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Shamboola
October 17th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Just curious,

If a person can swim a 10 x 100 meter free set on the 1:35, would you condier that to be slow, medium, fast? Where would that person be in your workout group? Medium, Medium fast lane?

That's swum with no fins, no pull buoy.

Wiht so many swimmers coming in with so many diverse backgrounds of training, competition, success, it will be interesting to see the interpretations.

Thanks,

Rob

mjgold
October 17th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Most of ours are on the 1:10 or the 1:15, so that would be a bit of a break for me.

aquageek
October 17th, 2008, 02:27 PM
That would be a middle level interval on our team.

Chris Stevenson
October 17th, 2008, 02:38 PM
If a person can swim a 10 x 100 meter free set on the 1:35, would you condier that to be slow, medium, fast? Where would that person be in your workout group? Medium, Medium fast lane?

That's swum with no fins, no pull buoy.

Wiht so many swimmers coming in with so many diverse backgrounds of training, competition, success, it will be interesting to see the interpretations.

Assuming LCM, this would be "medium fast" on our team. If it is SCM it would be closer to "medium."

I don't think this is a matter of interpretation, exactly, mostly a matter of the composition of the team. Some teams have an abundance of young/fast studs, for example.

Michael, I have to admit that I've never swum on a masters team (even as a visitor) that has a group that routinely does 1:10 intervals for 100m free repeats, even SCM.

knelson
October 17th, 2008, 02:53 PM
Yeah, I'd say generally a 1:35 interval for SCM is solidly in the 'medium' group. It certainly isn't slow, but definitely wouldn't be fast for a strong team.

ehoch
October 17th, 2008, 02:56 PM
Ahhh - these sets are so popular and I just don't like them - just a personal issue. What is the purpose ? How much rest are you supposed to get ? Is 2 seconds enough - and if so, can you just do flipturns ? Why not just swim a 1000 for time ? Why not go 10x100 with 10 seconds rest and go best average.

Having said - we also do a lot of these, but mostly yards.

Long-course, all of our lane 2 (or group 2) people could make that - and a couple of lane 1 people can kick that :weightlifter:

I think Michael is still learning how to read the pace clock :banana:

geochuck
October 17th, 2008, 02:58 PM
A fast set can be 10 x 100 on 2 minutes which is one of my favorites. Seeing that some of us are really fat and old

Tim L
October 17th, 2008, 02:59 PM
I agree with Chris. Based on our team composition which is mostly strong swimming triathletes and fitness swimmers, 1:35 for LCM or SCM would put you in the medium fast lane. The fast lane would do 1:20, perhaps 1:15 on a good day (with a lot of touch and go near the end of the set).

Our team might be slightly slower on average than most masters teams (that have a higher percentage of competitive swimmers with college swimming backgrounds).

Tim

aquageek
October 17th, 2008, 03:01 PM
Michael, I have to admit that I've never swum on a masters team (even as a visitor) that has a group that routinely does 1:10 intervals for 100m free repeats, even SCM.

Ditto, never, ever.

pwolf66
October 17th, 2008, 03:14 PM
Most of ours are on the 1:10 or the 1:15, so that would be a bit of a break for me.

Um, not in LCM or even SCM. Not in Masters. Never heard of it. Yards? Possible. But either course in meters? Nope. Not for a set of 10.

jnbaker
October 17th, 2008, 03:16 PM
Most of ours are on the 1:10 or the 1:15, so that would be a bit of a break for me.

In another thread, you just said that you swam a 50 SCM free in 30 seconds in a relay at your first meet - and you said that was 7 seconds faster than you've ever gone in practice. Now you are holding 100 Meters in practice in 1:10 or 1:15 ??? If your best 50 in practice is 37, you aren't holding 100's on 1:15, or even 1:35...

First Meet
http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=12264 (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=12264)


The relay was really fun, though. We came in first place in our heat, but I don't even know the overall results. It was a 4x50 free, and I swam my leg 7 seconds faster than I have done at practice.


