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inflictfreedom
November 13th, 2008, 05:03 PM
I'm trying to get my arm reach more correct in freestyle ... so, I'm not sure where my arm should be (or where i should direct it?) as in enters the water through the reach and ending at the catching of the water with my hand.
...did that make sense?

Anyway, i've found that sometimes I direct my reach a little away from my head, and other times I'll focus it to be directly in front of my head ... they both feel okay, but I should pick one or the other ...

Also, i breath on my right side ... and i feel like I don't reach far enough/wait before the pull ... how long should a proper glide be?

Typhoons Coach
November 14th, 2008, 09:48 AM
Ok, so what you're asking is where in relation to your body (shoulder and head) should your hand enter the water when you swim freestyle? Just want to clarify.

inflictfreedom
November 14th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Ok, so what you're asking is where in relation to your body (shoulder and head) should your hand enter the water when you swim freestyle? Just want to clarify.

yup

Redbird Alum
November 14th, 2008, 01:04 PM
I'm trying to get my arm reach more correct in freestyle ... and i feel like I don't reach far enough/wait before the pull ... how long should a proper glide be?

Glide? Glide? Are we talking freestyle here? I am always after my kids that "riding" on the top of the pull is not going to get them anywhere...

inflictfreedom
November 14th, 2008, 01:12 PM
Glide? Glide? Are we talking freestyle here? I am always after my kids that "riding" on the top of the pull is not going to get them anywhere...

ha ha, maybe glide is the wrong word. I always thought it was being efficient ... but really, it's bad?

Redbird Alum
November 14th, 2008, 01:17 PM
I can't imagine where the glide would be or what purpose it would serve. (with the exception of the kids that are breathing both out and in above the surface, of course, which I also preach against at every age.)

inflictfreedom
November 14th, 2008, 01:23 PM
... okay, okay I think what i'm trying to say with glide is how long should I keep my arm straight before I begin a to pull it feels like i'm gliding ... but i'm still pulling/pushing with the other arm.

ehoch
November 14th, 2008, 02:01 PM
Eric - there is not one correct answer. There are many great swimmers that catch as soon as they enter the water -- there is basically zero glide. There are just as many great swimmers that swim a semi catch-up stroke, they will glide for a while (you better have a good kick for this) -- then there are also a lot of swimmers that in a way do both, one arm is close to catch-up and the other starts the stroke very quickly (the loopy stroke - like Phelps).

So - without seeing your stroke - there is no right answer :)

knelson
November 14th, 2008, 02:17 PM
I agree with ehoch that there is no one answer about how much glide you need. However, I do think when your arm enters the water you should be thinking about driving it down to the proper catch position.

inflictfreedom
November 14th, 2008, 02:28 PM
hm, I need to find some underwater vids ... I want to see examples of body position at full extension. ... youtube. ... actually ...

http://www.onetri.com/total-immersion-freestyle-made-easy-drill-cards-p-3175.html

is this a good example of where the arm should be at full extension? (photo 1) The arm doesn't look quite straight ahead.

knelson
November 14th, 2008, 03:12 PM
is this a good example of where the arm should be at full extension? (photo 1) The arm doesn't look quite straight ahead.

Yes, that's what I mean. The arm is fully extended, but maybe a foot or so underwater and poised to begin the catch without a lot of wasted effort. Pushing down on the water doesn't move you forward, after all. You might as well use your arm's mometum from the recovery to drive it down to the catch position.

thewookiee
November 14th, 2008, 03:56 PM
I would think that you want to be a direct line or slightly wider than your shoulder, but not in front of the head.

If you go to www.goswim.tv, there is a new video of Olympian Scott Tucker swimming. You will see that if you draw a straight line from his shoulder to where his hand enters the water, that it is right in line there.

inflictfreedom
November 14th, 2008, 04:24 PM
Okay, great thanks. I'll work on that today. Great video! Totally forgot about that site.

inflictfreedom
November 14th, 2008, 04:32 PM
Hm ... now I need to learn how to make it all look effortless. Scott Tucker's swim is so relaxed ... like he just woke up from a nap.

mjgold
November 14th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Haha, that's comforting to see because that's how I swim when I just do it--the big windmill recovery and pretty much the same underwater technique. My coaches yell at me because of my recovery and I don't keep my hands way out to my sides the whole time. I'm glad to see that some top swimmers do that. When I swim the way my coaches want, I get similar times, but I have to take more strokes and expend more energy I think. Swimming this way lets me go 25 yards in 12-15 strokes, while swimming the way my coaches want takes 16-20.

nhc
November 14th, 2008, 06:48 PM
Is straight arm recovery (windmill) easilier to cause shoulder injury than high elbow recovery?

mjgold
November 14th, 2008, 06:56 PM
I feel more strain on my shoulder using the high elbow than I do with the windmill. With the high elbow, my shoulder pops out and gets sore after a few hundred yards.

Typhoons Coach
November 14th, 2008, 07:28 PM
Is straight arm recovery (windmill) easilier to cause shoulder injury than high elbow recovery?

In my personal opinion, what causes shoulder injury is swimming with poor technique for the stroke that you "choose" to swim and an muscle imbalance in the shoulders. I don't know if that makes sense, but it does on a Friday night just after coaching kids for 3 hours...sanity, anyone?

thewookiee
November 14th, 2008, 08:41 PM
Is straight arm recovery (windmill) easilier to cause shoulder injury than high elbow recovery?


If the straight arm or a more rounded recovery(like what tucker is doing in the early parts of the clip) work for a swimmer, then "no" it doesn't cause injury.

A high elbow may work some, but the movement maybe be hurtful for others. Same is true for straight/ rounded. We each have to find the one that will fit our own bodies.

There is not one "end-all-be-all" recovery that is perfect that everyone should abide by.

nhc
November 14th, 2008, 09:20 PM
Thanks. Now what about windmill pull (not recovery) in backstroke? Has there been any Olympians doing that?

srcoyote
November 15th, 2008, 05:32 AM
There is not one "end-all-be-all" recovery that is perfect that everyone should abide by.

Amen! Everyone has different body proportions which means the leverage and moment of stroke is a product of these ratios.

And stroke can also depend on what you need it for. When I was a sprinter in school, my stroke was much different than it is now when I swim for open water distance. In school, I went straight to the catch with no glide, and I used shorter strokes. Now I use a brief glide on both sides and roll my torso much more to involve my core muscles which have greater stamina than my shoulders.

Redbird Alum
November 15th, 2008, 10:46 AM
Thanks. Now what about windmill pull (not recovery) in backstroke? Has there been any Olympians doing that?

I've always believed that incorporating the bend at the elbow by first pulling to the elbow and then pressing with the entire arm engages more musculature and gives you better leverage and control. An extended (straight) arm places too much work and stress on too few muscles and joints over the long haul.

Do you straight arm your pull in the freestyle?