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Charge
October 10th, 2008, 06:41 PM
How do they relate to race times?

I did a broken 200 IM in practice the other day, took a 80 second rest between 50's while swimming and easy 50 free. Swam each 50 as i wold in the race. Fly was long and rythmic. Back was mostly arms breathing as much as possible. Breast was all out, free all out.

Went in order:(push starts on all)
27
32
35
26

Any guesses how that might translate to tapered, shaved, race suited, etc...?

Typhoons Coach
October 10th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Depending on how intense the taper and if the taper was done properly, but you can typically take 1.50 - 2.00 off your average 50 time (race time throughout the year). Again, this varies per individual, coach, pool, time in the pool, etc.

Also, that broken practice seems a bit leniant to be thinking about tapering right now...just my opinion!

Keep us updated on your progress, though!

elise526
October 10th, 2008, 07:21 PM
Doing a broken 200 I.M. with 10 seconds rest in-between each 50 and subtracting 30 seconds off the total time (you include the rest in the total time), is a pretty accurate comparison to what you would do in a meet.

If you are looking to get an idea on what you would do in a 50, you need to be taking more rest between each one. Try doing 4 x 50 on 4 minutes(be sure you do an easy swim recovery between each). Ideally you want each swim to be at least a 95% effort. If your best time in a meet is 25 seconds, you want to be within 1.25 seconds of that time in practice on an all-out 50 from a dive.

Tim L
October 10th, 2008, 07:34 PM
It seems like you took a fair bit of rest between the 50s so it might be a stretch to say that you could go significantly faster than that in a tapered race. I can typically match in a meet what I can swim a broken 200IM in practice, but I have not been able to go significantly faster. I typically would take less rest on my broken swims in practice than what you took. Also, the turns can be a drag on your time in a meet versus timing from a push-off.

I suggest that you try the broken IM with less rest in practice and see how that impacts your time. If you can still swim 2:00 with 20 seconds rest between 50s, then you should feel fairly comfortable that you could match the time in a meet.

There are not that many masters swimmers that can go 2:00 or under for a 200IM so that is an excellent swim.

Tim

Syd
October 10th, 2008, 07:41 PM
How do they relate to race times?

I did a broken 200 IM in practice the other day, took a 80 second rest between 50's while swimming and easy 50 free. Swam each 50 as i wold in the race. Fly was long and rythmic. Back was mostly arms breathing as much as possible. Breast was all out, free all out.

Went in order:(push starts on all)
27
32
35
26

Any guesses how that might translate to tapered, shaved, race suited, etc...?

Good question. That would give you an accumulated 200 IM time of 2:00. What is your best 200 IM time? In my experience, I can go 10 - 15 seconds faster on a broken 200 than I can when I swim 200 continuously. That probably has a lot to do with my aerobic capacity not being where it should be. How is your aerobic fitness?

A suggestion: for a more realistic idea of what your 200 time might be try to cut down on the rest interval. I think 80 seconds is too long. That gives you time to do a nice, long relaxed 50 at 40 and still gives you another 40 seconds rest. Try 10 second intervals and report those times.

Lump
October 10th, 2008, 08:40 PM
That is too much time between 50's. Only take 15 maybe and that will give you a better representation of where you'll be. We used to do a lot of broken stuff during tapers when I was at Dynamo in HS and in college. I was alway right on where I was in my big meet for 400 FR or 500 FR.

Charge
October 10th, 2008, 11:41 PM
I knew it was too much rest. Just doing the workout assigned though.

I honestly would be happy if I could get it down to 2:05 in a race. Lifetime best was a 2:08, but that was 15 years ago, haven't swum the 200Im since. I came back to swimming in Feb and have swum mostly lifetime bests since (went from 23.3 to 22.6 in the free, 25.4 to 24.6 in the fly, 1:00 to 58 in the 100 IM, 1:56 to 1:54 in he 200 Free) and have decided to shoot for a sub 2:05 200 IM in California next May.

Aerobically....eh....nothing special. Turns have always been a strength for me.

Thanks for the input guys.

As coaches, when and why do you assign brokens in practice? Close to a taper, during a taper?

elise526
October 11th, 2008, 01:29 AM
I knew it was too much rest. Just doing the workout assigned though.

