the coach, who said it was "definitely" better I came.

Once in a while, sure, sh*t happens. But if you often cannot make it to a practice close to on time, then you know what, that practice doesn't work for you, so go to another one or swim alone or find another team. Interrupting the rest of the lane's flow cause you don't want to go home and watch TV is rude. Being late in general is rude.

I dunno, maybe it is just that our lanes are pretty full, but adding a body can cause a fair amount of chaos.

mjgold
October 10th, 2008, 12:02 PM
Maybe the people who show up late to your practice just don't know how to be polite. When someone is late to our practice and gets in my lane, most of the time I don't realize they showed up until we're done a set, and they're there. Even when we have 7 or 8 people in a lane, there is still a gap at the end of the line that they just slip into and hang out at the back until the set is over so they can go to where they normally are in the order.

anita
October 10th, 2008, 12:12 PM
I would not be on a Masters team that had a late policy.

Life happens, it's nothing personal.

hofffam
October 10th, 2008, 12:19 PM
The masters' teams I have swum with have only one policy that can be summed up as "anything goes; it's masters."

That is how ours works. Coached swimming begins at 5:45 a.m. and ends at about 8:15 a.m.. Some guys show up and swim sets together. On the hand are people like me who don't want to swim at 5:45 so I show up at 6:30.

No problem here!

knelson
October 10th, 2008, 12:21 PM
We have no policy. You never know how full practice will be at the beginning because so many people are late. Many are just five minutes late or so, others much later. Yes, I'm sure lots of people are late for a legit reason, but I think there are other people who are just the kind of people who show up late for everything.

I admit I find it mildly annoying. Not so much if there aren't a lot of people already in the water, but if you've already got five swimmers in your lane and someone new jumps in it's annoying.

tjrpatt
October 10th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Age group is a different story. The standing policy at my club was 100 fly at the end of practice for every minute late. ("On time" meant in the water by start time, not standing on the pool deck.)

I can pretty much credit this and similar policies by that coach for turning me into a 200 butterflier by the time I went to college. :)

Is there any punishment for the "shower rats"(people who hang out in the shower/locker room area for the good portion of the practice or the people who show up at the start of practice, go hang out at the local pizza place(We used to train at Swarthmore college and the pool was next to downtown Swarthmore) and then, come back before their parents came to pick them up. These kinds of things were prevalent at my age group club. Heck, some of the girls would dunk their hair in the shower to make it look like they swam when they didn't. Of course, none of this affected some of these individuals' performance for some odd reason. This one girl never trained more than 30 minutes but was always able to get her Junior Cut every year. The coach didn't do anything. If I was the coach, I would ignored these slackers at the meets and put all my focus at the meet to the "hard workers".

hofffam
October 10th, 2008, 02:11 PM
I REALLY would have a hard time with a team with rigid rules (in general). My preference is that we are all adults with relatively complicated lives and schedules. It isn't so easy to weave a job, a commute, family, and swimming workouts together.

I'm fortunate - my team has plenty of lanes - most of the time it is just two per lane. I haven't circle swum in two years. My coach is excellent - and he is happy when we show up. He will push us. He harrasses us when he doesn't think we are putting the proper effort into the workout. But in the end - it is Masters swimming!

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 03:58 PM
I admit I find it mildly annoying. Not so much if there aren't a lot of people already in the water, but if you've already got five swimmers in your lane and someone new jumps in it's annoying.

This is my biggest concern with this. If I am running a full practice and someone jumps in late I will have them swim a warmup which throws off the rest of the group, or throws off the tempo of the practice. I guess I could say that it's just Master's but I hold the program in higher regard than that....expecting too much??

CreamPuff
October 10th, 2008, 04:03 PM
Is there any punishment for the "shower rats"(people who hang out in the shower/locker room area for the good portion of the practice or the people who show up at the start of practice, go hang out at the local pizza place(We used to train at Swarthmore college and the pool was next to downtown Swarthmore) and then, come back before their parents came to pick them up. These kinds of things were prevalent at my age group club. Heck, some of the girls would dunk their hair in the shower to make it look like they swam when they didn't. Of course, none of this affected some of these individuals' performance for some odd reason. This one girl never trained more than 30 minutes but was always able to get her Junior Cut every year. The coach didn't do anything. If I was the coach, I would ignored these slackers at the meets and put all my focus at the meet to the "hard workers".

lol
Age Group/ SR Swimming @ USS is totally different from masters.

