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bbpolhill
October 25th, 2008, 10:17 AM
I'm not a big fan of short course meters meets. Maybe its my American bias, but I prefer the USA Swimming season format with two fairly distinct seasons - SCY (Fall thru Spring) and LCM (Spring/Summer). With limited meets to participate in (especially in the Northeast), I would prefer that the options were not even more diluted by short course meters meets. I would think that many Masters swimmers in the US (who mostly grew up in 25 yard pools) would agree. Just wondering what everybody else thinks.

pwolf66
October 25th, 2008, 11:40 AM
As much as I like SCY, I think we need to get with the rest of the world and go SCM and LCM.

The Fortress
October 25th, 2008, 12:16 PM
I'm not a big fan of short course meters meets. Maybe its my American bias, but I prefer the USA Swimming season format with two fairly distinct seasons - SCY (Fall thru Spring) and LCM (Spring/Summer). With limited meets to participate in (especially in the Northeast), I would prefer that the options were not even more diluted by short course meters meets. I would think that many Masters swimmers in the US (who mostly grew up in 25 yard pools) would agree. Just wondering what everybody else thinks.

I prefer SCM. And it's our only chance to compete virtually against the rest of the world. In fact, I feel like the vast majority of masters meets are in SCY. I'd like more SCM and more LCM meets and a longer LCM season. Our LCM season is really summer only here unless you swim in USA meets.

knelson
October 25th, 2008, 12:41 PM
As much as I like SCY, I think we need to get with the rest of the world and go SCM and LCM.

Where are all those SCM pools going to come from, though? I think the reason most meets are SCY is by far most pools are SCY.

Paul Smith
October 25th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Love SCM and glad that we have such a great network of regional meets running that format.

pwolf66
October 25th, 2008, 12:48 PM
Where are all those SCM pools going to come from, though? I think the reason most meets are SCY is by far most pools are SCY.


True and that is a limiting factor but there are frequently SCY meets held at facilities that can accomodate SCM too. I'm not saying that we can eliminate SCY, that can not happen until there are enough SCM facilities to fill in but there can be a _much_ lower emphasis on SCY in the US that is there currently.

Rykno
October 25th, 2008, 01:30 PM
we don't have SCY over here, so getting rid of SCM would mean only LCM.....no thanks ;)

The Fortress
October 25th, 2008, 01:45 PM
True and that is a limiting factor but there are frequently SCY meets held at facilities that can accomodate SCM too.

That's why I've suggested the Sprint Classic be held in SCM instead of SCY. But there is a perception that SCY is more popular. The meet director may be surveying people tomorrow on this issue.

CreamPuff
October 25th, 2008, 03:45 PM
Here is why I hate SCM.

I don't train it EVER. All the pools in my area are set up SCY or LCM.

Also, there are very few SCM meets in my area. There are NONE in GA this year. I have to travel 3.5 to 4 hours to Columbia, SC and 10 hrs (if driving) to Coral Springs to get 2 days meets.

Poor accessibility - for training and meets.

Here's why I like it. It's easier to place high in Top 10. I think others suffer from the training and meet options as well.

Allen Stark
October 25th, 2008, 04:00 PM
My favorite is LCM,but at least here it is easier to find SCM meets.I prefer SCM to SCY because there is a little more opportunity to swim instead of just turn.With SCM you can compare yourself to the rest of the world,where as only the US swims SCY.I also like our having 3 separate seasons.

Chris Stevenson
October 25th, 2008, 04:12 PM
It would be terribly provincial of us to get rid of SCM. I would prefer to get rid of SCY...if most of our pools (and Kirk pointed out) weren't 25yd.

I wish there were more SCM meets. I also like resting for a meet in December, otherwise there is too long a time between rested meets in August and May. (Part of that is because our SCY nationals are SO LATE in the season...I wouldn't care about resting in December if nats were in March.)

Interestingly, our local summer league swimming is mostly SCM. Kind of odd.

