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rtodd
March 9th, 2009, 08:06 PM
Swimming my first 1000 free Sunday. How should this be paced based on the 500? If I average 1:14's for the 500, can I hold this or will breakfeast reverse on me?

thewookiee
March 9th, 2009, 08:23 PM
Swimming my first 1000 free Sunday. How should this be paced based on the 500? If I average 1:14's for the 500, can I hold this or will breakfeast reverse on me?

If this is your 1st one, swim at a controlled pace...one that doesn't feel like you are doing to hurl after the 200. Maybe try to buid each 100 after the 500

Better yet, have your head checked to make sure you don't have brain damage and then decide if you want to swim it.

rtodd
March 9th, 2009, 08:26 PM
The 500 didn't cause any brain damage......will the 1000?

thewookiee
March 9th, 2009, 08:29 PM
The 500 didn't cause any brain damage......will the 1000?

Well, Geek likes to swim the 1000...I will let you determine you answer based on that fact. :)

Coll Swims
March 9th, 2009, 08:33 PM
I'll be doing the 1,000 along with you on Sunday. I usually attempt even splitting my 500's. Try and keep your stroke long throughout the swim. Don't rush your stroke. You can also try and descend by 250's. It helps to break up the swim.

Good luck with the swim at see you at the pool.

rtodd
March 9th, 2009, 08:34 PM
If this is your 1st one, swim at a controlled pace...one that doesn't feel like you are doing to hurl after the 200. Maybe try to buid each 100 after the 500

Build each 100 but only descend the last 100? Keep the rest even?

thewookiee
March 9th, 2009, 08:37 PM
Build each 100 but only descend the last 100? Keep the rest even?

Swim the first 500 in a comfortable, controlled pace. The second 500, feel like you are building each 100 within that 500. Feel as though you maybe negative splitting the race. You dont want to go out so fast that each 100 gets a lot slower.

As this is your first one, swim it, try to feel as though you went faster on the second half, get your splits, study them for the next one

rtodd
March 9th, 2009, 08:40 PM
I'll be doing the 1,000 along with you on Sunday. I usually attempt even splitting my 500's. Try and keep your stroke long throughout the swim. Don't rush your stroke. You can also try and descend by 250's. It helps to break up the swim.


Good advice. See you there!

One thing I try in the 500 is to keep the stroke count the same so I establish a rythm with my turns. Toward the end of a 500 I start getting close to needing an extra stroke. I think I will try to hold the stroke count.

qbrain
March 9th, 2009, 08:42 PM
My advice, don'tdoitdon'tdoitdon'tdoit.

Feel free to ignore my advice at your own peril.

Good luck.

I do have some anti-advice! Don't go all out the first 50 and hold on for the last 950.

rtodd
March 9th, 2009, 08:43 PM
Swim the first 500 in a comfortable, controlled pace. The second 500, feel like you are building each 100 within that 500. Feel as though you maybe negative splitting the race. You dont want to go out so fast that each 100 gets a lot slower.

The idea here is that even though I feel like I am negative splitting, I may not be and it will end up even?

Coll Swims
March 9th, 2009, 08:48 PM
I find if I try to keep my stroke count and build the second half, I'm pretty close to even splitting. If you get short coming into the walls, remember to kick off your turns. Don't panic with the swim. Try and enjoy your first 1,000. There will be 39 others along with you.

thewookiee
March 9th, 2009, 08:49 PM
The idea here is that even though I feel like I am negative splitting, I may not be and it will end up even?

Possibly. An even split isn't a bad thing. Being your first one, don't worry too much about splitting. Get the swim under your belt, then focus on how to split...but if you feel as though you are trying to neg/even split, the race might be enjoyable for you

funkyfish
March 9th, 2009, 08:52 PM
Break it up into 20 50s? :D

tjrpatt
March 9th, 2009, 09:02 PM
Good luck on your 1000. don't got out too hard on the first 500 and then pick it up from there. Since this is your first one, just use this as trial and error so you will know what to or not to do on your next 1000.

pwb
March 10th, 2009, 12:18 AM
Swim the first 500 in a comfortable, controlled pace. The second 500, feel like you are building each 100 within that 500. Feel as though you maybe negative splitting the race. You dont want to go out so fast that each 100 gets a lot slower.

As this is your first one, swim it, try to feel as though you went faster on the second half, get your splits, study them for the next one

Very sound advice. I always find that I actually have to consciously try to really slow down the 1st 200. One thing that really works well for me is to count my strokes during the first 70% of the race. Start counting your strokes on your second 50 and for the next 650, just try to maintain that same stroke count. That should force a long stroke length. I generally start building the last 300. I find if I try to start building on the 6th hundred, I go too hard and get tired.


