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jim clemmons
December 1st, 2008, 02:44 PM
Anyone else catch it last night? What did you think about the program?

smontanaro
December 1st, 2008, 02:57 PM
I saw it. I was impressed with the overhead shot of his freestyle. Not a wasted bit of motion. Just a very long torpedo in the water.

Skip

CreamPuff
December 1st, 2008, 03:00 PM
Phelps looks great. He said he has gained 5 lbs since the Olympics (and I watched him eat with Anderson Cooper.) He still seems to eat a ton. I wonder if he'll gain much more weight between now and when he starts up training for 2012. 'Course he's young and he'll probably be just fine.

Guess he's not quite ready to retire?!

Andy Cooper - didn't have a shot against Phelps on the 25 yd swim for time. Why on earth would Andy want Phelps to do underwater SDK - that's the fastest way to swim. . .

Nice piece. I liked it when Phelps said he owed mom "everything."

Leonard Jansen
December 1st, 2008, 03:04 PM
Speaking of Phelps (WARNING: Pretty dicey for at-work viewing):

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Michael-Phelps-Took-Girlfriend-Caroline-Caz-Pal-Home-To-Meet-His-Mom-For-Thanksgiving-Blog-15067

-LBJ

stillwater
December 1st, 2008, 03:14 PM
I am glad that he is reaping the benefits of decades of hard work. Hopefully his sucess story will inspire many young atheletes to stay the course.

Go man go!

SLOmmafan
December 1st, 2008, 04:53 PM
Agent is pretty certain Phelps can make $100 million lifetime earnings - not too shabby at all. They did seem to make a lot out of the fact that he practiced so much (5 years straight, including Christmas). It is impressive to see so much dedication, but I am certain nearly every person in the water with him at those games put just as much time and dedication in to their performance (not everyone can win a gold, no matter how much effort).

I would be curious to see how much $$ guys like Lochte and Hansen are pulling in post Olympics. It would be nice to know that guys who only win 1 or 2 golds can still walk away with some reward for the hard work.

aquageek
December 1st, 2008, 05:10 PM
It is impressive to see so much dedication, but I am certain nearly every person in the water with him at those games put just as much time and dedication in to their performance (not everyone can win a gold, no matter how much effort).

I don't believe this to be true. Phelps' training apparently is well beyond the normal Olympic level swimmer. I don't think you'll find the greatest in any sport who train only as hard as their peers. I consider Phelps to be up there with Armstrong, Jordan, Montana, Bird, Tiger and those guys are all legendary in their above and beyond training.

FlyQueen
December 1st, 2008, 05:22 PM
I don't believe this to be true. Phelps' training apparently is well beyond the normal Olympic level swimmer. I don't think you'll find the greatest in any sport who train only as hard as their peers. I consider Phelps to be up there with Armstrong, Jordan, Montana, Bird, Tiger and those guys are all legendary in their above and beyond training.

Totally agree the philosophy behind Phelps not taking a day off was that everyone took Sundays off so that was 52 more days a year he had on everyone else. There are many different training styles out there - Gary Hall I'm sure puts no where near the time in. Natalie Coughlin doesn't put the time/yardage in like Phelps (to compare him to another very versatile swimmer).

Phelps has crazy amounts of talent for sure - all the Olympians do but the hard work sets him apart. The 10,000 for time and the crazy IM and Fly sets he's done could not be done by many ... he is in a league of his own in training.

jim thornton
December 1st, 2008, 05:49 PM
I don't know. It seems like Popov did pretty well with a "less is more" approach to training. So did Dara. Granted, MP swims middle distance events, but I think the jury is out as far as mega yardage goes. Like everything else in life, I think it works for some, but not for everyone. It makes you wonder, though, if his greatest swimming skill is his capacity to endure monotony. To do anything, even sex with an endless alternating harem of Islamic virgins, for 365 days a year, five years in a row, might get just a wee bit old. Or at least lead to all manner of overuse syndromes...

lefty
December 1st, 2008, 05:56 PM
I consider Phelps to be up there with Armstrong, Jordan, Montana, Bird, Tiger and those guys are all legendary in their above and beyond training.

