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gull
February 14th, 2009, 01:05 PM
Lately I am becoming more aware of (even if they are not more frequent) days when I step on the gas but the tank is empty. Those are the days when I want to put a bullet through the pace clock. I was wondering if anyone else notices the same thing, and if so what they do about it.

qbrain
February 14th, 2009, 02:04 PM
Yep, it happens to me too. On those days, I definitely don't read Chris Stevenson's blog.

orca1946
February 14th, 2009, 02:10 PM
A long season ,time between meets & Cold weather all make for some down time in the brain. When you get closer to the end of indoor season & the state meet, you will feel better & have more drive!:bouncing:

quicksilver
February 14th, 2009, 02:16 PM
Eat more steak.

gobears
February 14th, 2009, 02:38 PM
Lately I am becoming more aware of (even if they are not more frequent) days when I step on the gas but the tank is empty. Those are the days when I want to put a bullet through the pace clock. I was wondering if anyone else notices the same thing, and if so what they do about it.

I assume you're talking about feeling sluggish in the water. Whenever I have a day like that I give myself extra points for pushing through. It's easy to go fast on the days you feel good. On the days you don't, you should feel extra good for sticking it out.

jim clemmons
February 14th, 2009, 05:21 PM
Lately I am becoming more aware of (even if they are not more frequent) days when I step on the gas but the tank is empty. Those are the days when I want to put a bullet through the pace clock. I was wondering if anyone else notices the same thing, and if so what they do about it.

Yep, just swim through it. For me, it's not a lack of "fuel" since I eat before workout - are you fueling beforehand? Might have something to do with it if you're not.

scyfreestyler
February 14th, 2009, 05:30 PM
I'll say this, there are days when the intervals are easier to make than others. On the tough days, I just figure the extra discomfort will pay dividends at my next meet.

aquageek
February 14th, 2009, 05:55 PM
I find when I have a bad workout or workout week that lack of sleep is usually the culprit.

Bobinator
February 14th, 2009, 06:11 PM
HI GULL!

I don't know how old you are but the older I get the more days it takes me to recover from an intense workout. I hardly ever feel great 2 days in a row.
I usually eat a power bar or a couple banana's before I swim, even if I'm not hungry.
good luck :agree:

aquageek
February 14th, 2009, 07:02 PM
I don't know how old you are but the older I get the more days it takes me to recover from an intense workout.

Gull is really really old.

thewookiee
February 14th, 2009, 07:41 PM
Gull is really really old.

Geek should know, since he is Gull's older brother.


Gull-do you replinsh soon after practice or wait awhile? If it is more than 30 minutes after workout, you body might need fuel sooner.

alphadog
February 14th, 2009, 08:51 PM
What about an extended period of sluggishness in the water? I'm getting much stronger in the weight room, but feel like a rock in the water. I've noticed this after I transitioned to doing more intensity and more fly in my workouts about 3 weeks ago. I expected to adapt by now, but the last few days I've had a really hard time. How long should it take to adapt from an aerobic type regimen to more of a power phase? I know this will vary, so assume the phase lasts 6 weeks; should you keep piling on the intensity or allow recovery within the six weeks. I wonder if I'm erring on the side of working hard vs working smart.

gull
February 14th, 2009, 11:11 PM
Hey, Jim. No, I haven't been eating anything beforehand since I swim so damn early in the morning because of work. Maybe I should.

Robin, I am 51. My son tells me I am not old, Geek. Didn't you just age up?

John, I usually have a grande latte from Starbucks after I swim. Not really hungry until later in the morning. I try to grab a Gatorade and something to eat midmorning but am starving by lunchtime. I was thinking this might be part of the problem.

jim clemmons
February 14th, 2009, 11:25 PM
Hey, Jim. No, I haven't been eating anything beforehand since I swim so damn early in the morning because of work. Maybe I should.



I'm up an hour (4:30) before workout starts (5:30am) and down a banana and a few dried apricots. It's not much but it replenishes muscle glycogen that depletes while you're sleeping. You may not feel like eating but you need to ignore that and eat something anyway. And give it some time (4 weeks or so) for your body to get used to it.

stillwater
February 14th, 2009, 11:26 PM
I am a bit older than you. I am getting used to saying that.

There are times when I feel like I'm swimming in Jello. Most of those times are when I have taken a break and starting the grind again.

It sucks.

I question the clock. I question the coach's stopwatch. I question the length of the pool I've swam in for years. I question the lane lines, my lane mates, the water temp, the cross, my goggles, the earth-moon alignment, and el nino.

It passes. I then pat myself on the back and forget who that whiney fellow was.

thewookiee
February 15th, 2009, 09:06 AM
Hey, Jim. No, I haven't been eating anything beforehand since I swim so damn early in the morning because of work. Maybe I should.

Robin, I am 51. My son tells me I am not old, Geek. Didn't you just age up?

John, I usually have a grande latte from Starbucks after I swim. Not really hungry until later in the morning. I try to grab a Gatorade and something to eat midmorning but am starving by lunchtime. I was thinking this might be part of the problem.

Gull...from my personal experience, if I don't have some actual food after a workout and wait awhile, I do feel awful the next time I have an intense workout. Mayb try some health bars that aren't high in calories but can get some protein back in the body pretty quick or a bag of trail mix type fruits, nuts.

gull
February 15th, 2009, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I will give them a try.

mctrusty
February 15th, 2009, 12:14 PM
What about an extended period of sluggishness in the water? I'm getting much stronger in the weight room, but feel like a rock in the water. I've noticed this after I transitioned to doing more intensity and more fly in my workouts about 3 weeks ago. I expected to adapt by now, but the last few days I've had a really hard time. How long should it take to adapt from an aerobic type regimen to more of a power phase? I know this will vary, so assume the phase lasts 6 weeks; should you keep piling on the intensity or allow recovery within the six weeks. I wonder if I'm erring on the side of working hard vs working smart.

Are your times maintaining, getting faster or slower? Are you feeling wiped out outside of the pool? Getting sick? If your times are getting slower and you're feeling sick and/or generally wiped out, you're probably overtraining and really need rest.

If your times are maintaining and you just feel sluggish in the water you're probably just feeling normal training fatigue. At some point, you'll want to let your body recover a bit because eventually you might find yourself in overtraining fatigue.

In general, you should probably take some recovery time within a training phase. Even if it's only a day or 2. But how to vary the building/resting depends depends on you.

Bobinator
February 15th, 2009, 12:36 PM
Hi Gull!
It is true....you should replenish your calories within 30 minutes after your workout. If you wait longer than that it will be less effective and you will feel it in your next workout.
On sunday night I clean and cut lots of fruit, buy yogurt(it's portable), and stock up on whole grain bread/peanut butter/jelly. I keep this stash in my office at work and try to eat after swimming hungry or not. Lots of times I don't feel hungry but then get hungry after I start eating.

ourswimmer
February 15th, 2009, 01:37 PM
I will add my voice to the chorus of those advising you to eat something right after workout. Like you, I never eat before an early AM workout because (unlike Jim) I cannot get up early enough to do so. I do eat before Saturday workouts because I go later on Saturdays than on weekdays. I don't notice much difference in workout performance based on whether or not I've eaten before.

I do always drink coffee before workout, though, as well as a bunch of water before and during. People often wake up dehydrated; might that be a factor for you?

What does really affect how I feel later the same day, and the next day, is how long I wait after workout to eat, and what I eat. Even if it's only 300 calories or so of food, a low-glycemic meal of complex carbohydrates with some protein helps a lot. Best is when I can arrange to eat it in the car on the way to my office (sandwich, breakfast bar, fruit and nuts).

gull
February 15th, 2009, 05:42 PM
Are your times maintaining, getting faster or slower? Are you feeling wiped out outside of the pool?

Swam a Masters PB in November but with a few exceptions have not felt great in practice the past several weeks. Repeat times are slower or if not seem to require more effort, although I have had some good days. Always tired in the evenings (passed out on the sofa), but that's nothing new. Back in the day I never gave much thought to pre and post workout nutrition, but I may need to start doing that.

quicksilver
February 15th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Robin mentioned the 30 minute window of time to start replenishing depleted glycogen stores.
I don't know too much about sports medicine but it's highly recommended to fuel up after each practice, even if it's a small amount of carbs or sugar.

Many people are talking about the benefits of chocolate milk as an after workout recovery drink.
This article (http://www.liveleantoday.com/article.cfm?id=358) sheds some light on the benefits.

And it also talks about the recovery window.
http://www.liveleantoday.com/article.cfm?id=658

gigi
February 15th, 2009, 07:27 PM
Robin mentioned the 30 minute window of time to start replenishing depleted glycogen stores.
I don't know too much about sports medicine but it's highly recommended to fuel up after each practice, even if it's a small amount of carbs or sugar.

Many people are talking about the benefits of chocolate milk as an after workout recovery drink.
This article (http://www.liveleantoday.com/article.cfm?id=358) sheds some light on the benefits.

And it also talks about the recovery window.
http://www.liveleantoday.com/article.cfm?id=658

That sounds reasonable to me - but I don't drink cow's milk - I wonder if chocolate soy milk would do the same thing?

Mookie
February 15th, 2009, 07:41 PM
I think some specific post workout nutrition advice would be good.

Chocolate milk is OK, but that's 400 calories in a carton from the stop-n-rob. Too many for me. I usually have a Soy Joy (140 calories, 5 g protein) or a Myoplex Lite bar (190 calories, 15 g protein).

Later on, maybe a PB&J or turkey sandwich.

What do others do?

Ripple
February 15th, 2009, 08:38 PM
I find that I run out of steam after about 45 minutes if I try to swim on no breakfast at all. It doesn't need to be complicated, even a piece of toast with peanut butter will do. Easier to digest is a "gundy" made with half a cup of frozen blueberries, a sprinkle of sugar, and half a cup of pre-cooked porridge (usually oatmeal) nuked in the microwave on the "frozen vegetable" setting. Within a few minutes I've got this island of porridge floating on a dark sea of blueberry syrup. I wipe the purple from my lips to avoid that vampyrish look, and I'm ready to go out the door and swim for up to two hours. And yes it's true, recovery comes faster when you eat something within 30 minutes of finishing.

Thrashing Slug
February 15th, 2009, 08:52 PM
I make a point of always refueling as fast as possible after workouts. If I know I won't have time to eat a good meal within 30 minutes, I drink a recovery drink, and then eat later too. I tend to eat huge amounts of calories, but always healthy stuff.

Lately since I've been swimming at night, I have noticed a lack of energy if I don't eat beforehand. For some reason it's easier for me to get up in the morning and swim without eating. If I try to do that after a day of work, I run out of energy. I was also getting calf cramps in my evening workouts. So I have taken to eating something small about an hour before workout, and bringing a bottle with some HEED drink, which I start drinking about 45 minutes in. It seems to be working.

quicksilver
February 16th, 2009, 10:37 AM
That sounds reasonable to me - but I don't drink cow's milk - I wonder if chocolate soy milk would do the same thing?

It does.
I don't drink cow's milk either.

Soy milk..."Silk" is good stuff.

chowmi
February 16th, 2009, 11:04 AM
Maybe that "empty tank" feeling isn't such a bad thing - it may mean you are doing everything RIGHT! I didn't get married and have kids and work at a great job so that everyone else could stop while I train and compete in masters swimming. On a DAILY basis, the ROUTINE itself is a priority, but not how I feel or how fast I swim. Whatever you have LEFT in the tank is what you give to masters swimming. The key is to pick and choose the lowest hanging fruit and make improvement there - whether it is technique, nutrition, frequency, commitment (mental), etc....

At any point in time, there are a select few masters swimmers who can and do make swimming a priority, another big group is in roughly good shape, and a whole bunch are either coming in/coming out due to work, illness, injury, enthusiam, life cycle (having kids) etc....just recognize where you are on that spectrum and having empty tank days may then seem like SUCCESS days!

gull
February 16th, 2009, 12:35 PM
Maybe that "empty tank" feeling isn't such a bad thing - it may mean you are doing everything RIGHT! I didn't get married and have kids and work at a great job so that everyone else could stop while I train and compete in masters swimming. On a DAILY basis, the ROUTINE itself is a priority, but not how I feel or how fast I swim. Whatever you have LEFT in the tank is what you give to masters swimming. The key is to pick and choose the lowest hanging fruit and make improvement there - whether it is technique, nutrition, frequency, commitment (mental), etc....

At any point in time, there are a select few masters swimmers who can and do make swimming a priority, another big group is in roughly good shape, and a whole bunch are either coming in/coming out due to work, illness, injury, enthusiam, life cycle (having kids) etc....just recognize where you are on that spectrum and having empty tank days may then seem like SUCCESS days!

I like that. Thanks.