I swam my leg of the relay in about 30 seconds.

hofffam
October 17th, 2008, 03:19 PM
Only a few in my group could make 10x100 LCM on 1:35. It would be almost completely a touch and go for me and I'm not sure I could do 10.

pwolf66
October 17th, 2008, 03:25 PM
Just curious,

If a person can swim a 10 x 100 meter free set on the 1:35, would you condier that to be slow, medium, fast? Where would that person be in your workout group? Medium, Medium fast lane?


Our fast lane is generally in the 1:30-1:45 range for SCM depending on what type of set, where it is in the workout and what has come before it.

That would be medium-fast or in my words 'are you kidding?'. I'm kinda with Ehoch here. What's the point? Either shorten the # of reps and the interval or lengthen the interval and increase the intensity. But this just seems like unnecessary pain to me.

The Fortress
October 17th, 2008, 03:31 PM
10 x 100 LCM on 1:35 is my team's fast group (2 lanes). We periodically do this set or something similar, but usually on the 1:30. Our fastest swimmers, however, tend to be 40-50+. We don't have a lot of young studs. (Left to my own devices, as ehoch notes, I'd never do this set. I'm not fond of short rest intervals or continuous swimming.)

162 IQ can't read a pace clock?

Midas
October 17th, 2008, 03:45 PM
It's all relative, right? Also it depends on how much effort you put into each one. You could do 10x100 on 3:00 and it be a really tough set if you all-out sprint all 10 of them...

gull
October 17th, 2008, 04:02 PM
10-15 x 100 LCM on 1:30 for our fast lane (young studs like myself), 5 on 1:20 on a really good day.

A great blow chow set is 20 x 100 (scy) on 2:00, holding best possible average.

daveindc
October 17th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Is there some kind of methodology (or could someone suggest won) to rate the difficulty of a set based on your race time? My 50y free time is 25 so what would make up a fast, medium, and slow interval.

pwolf66
October 17th, 2008, 04:17 PM
Is there some kind of methodology (or could someone suggest won) to rate the difficulty of a set based on your race time? My 50y free time is 25 so what would make up a fast, medium, and slow interval.

Actually, using a 50 sprint as a baseline is not the best choice. A better baseline would be to do a 30 minute swim. Then divide 30 by the distance in 100s to get your baseline.

I go 23 in 50y but my speed is MUCH better than my endurance. I struggle with 6x100y Free on 1:15.

abc
October 17th, 2008, 04:40 PM
This set LCM would be medium fast for our team. I would say that most of the masters swimmers that I personally know would fall into this range. Many of these people compete at meets on our team, but they're usually not breaking any records. The select few people on our team who are fairly quick might be able to make a 1:15 interval (long course meters).

quicksilver
October 17th, 2008, 04:59 PM
It's not easy to say who might find a particular set challenging based solely on race times.
Some people are workout swimmers, and don't get much faster at the meets. And others are called sprinters.



my speed is MUCH better than my endurance

Same here. As a kid, I liked to swim at one speed only...sprint.
And that said, I was always content to be towards the end of the lane when we did long repetitive sets.

But some kind of transformation took place at the meets.
My times were disproportionately fast compared to the others who were really working the hard intervals.

FlyQueen
October 17th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Most of ours are on the 1:10 or the 1:15, so that would be a bit of a break for me.

Which course? And then I totally do not believe - while I am not saying "Liar! Li-ar!" I think you are sniffing glue or otherwise confused. :thhbbb: I have serious studs on my team that aren't swimming on 1:10. When someone like Chris or EHoch aren't doing these intervals you know they aren't happening.

Didn't you just start swimming? Are you sure these aren't your 50 intervals?

pwolf66
October 17th, 2008, 05:03 PM
Well it boils down, for me, is that anything that makes me :toohurt: and want to :drown: is a fast set. Which is pretty much anything over 100 or better than a :45 per 50 pace.

hofffam
October 17th, 2008, 05:12 PM
Is there some kind of methodology (or could someone suggest won) to rate the difficulty of a set based on your race time? My 50y free time is 25 so what would make up a fast, medium, and slow interval.


As Pwolfe said - the 50y race time is not very useful to design different kinds of swim sets.