PSSST: it's not really true! Those guys did work really hard(!) but it is the talent that separates them (perhaps the combination of hard work and supreme talent).

Paul Smith
December 1st, 2008, 05:56 PM
I don't know. It seems like Popov did pretty well with a "less is more" approach to training. So did Dara. Granted, MP swims middle distance events, but I think the jury is out as far as mega yardage goes. Like everything else in life, I think it works for some, but not for everyone. It makes you wonder, though, if his greatest swimming skill is his capacity to endure monotony. To do anything, even sex with an endless alternating harem of Islamic virgins, for 365 days a year, five years in a row, might get just a wee bit old. Or at least lead to all manner of overuse syndromes...

I've talked to a few coaches who have seen him train...although the yardage is impressive he has a reputation as a bit of a "sammy save up"...cruises a good portion of a set/workout and then swims incredibley fast selectively...which apparently drove some of his harder working/less succesful teammates crazy.

aquageek
December 1st, 2008, 06:05 PM
PSSST: it's not really true! Those guys did work really hard(!) but it is the talent that separates them (perhaps the combination of hard work and supreme talent).

Talent only gets you so far, amigo. It is the hard training that gets you the extra distance, so to speak. Lots and lots of people out there with talent.

Chris Stevenson
December 1st, 2008, 07:50 PM
...cruises a good portion of a set/workout and then swims incredibley fast selectively...

Why, I do believe I've heard that exact same thing said of a fellow by the name of Smith... :)

But why take my word for it?

http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?p=158788#post158788

Typhoons Coach
December 1st, 2008, 08:51 PM
Totally agree the philosophy behind Phelps not taking a day off was that everyone took Sundays off so that was 52 more days a year he had on everyone else. There are many different training styles out there - Gary Hall I'm sure puts no where near the time in. Natalie Coughlin doesn't put the time/yardage in like Phelps (to compare him to another very versatile swimmer).

Phelps has crazy amounts of talent for sure - all the Olympians do but the hard work sets him apart. The 10,000 for time and the crazy IM and Fly sets he's done could not be done by many ... he is in a league of his own in training.

I have to agree with the fact that the training diet and dedication that Phelps has sets him apart from a plethora of swimmers out there! He is so dedicated to more than just the practice though. Top level, high efficiency swimming is a lifestyle for him; you can tell by his nutrition, activities, and attitude towards competition. Just my opinion, but he is the total package when it comes to talent, dedication, and motivation!

quicksilver
December 1st, 2008, 08:57 PM
He's an amazing athlete. The Michael Jordan of swimming.


But in 20 years Michael Phelps might begin to look like Paul's current avatar.
...unless he joins USMS. That boy can eat.

The Fortress
December 1st, 2008, 09:31 PM
Why, I do believe I've heard that exact same thing said of a fellow by the name of Smith... :)

But why take my word for it?

http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?p=158788#post158788

Nice one!

And what's so wrong with that practice anyway? If you're incredibly talented, probably not the best idea to grind away at top effort every single yard of a 20,000 yard day ... or even a 10,000 day ...

I must say, despite being a mommy, I'm almost getting sick of him praising his mom. Pretty soon, I'll lapse into cynicism and think it's mommy career promotion. :bolt:

tjrpatt
December 1st, 2008, 10:27 PM
I wish that I could have had that issue in my age group days/college days of losing weight like crazy. When I was doing 8 to 10K yards a day, add another 4K when I use to do doubles like two days a week, I couldn't fathon eating like Phelps does. Plus, weight was coming off like Phelps says it does for him. Bowman is some sort of genius swim coach. I wonder if Phelps has a tapeworm or something!

Paul Smith
December 2nd, 2008, 09:55 AM
Why, I do believe I've heard that exact same thing said of a fellow by the name of Smith... :)

But why take my word for it?

http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?p=158788#post158788

Lies...all lies...I'm a workout animal!

Chris Stevenson
December 2nd, 2008, 10:02 AM
Nice one!

