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david.margrave
October 17th, 2008, 12:51 AM
Is this a good exercise for swimmers? I tried it recently and was surprised how weak I was on my non-dominant (right) side, which is also the side I've had some nagging shoulder soreness up until recently.

I have been ignoring my deltoids in my weight training routine up until about a month ago, to go easy on my shoulders. Recently I started doing some exercises that target the deltoids and my shoulder soreness has diminished a lot, so I plan to keep it up and maybe try more exercises.

Rykno
October 17th, 2008, 02:15 AM
our team just brought in a physical therapist that talked about shoulder injuries.

one of the excerises she suggested was front raises, but open your arms to 60 deg and rotate your hand so that your thumb is pointing down.

she also suggested just using bands or very very light weight.

Leonard Jansen
October 17th, 2008, 07:25 AM
our team just brought in a physical therapist that talked about shoulder injuries.

one of the excerises she suggested was front raises, but open your arms to 60 deg and rotate your hand so that your thumb is pointing down.

she also suggested just using bands or very very light weight.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should NEVER lift with your shoulder internally rotated (i.e. thumb down). It can cause impingement problems.

Bad, naughty Swedish female therapist!

-LBJ

SwimStud
October 17th, 2008, 08:15 AM
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should NEVER lift with your shoulder internally rotated (i.e. thumb down). It can cause impingement problems.

Bad, naughty Swedish female therapist!

-LBJ

LBJ is right.
However, you can do it with no more than 5lbs.
The goal with very light weights is to work the RC not the delt.
I agree not to do serious lifting with thumbs down.
However, don't lift up the arms more than 45 degrees from the body.

FlyQueen
October 17th, 2008, 09:14 AM
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should NEVER lift with your shoulder internally rotated (i.e. thumb down). It can cause impingement problems.

Bad, naughty Swedish female therapist!

-LBJ

She must be looking for more clients. When I rehabed my shoulder we did a thumb up exercise with 2lbs weights. That was only after I showed my therapist the range of motion I used on all four strokes. Since you enter the water thumb down essentially in backstroke we did an exercise where I laid on the table and lifted the 2lbs weights thumbs up very slowly.

Thumbs down is bad, bad, bad!!!!

Lump
October 17th, 2008, 09:34 AM
She must be looking for more clients. When I rehabed my shoulder we did a thumb up exercise with 2lbs weights. That was only after I showed my therapist the range of motion I used on all four strokes. Since you enter the water thumb down essentially in backstroke we did an exercise where I laid on the table and lifted the 2lbs weights thumbs up very slowly.

Thumbs down is bad, bad, bad!!!!

Thumb down entry on backstroke?! It should be thumbs up coming out of the water then rotating with the pinky going in the water first as you throw your arm and shoulder back.

We used to do these front raises when I swam 20 years ago, never with heavy weight though. I prefer to do stretch cords (surgical tubing) for shoulder raises now when swimming. I have impingment issues in my right shoulder now from all the lifting I've done in the last 15 "non swimming" years. I've had cordizone shots in it, an MRI and probably should get it scoped per the doctor......but I prefer to soldier on rather than going under the knife and hoping its better, we'll see over time.

BTW, I never had shoulder problems in my 17 years of swimming from age 7-23. It was only AFTER swimming when I started doing other sports (softball, Rugby, lifting) that I started to develop a bad wheel.

geochuck
October 17th, 2008, 09:35 AM
After my knee operation I went to the gym instructor for advise. Sorry to say her advice was way off the wall as far as I was cocerned.

So I went to the hospital physio therapist and after 3 days of her help I could not walk.

I then followed my own plan of not doing anything that would cause pain and everything is fine. I think many of these so called experts really do not know what they are talking about.

I am lucky I have my brother Thurlow to consult with, he is a source of good information that has never failed me. He knows more about the body then anyone I have met. He does live 3000 miles from me but we confer regularly.

I think he will say thumbs up when you use a dumbell but I will check.

Lump
October 17th, 2008, 09:49 AM
After my knee operation I went to the gym instructor for advise. Sorry to say her advice was way off the wall as far as I was cocerned.

So I went to the hospital physio therapist and after 3 days of her help I could not walk.

I then followed my own plan of not doing anything that would cause pain and everything is fine. I think many of these so called experts really do not know what they are talking about.

I am lucky I have my brother Thurlow to consult with, he is a source of good information that has never failed me. He knows more about the body then anyone I have met. He does live 3000 miles from me but we confer regularly.

