View Full Version : Allowing both the 1000 & 1650 @ Nationals

May 25th, 2003, 07:16 PM
I went to a short course Nationals many years ago (Fort Lauderdale) in which swimmers were allowed to swim both the 1000 and 1650, on the same day. Why is it that distance swimmers must choose between their 2 best events while there are 9 events of 100 yards or less? Also, it seems that distance swimmers are always required to miss the most amount of work since the 1000/1650 are always first (Thursday). I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I'm not sure what the reasoning was for only allowing 1 distance event (outside of time). It seems as if they could be swum on different days as they are at USS Nationals or any USS meet for that matter. Just curious.

Blessed With No Speed

Dominick Aielloeaver
May 25th, 2003, 10:52 PM
I Agree I would have loved to swim both those races.

May 26th, 2003, 12:52 PM
While I would like to see some modification to the rule that says one can only swim either the 1650/1500 or the 1000/800 free , how long do you want the meet to last?

The 2003 Short Course Championship had 240 swimmers in the 1000, which took 4 hours to swim. The 1650 had 203 swimmers which took about 5:22 hours. The meet started at 8 am and finished about 5:30 (which made for a long day in the sun). Also the in the distance events the men and women swam together saving 1-2 hours.

Again, I would be looking for some modification to the rule, but where do we go? How do we make it work?


May 26th, 2003, 01:10 PM
The fear is that in a four-day format, there is not enough time to allow swimmers to take part in both distance races. However, we have come up with some ideas that might allow you to swim both.

At this year's long course nationals, Alex Antoniou, the meet director, is going to give one of them a try. The meet is going to be five days longs rather than four. This change is being made to accommodate requests like rudderboy's.

With the five-day format, the 1500 will be swum on the first day and the 800 is offered on the second day. Distance swimmers making the National Qualifying Time in either the 800 or 1500 may swim both events.

The Championship Committee is hopeful that this will make things a bit fairer for the distance swimmers out there while not making any one day of the meet too long.

Mark Gill

April 27th, 2004, 07:14 PM
We could still do it in four days, either by moving some events to the 1st day and offering the 2nd distance event on a shorter day, or just scheduling the 2nd distance event for the day the 400 IM or 500 don't fall on. For instance, move several shorter events out of Fri, Sat, or Sunday and place the 1000 in their place. Seems like it would only add a marginal amount of time, and it would be much fairer to those who want to swim something besides 100's and 50's. What does anyone think?

Karen Duggan
April 27th, 2004, 10:59 PM
I would love to swim both, especially when I'm so out of shape for shorter stuff!!!

I heard several different people, in Indy, "complaining" about the slower heats of both the 1,000 and the 1,650. I personally would never take away the longer events from anyone no matter how old/young or slow/fast...

I did hear it suggested that perhaps people with slower times (and I don't know what the cutoff would be) could swim it on an extra early day of the meet. One thought was that many of the people who are older (and perhaps) much slower are retired anyway and could go a day early? They're not working (although it is still an extra night for them $$$).

I don't know. Just relaying a suggestion I heard. My thought is that if you're going to do that: 1) that's a big can of worms, and 2) if we move "slower" swimmers for the distance shouldn't we move them for everything else as well? I don't know if I agree with that. Would adding this extra day for some be more beneficial to all? And is it that big a deal waiting for an 83 year old to swim the mile?

I for one would almost prefer an extra day especially when travelling east (to get used to the time change)- but I don't know that I would separate "slower" from everyone else. To me that's kind of against what masters is all about. Rambling on.....

April 28th, 2004, 11:47 AM

This is from the website for the savannah meet and it is not showing a 5-day format

April 28th, 2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by swim53

This is from the website for the savannah meet and it is not showing a 5-day format

the post about the 5 day format was referring to Rutgers not Savannah. it was from before the Rutgers meet had been conducted. Savannah is going with a traditional four day meet.

April 29th, 2004, 06:04 PM
Here's a complaint I have on this subject. At Indy this year, you could not get the discounted hotel rate for Wednesday night (or Sunday night for that matter) - only Thursday thru Saturday nights. Anyone swimming on the distance day would arrive on Wednesday. And many of us who traveled a great distance did not leave until Monday AM. I thought it was pretty unfair that these significant groups of competitors were not considered in arranging for the hotels. Of course, I also found out we were only getting $10 off the rack rate from the hotel anyway, which is pretty lame too. I suppose I'm taking this topic in a whole new direction, but I wanted to get that out there.

April 30th, 2004, 04:17 PM
I really don't want to assist in highjacking this thread, but want to mention that hotel rooms were A LOT cheaper on Priceline. Might want to give it a try next time.

Matt S
April 30th, 2004, 07:55 PM

You argument seems to make sense, but you are assuming away the most significant problem with the 1500/800 double. How many people will chose to swim both? You can't have it both ways. You want to let people swim both events because you think there is a significant number of people who want to do that, but cannot do that now. OK, fair enough. But, if that is the case, all those folks adding either the 1500 or the 800 to their schedule of events (instead of, hypothetically, the 400's they are now swimming) will add significant numbers of heats to both events, and require more time to complete them.

I have no problem with changing the meet to let pure distance folks do both events, but let's be honest with ourselves about what the cost will be.


May 1st, 2004, 07:03 PM
Let me say under the circumstances we got the best hotel rates available for the lead-time we were able to give the hotels. To those who forget, YMCA Indy SwimFit and Indianapolis bid for the Long Course National Championships in 2004 for August at the 2002 USAS Convention, but because USMS did not receive a bid for 2004 Short Course we yielded to Savannah and took SC. In any metropolitan city that has a major event which Indianapolis does with the 500 Mile race hotel space and rates are at premium the last week in April and May because of spectators, race teams and etc coming into the city a month and half prior to the race to test. This is also why we did not host the 2004 SC Championships in May when it is usually held. Additionally, our hotel rates and room blocks had to be renegotiated after our bid. I regret the person who feels he got "ripped off", but I too feel the same way when I go to various meets throughout the country and stay at hotels who quote one rate, then charge a visitors tax, a state tax, a local tax and a landing tax which makes the hotel rate in some cases 15-17% higher than the quoted rate. Before you throw stones look at your own state.

Mel Goldstein, Meet Director
2004 USMS SC Championships

Rob Copeland
May 3rd, 2004, 08:18 AM
Whatís this have to do with swimming the 1000 and 1650 at nationals? Are you implying that some of us should be paying occupancy tax, because of our slow 1650 times?

And by the way congratulations on running an excellent meet!!! Iím sorry I missed it.

May 6th, 2004, 05:32 PM
If someone really wants to swim both the 1000 and 1650, try YMCA Nationals which allows the same swimmer to swim both races on the first day of the meet. http://www.swiminfo.com/lane9/news/7154.asp is an article from swiminfo.com talking about the 5 swimmers who did(and won)the double.

May 6th, 2004, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by beireland
If someone really wants to swim both the 1000 and 1650, try YMCA Nationals which allows the same swimmer to swim both races on the first day of the meet. http://www.swiminfo.com/lane9/news/7154.asp is an article from swiminfo.com talking about the 5 swimmers who did(and won)the double.

Take a look at the name mentioned in the title of the story and now look at the name of the person who started this topic. Obviously Mr. Erwin is a glutton for punishment!

June 1st, 2004, 08:43 PM
Swim the 1650 as events 1 and 2, take everyone's 1000 splits and factor them into the results for events 3 and 4 (the 1000). You can choose to only enter the 1000 but you would need to be aware of how fast the swimmers in your age group were at the 1000 split if you were concerned about your place. No need for an extra day of competition but your 1650 would count as two events.

December 28th, 2004, 10:15 PM
They should have the 1650 at the beginning of the meet and the 1000 at the end of nationals or vice versa. Plus, put some other events on the first day instead of all the long distance races. They did this all the time when I was an age group swimmer in the Regional Championship meets every year. This whole idea of having the 1000 and 1650 on the same day is ludicrous to me even though I don't swim those events that regularly.

December 29th, 2004, 12:23 PM
Last summer, I stayed at a hotel in Brownsburg (Brownsboro, I cna never remember what the scity is called) west of Indy for the 2-mile outdoor swim at Eagle Creek. It was almost 1/2 less than the quoted rate for the hotel in Indy.

Also, isn't this a membership organization? The quickest way to lose members is to tell them what they can't have or do!!

December 29th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Have two venues in the same city? One for the 1650 and 1000 and one for the sprints and middle distance events.

January 2nd, 2005, 12:02 AM
WOW! Laineybug...that is a brilliant and creative idea that just might solve the problem!