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Ahelee Sue Osborn
April 11th, 2009, 04:25 PM
Not to sound impatient here...
Just wondering how long it generally takes for psyche sheets be posted after the entry deadline?

matysekj
April 11th, 2009, 04:48 PM
We have a winner! Congratulations, Ahelee for being the first to ask this year. Usually someone asks the morning after the entries close, so I was starting to wonder what was taking so long.

For one of last year's meets we posted them the day after entries closed. That won't happen this year. The committed date from the meet information is April 23, but it will likely be some time this coming week. I just finished processing the withdrawals from the meet and we've still got a number of people with conflicts in their entries to clean up, as well as some confusion with some foreign entries. The sixth event decision and seeding decisions will likely also come this week.

The total number of entries looks to be somewhere between 1580 and 1590. The actual number will come once we clean up some of the problem entries.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
April 11th, 2009, 06:37 PM
NO ONE has to know that I was the only one entered...

A WIN IS A WIN - AND I'LL TAKE IT!

Take your time... like I said, I was just curious with no one else to ask but the forum.

Now, I have a chocolate bunny that needs some attention. The last before I try on my new race suit!

jim clemmons
April 11th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Now, I have a chocolate bunny that needs some attention. The last before I try on my new race suit!

Must be one of the newer types? Kind with the zipper that allows expansion like the smaller suitcases do these days? :bighug:

matysekj
April 11th, 2009, 11:00 PM
Now, I have a chocolate bunny that needs some attention.

Now if a giant chocolate bunny were to show up on my doorstep in the morning, I may be able to move the schedule up a little...

GordonD
April 12th, 2009, 12:32 PM
Jim: When the psych sheet is made available, by chance will it be accompanied by an estimated timeline? If not, when do you think that would be available? I'm doing some research on flight reservations and am not sure how late the meet is expected to go on Sunday.

matysekj
April 12th, 2009, 10:49 PM
We always post an estimated time line for the meet. It usually comes out with the heat sheets, which are little later than the psych sheets and roster. Those are committed by April 27 this year, but again may be available before then.

skihwy
April 13th, 2009, 08:56 AM
Wouldn't it have made sense to charge my credit card AFTER the decision on the sixth event?

What's the real cost of making a bunch of $4.00 refunds?

knelson
April 13th, 2009, 10:18 AM
Dropping the sixth event seems pretty rare for the short course meet. I've swum every short course Nationals but one since 2003 and the sixth event has never been dropped (I think).

jim clemmons
April 13th, 2009, 11:24 AM
Wouldn't it have made sense to charge my credit card AFTER the decision on the sixth event?

What's the real cost of making a bunch of $4.00 refunds?

The decision regarding the 6th event has no impact. There are no refunds if the 6th event is dropped. Check out the "fine" print. :cool:

skihwy
April 13th, 2009, 12:49 PM
Can you direct me to the "fine print" related to canceling the sixth event?

This reminds me of when I had four front row tickets to see David Bowie and when he canceled, they refunded everything but the $45 per ticket handling charge.

jim clemmons
April 13th, 2009, 12:59 PM
Can you direct me to the "fine print" related to canceling the sixth event?

This reminds me of when I had four front row tickets to see David Bowie and when he canceled, they refunded everything but the $45 per ticket handling charge.

Doesn't really matter. I'm with Kirk - we'll be swimming all six for this one.

"NATIONAL QUALIFYING TIMES / NUMBER OF EVENTS / SIXTH EVENT
Competitors may enter up to three events without meeting the national qualifying time (NQT), or a maximum of six events if they meet the NQTs, i.e. have swum a time equal to or better than the NQTs in the past two years. All swimmers are limited to three individual events per day. All events must include an entry time. If the meet is deemed too large, an athlete's sixth event will be dropped. On the entry form, indicate this event with a '6' in the designated column."

