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Red60
March 6th, 2009, 12:00 PM
I have been back swimming for several years. In that time I have mostly worked out alone, but sometimes swim with a group of people, one of whom has competed in masters meets on and off for years.

I used to be exclusively a freestyle sprinter, but out of boredom I started swimming IM. Last year swam my first 200 IM in competition, which hurt like hell but I got a bang out of it. Anyway I've been working on my fly on and off, and was stupid enough to mention to one of my workout buddies that I'd considered working up to the 100 fly as my next challenge.

He suggested a 400 yard fly set: 1x100, 2x50, 1x50+2x25, 4x25. I actually managed to do this three times in one week, but sort of crashed the next week--probably pushed it too hard. But for the first time in my life I actually swam 100 fly, and did so legally. (My 50 hovers at 32; I tried to negative split it the first time, and went 45 and 45 plus three seconds hanging on the wall at the 75 for a 1:33!)

Anyway I am swimming in a meet this weekend, and when I sent in my entry I totally chickened out and did not enter the 100 fly, which was right after the 50 free, which I also often swim.

I saw my friend Bill at the pool two days later and he asked about my events for said meet. I told him, and he nodded. "No 100 fly?" he asked. I said nope, maybe next meet. He nodded again and left for the post-workout hot tub. Ten minutes later he came back as I was finishing some 25s of fly at the end of my swim. He smiled and said, "I want you to know that I say this in the best possible way and from the bottom of my heart, but your failure to enter the 100 fly this weekend is the single most cowardly act in the history of competitive swimming."

I laughed, of course. But then I went home and emailed the meet director. I'm in. I sent in a seed time of 1:30 to guarantee that I could avoid a fast heat. God help me.

A diabolical taunt, don't you think?

Couroboros
March 6th, 2009, 12:25 PM
My coaches have started having us do IM sets. I am afraid for what this means.

Taunts and doubt seemed to work well for Michael Phelps.

Iwannafly
March 6th, 2009, 01:33 PM
but your failure to enter the 100 fly this weekend is the single most cowardly act in the history of competitive swimming."

I laughed, of course. But then I went home and emailed the meet director. I'm in. I sent in a seed time of 1:30 to guarantee that I could avoid a fast heat. God help me.

A diabolical taunt, don't you think?

That is a good tactic...and it worked! Good luck. I just swam my first ever 100 fly three weeks ago. The last 37.5 hurt like hell, but I finished it in just over 1:26. Now I have something to shoot for. Plus, my goal is to swim the 400 IM before I die! So I have now finished the hardest portion of that event!

That Guy
March 6th, 2009, 01:34 PM
Last year swam my first 200 IM in competition, which hurt like hell but I got a bang out of it.

WHOA TMI!!! :bolt:



Good luck in your 100 fly! :)

aquageek
March 6th, 2009, 01:54 PM
It's only cowardly if you signed up for any breast events but not the 100 fly. I saw a grown man quit on the 100 fly LCM once and he is fast.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
March 6th, 2009, 02:01 PM
I say face your fear.

I am a total butterfly coward...

But I broke down and swam a 200 fly a few weeks ago at the end of a distance events meet to "face my fear".

The goal was to be legal. There are lots of ways to swim fly easier and legal... while you are building strength and improving your technique.

I just don't suggest swimming a 200 of every event + the 1,000 free before diving in to race a 200 fly last!

Faced my fear, but I'm still a bit of a butterfly coward :)

freeflykami
March 6th, 2009, 03:23 PM
He smiled and said, "I want you to know that I say this in the best possible way and from the bottom of my heart, but your failure to enter the 100 fly this weekend is the single most cowardly act in the history of competitive swimming."

I laughed, of course. But then I went home and emailed the meet director. I'm in. I sent in a seed time of 1:30 to guarantee that I could avoid a fast heat. God help me.

A diabolical taunt, don't you think?