I think Laura Smith should win an award for highest percentage of deadly zingers in her posts.

Of course, the fact that Paul is the usual target may influence my opinion on the matter.

Smith by Marriage
December 2nd, 2008, 10:20 AM
Paul......Honey......you ARE a workout animal. A sloth is an animal, right?!

knelson
December 2nd, 2008, 10:37 AM
he has a reputation as a bit of a "sammy save up"...cruises a good portion of a set/workout and then swims incredibley fast selectively

Was it Rich Abrahams who said he thinks most people swim too fast when they are supposed to go slow, but too slow when they are supposed to fast or something along those lines? Sounds like Phelps has the same philosophy.


Andy Cooper - didn't have a shot against Phelps on the 25 yd swim for time

Cooper actually suited up and swam against Phelps? My wife is going to be disappointed she missed that!

Smith by Marriage
December 2nd, 2008, 10:41 AM
Chris.....I HAVE to write one liners. Anything over a sentence and Paul loses interest completely (unless, of course, it's a paragraph about Velveta Cheese. Then the man can read forever!)

CreamPuff
December 2nd, 2008, 10:44 AM
Was it Rich Abrahams who said he thinks most people swim too fast when they are supposed to go slow, but too slow when they are supposed to fast or something along those lines? Sounds like Phelps has the same philosophy.


There's this 15 year old gal (she broke Amanda Weirs HS record here in GA) who has MASTERED the art of going the right speed when she's supposed to. I got to see Rich Abrahams' philosophy in action. It's beautiful to watch when executed correctly through a practice. Watching her helped me to go slower in warm up and build up to to top speed as dictated by the coach/ sets. I still have a ways to go!



Cooper actually suited up and swam against Phelps? My wife is going to be disappointed she missed that!

Yep! Poor Cooper needs some stroke work. And by suiting up, he had on his knee length, baggy shorts.

hofffam
December 2nd, 2008, 11:04 AM
You can watch it on the web here. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/25/60minutes/main4633123.shtml)

SLOmmafan
December 2nd, 2008, 02:18 PM
I don't believe this to be true. Phelps' training apparently is well beyond the normal Olympic level swimmer. I don't think you'll find the greatest in any sport who train only as hard as their peers. I consider Phelps to be up there with Armstrong, Jordan, Montana, Bird, Tiger and those guys are all legendary in their above and beyond training.

I wasn't so much trying to take away from Phelps as to point out that other swimmers at the Olympic caliber put out very similar training regimens. Larsen Jensen is listed with training stats of 18,000-20,000 yards per day, at least 6 days per week. Naturally when you train for the 400 and the 1500 you need big yards, but that in no "drop in the bucket".

lefty
December 2nd, 2008, 02:27 PM
Talent only gets you so far, amigo. It is the hard training that gets you the extra distance, so to speak. Lots and lots of people out there with talent.

Really, there are lots and lots of 15 year old (males) with the talent to make the Olympics? Or 6-6 guys who can dunk from the freethrow line and bench press 400 pounds (Jordan, and yes there are 2 dozen people who can dunk from the freethrow line, but I can outbench Kevin Durant). And Bo Jackson, who benched 350lbs the first time he ever sat down and tried it out, there are lots of guys like that (being an Auburn guy Geek I assume you've read this before about Bo)? REALLY? Where?

PS: The myth that Jordan got there on hard work is the biggest joke around.

aquageek
December 2nd, 2008, 03:43 PM
PS: The myth that Jordan got there on hard work is the biggest joke around.

I guess if you knew anything about hoops, and especially Heel hoops, you'd know this to be true. The point is talent only gets you so far, it's how you train and develop that talent further that makes the superstars. It's very convenient that you are totally ignoring Phelps' legendary training to prove your point. Jerry Rice and Herschel Walker were also known for their exceptional workouts, but those probably don't count to you either.

Didn't Ryan Leaf have a lot of talent?

Paul Smith
December 2nd, 2008, 04:34 PM
Interesting that of all the things that could be discussed about Phelps interview no one has brought up the finish of the 100 fly.