I also like swimming/racing SCM a little better than SCY. Turns are still important but you have a little more time between them to get into a rhythm.

aquageek
October 25th, 2008, 04:27 PM
It will be a great day when all SCY pools are dug up and replaced with SCM.

aquaFeisty
October 25th, 2008, 04:36 PM
I love SCM. Where else does a paltry non-age group swimmer such as myself stand a shot of a 10th place Top Ten time? :D

swimshark
October 26th, 2008, 07:23 AM
I love SCM. Where else does a paltry non-age group swimmer such as myself stand a shot of a 10th place Top Ten time? :D

Same here!

bbpolhill
October 26th, 2008, 08:20 AM
Interesting responses...not what I would have thought.

I guess I wasn't looking for idealism, but rather practicality.

It would seem that without the backing of USA Swimming, NCAA Swimming, and a turnaround in the facility availability - the US will be linked to yards for some time. It would be interesting to find out what percentage of all pools in the US could host LCM, SCM, and SCY meets. In addition, I would like to see those statistics by LMSC or LSC and by pool age.

Does anyone foresee USA Swimming or NCAA swimming ever moving away from SCY?

USMSarah
October 26th, 2008, 08:53 AM
I guess I wouldn't mind it if I had a pool to practice SCM in... it's a mental thing when you switch courses and you didn't train in the appropriate pool.

stillwater
October 26th, 2008, 12:04 PM
Changing short course distances is more than mental. Well, at least for me. I perform the way I practice.

When changing distances I misjudge turns, splits, and energy expenditure. I have a good 87 yard fly in me. Short course meters just brings out my failings to a greater extent.

I still like the distance changes. I crack myself up when my body is expecting the wall of relief, yet it is so far far away.

stillwater
October 26th, 2008, 12:10 PM
Not to change the subject but, do any of you know the results for the 2008 TYR Masters Grand Prix?

some_girl
October 26th, 2008, 12:10 PM
Since one of our pools is SCM, I love swimming it. We always have a leg up.

Ken Classen
October 26th, 2008, 12:49 PM
It will be a great day when all SCY pools are dug up and replaced with SCM.

It would even be a better day if all the SCY & SCM pools were dug up and replaced with a LMC pool that can easily be configured to SCY or SCM.

jim clemmons
October 26th, 2008, 02:17 PM
I don't notice any significant difference betwen scy and scm. I do notice that some folks who prefer shorter distances tend to fade away in scm 200's since it's (almost) equivalent to swimming a 225 scy.

Brian Stack
October 26th, 2008, 03:39 PM
Not to change the subject but, do any of you know the results for the 2008 TYR Masters Grand Prix?
Actually, you did change the subject (aka, threadcrapping) but you could try a search to find their website:http://www.TYRgrandprix.com/ and look for results there . . .:dunno:

pwb
October 26th, 2008, 04:28 PM
Love SCM and glad that we have such a great network of regional meets running that format.

Agree 100%. I like having three seasons, in effect. Plus, given my attention span these days, I don't think I could focus and train from September through May without a significant peak event; the fact that the December peak event is in SCM keeps the variety that much higher.

Midas
October 26th, 2008, 05:56 PM
It would even be a better day if all the SCY & SCM pools were dug up and replaced with a LMC pool that can easily be configured to SCY or SCM.

I agree with this sentiment! I don't mind the SCM season, though I consider it a bit of a "third leg" season. I don't taper for it or anything, but I do enjoy racing at that distance (as it's something "different"). I am used to thinking in SCY and definitely think of that as my "prime" season. LCM is its own thing and I enjoy that too (plus, it's what the Olympians compete in). Having more LCM pools would be awesome. Having said that, we probably should actively move towards SCM as the standard for non-LCM competitions.... By "we" I mean USAS and NCAA--Masters should not lead that charge. After all, we mostly grew up in SCY pools and there's no reason to force us old dogs to learn the new tricks first.

elise526
October 26th, 2008, 06:20 PM
Here is why I hate SCM.

I don't train it EVER. All the pools in my area are set up SCY or LCM.

Also, there are very few SCM meets in my area. There are NONE in GA this year. I have to travel 3.5 to 4 hours to Columbia, SC and 10 hrs (if driving) to Coral Springs to get 2 days meets.

