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View Full Version : Butterfly vs. Breaststroke



alphadog
December 5th, 2008, 01:25 PM
Inspired by heated discussions in other threads, I decided to throw some jet fuel on the fire.

Allen Stark
December 5th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Please NO.We short axis people need to stick together against the long axis ones(the true axis of evil,especially those who didn't notice they are upside down.)

aquageek
December 5th, 2008, 01:46 PM
There's no dispute or controversy. Fly is a stroke intended to be raced and requires exertion. Frog is what they teach you to swim when you fall off a boat and need to get to shore with minimal effort.

I polled the noodling class on this today. None had ever heard of fly but they all swore by frogstroke saying it reduced the chances of getting their hair wet by 98%.

FlyQueen
December 5th, 2008, 01:52 PM
I don't think I need to state my preferred stroke ... however, I am firmly anti-breaststroke. It is for old ladies and to get from one somewhat icky stroke in the IM to the free.

FlyQueen
December 5th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Please NO.We short axis people need to stick together against the long axis ones(the true axis of evil,especially those who didn't notice they are upside down.)

It always seems to be the breaststrokers that want to be included with the flyers and the flyers want nothing to do with the breaststrokers ...

gobears
December 5th, 2008, 01:59 PM
Ah, breaststroke envy is so easy to spot. Of course you're jealous if you can't go faster than the old ladies noodling or old men drowning. Those of us who attained the higher skill of speed at breaststroke give you our most sincere condolences... :banana:

elise526
December 5th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Breaststroke taxes me more than butterfly. Perhaps this is because I have a kick that brings me to a dead stop. It is a cool stroke that I wish I could have been better at doing.

I do believe, however, that there is a certain build required to be decent at breaststroke. I challenge somebody to find a swimmer good in breaststroke whose feet roll in when they walk. Most breaststrokers I know walk almost pigeon-toed.

Midas
December 5th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Breaststroke (swum properly) is a graceful and very challenging stroke. Same goes for butterfly. Why can't we all get along?

Midas
December 5th, 2008, 02:12 PM
Breaststroke taxes me more than butterly. Perhaps this is because I have a kick that brings me to a dead stop. It is a cool stroke that I wish I could have been better at doing.

I do believe, however, that there is a certain build required to be decent at it. I challenge somebody to find a swimmer good in breaststroke whose feet rolls in when they walk. Most breaststrokers I know walk almost pigeon-toed.

Really? Most breaststrokers I know walk with their feet at 45 degree (or more severe) angles away from dead center.

gobears
December 5th, 2008, 02:16 PM
I do believe, however, that there is a certain build required to be decent at breaststroke. I challenge somebody to find a swimmer good in breaststroke whose feet rolls in when they walk. Most breaststrokers I know walk almost pigeon-toed.

I agree but don't you mean the opposite of pigeon-toed? I've always walked a little more toward the bowlegged end of the spectrum with my toes angled slightly outward if anything. I vividly remember in Kindergarten hating having to sit "indian style" (or the newer, more PC criss-cross-applesauce). I would always shift to a position with my feet and knees outside in a 'w'. I'm sure it has something to do with hip flexors or something. I also have a bit shorter legs and longer torso, I think. Then again, I think there are anatomical advantages for every stroke.

thewookiee
December 5th, 2008, 02:25 PM
It always seems to be the breaststrokers that want to be included with the flyers and the flyers want nothing to do with the breaststrokers ...

AMEN!!! Breastrokers are lane hogs too.

aquageek
December 5th, 2008, 02:37 PM
Reststroke is the only "stroke" that can also be done on the the side and back without any loss, or gain, of speed.

chaos
December 5th, 2008, 02:41 PM
breaststroke, like kicking with a board, promotes conversation and keeps your hair dry thus saving lots of $ on expensive conditioners.

The Fortress
December 5th, 2008, 02:46 PM
What is breaststroke?

quicksilver
December 5th, 2008, 03:04 PM
How about that crazy butterfrog stroke?

Butterfly arms / Breaststroke kick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW_d3XpXltY)

Doug Adamavich
December 5th, 2008, 03:05 PM
What is breaststroke?

The stroke that coordinated people with strong legs do:)

The Fortress
December 5th, 2008, 03:19 PM
The stroke that coordinated people with strong legs do:)

No, that's fly. :D

Typhoons Coach
December 5th, 2008, 03:46 PM
AMEN!!! Breastrokers are lane hogs too.

Flyers are worse than breaststrokers when it comes to hogging a lane! Look out, everyone, wide arms coming through!

Let's have all the true breaststrokers chime in....we're partial to breaststroke "not the reststroke"!