Time and again we (I) are calling people out for focusing on the training and not the details...Cavic lifting his head to see the scoreboard at the finish was a history making mistake.

Here's an idea...yes training hard is important...but none of that matters if day in day out your not thinking about, dreaming about and practicing perfect technique.

Paul Smith
December 2nd, 2008, 04:40 PM
PS: The myth that Jordan got there on hard work is the biggest joke around.

I guess that depends on how you define "hard work"? On this forum as I pointed out in the last post the "hard work" is determined (for most) by how many yards they get in per day and how many workouts per week.

Next time your at swim practice try putting a 100% effort into a "perfect" swim (of any distance) a few time: Perfect dive, perfect number of SDK's, perfect break out, exact number of strokes needed per length, perfect turn, constant/powerful kick, perfect finish.

CreamPuff
December 2nd, 2008, 04:41 PM
Interesting that of all the things that could be discussed about Phelps interview no one has brought up the finish of the 100 fly.

Time and again we (I) are calling people out for focusing on the training and not the details...Cavic lifting his head to see the scoreboard at the finish was a history making mistake.

Here's an idea...yes training hard is important...but none of that matters if day in day out your not thinking about, dreaming about and practicing perfect technique.

I thought they both messed up on the finish. Phelps admitted he came into the wall on a half stroke. I thought he said he got lucky and screwed up less - the half stroke was faster than the glide in stroke.

FlyQueen
December 2nd, 2008, 04:55 PM
Two things, one Laura Smith is my hero. I vote her for funniest poster of all time. It's fantastic to see her put Paul in his place - good girl!

Second another Chicago legend is Walter Payton. He is rumored to have out worked everyone. I remember hearing about him going home to Louisianna during the off season (read summer) and running all out sprints on the beach until he hurled and then kept going. His fitness was legendary.

I also have a quote hanging up from another member of the Olympic team with Michael Jordan along the lines of ... MJ was more talented than the rest of the team (which is saying something) but what impressed me most was that he was always the first one on the court and the last one off. He perhaps knew how to train smart?

I also know his old PT very well and she is a peanut but she would put him in his place darn fast - she said he had his faults but hardwork was never one of them - enjoyed pampering, women, amongst other things ...


Lastly, the 100 fly was crazy - I like that he now admits he was fried going into it - makes him human. The relay surely wasn't hard to get fired up for and they knew he didn't have to be perfect to win ... he's a beast.

Paul Smith
December 2nd, 2008, 04:59 PM
I thought they both messed up on the finish. Phelps admitted he came into the wall on a half stroke. I thought he said he got lucky and screwed up less - the half stroke was faster than the glide in stroke.

I wouldn't call Phelps finish a screw up...exhaustion at that point was taking its toll and his power off the wall and in his stroke was fading fast which caused him to lose 1/2 a stroke-if anything his reaction to the situation shows how heads up he was...Cavic lifting his head at the touch to see his time is a mistake and cost him the win.

pwb
December 2nd, 2008, 07:08 PM
I guess that depends on how you define "hard work"? On this forum as I pointed out in the last post the "hard work" is determined (for most) by how many yards they get in per day and how many workouts per week.

Next time your at swim practice try putting a 100% effort into a "perfect" swim (of any distance) a few time: Perfect dive, perfect number of SDK's, perfect break out, exact number of strokes needed per length, perfect turn, constant/powerful kick, perfect finish.

:drink: I'll drink to that. I don't do it as much as I should (but am doing it more lately). The concentration it takes to not be sloppy is a different kind of hard work than powering through the yards and it builds the right muscle memory so that things become automated even when you're too tired to pay attention in a race.

That reminds me not to float my turns in workout tomorrow.

lefty
December 2nd, 2008, 09:35 PM
I guess if you knew anything about hoops, and especially Heel hoops, you'd know this to be true. The point is talent only gets you so far, it's how you train and develop that talent further that makes the superstars.