The timed 30 minute swim (T30 test) as he described should establish your aerobic threshold. If you swim 2000 yds in 30 minutes that means your 100 yd average time is 1:30. Add 5 seconds and you have a typical aerobic set like 10x100 or 15x100 on 1:35. Because this set is not 30 minutes you should have to work hard but still have between 5-10 secs rest.

Other variations are the T2000 timed swim. Swim 2000 yds/meters best effort and record the time. Calculate the average time per 100. I did a T2000 in June of this year and my average per 100 was 1:37 per 100 meters. This summer I swam most 100s LCM on 1:40 or 1:45.

Change the set to 5x100 on 5 secs LESS and it changes from an aerobic set to a VO2max set. You should do some active rest, then repeat.

mjgold
October 17th, 2008, 07:28 PM
Um, not in LCM or even SCM. Not in Masters. Never heard of it. Yards? Possible. But either course in meters? Nope. Not for a set of 10.

It's a 25 yard pool. Not everyone gets the same intervals. It's different depending on what lane you are in.

mjgold
October 17th, 2008, 07:30 PM
In another thread, you just said that you swam a 50 SCM free in 30 seconds in a relay at your first meet - and you said that was 7 seconds faster than you've ever gone in practice. Now you are holding 100 Meters in practice in 1:10 or 1:15 ??? If your best 50 in practice is 37, you aren't holding 100's on 1:15, or even 1:35...

First Meet
http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=12264 (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=12264)

While I still think you're a jerk, I made a mistake in reading the original post. So, I'm going to take away what I wrote here. I still think you need something else to do besides try to make a complete stranger seem like a liar.

mjgold
October 17th, 2008, 07:33 PM
Which course? And then I totally do not believe - while I am not saying "Liar! Li-ar!" I think you are sniffing glue or otherwise confused. :thhbbb: I have serious studs on my team that aren't swimming on 1:10. When someone like Chris or EHoch aren't doing these intervals you know they aren't happening.

Didn't you just start swimming? Are you sure these aren't your 50 intervals?

Wow, I'm retarded. I thought he said 10x50. I was wondering why everyone was flipping out. :doh:

Shamboola
October 17th, 2008, 11:28 PM
Great posts everyone.

A couple of points.

I am talking about a long course 50 meter pool. I am 49 and have been back in the pool about one year. I can pretty easily make 10 x 100 frees on the 1:40 and probably make em on the 1:35 with the last 3 having me hit the wall at about 1:25-1:28.

I was thinking it was medium fast speed but I had no real idea.

That being said, 100 frees on the 1:10-1:15 are quite fast and I do not believe I have even seen our faster swimmers do that sort of stuff. But perhaps I have not been looking very hard because they sometimes adjust their lane speed so that it is faster than the coach's intervals on the whiteboard. I could make maybe one or two and then I would crawl out of the pool, curl into a ball, and quietly die.

And I do agree that an even harder set would be all out 100s on the 2:00 or even 2:30. When you have a tighter interval, you tend to get into a tunnel vision sort of rhythm and once your get to 8, it is all downhill. But racing each one gets harder and harder in a way that really plays with my mind and depth of endurance. It tests my form in a way that the shorter interval does not do.

I have never been very confident in my swimming ability and did not swim in college and only swam for two years in high school. I am finally fixing some major stroke flaws and it seem to be allowing me to glide more and not fight myself as I get more and more fatigued. It is a process that is as much a psychological cleansing of my swimming insecurity as much as anything else.

I am still getting acclimated to what is considered a fast v. slow interval in workout. The next lane does 100s on the 1:25. LCM. I am about 2-3 months away from getting there, but wanted to see what all of you thought.

And it really does not mean much if one is concerned about race times. I was always more of a workout swimmer while others would smoke me come race day. So, to each his/her own lane I suppose.

Thanks for the input.

Rob

stillwater
October 18th, 2008, 12:16 AM
When you have a tighter interval, you tend to get into a tunnel vision sort of rhythm and once your get to 8, it is all downhill.

Mind games.

For me, on a set of ten, downhill starts at six, saving somthing for number ten, always trying to make it the fastest.

