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DanSad
April 10th, 2009, 12:28 PM
Looking for help on estimating a time. If my 100yard breaststroke time is 1:09.4, what would you predict for a 200yard breaststroke time?

I know it depends if I'm more sprint or distance oriented, a range is fine, but I'd say I'm in the middle of the road in terms of endurnce.

jim clemmons
April 10th, 2009, 12:48 PM
Looking for help on estimating a time. If my 100yard breaststroke time is 1:09.4, what would you predict for a 200yard breaststroke time?

I know it depends if I'm more sprint or distance oriented, a range is fine, but I'd say I'm in the middle of the road in terms of endurnce.

I'd predict a 2:35 +/- 2.5 secs if you don't blow it going out too hard the first 75.

mctrusty
April 10th, 2009, 01:48 PM
I'm middle distance all the way, I just went
1:09.80 in the 100 br
2:30.82 in the 200 br

My goggles filled up in the 100, though, so I was prolly a hair slower than I would've gone without a goggle mishap.

knelson
April 10th, 2009, 01:55 PM
2:32.93

I went to USA Swimming's Power Point calculator and your 100 breast time gives you 370 points. 370 points for a 200 breast is 2:32.93.

http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=834&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en

smontanaro
April 10th, 2009, 02:52 PM
I went to USA Swimming's Power Point calculator ...

I tried that out, entering 1:10.00 for 100 free (SCY). Unfortunately the age only goes up to 40 (what's up with that?). I clicked calculate and it returned "1". Guess that means I'm a (55yo) wimp?

Skip

ande
April 10th, 2009, 03:05 PM
depends on many things
how well conditioned you are
if you are a sprinter or a middle distance swimmer
how close the 100 time is to your true potential
how your 200 race goes, turns splitting ...

the bench mark how many seconds you have to add when you
double you 100 time

double 100 time & add _____ seconds

06 - 10 : Distance swimmers
10 - 14 : Typical 100 swimmers
14 - 20 : sprinters, bad splitters, & poorly conditioned swimmers

my guess is 2:33

1:09 + 1:09 + 15 = 2:33
now find out.



Looking for help on estimating a time. If my 100yard breaststroke time is 1:09.4, what would you predict for a 200yard breaststroke time?

I know it depends if I'm more sprint or distance oriented, a range is fine, but I'd say I'm in the middle of the road in terms of endurnce.

knelson
April 10th, 2009, 03:38 PM
Unfortunately the age only goes up to 40

Any age 18 and up gives the same result.

Glider
April 10th, 2009, 03:55 PM
I'm a double plus 15-20 kind of breaststroker - drop dead sprinter. 1:03, 2:25.

Allen Stark
April 11th, 2009, 12:38 AM
depends on many things
how well conditioned you are
if you are a sprinter or a middle distance swimmer
how close the 100 time is to your true potential
how your 200 race goes, turns splitting ...

the bench mark how many seconds you have to add when you
double you 100 time

double 100 time & add _____ seconds

06 - 10 : Distance swimmers
10 - 14 : Typical 100 swimmers
14 - 20 : sprinters, bad splitters, & poorly conditioned swimmers

my guess is 2:33

1:09 + 1:09 + 15 = 2:33
now find out.

Ande's estimations are great,but as you can see from it there could be a 14 sec difference depending on your type.How did you split your 100?How good are you at pacing? I was looking at some of the Top Ten times and peoples 100 to 200 were all over the place.You just need to swim it and let us know.

Rykno
April 11th, 2009, 02:33 AM
I'd guess 2:30-2:35

the key to a good time in the 200 is being able to keep your underwater pullouts long and effective.



double 100 time & add _____ seconds

06 - 10 : Distance swimmers
10 - 14 : Typical 100 swimmers
14 - 20 : sprinters, bad splitters, & poorly conditioned swimmers


I was a 1:03 / 2:18 yds swimmer before quitting (15s)

currently a 1:13 / 2:41 meters swimmer. (28s)

but hoping to get to 1:11 / 2:35 over the next 17 months.

ande
April 11th, 2009, 01:26 PM
RYKNO

YOU DID YOUR MATH WRONG

63 + 63 = 126
2:18 = 138 sec
138 - 126 = 12 sec


1:13 + 1:13 = 2:26
2:41 - 2:26 = 15 SEC


I'd guess 2:30-2:35

the key to a good time in the 200 is being able to keep your underwater pullouts long and effective.



I was a 1:03 / 2:18 yds swimmer before quitting (15s)

currently a 1:13 / 2:41 meters swimmer. (28s)

but hoping to get to 1:11 / 2:35 over the next 17 months.

SwimStud
April 11th, 2009, 01:37 PM
2:32.93

I went to USA Swimming's Power Point calculator and your 100 breast time gives you 370 points. 370 points for a 200 breast is 2:32.93.

http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=834&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en

This thing is pretty darn good. I go about 1:19 for the 100 and that gave 109 points which puts the 200 about 2:54...thats pretty much spot on.

Rykno
April 11th, 2009, 02:12 PM
RYKNO

YOU DID YOUR MATH WRONG



oops, your're right....I guess it's not a good idea to post with one arm while holding a sick squirming baby in the other.

now I feel better about my times.

DanSad
April 11th, 2009, 05:03 PM
Thanks for all the input. I'm swimming the 50, 100, and 200 breast next weekend so I'll let you know how I did. I entered a 2:32.00

Last meet I did:
32.17 for the 50
1:09.41 for the 100 (33.12/36.29)

aztimm
April 12th, 2009, 01:25 AM
The last time I did a 100 and 200 breast (SCY) at the same meet, my times were something like--

100: 1:13
200: 2:38

At the time I was swimming about 3-4 days/week, with no other exercise. I was more of a mid-distance swimmer.

Right now, I'd love to swim times like those. Funny, as I've lost weight and my free has gotten faster, my breast has slowed (I do around a 2:50 for 200 in workout now, and around 1:20 for a 100). But then again, I don't swim nearly as much non-free as I used to. I also think running has taken a toll on my legs for doing breast.

DanSad
April 20th, 2009, 10:40 AM
Wanted to give an update to those of offered predictions.

As I mentioned previously in the thread the meet prior I went:
32.17 for the 50
1:09.41 for the 100 (33.12/36.29)

This weekend I went:
31.17 for the 50
1:08.54 for the 100, no splits yet
2:36.29 for the 200, no splits yet

I tried to take Jim's advice and go out easy on the first 75, which I did, but I didn't feel like I had a ton of energy on the back half though. Maybe the splits will tell the story.

DanSad
April 21st, 2009, 02:24 PM
Splits...

This weekend I went:
31.17 for the 50

1:08.54 for the 100
32.27 - 36.27

2:36.29 for the 200
34.01 - 39.83 (1:13.84)
41.47 - 40.98 (1:22.45)

hofffam
April 21st, 2009, 03:04 PM
I like the splits for the 100 a lot. I think you swam it very well. I recently swam a 1:06.85 100 breast with 31.45/35.40 splits. My best time and the race felt really good overall.

I can't really comment on the 200 since I don't race it (maybe someday). It seems the splits are a bit far apart between the 100s. Your 4th 50 was faster than your 3rd 50.

Justin Ritter
April 21st, 2009, 03:29 PM
Generally, for all strokes for the 200, it's ideal for your last three 50 splits to be roughly the same, but that can be hard to do in breaststroke especially.

What I try to do, and I've had my most successful 200 breasts doing it, is to hold back a little bit more than I think I should on the first 50, you always go faster than you think you are. Then try to hold the same pace on the second 50, which actually means about 3-4 seconds slower. Really kick it into gear and speed up the third 50, this is the make or break, it hurts like nothing else in the 2-breast but if you pull it off your third 50 will be about the same speed as the second. And for the last 50 tell yourself you only need to get through one more 50 and you might just survive. The adrenaline should carry you to a third 50 in a row at about the same pace. Then while you're trying to figure out how you're going to climb out of the pool in a somewhat dignified manner you'll probably tell yourself you're never swimming it again. Until later that evening when you're analyzing your splits and figuring out how you're going to drop a few seconds next time. Getting a good time in the 200 breast is the most satisfying thing in swimming, for me. You really feel like you earned it.

If you can go a 31 and a 1:08 I bet with some conditioning you can be under 2:30 in the 200 no problem. In a perfect world you'd probably want to split it 34, 38, 38, 38 with the added tenths here and there that should put you at 2:29 or so. To do that though you need to do a lot of breast in practice. You should be able to do 37s and 38s from a push without killing yourself. If you can get down to where you can do a 1:15 for a 100 from a push without dying you'll be in good shape.

Good luck with your future 200s. This is an awful, awful event to swim but if you can master it you can say that you've perfected the hardest event in swimming.

ande
April 21st, 2009, 03:58 PM
nice 50 & 100
looks like you are a sprinter & had issues with your 200

you did a pretty good job holding around the same time on your 2nd, 3rd & 4th 50's but when we compare your
1st 50 with your 2nd, 3rd, & 4th 50's or your
first 100 to your 2nd 100
it looks like you had way too much of a drop off

3 seconds slower than your 50 time is a good way to go out, maybe a touch too hard, usually whatever you hold back on the first 100 you'll gain that plus more on the 2nd 100

What suit did you wear?


below are times & splits from the 200 breast finals at the 2009 Div 1 Mens NCAAs

Event 18 Men 200 Yard Breaststroke
================================================== ======
Invited Time: 1:56.07
NCAA: N 1:51.96 3/28/2009 Sean R Mahoney, CAL-PC
NCAA Meet: M 1:51.96 3/28/2009 Sean R Mahoney, CAL-PC
American: A 1:51.74 3/3/2006 Brenden Hansen, Longhorn Aquatic
US Open: O 1:51.74 3/3/2006 Brendan Hansen, Longhorn Aquatic
Name Year School Prelims Finals Points
================================================== ======

A - Final
1 Versfeld, Neil UGA 1:52.10 1:51.40O 20
r:+0.69 25.12 53.57 (28.45) 1:22.02 (28.45) 1:51.40 (29.38)
2 Mahoney, Sean R CAL 1:51.96 1:52.34 17
r:+0.75 24.79 53.24 (28.45) 1:22.63 (29.39) 1:52.34 (29.71)
3 Kornfeld, Paul STAN 1:53.52 1:52.55 16
r:+0.76 25.52 54.35 (28.83) 1:23.57 (29.22) 1:52.55 (28.98)
4 Klein, Adam AUB 1:53.44 1:52.96 15
r:+0.78 25.28 53.61 (28.33) 1:22.96 (29.35) 1:52.96 (30.00)
5 Criste, John STAN 1:53.56 1:52.98 14
r:+0.83 25.96 54.62 (28.66) 1:23.77 (29.15) 1:52.98 (29.21)
6 Aljand, Martti CAL 1:53.96 1:53.68 13
r:+0.71 25.59 54.58 (28.99) 1:24.03 (29.45) 1:53.68 (29.65)
7 Koon, Nolan CAL 1:53.78 1:53.90 12
r:+0.73 25.70 54.87 (29.17) 1:24.37 (29.50) 1:53.90 (29.53)
8 Burckle, Clark FLOR 1:53.89 1:54.96 11
r:+0.72 25.91 55.14 (29.23) 1:24.73 (29.59) 1:54.96 (30.23)

B - Final
9 Hurley, Ryan UVA 1:54.39 1:53.93 9
r:+0.69 26.14 55.23 (29.09) 1:24.58 (29.35) 1:53.93 (29.35)
10 Magruder, Agustin TEX 1:54.85 1:53.97 7
r:+0.72 25.81 54.57 (28.76) 1:24.02 (29.45) 1:53.97 (29.95)
11 Lovelace, Curtis STAN 1:54.95 1:54.63 6
r:+0.73 26.25 55.51 (29.26) 1:25.05 (29.54) 1:54.63 (29.58)
12 Brown, Jack ARIZ 1:54.05 1:54.91 5
r:+0.76 26.27 55.52 (29.25) 1:25.34 (29.82) 1:54.91 (29.57)
13 Dugonjic, Damir CAL 1:54.07 1:54.99 4
r:+0.80 25.20 54.59 (29.39) 1:24.79 (30.20) 1:54.99 (30.20)
14 Liivamagi, Martin CAL 1:55.22 1:55.31 3
r:+0.74 25.75 54.75 (29.00) 1:24.67 (29.92) 1:55.31 (30.64)
15 Titus, Marcus ARIZ 1:55.11 1:56.31 2
r:+0.71 25.98 55.37 (29.39) 1:25.12 (29.75) 1:56.31 (31.19)
16 Weltz, Scott UCD 1:55.11 1:57.31 1
r:+0.75 26.52 55.89 (29.37) 1:26.27 (30.38) 1:57.31 (31.04)




Splits...

This weekend I went:
31.17 for the 50

1:08.54 for the 100
32.27 - 36.27

2:36.29 for the 200
34.01 - 39.83 (1:13.84)
41.47 - 40.98 (1:22.45)

Allen Stark
April 22nd, 2009, 12:20 AM
Splits...

This weekend I went:
31.17 for the 50

1:08.54 for the 100
32.27 - 36.27

2:36.29 for the 200
34.01 - 39.83 (1:13.84)
41.47 - 40.98 (1:22.45)

100 splits are good.In the 200 it looks like you went out too fast.A 5.8 sec drop off between the first and second 50 is too much.I suspect the slowness of the 3rd 50 was from poor concentration.If my brain goes on walk-about during the 200 my 3rd 50 tends to be slow.I think if you went out in a 35 you could have split 35,39,39,39 for a 2:32.

Knightswimmer2
April 22nd, 2009, 03:12 PM
I personally think you could've taken that first 50 out in a 33 mid, and still have enough in you to split 37, 38, 38...2:27, 2:28.

That third 50 is where you just rely on your technique and the 4th 50 you just go at it with whatever you have left.

DanSad
April 22nd, 2009, 05:07 PM
Ande - you asked what suit I wore. I wore a standard speedo brief. I'm sure if I wore a new tech suit the time would've been better. However, I didn't even wear a cap, they never seem to stay on. Wonder how much time a cap accounts for.

I don't know of any upcoming meets but I'll try and take the advice I've received for next time.

Don't want to make excuses but the poor 200 time could also be a result of a cold I came down with that day. The 100 was on Saturday. The 200 was on Sunday, I felt a little tired during the day on Sunday but attributed it to swimming 10 races in 2 days. By the time Sunday night rolled around however I had a full on head cold.

hofffam
April 22nd, 2009, 09:20 PM
I personally think you could've taken that first 50 out in a 33 mid, and still have enough in you to split 37, 38, 38...2:27, 2:28.

That third 50 is where you just rely on your technique and the 4th 50 you just go at it with whatever you have left.

Don't mean to be argumentative but I disagree.

An elite swimmer like Paul Kornfeld - finalist in both the 100 and 200 at NCAAs swam a 52.05/1:52.55 for a multiple of 2.16.

Your suggestion for the OP is an even tighter multiple of 2.15. I think very few non-elite swimmers can do that - and it looks to me the OP might be more of a sprinter than a middle distance guy.

Allen Stark
April 23rd, 2009, 08:59 PM
I personally think you could've taken that first 50 out in a 33 mid, and still have enough in you to split 37, 38, 38...2:27, 2:28.

That third 50 is where you just rely on your technique and the 4th 50 you just go at it with whatever you have left.

I am not clear what your rational is.If he couldn't hold splits out in 34 how could he out in 33.

Knightswimmer2
April 24th, 2009, 10:40 AM
I am not clear what your rational is.If he couldn't hold splits out in 34 how could he out in 33.


I think he can..not trying to start a fight or anything here, but maybe you guys put this notion in his head that he couldn't go out faster. Ideally in your first 50 splits in the 100 and 200 shouldn't be that far off. Ideally you wanna be within a second, but you want to swim it smarter. ie longer, using your legs more. If you guys sit here and tell him that he should take it out in a high 34, your just telling him to hold back even more.

That first 50 should really just be there to set the tempo, so if you start off at a slower pace then you can really go, then your just telling yourself to go slow. Just what I've been taught. Im not saying any which way is right, but I was always taught to take that first out with a strong tempo...doesnt mean sprint it all out, but you have to set yourself up for a good race.

Allen Stark
April 24th, 2009, 01:38 PM
I think he can..not trying to start a fight or anything here, but maybe you guys put this notion in his head that he couldn't go out faster. Ideally in your first 50 splits in the 100 and 200 shouldn't be that far off. Ideally you wanna be within a second, but you want to swim it smarter. ie longer, using your legs more. If you guys sit here and tell him that he should take it out in a high 34, your just telling him to hold back even more.

That first 50 should really just be there to set the tempo, so if you start off at a slower pace then you can really go, then your just telling yourself to go slow. Just what I've been taught. Im not saying any which way is right, but I was always taught to take that first out with a strong tempo...doesnt mean sprint it all out, but you have to set yourself up for a good race.

Believe me,I am not trying to argue.I am trying to learn/impart knowledge.Last year i had a 200 time I was very proud of-my fastest in several years-of 2:28.59 split at 33.72,37.97,38.38,38.52.My 50s have been about 31.0 and 100s about 1:07.8(out in about 31.8)(swum in jammers).It seems by your logic I should have been out in about 32.8.When I have tried that before my time was 2:32 and I REALLY died.I consider myself best in the 100 BR flexing down to the 50 and up to the 200.200 specialists can split closer to their 100 first 50.

Knightswimmer2
April 24th, 2009, 02:07 PM
I mean it really depends on how you train...I no longer consider myself a 200 swimmer basically cuz its wayyy to long of a race for me. Im not motivated anymore in practice to really work for a 200. Ive always been partial to the 100, but if you train for it, it can be done!

I guess I should have put a disclaimer out there saying you have to train for the 200 in order to split it like that. :blush:

jim clemmons
April 24th, 2009, 02:10 PM
I'm pretty much more the distance type. When I try and sprint, I lose some of the finer attributes needed to swim the stroke properly.

Yds:
50 31.71
100 31.75 34.9 1:06.64
200 32.8 36.4 37.2 38.1 2:24.5

On the 200, I was trying to get out under a 10 (9.22) and see what would happen on the back half (15.31). We'll leave it as "I found out alright".

Glider
April 24th, 2009, 02:25 PM
Jim, I'd wager very good money that last 50 was pure torture. Been there done that. It ain't purty:D


I'm pretty much more the distance type. When I try and sprint, I lose some of the finer attributes needed to swim the stroke properly.

Yds:
50 31.71
100 31.75 34.9 1:06.64
200 32.8 36.4 37.2 38.1 2:24.5

On the 200, I was trying to get out under a 10 (9.22) and see what would happen on the back half (15.31). We'll leave it as "I found out alright".

SwimStud
April 28th, 2009, 11:41 PM
OK to keep the thread going. I did my 200 at Zones thusly:
37.90
1:19.05 (41.15)
2:02.92 (43.87)
2:45.47 (42.55)

My 50 was :34.2

I didn't feel dead enough after the 200. Breathing was normal very shortly after climbing out. I think climbing out should be a bit tough.
Happy to PB but felt I left some in the pool and want some input on the splitting. Something odd happens in the 3rd leg with me, and then I roar back. Look at the below from January...same thing.

Leg Cumulative Subtractive
1 39.32 39.32
2 1:24.17 44.85
3 2:10.18 46.01
4 2:54.49 44.31

tjrpatt
April 29th, 2009, 08:56 AM
Here is my 200 Breast time from Zones. I might have went out too fast in the first 100.

34.52
1:12.35 (37.83)
1:51.64 (39.29)
2:31.99 (40.35)

SwimStud
April 29th, 2009, 09:02 AM
Here is my 200 Breast time from Zones. I might have went out too fast in the first 100.

34.52
1:12.35 (37.83)
1:51.64 (39.29)
2:31.99 (40.35)

From my eye Tom I don't think it's too bad...a fast start may be due to the dive and momentum....you didn't drop off by 2 or 3 seconds each 50. If I could get my swim to go down by 1 sec per 50 I'd be happy...

jim clemmons
April 29th, 2009, 10:56 AM
OK to keep the thread going. I did my 200 at Zones thusly:
37.90
1:19.05 (41.15)
2:02.92 (43.87)
2:45.47 (42.55)

My 50 was :34.2

I didn't feel dead enough after the 200. Breathing was normal very shortly after climbing out. I think climbing out should be a bit tough.
Happy to PB but felt I left some in the pool and want some input on the splitting. Something odd happens in the 3rd leg with me, and then I roar back. Look at the below from January...same thing.

Leg Cumulative Subtractive
1 39.32 39.32
2 1:24.17 44.85
3 2:10.18 46.01
4 2:54.49 44.31

You're relaxing too much on the third 50. Gotta keep the pressure on and try to descend from the 2nd 50 to the last 50.

SwimStud
April 29th, 2009, 11:11 AM
You're relaxing too much on the third 50. Gotta keep the pressure on and try to descend from the 2nd 50 to the last 50.

Thanks Jim

Think maybe I'm subconsciously gearing up for the big push? Should I take first 50 out a bit harder?

Knightswimmer2
April 29th, 2009, 11:18 AM
Thanks Jim

Think maybe I'm subconsciously gearing up for the big push? Should I take first 50 out a bit harder?


well....depends, how are you feeling at the 100, 150 mark? Do you still feel like you have a lot left, or are you pretty worn out? What are your hundred times like?

SwimStud
April 29th, 2009, 11:21 AM
well....depends, how are you feeling at the 100, 150 mark? Do you still feel like you have a lot left, or are you pretty worn out? What are your hundred times like?

Well I haven't done a good 100 yeat this year. My best is 1:18...which is roughly I nearly took out the first 100 of the 200. Here are the 100 Splits:

1 37.69 (37.69)
2 1:18.82 (41.13)
Swimming 100 on Sunday and I am planning to go hard from the start and see what I can do!

Knightswimmer2
April 29th, 2009, 11:37 AM
Well I haven't done a good 100 yeat this year. My best is 1:18...which is roughly I nearly took out the first 100 of the 200. Here are the 100 Splits:

1 37.69 (37.69)
2 1:18.82 (41.13)
Swimming 100 on Sunday and I am planning to go hard from the start and see what I can do!


That is right on with your 100 splits, which really means you should be going faster in that 100, or your meant to be a 200 swimmer.

Your biggest area of improvement is that 3rd 50..you let off way too much I think. your 3rd and 4th 50 should be split evenly. I think you just relaxed too much instead of really going after it on the back half of your race.

But I never throw out the idea of going out fast either, but def try to get that thrid 50 split closer to a 42 high.

jim clemmons
April 29th, 2009, 11:42 AM
Thanks Jim

Think maybe I'm subconsciously gearing up for the big push? Should I take first 50 out a bit harder?

Yeah, you might be. If the first 50's comfortable, I'd leave it alone until you can achieve what you need to do on the last three 50's (descending them).

Sometimes you gotta learn how the race the race correctly before you can race it fast. Get my drift?

You have to consciously swim the race and not let the subconscious take over. It can be hard to concentrate for 2-3 minutes but you'll get there by practicing "focus".

pwolf66
April 29th, 2009, 11:45 AM
Stud,

as someone who has similar issues on the 3rd 50 for the 200, I would recommend that you really focus on keeping your stroke strong on the 3rd 50. If you do that, you will carry more speed thru that 50. Easy speed is the goal.

SwimStud
April 29th, 2009, 11:48 AM
Thanks to both.
Sunday's 100 will be interesting.
I didn't swim any 200 BR in practice at all, up to the meet, times have been falling due to fitness/efficiency.

I think I'm nearing the point where I have to practice making those "race" decisions to optimize everything, which is what Fort said when we discussed it.

SwimStud
April 29th, 2009, 11:50 AM
Stud,

as someone who has similar issues on the 3rd 50 for the 200, I would recommend that you really focus on keeping your stroke strong on the 3rd 50. If you do that, you will carry more speed thru that 50. Easy speed is the goal.

Yeah, when I looked at the old splits it seems pretty obvious that I have a 200 Pattern that I need to fix. I'm doing the 200 FR this weekend too. I'll see how that splits out. I'll try to adopt the 200 BR model I want on that race.

Knightswimmer2
April 29th, 2009, 11:50 AM
Or just drop the 200 altogether...Thats my goal! :bump:

SwimStud
April 29th, 2009, 11:52 AM
Or just drop the 200 altogether...Thats my goal! :bump:
haha
I used to semi-dread the event but it hasn't hurt enough... so I know I'm not getting it right!

jim clemmons
April 29th, 2009, 12:04 PM
I'll try to adopt the 200 BR model I want on that race.

"Do or do not; there is no "try".

Attitude, dude. Speak what you want.

Say it: I WILL ADOPT THE 200 BREASTSTROKE RACE MODEL I WANT! Repeat...

Knightswimmer2
April 29th, 2009, 12:14 PM
"Do or do not; there is no "try".

Attitude, dude. Speak what you want.

Say it: I WILL ADOPT THE 200 BREASTSTROKE RACE MODEL I WANT! Repeat...


Almost sounds like my previous college coach...and my mom...weird how these things aren't just made up by some crazy people, maybe there is some truth to the positive mental attitude.

DanSad
April 29th, 2009, 02:51 PM
original poster here - Just wondering what you guys have done in practice. SwimStud said he didn't swim the 200 BR in practice. I didn't do any 200's BR in practice either, I rarely did 100's. I did mostly 50's BR. Although I did do a lot of 100 IMs and 200 IMs. I'm thinking I should start swimming 200s BR in practice. Any set ideas? I doubt I can manage 5 x 200 BR.

Knightswimmer2
April 29th, 2009, 03:48 PM
original poster here - Just wondering what you guys have done in practice. SwimStud said he didn't swim the 200 BR in practice. I didn't do any 200's BR in practice either, I rarely did 100's. I did mostly 50's BR. Although I did do a lot of 100 IMs and 200 IMs. I'm thinking I should start swimming 200s BR in practice. Any set ideas? I doubt I can manage 5 x 200 BR.


When I trained for the 200, we did a lot of straight 200's, and a lot of pace work for the 200.

Maybe try 4x200.....1) 100 fr/100br
2) 75fr/125br
3) 50fr/150br
4) 200br
you can also do it opposite with more fr then br...set it up as a ladder set. Broken 200 hundreds are always good, you can learn how to swim the event that way

Justin Ritter
April 29th, 2009, 04:26 PM
I find it very helpful to swim the occasional 200 breast in practice, if for no other reason than to get more comfortable with the pain and oxygen-debt that it causes. Mostly I do 50s and 100s breast, personally I think repeat 100s are the best thing for my 200. 50s are good to practice going faster and doing full 200 race pace. But that said I try to do at least a couple full 200s a week, never more than one in a row and very rarely more than one in a workout.

Like Ande has said often, I think you really need to practice the actual event to get fast at it. There's no other way to simulate those last few turns and pullouts on the 200 which are so painful.

If you really want to get hardcore and work on oxygen-debt comfort then you can start doing flipturns and/or double pullouts when you do 50s and 100s breast. Also what I try really hard to do is follow Brendan Hansen's advice to really concentrate on technique when you're at your most exhausted. It's so easy to let your stroke fall apart at the end of a 200, in practice try to make the last 50 or 100 of your 200 be the best, long pullouts and perfect stroke. If you can't hold it together in practice you probably won't be able to in a race.

hofffam
April 29th, 2009, 06:22 PM
I swim some free/breast 200s sometimes in addition to the occasional 200 breast.

If 4 x 200 breast is a bit much (yes it is for me) - swim 4 x 200 - where each 100 is 100 free/100 breast. That puts the breaststroke at the end - where you are at least somewhat tired cardio wise but your breaststroke muscles are more fresh. You still have to work for oxygen on the breaststroke pullouts.

For variation reverse the order - or swim 50 free 100 breast 50 free.

I also find the breast/free sequence is useful practice for the last half of IMs.

Allen Stark
April 30th, 2009, 10:20 PM
Rich,plan on something to focus on in that 3rd 50.I like to focus on my pull the 3rd 50 and my kick the 4th.If I don't have a focus I tend to slow the 3rd 50 also.
I almost never do regular 200 BRs in practice as I can't swim them race pace and I don't want to teach my body to swim slowly.I do mostly 100s at 200 pace.I do swim 200s dolphin kick/BR pull for endurance.I like to swim them either go out at 200 pace and try to hold it as long as possible or negative split.When I was younger and dumber I'd occasionally swim 200 BR in practice where I sprint the 1st 50 all out and then just try to hold the stroke together.The idea was to know that if I went out too hard I could still do OK.

Breastrokemania
April 30th, 2009, 10:37 PM
depends on many things
how well conditioned you are
if you are a sprinter or a middle distance swimmer
how close the 100 time is to your true potential
how your 200 race goes, turns splitting ...

the bench mark how many seconds you have to add when you
double you 100 time

double 100 time & add _____ seconds

06 - 10 : Distance swimmers
10 - 14 : Typical 100 swimmers
14 - 20 : sprinters, bad splitters, & poorly conditioned swimmers

1:05 + 1:05 + 19 = 2:29.6
now find out.

Wow. I'm very close to creating a new category. "Lazy, poorly conditioned drop dead sprinter."

SwimStud
May 1st, 2009, 12:05 AM
Thanks Allen.