Lets look at Phelps for just a second. We know for certain that no other 15 year old has ever made the Olympics. And I think we can reasonably agree that - at that age - it was talent that got him there. 15 year olds don't have the muscle development such that "hard work" can distinquish one from another. So the most talented 15 year old swimmer in history low and behold becomes the best swimmer in history and you think it is because he out worked everyone? I am sure that he has worked hard, , but to say that he outworked everyone...well...


Jerry Rice and Herschel Walker were also known for their exceptional workouts, but those probably don't count to you either.

Didn't Ryan Leaf have a lot of talent?

Jerry Rice might be the one I would give you. From all accounts he was slow for an NFL wideout and not outstadingly strong. His routes were perfect and his conditioning unmatched.

Herschel Walker? You mean the All-American track star who almost made the Olympics in the bob-slead? Yeah, there was very little natural talent there.

Ryan Leaf had the talent to be a good NFL QB and blew it (though not because of a lack of effort). Phelps has unmatched talent and uses it.

CreamPuff
December 2nd, 2008, 09:39 PM
I guess that depends on how you define "hard work"? On this forum as I pointed out in the last post the "hard work" is determined (for most) by how many yards they get in per day and how many workouts per week.

Next time your at swim practice try putting a 100% effort into a "perfect" swim (of any distance) a few time: Perfect dive, perfect number of SDK's, perfect break out, exact number of strokes needed per length, perfect turn, constant/powerful kick, perfect finish.

LOL I seriously can't do 1 perfect lap. Not even close.

Chris Stevenson
December 2nd, 2008, 09:52 PM
Is there really any doubt that the world's best athletes are both extremely talented and very dedicated?

A very common trait shared by athletes like Rice, Phelps, Armstrong, and Jordan is that they are extraordinarily competitive and driven. (To say Jordan didn't work hard is absurd...you can always tell the NBA slackers by their poor defense and one-dimensionality.)

You can't say that it is talent and ONLY talent, because there are undoubtedly great talents out there who just didn't have the drive to push themselves to the highest levels. Likewise, there are a lot of extremely hard workers out there who just don't have the genetic material to make it to the very top.

lefty
December 2nd, 2008, 10:06 PM
Next time your at swim practice try putting a 100% effort into a "perfect" swim (of any distance) a few time: Perfect dive, perfect number of SDK's, perfect break out, exact number of strokes needed per length, perfect turn, constant/powerful kick, perfect finish.

Paul, Gary Hall Jr. has talked alot about this. In 1996, when he was a skinny 21 year old who was getting kicked out of practice and drifting from coach to coach, he goes a 48.8 and 22.2 in the 50. 4 years later he matures both physcially and mentally, focuses on the right kind of traning and goes a 48.7 and 21.7. The drop in the 50 is pretty good, the 100 almost nothing. And I have a hard time chalking it up to anything but physical maturation.

Of course Dara said that she did exactly what you proposed just to a higher degree than any swimmer in history. And it certainly worked for her.

lefty
December 2nd, 2008, 10:13 PM
(To say Jordan didn't work hard is absurd...you can always tell the NBA slackers by their poor defense and one-dimensionality.)

You can't say that it is talent and ONLY talent,

My exact quote was "Those guys did work really hard," so I am not sure who you were talking to.

Chris Stevenson
December 3rd, 2008, 05:06 AM
My exact quote was "Those guys did work really hard," so I am not sure who you were talking to.

"PS: The myth that Jordan got there on hard work is the biggest joke around." Without the hard work, Jordan wouldn't have been the best. (And yes, the same is true of his talent.)

In general, either statement -- "the best are the most talented" and "the best work the hardest" -- is an oversimplification. Their inner drive AND their talent is what put them where they are.

aquageek
December 3rd, 2008, 07:42 AM
Lefty - you obviously know nothing about sports and continue to demonstrate that on this forum. With maybe an exception here or there the greatest athletes also have the greatest work and training ethic. Walker's workouts were ridiculous, Bird and Jordan as well. Ever read about Tiger's workouts? Maybe you've heard of this swimmer named Michael Phelps and his legendary training.