I think he will say thumbs up when you use a dumbell but I will check.

Like a brilliant doctor told me once "if it hurts, don't do that!". I know my body better than any doctor or therapist so I get what your saying.....kind of take things with a grain of salt.

I'm not gonna set any world records in my comeback to swimming and not really looking to. I want to ENJOY it this time around...yes, I'll train, but I'm not gonna kill my body this time around for the sake of swimming a little faster. Its more about being healthy this time and having a little fun.:wave:

david.margrave
October 17th, 2008, 10:39 AM
The dumbbell front raise I was referring to is done with the hands horizontal, not internally rotated.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBFrontRaise.html

Lump
October 17th, 2008, 02:05 PM
The dumbbell front raise I was referring to is done with the hands horizontal, not internally rotated.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBFrontRaise.html

That one of the ones I do in the gym. Also to the side.

lefty
October 17th, 2008, 03:02 PM
After my knee operation I went to the gym instructor for advise. Sorry to say her advice was way off the wall as far as I was cocerned.

So I went to the hospital physio therapist and after 3 days of her help I could not walk.

I then followed my own plan of not doing anything that would cause pain and everything is fine. I think many of these so called experts really do not know what they are talking about.

George, you are so old-school!

ehoch
October 17th, 2008, 03:02 PM
I do these as well - but I like them better using a cable. The resistance is more even all the way through the excercise. I think you need a full balance of arm and shoulder exercises - can't just focus on the swim muscles.

FlyQueen
October 17th, 2008, 05:11 PM
Thumb down entry on backstroke?! It should be thumbs up coming out of the water then rotating with the pinky going in the water first as you throw your arm and shoulder back.

We used to do these front raises when I swam 20 years ago, never with heavy weight though. I prefer to do stretch cords (surgical tubing) for shoulder raises now when swimming. I have impingment issues in my right shoulder now from all the lifting I've done in the last 15 "non swimming" years. I've had cordizone shots in it, an MRI and probably should get it scoped per the doctor......but I prefer to soldier on rather than going under the knife and hoping its better, we'll see over time.

BTW, I never had shoulder problems in my 17 years of swimming from age 7-23. It was only AFTER swimming when I started doing other sports (softball, Rugby, lifting) that I started to develop a bad wheel.


Pinky is up so thumb is down. You are on a different plain but essentially you are raising your arm at some point with your thumb down.

pwolf66
October 17th, 2008, 05:14 PM
Pinky is up so thumb is down. You are on a different plain but essentially you are raising your arm at some point with your thumb down.


Except that by the time impingement could occur in that motion, your torso should rotate to that side increasing the angle between the arm and the chest to more than 90 degrees, reducing the impingement.

FlyQueen
October 17th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Except that by the time impingement could occur in that motion, your torso should rotate to that side increasing the angle between the arm and the chest to more than 90 degrees, reducing the impingement.

ugh! What I am saying is I did 2lbs lifts mimicing backstroke to strengthen the appropriate muscles ... it worked ... perhaps I am not describing it right ... backstroke should not cause impingment - totally agree. Forget I was talking ...

I do backstroke arms with weights currently 3lbs and rotate so that I am not impinging ...

pwolf66
October 17th, 2008, 05:35 PM
ugh! What I am saying is I did 2lbs lifts mimicing backstroke to strengthen the appropriate muscles ... it worked ... perhaps I am not describing it right ... backstroke should not cause impingment - totally agree. Forget I was talking ...

I do backstroke arms with weights currently 3lbs and rotate so that I am not impinging ...

:hug::kiss1:

FlyQueen
October 17th, 2008, 05:47 PM
:hug::kiss1:

Right back at ya'!

Thrashing Slug
October 17th, 2008, 07:04 PM
The dumbbell front raise I was referring to is done with the hands horizontal, not internally rotated.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBFrontRaise.html

Dude in the video looks like he is using bad technique. Rocking back and forth, using the lower back?

I do several variations of this exercise, but always with small weights (between 8 and 15 lbs.. always warm up with 8). I keep my knees slightly bent, abs tight, and try to move nothing at all except the arm/shoulder doing the lifting. Never a lurching motion. I also like to do this while on a balance board, which targets the knees and ankles at the same time.

Another good one is to raise the weights with your arms extended out to your sides, in a cross formation, then while the weights are fully raised, bring your hands together in front of you, then back down and repeat.

pwolf66
October 17th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Dude in the video looks like he is using bad technique. Rocking back and forth, using the lower back?


That is because the frame rate is slow. The form is fine.