My advice, don'tdoitdon'tdoitdon'tdoit.

Feel free to ignore my advice at your own peril.


Ignore qbrain's advice; there's no peril.


The idea here is that even though I feel like I am negative splitting, I may not be and it will end up even?

Yes. Even if you positive split, that's not the end of the world. My best 1000 ever was a controlled, but positive split. The key is not to have a "monkey on the back" positive split.

knelson
March 10th, 2009, 12:57 AM
The key is not to have a "monkey on the back" positive split.

And I think someone without much distance experience could easily go out too hard. I think you really need to concentrate on taking it out very easy. It might turn out you'll have some extra energy at the end, but that's better than the alternative!

david.margrave
March 10th, 2009, 02:59 AM
One thing I've played with to try to force myself to follow an even pace is breathing patterns. In the early part of the race, more strokes per breath, and progressively decrease it until I'm breathing every 2 strokes at the end. For example a 400 free LCM I broke into 1/4ths, and my pattern by 100 was 4, 3, 3/2 alternating, and 2. I've found this helps my splits even out. My distance times are nothing to get excited about, but I like it when my splits are all within a second or so (corrected for the start which gives you 1-2 seconds).

Other people have suggested breathing as much as possible, every 2 strokes, the whole race. In that case I guess you just have to have a very well-developed sense of pacing.

Rykno
March 10th, 2009, 05:45 AM
I swam my first 800m last year.

swam it
1:10.64
2:25.98
3:43.31
5:02.59

6:23.96
7:45.93
9:07.21
10:26.62 (~5:24)

roughly 1:10, 1:15, 1:18, 1:19, 1:21, 1;21, 1:22, 1:19

I later that meet swam the 400m in 5:02 so something wasn't right with that swim.

now I can swim the 400m in 4:41, my goal for this years 800m is under 10:00 or faster, hoping that I don't go over 1:15

But it's diffinetly something you have to learn to race and you can only do that by swimming it in meets.

aquageek
March 10th, 2009, 07:51 AM
I tend to practice and race the 1000 at 500 pace +:02/100. I find the 1000 to be the most enjoyable of the distance genre. Even the 500 these days is become a controlled sprint.

isobel
March 10th, 2009, 08:13 AM
You could try my pain-free method. Take the first 500 out nice and easy, then swim the second 500 fifteen seconds faster without any noticeable pain.

Sadly, my time was the same as when I killed myself in the first 500 the previous time I "raced" the 1000.

Obviously pacing is important.

This year, in approximately one week and four days, I too will be swimming the 1000. I am going to try to find that magical place where I am pushing myself hard but not hating swimming for 36 lengths. Also, I am going to be at one with whatever pain occurs and then concentrate on the pretty, pretty tiles on the bottom of the pool, oh what pretty tiles, oh still on the teens, oh well, what pretty tiles, etcetera.

Generally I go for low standards: finish, and don't DQ. Anything else is a plus.

Good luck.

You can see that I am obviously an elite and highly competitive swimmer (not). I do wonder why I always sign up for the 1000. It is my best event, but most puzzling in terms of strategy.

qbrain
March 10th, 2009, 10:36 AM
Ignore qbrain's advice; there's no peril.


I am sure rtodd is bright enough to ignore my advice.

Good luck.

knelson
March 10th, 2009, 10:54 AM
roughly 1:10, 1:15, 1:18, 1:19, 1:21, 1;21, 1:22, 1:19

I would have thought you must really have been hurting, but you were able to speed up for your final 100, so hard to say. Perhaps you just need to work on your pacing more. Twelve seconds between your fastest and slowest 100s is huge. Somewhere around five seconds is probably ideal.

greenpeas
March 10th, 2009, 12:12 PM
Keep your goggles no matter what.
My first 1000 in a meet, my goggles fell off, and I threw them away.
No pacing in that race, just trying to see the wall.

One under your belt, you should have a good feel for it now on.
My favorite distance race, other than OW!!!!

Michelina
March 10th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Swimming my first 1000 free Sunday. How should this be paced based on the 500? If I average 1:14's for the 500, can I hold this or will breakfeast reverse on me?

I lived my young life as a distance swimmer and now as a master, I am still doing it. The best advice I can give is:

- do not to pace off anyone (I cant tell you how many times i got "hooked" going out fast with someone or having some sand-bagger in my heat that is really 40 seconds faster than the time they entered):bouncing:
- make sure to talk to your counter and have a game plan on where you want to be at the different points in the race and what signals to use with the counter (I use 500 & 800 to see if I am on pace):blah:
- try to work your turns. Its amazing how much time you can shave off just by working your turns. :bliss:

GOOD LUCK!

rtodd
March 10th, 2009, 07:34 PM
[do not to pace off anyone (I cant tell you how many times i got "hooked" going out fast with someone or having some sand-bagger in my heat that is really 40 seconds faster than the time they entered)/QUOTE]

Thanks for the good advice. I am sandbagging just a bit because I did not want to be in the final heat since I am also swimming the next event. I will tip off my lane mates before the race. Sandbagging a sprint is no big deal, but in an aerobic effort, it is nice to what people around you are going to do.

[QUOTE]My first 1000 in a meet, my goggles fell off, and I threw them away.

In a 1000, I would stop and put them back on!

orca1946
March 10th, 2009, 07:52 PM
Go out at a comfy pace then @ 600 start to build up to a faster pace. The 1st will be a trial as will the next 10. Good luck

nkfrench
March 11th, 2009, 01:57 PM
For the long races I start by establishing a breathing rate that I can maintain throughout (how hard I breathe and how often). Then I swim at the threshold that I can with that much oxygen.

After the halfway point I increase my effort each 100 on the turn. Don't accellerate in the middle of the pool, just come off the wall with the new speed.

Usually my problem is starting out too slow then finding myself "stuck" in slow gear and unable to break out to negative split. On my best mile, my first and last 100s were slightly faster; all the other 100s were within 1 second of each other.

The 3rd quarter of the race is the hardest. Hang tough!

rtodd
March 11th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Usually my problem is starting out too slow then finding myself "stuck" in slow gear

I can almost guarantee that won't happen. That's what is making me nervous. Good idea about breaking it into 100's and what you say about coming off the wall with speed. I watched a NCAA 500 and a guy was 6 beat kicking off the wall for 12.5yds then two beat. Interesting.

pwb
March 11th, 2009, 10:29 PM
For the long races I start by establishing a breathing rate that I can maintain throughout (how hard I breathe and how often).

Very good point. Breathe A LOT throughout the race.


I watched a NCAA 500 and a guy was 6 beat kicking off the wall for 12.5yds then two beat. Interesting.

I saw something like that, too. I've recently gotten to the point where I can kick stronger throughout a 400M/500yards, but I still think I'll 2 beat for the first 600 to 700 and then add in a stronger kick through the finish.

rtodd
March 12th, 2009, 08:36 PM
I breathe every stroke, so air should not be a problem. I'll stick with a two beat kick for at least the first 600 and see if I can put in a kick and get the tempo up after that.

heydavis
March 12th, 2009, 09:38 PM
For me, I go out at an initial easy pace to smooth out the excessive nerves/adrenaline. And, like somebody said, don't get caught up in the pace of the guy/gal next to you. Then I build to a solid, rather hard pace...trying to even split. I'll be doing a 1650 in a few weeks and I like to break it up in 10 length segments after about the first 500 yds. I push hard those 10 lengths, then lay up slightly for 2 lengths to let the arms stretch out, easing the pain a bit. The last 200yds is all out. For me, it's all about pain management. :) I do about 19:00 for the 1650.

rtodd
March 12th, 2009, 10:47 PM
You said it. Pain management. Looking forward to it.

I did some short sprints today since I'm entered in a few 50's and 100's and that type of swimming is so much different than distance. Things like front quadrant, long reach, rotation, a bit shorter finish.... It will be hard to switch back and forth in a meet.

ourswimmer
March 13th, 2009, 01:12 AM
You said it. Pain management. Looking forward to it.

Actually, you said it when you began this thread: "Will breakfast reverse on me?"

To me, racing the 800/1000 and 1500/1650 distances is really more about nausea management than about pain management. Pain management is for 200s and the 400/500. (The 100 back and the 50 back are just pain, no management involved.)

If you breathe every stroke and swim steady for 600 and then try to speed up, you will have a fine time. Good luck!

Rykno
March 13th, 2009, 03:01 AM
I would have thought you must really have been hurting, but you were able to speed up for your final 100, so hard to say. Perhaps you just need to work on your pacing more. Twelve seconds between your fastest and slowest 100s is huge. Somewhere around five seconds is probably ideal.

I'll know in just over a week if I can manage that (the five seconds). that would be going out in 1:10 then holding 1:15's since I want to go under 10:00. actually just found out one of the 16yr old girls on our team split 9:52 in her 1500 so I would really like to go under 9:52....