I'm the same on 200's I can't swim them at race pace but I do sometimes do a set of 6 x 200 where I work the turns and go long off the wall and very ez between (one of Wayne's sets).

The other one is swimming 50 builds starting say at 12 x 50 on 1:00 3 mod, 1 fast working down to 9 x 50 1:05 2 mod , 1 fast, then 6 then 4 all fast.

I also sometimes do 200 FR but do BR turns and pullouts.

pwolf66
May 1st, 2009, 08:40 AM
Wow. I'm very close to creating a new category. "Lazy, poorly conditioned drop dead sprinter."

Sorry, already created

100 Free - 51.44
200 Free - 2:03.56

:angel:

Knightswimmer2
May 1st, 2009, 12:55 PM
Wow. I'm very close to creating a new category. "Lazy, poorly conditioned drop dead sprinter."


You say poorly conditioned, I say selectively able...And I don't appreciate the lazy part, I just choose not to train for anything over 100...Not lazy again just selective in my training.

SwimStud
May 3rd, 2009, 04:06 PM
OK to keep the thread going. I did my 200 at Zones thusly:
37.90
1:19.05 (41.15)
2:02.92 (43.87)
2:45.47 (42.55)


[quote=Knightswimmer2;178423]That is right on with your 100 splits, which really means you should be going faster in that 100, or your meant to be a 200 swimmer.


OK did the 100 today... :36.x and :41.x for a 1:17.71--started too slow you think?

You can see some of the 200 BR on Jim Thornton's log
http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?b=3011#comments
it's in the comments!

Allen Stark
May 3rd, 2009, 06:24 PM
[quote=SwimStud;178371]OK to keep the thread going. I did my 200 at Zones thusly:
37.90
1:19.05 (41.15)
2:02.92 (43.87)
2:45.47 (42.55)




OK did the 100 today... :36.x and :41.x for a 1:17.71--started too slow you think?

No!!You had a 5 sec difference,I think you should shoot for a 4 sec difference.

tjrpatt
May 3rd, 2009, 07:33 PM
Since this is the 200 breast thread. Here are my splits from my LCM 200 breast this weekend:

40.32
45.72(1:26.04)
45.61
47.33(1:32.94)
Total time-2:58.98

SwimStud
May 3rd, 2009, 07:36 PM
Since this is the 200 breast thread. Here are my splits from my LCM 200 breast this weekend:

40.32
45.72(1:26.04)
45.61
47.33(1:32.94)
Total time-2:58.98

Good going Tom!

Allen Stark
May 3rd, 2009, 07:54 PM
Since this is the 200 breast thread. Here are my splits from my LCM 200 breast this weekend:

40.32
45.72(1:26.04)
45.61
47.33(1:32.94)
Total time-2:58.98

How did it feel?Out in a 40 may have been too fast given the finish,especially the last 50.How is that time for you?I think you could have gone faster if you were out a little slower,maybe
41.3,45.3,45.3,45.3 for a 2:57.2.
But you broke 3 min and that seems great,good swim.

tjrpatt
May 3rd, 2009, 08:03 PM
How did it feel?Out in a 40 may have been too fast given the finish,especially the last 50.How is that time for you?I think you could have gone faster if you were out a little slower,maybe
41.3,45.3,45.3,45.3 for a 2:57.2.
But you broke 3 min and that seems great,good swim.

I think that I might have dropped off on the last 50 because the two other guys in my heat were 25 meters behind me. But, I have to work on keeping the last 50 even with the middle two. I can't complain about breaking 3:00 since I am not a breaststroker. I just swim the breaststroke to help out my 400IM.

Knightswimmer2
May 4th, 2009, 09:45 AM
[quote=SwimStud;178371]OK to keep the thread going. I did my 200 at Zones thusly:
37.90
1:19.05 (41.15)
2:02.92 (43.87)
2:45.47 (42.55)




OK did the 100 today... :36.x and :41.x for a 1:17.71--started too slow you think?

You can see some of the 200 BR on Jim Thornton's log
http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?b=3011#comments
it's in the comments!


If i recall correctly, your 50 is a 34.x. I almost think that first 50 can be a 35, but you split it correctly.

I did the 100 2 weeks ago and I split 30.x and a 33.x, but im a much better back end swimmer. I usually dont get my top speed till im 35 or 40 yards into a race.