I honestly would be happy if I could get it down to 2:05 in a race. Lifetime best was a 2:08, but that was 15 years ago, haven't swum the 200Im since. I came back to swimming in Feb and have swum mostly lifetime bests since (went from 23.3 to 22.6 in the free, 25.4 to 24.6 in the fly, 1:00 to 58 in the 100 IM, 1:56 to 1:54 in he 200 Free) and have decided to shoot for a sub 2:05 200 IM in California next May.

Aerobically....eh....nothing special. Turns have always been a strength for me.

Thanks for the input guys.

As coaches, when and why do you assign brokens in practice? Close to a taper, during a taper?

I would consider doing the broken 200 swim right before a taper, and do the broken 100s during the very early part of a taper:

Broken 200s: break at 50 and take 10 seconds rest between each 50
Broken 100s: break at 50 for 10 seconds and 75 for 5 seconds

I coached groups that did distances up to 200s. I really can't speak for the timing (taper or close to taper) on distance broken swims. I do recall, however, that the distance coaches had swimmers take 15 seconds rest between each 100 if they were doing a broken 500.

hofffam
October 11th, 2008, 11:35 AM
I would consider doing the broken 200 swim right before a taper, and do the broken 100s during the very early part of a taper:

Broken 200s: break at 50 and take 10 seconds rest between each 50
Broken 100s: break at 50 for 10 seconds and 75 for 5 seconds

I coached groups that did distances up to 200s. I really can't speak for the timing (taper or close to taper) on distance broken swims. I do recall, however, that the distance coaches had swimmers take 15 seconds rest between each 100 if they were doing a broken 500.

This is very similar to what my coach does. But we usually do 100s broken at the 25 with 5 secs rest. I found the broken swims were very good predictors of race performance.

The time for a 200 broken at 50s with 10 secs rest minus 30 secs ~ race 200
100 broken at 25s with 5 secs rest minus 15 ~ race 100

Rykno
October 11th, 2008, 12:32 PM
in May I did a broken 200 like this

25 + 5 sec rest
50 + 5
50 + 5
50 + 5
25

total time minus 20, gave me a 2:47 SCM. then 3 weeks later I swam a 2:52 LCM. so I think its pretty close to a race time. at least for me 4 months ago.

thursday I did 6 broke 200s the same way on start 4:00. 1-3-5 were breast and 2-4 back and 6 free
the 200's breast I did in 2:40 2:44 and 2:47
the backs I did 2:40 and 2:42
free 2:28

I think I would have done better with a start 5 or 6min, because I can swim a straight 200 free in 2:28. and in Back I am hopping to go under 2:30 in 4 weeks. but the breast stroke ones seem to be close since I am hoping to go just under 2:40

mattson
October 11th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Doing a broken 200 I.M. with 10 seconds rest in-between each 50 and subtracting 30 seconds off the total time (you include the rest in the total time), is a pretty accurate comparison to what you would do in a meet.

What elise said, for the amount of rest between 50s. If you are doing repeats (like 5x200 broken on 3:30), then your time should be within 5-10 seconds of your race time. During taper, with more time between repeats (and fewer of them), you should be at race speed.

Chris Stevenson
October 11th, 2008, 05:18 PM
As coaches, when and why do you assign brokens in practice? Close to a taper, during a taper?

I am not a coach, but we do them throughout the year. Good for developing a feel for race pace, although not necessary always a good lactate tolerance set (IMO).

For myself, broken 200s with 10 sec at each 50 tends to over-predict my race times -- ie, I recover too much during those 10 seconds. Especially true in butterfly/backstroke, less true in freestyle.

tjrpatt
October 11th, 2008, 06:27 PM
At my age group club, we would do broken 200s this way:

Swim a 100, ten seconds rest
Swim a 50, 5 seconds rest
Swim a 50.

Tim L
October 13th, 2008, 02:19 PM
I think you can meet your goal of a 2:05. Your butterfly seems strong so I wonder if you don't have the potential to go a bit better than 2:05 assuming you work on your last 100. I would think if you can get your 200 Free down to 1:50 you can probably be around 2:03 or 2:04 next May.

I rarely do broken swims and usually only do them to see where I am at. My meet time will generally be around 4 seconds slower than my broken swim with 10 seconds rest between 50s. When I am way out from a meet (like now) I might do a broken 200 with 15 to 20 seconds rest and get similar results to when I am tapering and take 10 seconds rest.

Good luck with your training,

Tim