I think your friend knew what would get you in! Good for him, and for you!
I am also scarred of that 100 fly... maybe I can deck enter ;0)

Red60
March 6th, 2009, 05:25 PM
Ahelee:

"...I broke down and swam a 200 fly a few weeks ago at the end of a distance events meet to "face my fear"... Faced my fear, but I'm still a bit of a butterfly coward."

Hello? You swam a 200 FLY. You are brave indeed.

T.J., that last 37.5 is the thing that scares me, too. I'm with you--some day a 400 IM, but you have to start with the first labor of Hercules. So that's first.

Guy, sorry I, er, misspoke. I was glad to have swum the 200 IM.

Kami, keep us posted. If I can do it, you can do it. (But of course I haven't done it yet, so that doesn't amount to much, does it?)

Geek, I was guilty of said offense. And I'm not worried about having to quit so much as I fear my bawling and blubbering as I'm helped out of the pool. (Sort of like Will Ferrell in Talladega Nights, except he was in a car)

I promise to report, even if it's humiliating.

ourswimmer
March 6th, 2009, 05:40 PM
I swam a fly race recently for the first time in many, many years (other than a 50 at a sprint pentathlon). I got repeat doses of some very valuable advice, which I will pass along to you: You cannot take the first 100 out too slow.

My race was a 200, but I believe the principle may apply to your race too.

The Fortress
March 6th, 2009, 05:41 PM
Anyway I've been working on my fly on and off, and was stupid enough to mention to one of my workout buddies that I'd considered working up to the 100 fly as my next challenge.

He suggested a 400 yard fly set: 1x100, 2x50, 1x50+2x25, 4x25. I actually managed to do this three times in one week, but sort of crashed the next week--probably pushed it too hard. But for the first time in my life I actually swam 100 fly, and did so legally. (My 50 hovers at 32; I tried to negative split it the first time, and went 45 and 45 plus three seconds hanging on the wall at the 75 for a 1:33!)

Anyway I am swimming in a meet this weekend, and when I sent in my entry I totally chickened out and did not enter the 100 fly, which was right after the 50 free, which I also often swim.

I saw my friend Bill at the pool two days later and he asked about my events for said meet. I told him, and he nodded. "No 100 fly?" he asked. I said nope, maybe next meet. He nodded again and left for the post-workout hot tub. Ten minutes later he came back as I was finishing some 25s of fly at the end of my swim. He smiled and said, "I want you to know that I say this in the best possible way and from the bottom of my heart, but your failure to enter the 100 fly this weekend is the single most cowardly act in the history of competitive swimming."

I laughed, of course. But then I went home and emailed the meet director. I'm in. I sent in a seed time of 1:30 to guarantee that I could avoid a fast heat. God help me.

A diabolical taunt, don't you think?

I have a history of fly cowardice as well. It took me over 2 1/2 years of masters swimming to sign up for and swim a 100 fly. And it was my best event in college ... I finally did in January of last year. Did it at a USS meet where I couldn't scratch in front of my kid. I survived and I have been doing it fairly regularly since. But it still does cross my mind to scratch it every time. :D

Good luck on your 100 fly! If and when the piano falls at the end, that's perfectly normal.

swim25
March 6th, 2009, 07:41 PM
You know what I think that is awesome of you. Sometimes it takes someone else to make us do what normally we wouldn't. I have been swimming for about 2 years and with a masters program for about 6 months. My first meet in November my coach made me do. I told him I wanted to go check it out see how things are done than race in a later meet. He said no and that I had to enter 4 events. I did and it was the best time ever.
In February we had a meet in San Francisco, while signing up for it online one night I noticed that I only had three events and since I live in Fresno I figured I should sign up for more to make it worth my while. So I decided to do the 200IM. I was nervous as hell since I hadn't done much practice with the 200IM. Well I did and it hurt like hell and i got DQ'ed but I did and it was awesome. Doing things to challenge yourself is what swimming is all about and when you are surrounded by positive people on your team it is even better. Good job and good luck!

some_girl
March 6th, 2009, 07:46 PM
I swam a fly race recently for the first time in many, many years (other than a 50 at a sprint pentathlon). I got repeat doses of some very valuable advice, which I will pass along to you: You cannot take the first 100 out too slow.

