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butterfly
May 11th, 2003, 03:43 PM
Hey Folks,

I recently swam the 100 fly in a time of 1:02.30 (scy). My splits per 25 were the following:

13.30
15.40
16.70
16.90

I took it out in a 28.70, came back in a 33.60 but the 25 splits for my last 50 were even (16.70, 16.90). Any suggestions on a faster 50? Again, it wasn't like I swam the last 25 a lot slower.

Thanks.

valhallan
May 11th, 2003, 05:27 PM
This topic may have been kicked around here a few times before, but it may have only pertained to the hundred free. I think Jim Thorton started the thread on "how to split the hundred". Anyway, there seems to be a rule of thumb that applies to most hundred yard splits, and it goes something like this....

If one were to take out the first 50 just around a second slower than their current fifty time, then add.. say two and a half to three seconds (from the first fifty pace) , the total should be a fairly close estimate for the overall hundred time.

Example...say your best fifty fly time is 27 flat. Your race pace on the hundred may go something like this.....

Take the first fifty out in 28. Come back in 30.5 or 31.0.

Overall time should be anywhere from 57.5 to 58+.

Some people try to ease off on the first 50 yards, and even split the race. I'ld say that most swimmers go out a bit harder on the first two laps and hang in there for the finish. In any case, most of the meet results that I've scrolled through in recent times show that the above rule of thumb appears to happen more often than not,... regardless of what stroke is being raced.

Now maybe someone else out there can give you some advise on how to "fly" through the hundred :cool:

lefty
May 12th, 2003, 01:37 PM
I think that formula is appropriate for short course 100 freestyle and backstroke. Maybe a college aged flyer but that is pretty tough to do for most of use. Your Fly and breastroke turns are so slow, that the formula would have to be adjusted anyhow to reflect that.

valhallan
May 12th, 2003, 03:45 PM
Just a quick example...

Ion Beza had posted about a meet in his neck of the woods recently. It was hosted by the San Diego Masters.

Anyway, "Tall Paul" Smith won the (mens 40-44) fifty fly in 24 flat. His winning time for the hundred fly was 53 and change. As per the formula on his hundred splits... First 50 out in 25+ seconds. Second 50 back in 27+ seconds.

I think you're probably right that fly and breast turns would require a bend in the rule of thumb. But believe it or not, this happens to work fairly consistently. Then again, swimmers like Paul would present a very unique case in rationalizing this theory for butterfly races.

lefty
May 13th, 2003, 01:08 PM
As you said the formula is most appropriate for high-level swimmers. Perhaps it could be something to shoot for.

I think that the original poster's splits look pretty good, with the salient point being that the last 25 was not that much slower than the 3rd 25.

valhallan
May 13th, 2003, 02:16 PM
Lefty,

You're right about that. The last fifty looked like a consistent effort. No piano on the back during the last lap. But back to the original post,... I think it would be difficult for anyone to really comment on how "Butterfly" could come up with a better race strategy not knowing a few more details.

Specifically,...

level of conditioning, amount of effort put into that first fifty, and tendencies to be more of a sprinter or distance swimmer.

Have a good one. Val.

jasoneaddy
May 16th, 2003, 05:55 PM
In an effort to win the overkill award, I've compiled some statistics based on the 50 and 100 fly at this year's NEM championships. There were about 100 swimmers in the 100 Butterfly this year. One of the benefits of running a results website is having tons of data at your fingertips. I thought maybe I should make use of it.

The page with the semi gory details is:
http://www.swimmingtimes.com/analysis

The short summary is that for the top 10 percent of performances the difference between the first and second fifty of the hundred was just over 3 seconds. For the entire event, the average difference was almost 5 seconds.

The difference between the 50 race and the first 50 of the 100 was just under a second and for the entire sample was about 2 1/4 seconds.

If anyone has any suggestions for other analysis to do on the data, I'm all ears. Now that the data is extracted for this admittedly small sample, maybe someone could tell us what it means... :)

-Jason

valhallan
May 18th, 2003, 09:37 AM
Jason,

Pretty interesting stuff.


But I couldn't help but notice that hundred fly time of yours! Not to mention some of those "other" events you swim. I guess you'll keep the folks at the records department fairly busy if you don't retire anytime soon. Rock on.

rseltzer
May 19th, 2003, 09:07 AM
Jason:

Nice piece of statistics. I'm sure that some out there will find some deeper meaning. Meanwhile, I'm willing to bet that those that went out slower and came back faster felt much better post race.

Also congratulations to Greg Shaw (age 52), another NEM , for another display of great "flying" at USMS nationals (50/100 fly and smart enough to give the 200 a rest) and for his defeat of Jim McConica head-to-head in the 200 IM (also a new USMS record). Greg trains on his own and will be the first to admit that he is no expert in splitting a race.

PS: Bet you would have taken that first 50 out harder if Ron Karnaugh didn't break his hand the day before.