The all out puke sets I read here aren't my cup of tea. However, I am pretty sure that is an effective way to swim faster. I just don't enjoy that type of exercise.

knelson
October 18th, 2008, 12:45 AM
That being said, 100 frees on the 1:10-1:15 are quite fast and I do not believe I have even seen our faster swimmers do that sort of stuff.

Yeah, that would be very fast long course meters. There are very few masters swimmers who could make 10x100 @ 1:10 long course meters.

Shamboola
October 18th, 2008, 12:53 AM
I have dim memories in my AAU days of doing 20-30 100s on a daily basis but cannot recall the interval. I just remember I was young and dumb and did them without asking why. They really hurt and seemed endless.

I confess that I am an idiot when we start mixing intervals within a set i.e. drop 5 seconds every 100. Let's just say you do not want me to be leading the lane. We did that a few weeks ago and started at 2:00 and did a few and I thought it was pretty easy. Sure enough, we somehow stuck at 1:50 for the rest of them. The faster lane had the same problem. We were all laughing about it and joked about how age can affect your brain.

All I know is if I can make 10 100s LCM on the 1:25, I will feel a sense of accomplishment. (A year ago, I could barely make 4 100s LCM on the 1:50 and literally beached myself on the deck in agony) Perhaps it will mean nothing, but I would like to be able to do that when I turn 50 next April.

Just something to shoot for......

Rob

swim25
October 18th, 2008, 01:20 AM
I love these sets. I don't know why, I guess you just feel real good after you complete it on the interval and I think it is cool to see yourself get into a rhythm and just crunch em out. I'm about a 1:40. They help you keep a pace more then a straight 1000.

sarge
October 18th, 2008, 10:57 AM
1:35 is what I do 100 yards on a good day, when I'm fresh and have a tailwind. It helps if the pool slopes downward.

jnbaker
October 18th, 2008, 01:42 PM
While I still think you're a jerk, I made a mistake in reading the original post.

Sorry. For some reason it really bugs me when people mis-quote times, or report yard times as meters.

You made an honest mistake - sorry for jumping on you about it.

I'm really not a jerk - just a bit anal at times.

osterber
October 20th, 2008, 10:12 AM
The fastest you'd ever see people swimming on our team would be 10 x 100 LCM @ 1:20. It's not a kind of set we do very often. Depending on the focus of the set, you'd probably see us doing 10 x 100 LCM @ 1:25, trying to hold sub 1:15, or 10 @ 1:30, trying to hold even faster. 10 @ 1:20 would be probably 1:15's at the beginning, and turning into touch-and-go before too long.

Remember... while yes, I'd call that a "fast set", it is by no means a "sprint set". If you're a sprinter, that's a deadly set. It's an aerobic threshold set that distance swimmers will do better at.

The sprint set version would be 10 x 100 @ 2:00-or-so, holding 1:10.

-Rick

geochuck
October 20th, 2008, 10:36 AM
I am afraid that I am now a leisurely swimmer who now watches the clock not to do a fast set but swim it not too fast. My sets are now designed so I can finish a set in comfort.

Shamboola
October 20th, 2008, 02:47 PM
George,

You are wise, much wiser than I. I am still getting comfortable with the freedom that comes with Masters.

Rob

Lump
October 20th, 2008, 03:11 PM
2 definitions:

What WAS fast
and
What IS NOW fast


What WAS fast was 20-30 x 100 on :60, or 10 x 100 on :55 SCY. Something like that back in the day.

What IS NOW fast....any 100's on 1:20 or under! Kinda sad!

geochuck
October 20th, 2008, 03:18 PM
A fast set is relative only to the speed of the swimmer. What is a fast set for you will not be the same as what is fast for me. We can only swim within our capabilities.

What was fast for me when I was kinda fast has no bearing on today.





2 definitions:

What WAS fast
and
What IS NOW fast


What WAS fast was 20-30 x 100 on :60, or 10 x 100 on :55 SCY. Something like that back in the day.

What IS NOW fast....any 100's on 1:20 or under! Kinda sad!