My race was a 200, but I believe the principle may apply to your race too.

I definitely feel that way about the 200, which I swim about twice a year, and I have the splits to prove it. But the 100 brings to mind a quote I read somewhere, maybe on this forum: "You can take it out fast and die or you can take it out slow and die." The correct choice is left as an exercise for the reader.

pwolf66
March 6th, 2009, 09:10 PM
Red,

Take that first 50 out relaxed, focus on keeping your arms very relaxed and long on the recovery. Make sure you breathe every other stroke. Focus on tight streamlines on the start and every turn. Remember, every 3/4 sec you streamline is one less arm stroke!!!! Start to bring your legs in on the 3rd 25 and and on the last 25 kick, even if you think you can't, work that kick. It's going to hurt but do not let your body rule your swim. Keep your head low and your recovery relaxed!!!!

Relax and have fun.

qbrain
March 7th, 2009, 09:55 AM
Red60,

Why to stand up to peer pressure! Oh wait, you caved.

I guess he did triple dog dare you, so you pretty much had to at that point.

The 100 fly isn't that bad, I have watched many swimmers successfully complete it, and I am sure you will too.

srcoyote
March 7th, 2009, 12:48 PM
I have a history of fly cowardice as well. It took me over 2 1/2 years of masters swimming to sign up for and swim a 100 fly. And it was my best event in college ...

That perspective rings true for me. I'm now in my late '30's and currently only do open water distance events instead of meets, but I've put some fly and IM into my pool workouts.

When I was in high school, the 100 fly was my best event, and I even competed at the state level in Florida and in the southestern regionals. Now I'm hard pressed to finish much more than a 50 without totally running out of gas. Of course, the 30 extra pounds I've added in the last 20 years may have something to do with that.

KEWebb18
March 7th, 2009, 01:18 PM
One of the girls on my USS team in high school refused to do any butterfly in practice or meets because she was convinced it was going to make her neck bigger.
I for one did not have such an elaborate excuse to not swim it. I just didn't like it. Looking back, I probably should have tried that as my second stroke as it seems that most fast freestyle swimmers are also good at butterfly.
I hope to conquer my fear of the 100 fly as a masters swimmer and swim it long course this summer....that way I don't have the walls to hang onto.

david.margrave
March 7th, 2009, 02:45 PM
last summer I swam 100 fly LCM twice. I think I followed a breathing pattern something like 2 up / 1 down first 50, and 1 up / 1 down on the second 50.

Red60
March 7th, 2009, 09:02 PM
BULLETIN: I did not drown!

In fact, it went pretty well. My 100 IM ten minutes earlier was slow. But I took a lot of the above advice: I breathed more, kept my head down, stayed calm. I was worried at the 75 turn, but in the middle of the last 25 I discovered that I really would make it, and even had something left.

I did not get the split, but I finished in 1:21.66. Probably 38/43. My seed time was 1:30.00, so I was pleased.

I think I'll even do it again, now that I know that I can!

Michael Heather
March 7th, 2009, 09:11 PM
Good for you!

The 100 fly is one of the most fun races I can imagine. When done well, everyone appreciates it. You don't even have to do a lot of fly in workouts, just work on form once in a while. Do a lot of leg lifts and situps and everything is groovy.

bergsteiger
March 8th, 2009, 12:42 PM
Way to go, Red!

Sounds like Bill is a true friend :chug:

Rykno
March 9th, 2009, 02:50 AM
I think I'll even do it again, now that I know that I can!