Poor accessibility - for training and meets.

Here's why I like it. It's easier to place high in Top 10. I think others suffer from the training and meet options as well.

My sentiments exactly. Also, my turns stink, so my SCM times are about the same as my LCM times. I would have to drive at least 2 hours to do a SCM meet. Let's celebrate being American and keep the SCY meets.

stillwater
October 26th, 2008, 06:43 PM
Thanks Brian,

I went to http://www.tyrgrandprix.org/ and didn't find what I was looking for.

I guess I'll keep googling stuff till it shows up somewhere.

Brian Stack
October 26th, 2008, 10:42 PM
Thanks Brian,

I went to http://www.tyrgrandprix.org/ and didn't find what I was looking for.

I guess I'll keep googling stuff till it shows up somewhere.
Try the link in my post, that will get you there, just click on the link.

Doug Adamavich
October 27th, 2008, 10:35 AM
I am all about SCM and LCM since they are international standards. It would not bother me at all if SCY pools were re-done to become SCM pools. After all, many of the new pools being built these days are SCM...

A longer LCM season would be welcomed too but since most LCM pools in the US are outdoors, this is a problem in colder climes. Oh well, don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

On a side note, not even the British use Imperial measurements anymore and use SI instead...

SI=Systeme Internacionale or the Metric System

ensignada
October 27th, 2008, 10:51 AM
As early as 1972 (when I was in 2nd grade), we were told that we needed to learn the metric system as the US would soon be switching to it. Still waiting here. I make sure, however, that my daughter can judge temperatures and distances (I still have difficulty with volume) in both systems.

I think we're stuck with SCY because of the pools built to that spec, but I can't imagine why new pools wouldn't be built SCM. I'm fortunate that I have both available to swim in.

bbpolhill
October 27th, 2008, 11:15 AM
...I can't imagine why new pools wouldn't be built SCM....

Building a new pool in the US, if you want to host age group meets, high school meets, and college meets you have to have a SCY option. Perhaps you can build a SCM pool and have a removable bulkhead to close the gap. I'm not sure any pool operators are looking for that headache either.

I agree with the idea that we should be moving to a SCM standard, but I will be dead and buried long before that occurs. Maybe another idea would be to have a short course meters season that is a subset of the short course season. In other words, have SCM run from Sept to Dec and SCY run from Sept to May. LCM exclusively from May to August. Maybe it's already like that (I don't really know). Over time and when pool and meet availability the schedules could migrate to a SCM/LCM like the rest of the world. What's the swim season schedule in non-US locations?

TheGoodSmith
October 27th, 2008, 11:56 AM
I would say this discussion is moot considering Mark Schubert's position and actions regarding short course swimming in general.


John Smith

bbpolhill
October 27th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I would say this discussion is moot considering Mark Schubert's position and actions regarding short course swimming in general.


John Smith

Could you expand on that? I am not familiar with Mark Schubert's position.

Michelina
October 27th, 2008, 02:39 PM
I have to say after swimming in a SCM meet this weekend... I am a fan. I am not a great SCY swimmer (bad starts / bad turns) and am mostly a distance person... so I will take the longer pool any time. More swimming vs turns any day.

imspoiled
October 27th, 2008, 03:28 PM
Sorry you're not a fan, but please don't ruin it for the rest of us!

Taking a few minutes to feel out the timing of turns is part of the charm of SCM swimming. When I'm in shape, it doesn't feel any different than any race I'm prepared to swim as SCY, and it's a nice change of pace for the fall season. SCM helps me ease out of LCM mode into SCY mode--lots more turns, but still more good swimming in between them!

TheGoodSmith
October 27th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Could you expand on that? I am not familiar with Mark Schubert's position.


Mark's position throughout the years has consistently been one emphasizing Long Course over Short Course. He was one of the 1st pioneers of mega yardage and over traning in the 1970s. The US short course nationals were moved from the Spring to the end of the calendar year partly because of his position (or shall we say opposition). Some feel from his comments and history that he is equally biased against sprinting vs. middle distance and distance swimming. During his coaching career, a much greater portion of his success was derived from 200s and above as opposed to the 50s and 100s.


John Smith

bbpolhill
October 27th, 2008, 03:42 PM
Sorry you're not a fan, but please don't ruin it for the rest of us!




How exactly would I be ruining it for the rest of you? I am only soliciting opinions for discussion purposes and to get an idea of what the Masters community feels about the SCM Season. It has nothing to do with actually swimming the distance. It's the lack of meets and general apathy in the US towards the standard that turns me off about the season.

pwolf66
October 27th, 2008, 03:55 PM
It's the lack of meets and general apathy in the US towards the standard that turns me off about the season.

Has it occurred to you that the season length and/or apathy may be due to the fact that the US is SCY oriented due to the predominance of SCY pools so facilities that _could_ host SCM are busy hosting SCY?

imspoiled
October 27th, 2008, 04:01 PM
How exactly would I be ruining it for the rest of you? I am only soliciting opinions for discussion purposes and to get an idea of what the Masters community feels about the SCM Season. It has nothing to do with actually swimming the distance. It's the lack of meets and general apathy in the US towards the standard that turns me off about the season.

Sorry. I got the impression you wanted to do away with SCM. It's the novelty that makes it interesting, IMO.

jim clemmons
October 27th, 2008, 04:07 PM
How exactly would I be ruining it for the rest of you? I am only soliciting opinions for discussion purposes and to get an idea of what the Masters community feels about the SCM Season. It has nothing to do with actually swimming the distance. It's the lack of meets and general apathy in the US towards the standard that turns me off about the season.

Brad,

What apathy? Pacific's not apathetic towards SCM. We have almost as many SCM meets as SCY which are both more than LCM. LCM seems to be our season of "not enuf". I think we had over 400 at our SCM Champs two weeks ago.

stillwater
October 27th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Has it occurred to you that the season length and/or apathy may be due to the fact that it's an it's an SCY world due to the predominance of SCY pools so facilities that _could_ host SCM are busy hosting SCY? October 27th, 2008 02:42 PM

It is not a short course yards world.



He was one of the 1st pioneers of mega yardage and over traning in the 1970s.


I finally know where the blame lies for having to swim 12,000 plus meters a day as a pre-teen. Curse you Mr. Shubert, curse you.

pwolf66
October 27th, 2008, 04:35 PM
It is not a short course yards world.


Well, if one's world is the US, it is.

My appologies for inaccuracy.

bbpolhill
October 27th, 2008, 04:35 PM
Brad,

What apathy? Pacific's not apathetic towards SCM. We have almost as many SCM meets as SCY which are both more than LCM. LCM seems to be our season of "not enuf". I think we had over 400 at our SCM Champs two weeks ago.

I made the point earler in the thread that there may be a regional bias as well. I wondered what the statistics were surrounding SCM/SCY/LCM pools on an LMSC or LSC basis. I am in the Northeast and there is probably fewer facilities available to host SCM meets than you would find on the west coast.

Many of the long time swimmers that I am exposed to almost totally disregard SCM. In fact, one swimmer on my team found out that an upcoming meet is going to be SCM rather than SCY as he thought and will probably not participate. I am impressionable novice to the sport and have only come across apathy towards SCM.

Importantly, the apathy extends well beyond Masters swimmers. Ask age group swimmers what their best SCM times are or what they think of SCM and you might imagine the negative responses you will get. As I have suggested, the root of the issue is that the standard is not embraced and is barely acknowledged by age groupers and college swimmers - the future Masters generation. I don't see where the US support for SCM is going to come from and thus find it hard to embrace myself.

bbpolhill
October 27th, 2008, 04:44 PM
Has it occurred to you that the season length and/or apathy may be due to the fact that the US is SCY oriented due to the predominance of SCY pools so facilities that _could_ host SCM are busy hosting SCY?

No, I did not. But, I'm also not convinced that's significant.

I know of few pools that could host both a SCM meet or a SCY meet, but not a LCM meet. The LCM pools in our area are conforming to the season, but there are very few of these pools.

jim clemmons
October 27th, 2008, 04:58 PM
Many of the long time swimmers that I am exposed to almost totally disregard SCM. In fact, one swimmer on my team found out that an upcoming meet is going to be SCM rather than SCY as he thought and will probably not participate. I am impressionable novice to the sport and have only come across apathy towards SCM.

Importantly, the apathy extends well beyond Masters swimmers. Ask age group swimmers what their best SCM times are or what they think of SCM and you might imagine the negative responses you will get. As I have suggested, the root of the issue is that the standard is not embraced and is barely acknowledged by age groupers and college swimmers - the future Masters generation. I don't see where the US support for SCM is going to come from and thus find it hard to embrace myself.

Maybe I'm a little simple sometimes :dunno: but to me it doesn't matter what others may or may not feel - it only matterrs how I feel about it and then I need to try and gently persuade others to feel the same way - without being overbearing about it. Just because others are apathetic to SCM doesn't mean you have to follow suit. Be a leader and show them there's more to life than SCY and LCM.

bbpolhill
October 27th, 2008, 05:17 PM
Maybe I'm a little simple sometimes :dunno: but to me it doesn't matter what others may or may not feel - it only matterrs how I feel about it and then I need to try and gently persuade others to feel the same way - without being overbearing about it. Just because others are apathetic to SCM doesn't mean you have to follow suit. Be a leader and show them there's more to life than SCY and LCM.

Hmmm...

I am not apathetic about SCM nor am I against the standard itself, I dislike the season because there is widespread disregard from the US swimming community as a whole (not just Masters swimmers). It would seem that Masters swimmers like it alot more than non-Masters swimmers.

Interestingly, I hosted and ran a SCM masters meet last year and it was modestly attended. A number of the people participated thinking it was a SCY pool (believe it or not). The attitude as a whole however was that people were uninterested in even their own performances because they had difficulty comparing it to past performances. You have to say at least I tried. Maybe some people are just not born to be leaders. :rolleyes:

jim clemmons
October 27th, 2008, 06:28 PM
Hmmm...

I am not apathetic about SCM nor am I against the standard itself, I dislike the season because there is widespread disregard from the US swimming community as a whole (not just Masters swimmers). It would seem that Masters swimmers like it alot more than non-Masters swimmers.

Interestingly, I hosted and ran a SCM masters meet last year and it was modestly attended. A number of the people participated thinking it was a SCY pool (believe it or not). The attitude as a whole however was that people were uninterested in even their own performances because they had difficulty comparing it to past performances. You have to say at least I tried. Maybe some people are just not born to be leaders. :rolleyes:

Sounds more like you don't dislike the season whatsoever - maybe just the dislikers themselves? Or the feeling others may have about it? Know what I mean? I think I know where you're coming from though.

bbpolhill
October 27th, 2008, 07:05 PM
Sounds more like you don't dislike the season whatsoever - maybe just the dislikers themselves? Or the feeling others may have about it? Know what I mean? I think I know where you're coming from though.

Now I think we're getting on the same page. I guess I don't like the idea that it feels unimportant...kind of "why bother if nobody else seems to care".

david.margrave
October 30th, 2008, 01:37 AM
Are they still building 25 yard pools these days?

mrubacky
October 7th, 2013, 05:10 PM
I used to swim with NEM and there's two great SCM meets in New England. The Leaf Peepers meet in VT (pool is 25y x 25m) and BU. I did these every year I was in New England. I also found that I usually didn't notice the difference in distance.

dolu
October 9th, 2013, 08:51 AM
we don't have SCY over here, so getting rid of SCM would mean only LCM.....no thanks ;)

:applaud:

chowmi
October 9th, 2013, 12:20 PM
How exactly would I be ruining it for the rest of you? I am only soliciting opinions for discussion purposes and to get an idea of what the Masters community feels about the SCM Season. It has nothing to do with actually swimming the distance. It's the lack of meets and general apathy in the US towards the standard that turns me off about the season.

HAHAHA!!! SCM is the adjective and SEASON is the noun! Reminds me of hot buttered flavored topping on my popcorn. Topping is the noun, and butter is an adjective. YUCK! Or rather, YUM!

I train year round SCM so horray for me, but really, who cares about you chowmi, which is what everyone is thinking whilst reading this post.

I am not so concerned about any SEASON, but rather if I am free that weekend, the order of events, and ample free and up close parking. Hopefully i'm not bloating which seems to be a nearly constant steady-state, but as meatloaf says, 2 out of 3 ain't bad!

I like SCM SEASON because there will be some opportunity to swim in the "1st half" of the long stretch during traditional SCY season, with an extra opportunity for top tens given it's another course. Plus if you plan to swim some meets, it keeps you from going to the dark side of getting completely out of shape or not squelching into your fast suit over the Halloween/Thanksgiving/Winter Holiday continuous 3 month feeding frenzy.

__steve__
October 9th, 2013, 03:55 PM
I like SCM SEASON I like SC (.)

Though I might be better conditioned during LC, it is then that my reflexes get fried and I have to readjust to having the necessary wall of leverage with SC. The only difference between SC Y and M for me is one breath.

pwb
October 9th, 2013, 05:34 PM
Training in Arizona, I LOVE the SCM season because it is the best time of year to train here between ~September and late November -- the heat has finally dissipated so swimming mid-day is feasible, but the 30-something mornings and chilly evenings are yet to appear, so swimming at those times are also great. Plus, as our only indoor competition pool is at like a million mile altitude (Flagstaff), we can also have outdoor meets in the fall where you don't fry (May to August) or freeze (December to March).

Oh yeah, April's also nice for meets here, but then it's SCY and you can't measure yourself up against the Germans, French, Aussies and ROW.

gdanner
October 12th, 2013, 09:21 AM
We've had a SCM meet in our LMSC for three years in a row now. It's a walled pool, so they wouldn't be able to host the meet otherwise (or well, it wouldn't really count for anything). Added competitive opportunities are always a good thing. We've had our difficulties getting people to show up though; I don't know if that's because it's SCM or due to being "early" in the season (October) and the fact that it's an older 6 lane pool.

Aymese
October 14th, 2013, 03:50 PM
In case you are interested, there is a SCM meet in Georgia called the St. Nick's meet on December 14th this year at GA Tech.

Michael Heather
October 16th, 2013, 09:55 AM
I like swimming SCM meets, but have a slightly different observation than some.

When USMS added the SCM season in the late 1980s, there was a significant downtime in training after LCM nationals (usually early Aug) and SCY Nationals (historically around Memorial day, but much earlier lately). People had some time off and made use of their lives outside of swimming.

The trend now is a 24 hour news cycle, so why not have a constant swimming cycle? I am not sure getting rid of the SCM season is at any level possible or even reasonable to imagine. Doesn't matter much anyway, since no one knows who is standing next to them. Everyone has their faces buried in smart phones.

Training in SCM has little to do with performance in meets. I train LCM extensively (80+%) and have found that it does not harm my SCY meet times. I miss practicing turns, so I make the most of the LC turns.

Many new pools are made oversquare, 25Mx25yds, unless they are waterparks. Then it is usually 50Mx25Y.

orca1946
October 17th, 2013, 04:00 PM
Maybe 30 years ago, when the USA was "trying" to enter in metrics ,pools would have been built, but now that we have said "kiss off" to the rest of the world, pools will remain without change in the USA!

Midas
October 21st, 2013, 12:19 PM
This thread is a blast from the past! I may have weighed in back in the day but I'll weigh in again as my views have probably changed over the years.

As an age grouper, most of my High School meets were in SCM and I was indifferent as between SCY and SCM. As an adult, I definitely prefer SCY and perform better in SCY on a relative basis (relative to how I performed as an age grouper, which is still what I primarily compare my current times to). I think this is because I'm not nearly in the shape I was as a kid. So the extra distance in those 200's (and sadly even 100's) is not welcome (especially if I still have to make the same amount of turns (which I'm not great at)). On the other hand, I like LCM because you cut down on the turns. But SCM seems like the worst of both worlds.

Also, I'm not an elite swimmer and have no business comparing myself against the rest of the world. I'm happy to compare myself against just other Americans and there's no better course to do that than SCY since that's the most prevalent.

Of course, I voted (way back in 2008) to keep the SCM season and I stick by that for all the reasons people are articulating. No reason to jettison the season.

I think the more interesting poll question would have been: If there were 2 meets on a given weekend, equally distant from where you live, and one was SCY and the other SCM, all other factors being equal which would you choose? I have to think most competitive masters swimmers in the US would pick SCY, even if some of our more outspoken elite swimmers on this board might choose otherwise.

Allen Stark
October 21st, 2013, 03:10 PM
This thread is a blast from the past! I may have weighed in back in the day but I'll weigh in again as my views have probably changed over the years.

As an age grouper, most of my High School meets were in SCM and I was indifferent as between SCY and SCM. As an adult, I definitely prefer SCY and perform better in SCY on a relative basis (relative to how I performed as an age grouper, which is still what I primarily compare my current times to). I think this is because I'm not nearly in the shape I was as a kid. So the extra distance in those 200's (and sadly even 100's) is not welcome (especially if I still have to make the same amount of turns (which I'm not great at)). On the other hand, I like LCM because you cut down on the turns. But SCM seems like the worst of both worlds.

Also, I'm not an elite swimmer and have no business comparing myself against the rest of the world. I'm happy to compare myself against just other Americans and there's no better course to do that than SCY since that's the most prevalent.

Of course, I voted (way back in 2008) to keep the SCM season and I stick by that for all the reasons people are articulating. No reason to jettison the season.

I think the more interesting poll question would have been: If there were 2 meets on a given weekend, equally distant from where you live, and one was SCY and the other SCM, all other factors being equal which would you choose? I have to think most competitive masters swimmers in the US would pick SCY, even if some of our more outspoken elite swimmers on this board might choose otherwise.
All things being equal,I'd rather go to the SCM meet.Selfishly,that's because I'm better comparatively at SCM.

krebert
October 4th, 2014, 04:21 PM
I would pick the meet with the distance event. And if they both had distance events, then I'd pick the one with the longer distance.

I just like to swim and I like to compete. I don't care whether the pool is SCY, SCM, LCM or a lake - I just want to swim and I want to win!

pwb
October 5th, 2014, 11:41 PM
If there were 2 meets on a given weekend, equally distant from where you live, and one was SCY and the other SCM, all other factors being equal which would you choose?If all other factors truly were equal (e.g., pool quality, depth of competition, order of events, etc.), I'd choose SCM because even though I mostly train SCM, it's still a bit of a novelty to me after all those years of SCY and still has that 'new car' smell vs. the musty, old odor of SCY.

tjrpatt
October 6th, 2014, 09:01 AM
What a horrible poll! I love SCM. Besides, it is still relatively new to me since I only did 50 and 100s in SCM as a child in summer league. Plus, it gives some swimmers a chance to do Lifetime best times! Of course, LCM and OW are still much better, :)

realAlbertan
October 6th, 2014, 09:57 PM
SCY is why I will probably never attend USMS spring nationals. I usually make the FINA top 10 and yards are a waste of my time unless the trip south is 100% free.

AJS62680
October 6th, 2014, 11:07 PM
SCM is a world standard, so it would be nice to get on the same page. That said, swimming SCY doesn't seem to hurt American swimmers in international competition. As far as the excuse about not swimming SCM because of lack of SCM training; I don't get it. The only difference I notice is the time. You can train in a SCY pool and have great success at a SCM meet. It may be a slight adjustment for backstrokers, but that can be easily simulated.

SLOmmafan
October 8th, 2014, 06:23 PM
I have never competed in a SCM pool, so my only issue is lack of realistic time expectations vs. My SCY and LCM times.

pwb
October 9th, 2014, 09:24 AM
I have never competed in a SCM pool, so my only issue is lack of realistic time expectations vs. My SCY and LCM times.
Don't use converters and don't worry about your times in SCY or LCM. Just race SCM and you'll set a whole new set of baseline best times.

orca1946
October 9th, 2014, 10:31 AM
Very dew s c M pools are are Illinois to hold such a meet.