I can only think of one ultra superstar who was known to not train hard - Lawrence Taylor.

I've frequently read that John Daly has the most talent of any golfer out there.

Paul Smith
December 3rd, 2008, 09:57 AM
LOL I seriously can't do 1 perfect lap. Not even close.


Me either...but for some silly reason I keep coming back and trying!

Paul Smith
December 3rd, 2008, 10:01 AM
Paul, Gary Hall Jr. has talked alot about this. In 1996, when he was a skinny 21 year old who was getting kicked out of practice and drifting from coach to coach, he goes a 48.8 and 22.2 in the 50. 4 years later he matures both physcially and mentally, focuses on the right kind of traning and goes a 48.7 and 21.7. The drop in the 50 is pretty good, the 100 almost nothing. And I have a hard time chalking it up to anything but physical maturation.

Of course Dara said that she did exactly what you proposed just to a higher degree than any swimmer in history. And it certainly worked for her.

Gary's age group coach crushed him withheavy yardage (and everyone alelse)...not much into quality/sprint work at all...and when Gary was that skinny guy as a freshman at Texas he goes 1:33 in a 200...so again as Chris says a LOT of talent..a lot of hard work and at various points in his career. Bottom's focus at TRC is far more race based and very much built around the 50/100.

hofffam
December 3rd, 2008, 12:05 PM
Gary's age group coach crushed him withheavy yardage (and everyone alelse)...not much into quality/sprint work at all...and when Gary was that skinny guy as a freshman at Texas he goes 1:33 in a 200...so again as Chris says a LOT of talent..a lot of hard work and at various points in his career. Bottom's focus at TRC is far more race based and very much built around the 50/100.

No evidence of a 1:33 200 SCY swim for GH Jr. unless his time was not in an official meet. The USA Swimming top 50 times in SCY goes from Simon Burnett's 1:31.20 to Ian Crocker's 1:34.49.

Interestingly enough - GH Jr.'s name is nowhere to be found in the top 50 all time SCY times. His dad's name however is in many places.

Not intended to take away from GH Jr's accomplishments but I am a doubter that he swam a 1:33 200 free.

tjrpatt
December 3rd, 2008, 12:19 PM
Gary Hall, Jr. swam at 200 free! I didn't think that was possible!

FlyQueen
December 3rd, 2008, 01:48 PM
NCAA meets must not be in that list ...

Paul Smith
December 3rd, 2008, 02:19 PM
No evidence of a 1:33 200 SCY swim for GH Jr. unless his time was not in an official meet. The USA Swimming top 50 times in SCY goes from Simon Burnett's 1:31.20 to Ian Crocker's 1:34.49.

Interestingly enough - GH Jr.'s name is nowhere to be found in the top 50 all time SCY times. His dad's name however is in many places.

Not intended to take away from GH Jr's accomplishments but I am a doubter that he swam a 1:33 200 free.

As a freshman at UT on the 800 free relay is what I'm told...

hofffam
December 3rd, 2008, 03:24 PM
NCAA meets must not be in that list ...

I think NCAA times ARE included. I bet the vast majority of SCY "best times" are NCAA times. For example - Cesar Cielo's times are all over the 50 and 100 lists.

See for yourself:

Mens: http://usaswimming.org/USASWeb/_Rainbow/Documents/dc773f60-29f2-40fd-a164-33ef3ec3eba9/May%2015%20SCY%20Men.pdf

Womens: http://usaswimming.org/USASWeb/_Rainbow/Documents/57eb6c67-b389-41e5-825f-8c07289a1b4b/May%2015%20SCY%20Women.pdf

No relay times on those lists.....

3strokes
December 3rd, 2008, 03:57 PM
To do anything, even sex with an endless alternating harem of Islamic virgins, for 365 days a year, five years in a row, might get just a wee bit old.

Please don't destroy our illusions.................

jim thornton
December 3rd, 2008, 10:08 PM
Ahmed, I think you meant "don't destroy our delusions..."