Nice work. Congrats to beating your seed time. Do you know anyone else that swims the 100fly? if so you should try making goals together. it's been helping me and a friend of mine.

he's a backstroker and I'm a breaststroker. but when i swam my first 100m fly at 1:13, he told me he was going to go under 1:10 at the next meet, so I signed up for the 100 fly too with a goal of getting under 1:10.

he went 1:11.02 and I had 1:10.6 we then dropped the goal time to under 1:09m he went 1:08.6 and I had 1:08.87. then he went to a meet that I wasn't able to attend and swam 1:06.56, but of all the events he swam that meet the 100fly was the one he was shooting for.

we no longer train together, but it hasn't stopped us from trash talking the 100fly.

in two weeks we'll be at the same meet, but I have the advantage, the event order before the 100fly is 50fr, 100br, 50 back, 100 fly so I will get about 30-45 minutes more rest than him, and I am sure that I will be in the heat before him. our goal is under 1:06.

I've been working alot on my breathing pattern and kick. I tend to lose my second kick and the last 25 is all arms.

ViveBene
March 9th, 2009, 09:47 AM
BULLETIN: I did not drown!

In fact, it went pretty well. My 100 IM ten minutes earlier was slow. But I took a lot of the above advice: I breathed more, kept my head down, stayed calm. I was worried at the 75 turn, but in the middle of the last 25 I discovered that I really would make it, and even had something left.

I did not get the split, but I finished in 1:21.66. Probably 38/43. My seed time was 1:30.00, so I was pleased.

I think I'll even do it again, now that I know that I can!

Congratulations!
:applaud:


Nice work. Congrats to beating your seed time. Do you know anyone else that swims the 100fly? if so you should try making goals together. it's been helping me and a friend of mine.
.

I think this is a smart idea. Positive motivation helps me "feel" the stroke better in workouts and drop time.

Red60
March 9th, 2009, 12:44 PM
Well, I did get the splits, and it's ugly. I went out in 36.6, came back in 45.0! Oops, I guess there's work to do on the back half. Gotta get smoother, more efficient. And finally suck it up and start to lift, do dryland core work, and drop some pounds.

But at least I can say that I did it--haven't done anything that scared me like that in a while...

aquaFeisty
March 9th, 2009, 07:09 PM
Congrats, Red! I don't think that coming back in 45 is bad at all... heck, isn't a 36-mid about what you take your 200 IM out in? And for that event you get a nice 50 rest, uh I mean backstroke, after that...

NOW you are ready to take on the 400 IM! :-)

david.margrave
March 10th, 2009, 02:44 AM
Personally I prefer the 50 fly. I can muscle my way through it with my less than ideal technique, and it's over fairly quickly.

david.margrave
March 10th, 2009, 02:51 AM
Well, I did get the splits, and it's ugly. I went out in 36.6, came back in 45.0! Oops, I guess there's work to do on the back half. Gotta get smoother, more efficient. And finally suck it up and start to lift, do dryland core work, and drop some pounds.

But at least I can say that I did it--haven't done anything that scared me like that in a while...


That's the tricky part. Your inclination would be to slow down somewhat the first 50 to conserve energy. But there's a certain minimum energy it takes to swim fly efficiently, at least the way I do it. If I slow down past that point, I think it takes as much or more energy to go slower.

I think the best way to train is just do 100 flys in practice. I don't enter the 100 fly unless I've been specifically training for it. We don't do a lot of fly in my group because we'd smack arms constantly. So I wait until people leave towards the end of the workout, and grab a whole lane if available for doing lots of fly.

Red60
April 3rd, 2012, 12:18 AM
This is an ancient thread.

An update: I swam the 100 fly SCY last weekend for the second time in my life, three years after the first (which was the subject of this thread at the time). A modest note, to say that in three years, my fly has improved, if not dramatically, substantially.

Last time I swam 1:21.66. This time, I swam a 1:17.81, with splits as follows:

36.19
41.62

which beats the 36/45 I posted three years ago.