What would happen you ask?

This works well where I swim.
In the instance you describe, the coach would say they need not bother to get in. Go home. Think about what you want to get out of swimming. If you pull that kind of a stunt, this is not the group or team for you.
The next time, they will be moved down a level for a period of time.
Third time is find another team.
bye bye :wave:

It's a known fact that it's a privilege to be on the team. It is no one's right to be on the team.
The kids that are there all work their A$$'s off.
This is a coach run team by the way.

As for this gal who trains 30 minutes a day and gets her JR cuts, I would suspect that she doesn't have too great a showing at Juniors. I could be wrong. . .

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 04:07 PM
lol
Age Group/ SR Swimming @ USS is totally different from masters.

What would happen you ask?

This works well where I swim.
In the instance you describe, the coach would say they need not bother to get in. Go home. Think about what you want to get out of swimming. If you pull that kind of a stunt, this is not the group or team for you.
The next time, they will be moved down a level for a period of time.
Third time is find another team.
bye bye :wave:

It's a known fact that it's a privilege to be on the team. It is no one's right to be on the team.
The kids that are there all work their A$$'s off.
This is a coach run team by the way.


I remember those days of straight USS team! I kind of miss them, but I have to say that the Y atmosphere (though not as competitive all the time) is much more leniant. If I ever said that to the Y swimmers I could probably just leave the office keys on my way out...different programs (different strokes for different folks per se)

CreamPuff
October 10th, 2008, 04:09 PM
I remember those days of straight USS team! I kind of miss them, but I have to say that the Y atmosphere (though not as competitive all the time) is much more leniant. If I ever said that to the Y swimmers I could probably just leave the office keys on my way out...different programs (different strokes for different folks per se)

Ah yes. I agree in that would so NOT fly at the Y!

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 04:10 PM
Ah yes. I agree in that would so NOT fly at the Y!

haha! Yeah....but wait until we turn Y and USS! That will be interesting since these swimmers haven't been there/done that before!

Anyway, I am still debating on where to take my Master's "policy" (for lack of a better term)....someone play that jeopary music, please!

Lump
October 10th, 2008, 04:21 PM
AHHHHH....the joy of being one's own coach! :)

If I can't hit the water at 6AM I'll just stop by the pool on the way home from work

CreamPuff
October 10th, 2008, 06:32 PM
AHHHHH....the joy of being one's own coach! :)

If I can't hit the water at 6AM I'll just stop by the pool on the way home from work

You are officially the most disciplined person I know. :notworthy::notworthy:
1. You swam w/ Alex.
2. You can be your own coach as an adult.

I'm 0 for 2.

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 07:02 PM
AHHHHH....the joy of being one's own coach! :)

If I can't hit the water at 6AM I'll just stop by the pool on the way home from work

I'm the same way; sort of have to be since I am the Aquatic Director as well.

jjpj
October 10th, 2008, 08:01 PM
I'am on a team sine 4 weeks now and we only have 3 people in one lane but none of us is late.
In my opinion if you are serious about swimming then don't be late.
Sure thiings happen but if you are late a lot then you missing alot.

aztimm
October 10th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Generally if I think I'll be more than about 10 or 15 minutes late, I won't go to practice. Sure, things come up in the office, I could get stuck in traffic, whatever....but as a courtesy to those who are there on time I don't feel it is appropriate to be that late.

Shortly after I moved into my house (back in 2001), it took me a while to figure out the traffic patterns. I was consistently late for the 6AM workout. At some point the coach took me aside and said something. After that, I set my alarm clock 10 min earlier, and everything changed. Other than a freak freeway closure, there's little to get in the way of making a morning workout.

If I really want to swim (like I haven't had the chance for a while), and know I'll be very late, I'll just jump in a lap lane (if available), or come apologizing to the coach. Since it doesn't happen very often, I can get away with it when it does.

I try to treat swimming (and my entire workout routine) like any other meeting or appointment. If you have a 3 PM dentist appointment and show up at 3:30, I doubt your dentist would be too happy. If swimming the workout is that important to you, schedule the time to get there (of course extreme circumstances could come up occasionally).

Now I'll admit that I didn't swim on a team prior to masters, so I probably treat it differently than others.

Lump
October 10th, 2008, 08:33 PM
You are officially the most disciplined person I know. :notworthy::notworthy:
1. You swam w/ Alex.
2. You can be your own coach as an adult.

I'm 0 for 2.

Its the Jason Lezak approach....THAT guy is disciplined! As long as I love it its a none issue to get and swim. It might get a little tougher and the weather gets colder!:laugh2:

People are creatures of habit, once you get up early it becomes second nature. Yes, there are THOSE days, but the benefit outweighs staying in bed.

BTW, with Alex....we DOVE IN at exactly 4:45 AM (done at 6:15) on the pace clock. Show up late and you are staying the water late, period. It that or you are off Senior I. I usually got there 15-20 minutes early and slept in the car until he pulled up. Most days you PRAYED he didn't show so you could leave. We had the "15 minute" rule. If he wasn't there be 5 AM we were GONE!

Charge
October 11th, 2008, 08:43 AM
I would not be on a Masters team that had a late policy.

Life happens, it's nothing personal.


Ditto. We're adults, we have kids and jobs and other things. I pay $40 to have a place to workout. If I need to be 10 minutes late and leave 15 early that's my business.

I do feel bad for the people in the lane I jump into to, but on the other hand they can look at it like this, at least I wasn't there for the whole practice, so they got more room for about 1/2 the practice.

smontanaro
October 11th, 2008, 12:18 PM
I am getting that impression from my swimmers, but showing up almost 45 minutes late for an hour and a half practice is sort of ridiculous, no?

I think there are very few people for whom masters swimming is really and truly the number one thing in their life. For me, though I enjoy swimming, family and work definitely come first. If you can't get to practice because your kid's game went into overtime or you had a late meeting at work, what are you going to do? If life intrudes, I say be grateful they think enough of their time and yours to show up at all.

Skip

anita
October 11th, 2008, 01:34 PM
Perhaps the answer in this question goes back to the belief of whether swimming is an individual or team sport.
Yes, part of it is common courtesy if you're going to "upset" a lane of swimmers who are in the middle of their rhythm. But we're adults and should be able to adapt to changes when necessary.
Our Masters workout is on a white board placed on deck at all times, so anyone can use it at any time. This fosters an atmosphere that is much more welcoming than being greeted by a locked gate.

ALM
October 12th, 2008, 12:09 AM
This is my biggest concern with this. If I am running a full practice and someone jumps in late I will have them swim a warmup which throws off the rest of the group, or throws off the tempo of the practice. I guess I could say that it's just Master's but I hold the program in higher regard than that....expecting too much??

I don't think you would be unreasonable to have rules such as:

--If a swimmer comes in late, and there is an empty lane, he will be asked to warm up in that empty lane. When he is ready he can join his regular lane at whatever place they are in the workout.

--If there isn't an empty lane, the swimmer may get into his regular lane, but he must not impede the set in progress. If he needs to warm up he needs to make sure he stays out of the way of the swimmers who are in the middle of a set (by going last, for example).

--If possible the swimmer should notify his lanemates that he has joined the lane.

Typhoons Coach
October 13th, 2008, 08:06 AM
I don't think you would be unreasonable to have rules such as:

--If a swimmer comes in late, and there is an empty lane, he will be asked to warm up in that empty lane. When he is ready he can join his regular lane at whatever place they are in the workout.

--If there isn't an empty lane, the swimmer may get into his regular lane, but he must not impede the set in progress. If he needs to warm up he needs to make sure he stays out of the way of the swimmers who are in the middle of a set (by going last, for example).

--If possible the swimmer should notify his lanemates that he has joined the lane.

I like those suggestions! Flexible, but conforms to the needs of the overall group!

nkfrench
October 13th, 2008, 12:21 PM
My work location and schedule are such that I have to cut it pretty close and I'm doing well to get in the pool for our practice by the beginning of warmup. In the summer I can only make it on time if I sneak out of work about an hour early. Life would be easier for me if I was consistently arriving to work early.

I have a few options:
* Swim on my own in the morning at a health club if I know I'll be very late.
* Pursue another form of exercise that day (ie, bicycle)
* If I'm really late, ask the coach if I should swim or if I "missed practice"
* If I swim, I do my first few repeats at the back of the lane. They are either just a warmup staying out of everyone's way or jumping into whatever the group is doing (depends on the set). We don't normally have a spare lane but that would be preferable.

Shamboola
October 13th, 2008, 01:31 PM
On my team, most of us hit the pool on time and at most are only few minutes late. If one misses the warmup, they stay at the back of the lane until they are ready to crank it up in a set. We all know each others speeds and make room when appropriate. We also appreciate the friendships that have been forged. Thus, we would all rather have someone show up rather than miss.

That being said. If we had a newbie who stated showing up 45 minutes late for a one hour workout and then got in everyone's way, that is a problem. But I have never seen that happen. All of us are adults and know what is reasonable and what is rude. And we genuinely like each other.

Realistically, each lane seems to have its own culture and set of expectations. The slower swimmers are not out to set the world on fire and seem more relaxed about their wrkout and in a learning mode. As the lanes get faster, with more college level experience etc., there is less talk due to the added intensity of the sets and a greter level of seriousness with the swimmers. So, in a way, the behavior in the lane conforms to the speeds of the swimmers.

If our coach started laying down rules due to the perceived transgressions of one or two, that would not go down well at all. We are all grown up adults and we are doing something that very few are willing to do by throwing ourselves into a pool and swiming hard. In my book, that by itself is enough to allow the extra latitude and respect that makes Masters such a fun choice and not a chore.

Rob

Typhoons Coach
October 13th, 2008, 04:06 PM
My work location and schedule are such that I have to cut it pretty close and I'm doing well to get in the pool for our practice by the beginning of warmup. In the summer I can only make it on time if I sneak out of work about an hour early. Life would be easier for me if I was consistently arriving to work early.

I have a few options:
* Swim on my own in the morning at a health club if I know I'll be very late.
* Pursue another form of exercise that day (ie, bicycle)
* If I'm really late, ask the coach if I should swim or if I "missed practice"
* If I swim, I do my first few repeats at the back of the lane. They are either just a warmup staying out of everyone's way or jumping into whatever the group is doing (depends on the set). We don't normally have a spare lane but that would be preferable.

Thanks for your comment(s)! Since our practice is in the morning, I do have swimmers leaving a bit early to make work/drop kids off at school, etc. We will see if we run into issues with regard to late/no-shows when we open up practices at night. I will bet my last dollar that no matter what we do we will always have a couple of late swimmers in the mix.

Typhoons Coach
October 13th, 2008, 04:10 PM
If our coach started laying down rules due to the perceived transgressions of one or two, that would not go down well at all. We are all grown up adults and we are doing something that very few are willing to do by throwing ourselves into a pool and swiming hard. In my book, that by itself is enough to allow the extra latitude and respect that makes Masters such a fun choice and not a chore.

Rob

Rob, I definitely agree. At this point I have put a "self-start" section into practice for the late-comers. The self-start area tells them what to do for warm-up(s). It has worked this past week very well, and haven't gotten any complaints yet which is a good thing!

Shamboola
October 14th, 2008, 01:55 PM
I appreciate your desire to hear from the swimming community. I have all the respect in the world for swim coaches. Swimming is certianly not a sport for those who want to use it to become wealthy and it flies under the radar except once every four years. Yet, I love the sport and those who care about it.

Swim on, I say!

Rob