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TRYM_Swimmer
March 28th, 2009, 10:47 AM
Today's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/health/nutrition/26best.html?_r=1&em

Personal testimonies? I know some have mentioned energy drinks in the past.

orca1946
March 28th, 2009, 03:30 PM
So, is coffee legal??

chaos
March 28th, 2009, 06:09 PM
coffee (espresso) is an essential life supporting substance like air and hot sauce. i couldn't perform simple tasks like pulling on my underwear or flipping the bird to other motorists without it.

jim clemmons
March 28th, 2009, 06:44 PM
I believe I've had a few events or so where the outcome was better than it would have been because of caffeine intake. :cool:

Jazz Hands
March 28th, 2009, 06:49 PM
So, is coffee legal??

USMS has no drug testing, and I don't even think there's a stated drug policy. You can shoot up testosterone if you want.

ande
March 30th, 2009, 03:07 PM
for years, many elite swimmers have been loading up on coffee right before races in big meets.

I never have

Might try it sometime

Chris Stevenson
March 30th, 2009, 04:01 PM
for years, many elite swimmers have been loading up on coffee right before races in big meets.

I never have

Might try it sometime

Wait a minute...you grew your nails out but didn't have some coffee before warmup??? :anim_coffee:

jim clemmons
March 30th, 2009, 04:09 PM
Wait a minute...you grew your nails out but didn't have some coffee before warmup??? :anim_coffee:

Really, it takes you months before you get your payback for growing long nails and that's probably marginal help, at best.

"Coffee assistance" is only 45-60 minutes away if you plan well. And, personally, I think the assistance potential is far greater than longer nails.

SLOmmafan
March 30th, 2009, 06:13 PM
I wonder about the ever popular energy drinks - mainly Rockstar, Monster, Red Bull, etc. There you often times have the added sugar (I assume a negative) but you get like 3 coffee cups worth of caffeine. I know that they sure make me jittery, if nothing else!

fatboy
March 30th, 2009, 06:30 PM
Since Ande is contemplating trying coffee as a way to "Swim Faster Faster", can we look forward to some new tips on planning when to have your pre-race esspresso with the timing of how long it takes to put on your favorite tech-suit. This may turn out to be as complex as planning your taper....

:)

Jazz Hands
March 30th, 2009, 07:59 PM
I think caffeine takes about 30 minutes to kick in. That's what a neuroscience professor told me, and he has an advanced degree in science!

The Fortress
March 30th, 2009, 08:35 PM
I think caffeine takes about 30 minutes to kick in. That's what a neuroscience professor told me, and he has an advanced degree in science!

The non-B70 wearing Jimby has told me that jolt gum, chewed and placed under the tongue, hits the nervous system in 15 minutes!

I wish good espresso were available at all masters meets.

hofffam
March 30th, 2009, 09:09 PM
So many people talk about caffeine and specific drinks. They say stuff like Monster has 3x what coffee has. Etc. All you have to do is read labels.

Caffeine content for MANY common drinks is available here (http://www.energyfiend.com/the-caffeine-database).

Some highlights:

Brewed (drip) coffee (8 oz) - 145 mg
Red Bull (8.3 oz) - 80 mg
Monster (16 oz) - 160 mg
Espresso (1.5 oz) - 77 mg
Coke classic (12 oz) - 34.5 mg
Rockstar (16 oz) - 160 mg

I'm with Chaos by the way. Coffee is an essential part of my daily happiness. Perhaps because of that caffeine has little ability to energize me before racing.

knelson
March 31st, 2009, 01:34 AM
I think caffeine takes about 30 minutes to kick in.

Just enough time to make you have to pee right before your event!

USMSarah
March 31st, 2009, 01:43 PM
After reading this thread, I tried a 12 oz Red Bull before practice. I usually don't drink caffeine, so I thought I would get a boost of extra energy... nothing happened.

Thrashing Slug
March 31st, 2009, 01:59 PM
ugh, Red Bull tastes nasty. Why use medicinal caffeine when there are so many delicious varieties?

I like Yerba Mate with honey. If you make it in a drip coffeemaker it comes out very strong and provides lasting energy without all the twitchiness of coffee or energy drinks. Also high in vitamins and antioxidants.

jordangregory
April 1st, 2009, 06:16 PM
anyone using baking soda?

swimmj
April 1st, 2009, 06:28 PM
Just enough time to make you have to pee right before your event!

Yes, this makes the timing of getting into the race suit even more difficult. When will I have to pee? Oh, of course, right after I get the suit on....

geochuck
April 19th, 2009, 01:44 PM
April 20th is National Weed Smoking Day in Canada. The Vancouver smoke in is being held in front of Art Gallery. A couple of Canadian Olympic Gold Medalists will be there I wonder about the USA Gold Medalists are they coming to Vancouver to join in???

Here is a report about what we call our day in dowtown Vancouver http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=05c4a100-bfaa-4fed-9989-9c118586acc0&k=97454

Bobinator
April 19th, 2009, 02:25 PM
I tried some baking soda in a couple of practices and felt really good.
I've never used it in a meet....I sort of forgot about it till i read your posting. Maybe I'll try it in my next meet. :applaud:

qbrain
April 19th, 2009, 03:34 PM
anyone using baking soda?

Tums might be easier to try and, in theory, should do the exact same thing.

Speedo
April 19th, 2009, 09:07 PM
I married a well-known caffeine researcher who also studies nicotine. I've talked to her a few times about caffeine and athletic performance but have not tried it at a meet yet. She verified the 30-50 minute delay for peak performance after caffeine intake, although we may feel 'better' almost instantaneously.

Her take is although the effect of caffeine will vary by individual, and by a host of other factors that people cite after a good/bad swim, the degree of athletic enhancement is an empirical test (has been tested in the population and can be tested on an individual basis in athletes that complete against a clock).

She mentioned that results are more measureable with elite athletes, where performance tends to be less variable. Sounds sort of like the tech suit issue- small benefits are "priced-in" to the time but hard to isolate as due to one factor.

What I found interesting was the calcium release issue- does this assist muscle contraction or something? I always thought that increased heart rate and general peppiness were the only benefits, and short-term at that.

isobel
April 20th, 2009, 12:41 AM
USMS has no drug testing, and I don't even think there's a stated drug policy. You can shoot up testosterone if you want.

At Worlds in 2006 at Stanford, there was a written policy that if anyone set a world record they would be drug tested. Or perhaps I dreamed this. And maybe Worlds is sponsored by FINA not by USMS so they have a different policy.

I found it reassuring. Except for caffeine, I want masters to stay clean. If people start doping for masters, then I will know they don't have much else going on in their lives.

Ooh, I can tell I might get smacked for that last comment.

lefty
April 20th, 2009, 09:51 AM
I married a well-known caffeine researcher who also studies nicotine.

Really. I wasn't aware there was a well-kown caffience researcher!

Speedo
April 20th, 2009, 10:07 AM
Really. I wasn't aware there was a well-kown caffience researcher!
Sorry, let me clarify. Well-known among addiction researchers, little known among masters swimming forumites.

geochuck
April 20th, 2009, 10:26 AM
I am not considered a well known caffien researcher, I think they cal me a caffien connoisseur. When we swam the marathon races we used a caffien powder mixed in our feedings. Not illegal in the 60's.

Really. I wasn't aware there was a well-kown caffience researcher!

TRYM_Swimmer
April 20th, 2009, 06:12 PM
Tums might be easier to try and, in theory, should do the exact same thing.

OMG, I think Tums were a hot topic a few years ago and it was estimated that you needed 50 or so to make a difference. Can someone verify or point out the thread?

ourswimmer
April 20th, 2009, 06:45 PM
I married a well-known caffeine researcher who also studies nicotine. I've talked to her a few times about caffeine and athletic performance.

Have you ever asked your spouse about the effects of nicotine on athletic performance? Are there any studies? I am just really curious about why you never hear about people getting revved up on nicotine gum or patches the way you hear about them chewing Jolt gum or drinking lots of coffee.

Speedo
April 22nd, 2009, 09:26 PM
Have you ever asked your spouse about the effects of nicotine on athletic performance? Are there any studies? I am just really curious about why you never hear about people getting revved up on nicotine gum or patches the way you hear about them chewing Jolt gum or drinking lots of coffee.
OK, here's what I gathered from our conversation about nicotine. Apparently, caffeine and nicotine affect different neurotransmitter systems, so although they are both stimulants, the effects on performance are different. Caffeine is both thermogenic (burns calories) and ergogenic (stimulates physical performance in general) but doesn't cause some of the negative side effects at low doses that nicotine does (e.g., nausea, vomiting).

Caffeine blocks adenosine. Too much adenosine makes you tired and fatigued, so when caffeine is introduced it blocks adenosine receptors and alleviates fatigue.

Nicotine binds with Acetylcholine receptors and stimulates similarly to Acetylcholine. But the body cannot regulate nicotine like it can with Acetylcholine, so we end up feeling nauseous, which is not desireable during competition. I suppose there is a fine line with doseage, because she mentioned that the amount of nicotine a smoker consumes in a day is a dose that could kill a non-smoker.

geochuck
April 22nd, 2009, 10:24 PM
And then we have Chris Chataway a heavy smoking track and field star who disproved all the don't smoke rules. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Chataway

jim thornton
April 22nd, 2009, 10:43 PM
Pete, I've heard that the caffeine's alleged abilities to mobilize fat stores for faster burning during endurance exercise has largely been kiboshed, and that most researchers now conclude that its sports enhancing effects are almost entirely motivational. Moreover, contrary to popular wisdom, it's not a diuretic (so there's no need to drink more water to properly hydrate after a cup of coffee!)

In terms of getting the most bang for the buck out of caffeine, a woman named Ann Grandjean (spelling?) , a past nutritionist for the US Olympic teams, told me that you should let yourself go "caffeine naive" for a week or two before your meet, then take a moderate dose before your event. Jolt gum does seem to hit your brain faster than a cup of coffee, especially if you chew a few chicklets several times and stick the wad under your tongue for speedy buccal membrane absorption!

As far as nicotine goes, you are correct about it mimicking acetylcholine. This, in turn, ends up lighting a neuronal fuse of sorts which courses through specific areas of your brain, eventually releasing a spurt of dopamine, a neurotransmitter associated with drive, reward, and pleasure.

Most healthy and adaptive human behaviors, from drinking water when we're thirsty, to having sex, result in a similar release of dopamine. It's apparently a pretty strong reinforcement for steering us in the right direction vis a vis survival and reproduction.

Unfortunately, hijacking of the dopamine system--by cocaine, nicotine, compulsive gambling, and the host of other substances and behaviors--appears to be the sina qua non of all addictions.

I haven't heard of nicotine or cocaine, for that matter, being particularly helpful in sports performance. I suppose you could train a rat to train harder, and perhaps a swimmer, by intermittently giving him a reward at the end of practice.

Ask your wife if there is any reason to imagine addictive compounds would help performance during a race. Maybe amphetamines can make you work out harder than you otherwise might, increasing your endurance if you don't expire first. but I just don't see nicotine doing much.

CAZ99
April 23rd, 2009, 12:00 AM
:D what about HGH? is that legal?

ourswimmer
April 23rd, 2009, 12:16 AM
OK, here's what I gathered from our conversation about nicotine. Apparently, caffeine and nicotine affect different neurotransmitter systems, so although they are both stimulants, the effects on performance are different.

Thanks for asking for me!


I've heard that the caffeine's alleged abilities to mobilize fat stores for faster burning during endurance exercise has largely been kiboshed, and that most researchers now conclude that its sports enhancing effects are almost entirely motivational.

If the effect were entirely motivational, then nicotine and caffeine and cocaine would work the same way to improve athletic performance. You'd just have to get the dose and timing right.


Ask your wife if there is any reason to imagine addictive compounds would help performance during a race.

Caffeine is highly addictive. Just ask someone who normally drinks three cups each morning and then tries going "caffeine-naive" how her head feels on Day 3. Caffeine's extreme addictiveness is why my backpacking checklist includes No-Doz.

Chris Stevenson
May 5th, 2009, 01:03 PM
Maybe old hat to some of you, but I discovered the "Energy Fiend (http://www.energyfiend.com/)" site and particularly got a kick (no pun intended) out of this section (http://www.energyfiend.com/death-by-caffeine).

chaos
May 5th, 2009, 01:11 PM
Maybe old hat to some of you, but I discovered the "Energy Fiend (http://www.energyfiend.com/)" site and particularly got a kick (no pun intended) out of this section (http://www.energyfiend.com/death-by-caffeine).


great site!
146.5 shots of espresso to kill me...... i guess i haven't come that close after all.

chaos
May 5th, 2009, 01:16 PM
Caffeine's extreme addictiveness is why my backpacking checklist includes No-Doz.

get one of these instead.... i love mine

http://studenttravel.about.com/od/backpackercooking/a/espresso.htm

jim clemmons
May 5th, 2009, 01:23 PM
Had to smile at the disclaimer:

Disclaimer
This tool is intended as humor - and is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing on here should be construed as medical advice or information. Do not try this at home. If you actually try this and end up dying after only 140 energy drinks instead of 143, it's not our fault.
All brand names are property of their registered trademark and copyright owners. Some drinks have the potential to be very, very dangerous before lethal levels: do not be stupid.

At least I have no worries about Red Bull - 183.8 cans to kill me, the cost equivalent of a B70 knee skin.

Karen Duggan
May 5th, 2009, 01:30 PM
It would take over 300 cans of Coke to do me in. Although I suspect my body would go into convulsions and vomiting around can 10.

Pretty pathetic that they need to put that disclaimer. Funny thing is that the people that would actually TRY it are the ones who won't read the disclaimer!

geochuck
May 5th, 2009, 01:38 PM
The old story is that any carbonated beverage hinders the transfer of oxygen to the blood. So we would get rid of the bubbles then drink the coke.

I am not sure if this is true. Or we wood just buy the cocacola syrup and mix it with a little water.

TRYM_Swimmer
May 5th, 2009, 01:51 PM
Maybe old hat to some of you, but I discovered the "Energy Fiend (http://www.energyfiend.com/)" site and particularly got a kick (no pun intended) out of this section (http://www.energyfiend.com/death-by-caffeine).

Phew, I drink somewhat less than 77 cups of Drip Coffee a day!

funkyfish
May 6th, 2009, 09:51 PM
Maybe old hat to some of you, but I discovered the "Energy Fiend (http://www.energyfiend.com/)" site and particularly got a kick (no pun intended) out of this section (http://www.energyfiend.com/death-by-caffeine).
217 cans of Mountain Dew would do me in. Good thing, that means I've got 216 cans to play around with:D