My 50 has dropped to 30.94, which suggests I could swim the race more aggressively; I had pledged to do so to myself, but on the block I had to suppress a near panic attack, and got myself to swim the event only by mentally downgrading the experience to a mere workout.

No piano fell. Although I could kick a great deal more, and my SDKs should be more numerous and propel me further, the whole thing was unremarkable. Which is awesome. And which brings the 400 IM into the conversation, for the first time ever.

I write with a ceremonial offering of thanks to the forumites who have built such an excellent library of posts, to which I have referred many times. (Given that 50 time, which I aspire to sneak under 30, does anyone have any insights on a proper goal for a 100? I'm all ears!)

But mostly I'm happy and thankful. :)

That Guy
April 3rd, 2012, 10:18 AM
This is an ancient thread.

An update: I swam the 100 fly SCY last weekend for the second time in my life, three years after the first (which was the subject of this thread at the time). A modest note, to say that in three years, my fly has improved, if not dramatically, substantially.

Last time I swam 1:21.66. This time, I swam a 1:17.81, with splits as follows:

36.19
41.62

which beats the 36/45 I posted three years ago.

My 50 has dropped to 30.94, which suggests I could swim the race more aggressively; I had pledged to do so to myself, but on the block I had to suppress a near panic attack, and got myself to swim the event only by mentally downgrading the experience to a mere workout.

No piano fell. Although I could kick a great deal more, and my SDKs should be more numerous and propel me further, the whole thing was unremarkable. Which is awesome. And which brings the 400 IM into the conversation, for the first time ever.

I write with a ceremonial offering of thanks to the forumites who have built such an excellent library of posts, to which I have referred many times. (Given that 50 time, which I aspire to sneak under 30, does anyone have any insights on a proper goal for a 100? I'm all ears!)

But mostly I'm happy and thankful. :) Great job! For a 50 of 30.94, textbook ideal splitting for the 100 would be something like 31.94 + 33.94 = 1:05.88. So a goal of 1:06 to 1:07 is doable but aggressive. (Almost no one can attain ideal splitting like that; I certainly haven't)

Red60
April 3rd, 2012, 10:37 AM
Great job! For a 50 of 30.94, textbook ideal splitting for the 100 would be something like 31.94 + 33.94 = 1:05.88. So a goal of 1:06 to 1:07 is doable but aggressive. (Almost no one can attain ideal splitting like that; I certainly haven't)

Thanks, TG. Getting below 1:10 would be awesome, though I confess that seems like a distant target! I think my age group NQT is 1:07. That's a lot of fly in practice, I'd bet. But I'm motivated.

I got some coaching after my 50; his advice was to sink more effort into the SDK and travel further underwater. Which is tangible, at least...

vimier
April 3rd, 2012, 02:30 PM
Congrats! Hundred fly really is not that bad :)

Chris Stevenson
April 3rd, 2012, 02:48 PM
Great job! For a 50 of 30.94, textbook ideal splitting for the 100 would be something like 31.94 + 33.94 = 1:05.88. So a goal of 1:06 to 1:07 is doable but aggressive. (Almost no one can attain ideal splitting like that; I certainly haven't)

I disagree that a differential of 2.0 sec is ideal in the 100 fly. The first 50 benefits from a start (say 1.5 sec) and the 2nd 50 is disadvantaged because of the open turn (say 1.0 sec from the time your hand hits to when your feet leave the wall).

So even without fatigue you are talking about 2.5 sec difference. Even when I feel pretty strong on the 2nd half I usually have about a 3.0-3.2 sec difference. (Compare this to a typical 1.0-1.5 diff in backstroke for me: less advantage on the start, and a foot touch on the first 50.)

I agree that for the first 50, a well-trained masters swimmer should be about 1.0 sec from his top speed 50 in the 100 fly. The elite swimmers (Phelps et al) will be closer than that.

orca1946
April 3rd, 2012, 04:19 PM
Fly is my friend! It makes all the other strokes easier!! :applaud: