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pwb
November 25th, 2008, 03:11 PM
I might enter a USS meet next year as the long course season gets underway. I believe you have to be registered with USS to do so, but just wondered:


Is there an easy way to do this given that I'm already USMS registered (e.g., any reciprocity arrangement)?
Do you have to affiliate yourself with a USS team or can you just swim UNAT?

Thanks,

hofffam
November 25th, 2008, 03:27 PM
No reciprocity I'm aware of.

In Texas USA-S membership is handled by the USA-S region (equivalent of a USMS LMSC), not USA-S itself. You'll need to find out which region covers you.

You can definitely register as UNAT.

SKO
November 25th, 2008, 03:46 PM
as far as i know you do need to register under USS as well.

This last summer i got a seasonal registration as a UNAT which was just valid for the summer, which for someone who just wants to swim a few LC meets works out well.

Doug Adamavich
November 25th, 2008, 03:49 PM
Patrick, I am thinking about doing the same to get some long course times in early in the season. You will want to ask Brigid Bunch (AZ LMSC Sanctions) about that subject regarding a USMS sanction. I don't know about the whole USA-S membership aspect though.

Let me know what you find out, I may join for a meet or two come summertime. We could show the kids that the oldsters still got some speed left in them...

pwolf66
November 25th, 2008, 04:18 PM
Most (if not all) age group meets require USA-S registration. There is no 'discount' for being a USMS registered swimmer but it's not that expensive. The cost is the same if you register now or wait until later and your registration (unless you wait until after 1 Oct of next year) will be good until 31 Dec 08. i'm registered with both.

chowmi
November 25th, 2008, 05:26 PM
PWB,

You have to register as USA-S.

Go to:

www.azswimming.org (http://www.azswimming.org)

Go to Document Library

Scroll near bottom and I HIGHLY recommend signing up for the 2009 Year Around Athlete registriation ($57.00). Fill it out (don't forget to list your Mommy and Daddy's name!). You can then swim any meet during the year!!

I suggest going UNAT at first, unless you have some compelling reason to attach to a team.

Here are some thoughts:

1. You will want to surf the site and some of the club sites. Get a feel for the general schedule, ie recurring/annual meets, levels of competition, and meet entry requirements.

2. Stragically chose your USA meets for double duty - check the pool measurement rules and you can have times count for USMS top ten, especially LCM where the pools are typically non-bulkhead and on file with USMS.

3. You may find it is a great way to supplement your masters swimming, or even to have USA goals. If I looked you up correctly, you already swim at the level of grand prix/sectional (and blast through your AZ state) meets.

The only catch....you gotta do the times in USA swimming, with a few exceptions.

Hope that helps!

tjrpatt
November 25th, 2008, 07:58 PM
PWB,

You have to register as USA-S.

Go to:

www.azswimming.org (http://www.azswimming.org)

Go to Document Library

Scroll near bottom and I HIGHLY recommend signing up for the 2009 Year Around Athlete registriation ($57.00). Fill it out (don't forget to list your Mommy and Daddy's name!). You can then swim any meet during the year!!

I suggest going UNAT at first, unless you have some compelling reason to attach to a team.

Here are some thoughts:

1. You will want to surf the site and some of the club sites. Get a feel for the general schedule, ie recurring/annual meets, levels of competition, and meet entry requirements.

2. Stragically chose your USA meets for double duty - check the pool measurement rules and you can have times count for USMS top ten, especially LCM where the pools are typically non-bulkhead and on file with USMS.

3. You may find it is a great way to supplement your masters swimming, or even to have USA goals. If I looked you up correctly, you already swim at the level of grand prix/sectional (and blast through your AZ state) meets.

The only catch....you gotta do the times in USA swimming, with a few exceptions.

Hope that helps!

so, I have to swim at an A/BB/C type USA meets to get the times for the higher level meets.

Glider
November 25th, 2008, 08:10 PM
If you are talking about entering a meet with qualifying times, yes...sort of. In the GA LSC, you can enter without a "proof of time."

But if your swim doesn't beat the qualifying time, they go witch hunting through the USA Swims Database looking for proof you met the time standard in a USA meet.

If you haven't, they fine you $50 per infraction and bar your team (or you if unattached) from competition until you pay up.

YMMV in your LSC.


so, I have to swim at an A/BB/C type USA meets to get the times for the higher level meets.

tjrpatt
November 25th, 2008, 08:24 PM
If you are talking about entering a meet with qualifying times, yes...sort of. In the GA LSC, you can enter without a "proof of time."

But if your swim doesn't beat the qualifying time, they go witch hunting through the USA Swims Database looking for proof you met the time standard in a USA meet.

If you haven't, they fine you $50 per infraction and bar your team (or you if unattached) from competition until you pay up.

YMMV in your LSC.

I read some of the entry forms for USA meets in my area and they are adament that you have done the correct time. Besides, I don't plan to do a USA meet until I know that I can do the qualifying times for the Senior Meets.

Chris Stevenson
November 25th, 2008, 08:39 PM
I seem to remember that times done at USMS-sanctioned meets count for USA-S meets if you request it of the meet referee ahead of time. That way the officials can certify that you did the swim according to USA-S rules (eg, no butterfrog).

But that was a couple years ago, maybe it has changed since then.

chowmi
November 25th, 2008, 10:06 PM
I seem to remember that times done at USMS-sanctioned meets count for USA-S meets if you request it of the meet referee ahead of time. That way the officials can certify that you did the swim according to USA-S rules (eg, no butterfrog).

But that was a couple years ago, maybe it has changed since then.


Go to USA Swimming website:

Click on Applications and Forms
Click on Observed Meet Forms
You will probably look at page 1 (non-season culminating form).
Pay particular attention to how you would answer the part about ..."the reason and explanation for the request"...

For Glider/tjrpatt - right on point about those penalties. Read meet entries carefully - you can bypass lower level meets and start at the A meets - but try and pick the ones where you do not have to have verified SWIMS times....then carefully chose your entries and make sure you get at least an A time.

pwb
November 25th, 2008, 10:19 PM
2. Stragically chose your USA meets for double duty - check the pool measurement rules and you can have times count for USMS top ten, especially LCM where the pools are typically non-bulkhead and on file with USMS.


Thanks so much for the detailed advice. What specific measurement rules or requirements would I be looking for?

chowmi
November 26th, 2008, 12:18 AM
The pool measurement rules can be found here:
usms website
Competition
Top Ten
LMSC guidlines - see pages toward the back, particularly page 13.

See also:

http://www.njmasters.org/RecordsandTabDB/recordstabdb.html

Click on List of Measured Pools by State
Pay attention to SCY, SCM, LCM tabs and descriptions of whether there is a bulkhead and how the course is configured. I'll bet Brophy Prep shows up on the LCM and is a NO bulkhead pool. I'll also bet ASU shows up with multiple configurations, but rule of thumb: if a bulkhead is used, you have to measure.

My advice: Talk to your top ten recorder well in advance. If you are even thinking about a meet, let him know and he can tell you exactly what you would need to do (if anything). You can ask me as well.

What really happens? It is a huge pain so I don't bother with measuring bulkhead pools, and of course I won't ask for it to count in USMS. However, if it's a nonbulkhead pool, someone else measures (my sessions), or a dual sanctioned meet, then YES! You should request it to count for USMS top ten.

FYI - watch carefully on USMS nationals. I missed out this year. I think they got it observed to count for USA and people who tuned in got on the list - so now their times are reflected in SWIMS. And that is a huge deal - it is really difficult to actually swim a local USA meet and get your best times.

knelson
November 26th, 2008, 12:47 AM
I seem to remember that times done at USMS-sanctioned meets count for USA-S meets if you request it of the meet referee ahead of time.

At major meets such as Nationals they will also have a sign-up sheet to have your times added to the USA Swimming database. I did that in Austin and my times are in the database now. Turns out that was a good idea because I'm considering swimming a USA-S meet next month with strict entry times.

edit: yeah, just like Michelle mentioned above ^^

Blackbeard's Peg
November 26th, 2008, 07:25 AM
At major meets such as Nationals they will also have a sign-up sheet to have your times added to the USA Swimming database. I did that in Austin and my times are in the database now. Turns out that was a good idea because I'm considering swimming a USA-S meet next month with strict entry times.

Crap, where was that? I should have done that.

pwolf66
November 26th, 2008, 08:11 AM
I had NO idea that was even available. Bummer.

swimshark
November 26th, 2008, 08:11 AM
I submit my times to my USA-S team and they take care of submitting them into the database.

tjrpatt
November 26th, 2008, 08:59 AM
At major meets such as Nationals they will also have a sign-up sheet to have your times added to the USA Swimming database. I did that in Austin and my times are in the database now. Turns out that was a good idea because I'm considering swimming a USA-S meet next month with strict entry times.

edit: yeah, just like Michelle mentioned above ^^

Knelson,
Did you register with USA Swimming before you had those times from Austin submitted into the USA Swim database?

knelson
November 26th, 2008, 10:03 AM
I wasn't currently registered, but I had been registered in 2006. I don't really know if this is required or not.

tjrpatt
November 26th, 2008, 01:58 PM
I wonder if I can submit my Colonies Zones times into USA Swimming even though I am not registered for USA Swimming yet.

pwolf66
November 26th, 2008, 02:19 PM
No, you have to be registered with USA-S as an Athlete.