Actually, in my younger years, I came up with what at the time seemed like a nightmarish test:

which would you rather do if these were your only two options:

spend the rest of your life in the most luxurious motel room imaginable, with great food, all the technology you wanted, some exercise equipment, and an endless assortment of damsels in whatever quantity you wanted delivered any time you wanted, but...you could never leave the motel room

or

spend the rest of your life able to travel anywhere on earth for free, try out any adventure, explore anywhere, but you could never again have sex...

which would you do?

I have to say, the answer has shifted for me over the years. but now, as i slouch ever deeper into dottage, it may show signs of shifting back again...

Talk about delusional illusions!

elixirnova
December 3rd, 2008, 11:02 PM
Anybody catch the list of Phelps' goal times. Caught a peek of 3:59 400 Free and 49.5 100 Fly! I believe he more than accomplished the rest.

jim clemmons
December 4th, 2008, 10:57 AM
Anybody catch the list of Phelps' goal times. Caught a peek of 3:59 400 Free and 49.5 100 Fly! I believe he more than accomplished the rest.

I think you mean his 400IM.

lefty
December 4th, 2008, 05:36 PM
Lefty - you obviously know nothing about sports and continue to demonstrate that on this forum. With maybe an exception here or there the greatest athletes also have the greatest work and training ethic.

So I know nothing, yet you continue to want to talk about with it me? Do you enjoy beating your head against the wall, too? I certainly don't think that you know nothing about sports, I think you have been fed a line of crap because, "hey they basically don't work that much harder than anyone else who's dedicated to the sport," won't sell $150 shoes. Maybe I am in the cynic and you the optomist?

I think Herschel's famous for doing 500 push-ups every morning?

FlyQueen
December 4th, 2008, 06:05 PM
Lets look at Phelps for just a second. We know for certain that no other 15 year old has ever made the Olympics. And I think we can reasonably agree that - at that age - it was talent that got him there. 15 year olds don't have the muscle development such that "hard work" can distinquish one from another. So the most talented 15 year old swimmer in history low and behold becomes the best swimmer in history and you think it is because he out worked everyone? I am sure that he has worked hard, , but to say that he outworked everyone...well...



Jerry Rice might be the one I would give you. From all accounts he was slow for an NFL wideout and not outstadingly strong. His routes were perfect and his conditioning unmatched.

Herschel Walker? You mean the All-American track star who almost made the Olympics in the bob-slead? Yeah, there was very little natural talent there.

Ryan Leaf had the talent to be a good NFL QB and blew it (though not because of a lack of effort). Phelps has unmatched talent and uses it.


At 15 Peirsol broke 2 minutes in the 200 back - first (and I think only) 15 year old to do so. That was 1998 so there was no Olympics. Two years later he made the team at 17.

Jillen Sirokey made the US Olympic team in breaststroke at 15 - she never again came close to her trials times.

Katie Hoff made her first Olympic team at 15. The list goes on and on.

There are far more teen phenoms out there that have one or two big meets then fall off the radar ...

Gymnats are almost always teen phenoms very few if any have success in their 20s.

Dara Torres said she thought Phelps was a flash in the pan in 2000.

I can also all but guarantee that going into 2000 Phelps was working insanely hard - probably harder than some of his Sydney teammates and harder than some of the other 200 flyers.

To accomplish what he has you have to have boat loads of talent, gentic gifts and work harder than anyone else.

SLOmmafan
December 4th, 2008, 06:06 PM
I actually feel that if Phelps takes off a few events from his 2012 schedule he wil have even more impressive times (not that his times this summer were slow :)) Take the 100 fly - if he had been rested for that event I don't think it would have needed a "photo-finish" to determine Phelps was the winner.

The only thing standing in the way of Phelps earning at least 5 more gold medals in London is Michael Phelps. He needs to make certain the celebrity lifestyle does not get in the way of training too much.

Here is a question: will a lackluster performance in London damage Phelps "legacy" as a swimmer, or will his past accomplishments carry him through? You can never take away these 14 golds he already has, but there would be something very wierd about seeing Phelps going back to bronze or even only silver!