Justin Ritter
December 5th, 2008, 04:38 PM
As a breaststroker I think fly and breast are equally brutal and I dislike swimming either of them in workout pretty much the same. If even a 50 of breast doesn't get you out of breath then you're doing it wrong. I haven't swum a 200 fly in ages and ages but I can tell you I'd much, MUCH rather swim a 400 IM than a 200 breast. The 2-breast is an awful, awful event. It's a shame too since it's my best one.

I agree that all the breast haters are just jealous that breast keeps them from having a fast IM. I've heard a million times "I don't swim IM because I can't swim breast" but how many times have you heard "I don't swim IM because I can't swim fly". That's right.

If we're talking reststroke then we should be talking about back. How many times do you see someone finish a hard set or race and immediately start breasting? The first thing they do is flip over on their back and float along.

aquageek
December 5th, 2008, 05:09 PM
OK, Justin Ritter, credit to you on a nice post. I'm having trouble disputing any of it, dang it.

KaizenSwimmer
December 5th, 2008, 06:50 PM
I love them both, though I came to my love for Bfly only at age 55, after 40 yrs of finding it frustrating. And I came to love Brst only a few years earlier. In both cases, affection became possible only after deciding that neither stroke was about pulling and kicking -- the knack for which had been elusive.

In the case of Brst when I devoted myself to: (1) being good at streamlining just below the surface, (2) minimizing the time spent non-streamlined and above the surface and (3) effecting the transition from above to below with as little water disturbance as possible, Brst acquired a sense of artistry and joy.

For Fly, the epiphany came after watching a Phelps video frame-by-frame and rethinking it similarly to my concept of Brst. To wit: (1) land forward as gently as possible, using a "toe flick" to add to my forward momentum; (2) hold streamline while allowing first gravity, then buoyancy, to have their way with me, and (3) just before buoyancy lifted my head through the surface, to "help" with my hands, as lightly and briefly as possible. Before those changes anything over a 25 was an ordeal. Since them, I've become able to descend the last three 50s in a 200. And experiencing any athletic physical breakthrough in middle age is always thrilling.

As for Bfrog, since my hips have never -- not even as a semi-supple teenager -- been inclined to undulate, I've found that a relatively straight line from shoulders to hips becomes an advantage when one applies a breast kick to aid in the forward-landing, channeling the energy/thrust far more usefully than that of a dolphin kick.

Caveat: Those styles don't produce much of what others consider "speed" -- going under 3:00 for 200 yds of either will be grounds for celebration. But never having had much knack for swimming fast, I'm all about sustainability and both 200 Fly and 400 IM have become something to look forward to since I began to swim this way.

SLOmmafan
December 5th, 2008, 07:07 PM
I love swimming, but I find that my stroke preference is based primarily on how long it will take me to get a lap done using that particular stroke. So, I don't really see the need for any other stroke besides front crawl - except to add unneccesary complication to an other wise straight forward task.

elise526
December 5th, 2008, 09:26 PM
I agree but don't you mean the opposite of pigeon-toed? I've always walked a little more toward the bowlegged end of the spectrum with my toes angled slightly outward if anything. I vividly remember in Kindergarten hating having to sit "indian style" (or the newer, more PC criss-cross-applesauce). I would always shift to a position with my feet and knees outside in a 'w'. I'm sure it has something to do with hip flexors or something. I also have a bit shorter legs and longer torso, I think. Then again, I think there are anatomical advantages for every stroke.

It's been a long week. Yes, I meant the toes or feet turned outward. I do think there are anatomical advantages for each stroke. I know for sure that I don't have whatever advantage is needed for breaststroke.

Allen Stark
December 8th, 2008, 10:59 PM
Reststroke is NOT BR.You might as well say dogpaddle is crawl.

jim clemmons
December 8th, 2008, 11:15 PM
OK, Justin Ritter, credit to you on a nice post. I'm having trouble disputing any of it, dang it.

Wow, I know that was hard to do Geek but I'm proud of you.

ourswimmer
December 9th, 2008, 12:02 AM
Please NO.We short axis people need to stick together against the long axis ones(the true axis of evil,especially those who didn't notice they are upside down.)

Hey, now. Even Mr. Clemmons admits that the 200 backstroke has a certain numb-footed charm.

swim25
December 9th, 2008, 12:39 AM
I would have to say I like butterfly better, it is definitely a more graceful and beautiful looking stroke and the added difficulty of performing it makes me want to do it more. It goes back to the idea of always wanting what you can't have. Breaststroke just looks sloppy to me. I have finally started to get an idea of how to do breaststroke.

Redbird Alum
December 9th, 2008, 03:39 PM
To me, Breast and Fly are like art....

Deeply complex, nice to look at, but hard to do! :D