"FEES
Fees are $4 per individual event plus a $40 surcharge per swimmer. Fees must accompany the entry form and must be paid in U.S dollars by check or money order. Do not send cash. The entry form is not complete until the check has cleared the bank. If there are questions about an entrant's check, full cash payment in U.S. dollars will be required before the entrant is allowed to swim. Refund requests must be received in writing by April 9, 2009. No refunds will be given for events not swum."

jroddin
April 15th, 2009, 03:29 PM
Jim,

Just curious, when will results be posted? I mean, if you can get your act together and post the results sooner rather than later instead of wasting your time with the darn psych sheets, you can save a whole lot of travel expenses for some folks...:joker:

PS. What a shame about that false start in the Men's 50 free final!

knelson
April 15th, 2009, 04:00 PM
they refunded everything but the $45 per ticket handling charge.

$45 per ticket? Wow, I wouldn't want anyone handling my tickets quite that much.

GordonD
April 17th, 2009, 10:58 AM
Jim M: Sorry to bother again about the psych sheet, but are you still thinking it might be posted this week? I'm assuming it would be added to the menu on the left side of the main event page of the USMS website.

Chris Stevenson
April 17th, 2009, 12:02 PM
Jim M: Sorry to bother again about the psych sheet, but are you still thinking it might be posted this week? I'm assuming it would be added to the menu on the left side of the main event page of the USMS website.

Gordon, I'm sure it will be on the "nationals" page at

http://www.usms.org/comp/nationals.php

You can see how it was listed for previous nationals. If past years are any indication, the link will be

http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats09/heats/

pwolf66
April 17th, 2009, 12:17 PM
You can see how it was listed for previous nationals. If past years are any indication, the link will be

http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats09/heats/


I think you're pretty much spot on with that url as it prompts for a championship committee login :applaud:

matysekj
April 17th, 2009, 02:02 PM
Psych sheets and meet roster are now available - see http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats09/.

Statistics/decisions on this meet:



There are 1,582 swimmers in the meet.
The sixth event will NOT be dropped.
We'll only use 2 courses for all competition events (no need to use the 3rd course for distance events).
Men and women will be seeded together by time for the 1000 and 1650.
Events 200 yards and shorter will be pre-seeded with heat sheets available by April 23.
Events 400 yards and longer will require positive check-in.
Any changes to the entry data as a result of our processing errors should be submitted to me by end of day Sunday, April 19. We do not accept changes to events or seed times that you had on your entry form.

pwolf66
April 17th, 2009, 02:17 PM
M 50-54 100 Free
4 Gaines, Ambrose 50 UNAT 49.50


Um, excuse me Mr. Gaines? 49.50 when you just SMASHED the National mark by over a second? Sandbagger, get thee behind me :afraid:. Tho there's ZERO chance of that. :applaud:

knelson
April 17th, 2009, 02:24 PM
Not a huge meet in terms of total numbers, but it looks like it will be fast--at least in my age group. I see Josh Davis is entered again.

Once again I'm seeded ninth overall in the 1650 so will be relegated to the penultimate heat unless someone scratches. I tend to swim my own race, so no biggie. In any event I see lots of familiar names in my heat who will be fast including Kurt Dickson.

I also just noticed neither John nor Paul Smith are entered.

pwolf66
April 17th, 2009, 02:29 PM
I guess it helps to enter the last event of the day on the last day of the meet.
M 40-44 50 back
6 Wolf, Paul R 42 GERM 28.06

:violin:

Speedo
April 17th, 2009, 04:43 PM
The sprint freestylers certainly showed up :banana:

The Fortress
April 17th, 2009, 06:38 PM
Not a huge meet in terms of total numbers, but it looks like it will be fast--at least in my age group. I see Josh Davis is entered again.

Once again I'm seeded ninth overall in the 1650 so will be relegated to the penultimate heat unless someone scratches. I tend to swim my own race, so no biggie. In any event I see lots of familiar names in my heat who will be fast including Kurt Dickson.

I also just noticed neither John nor Paul Smith are entered.

I thought Paul said he was going ...

In my age group, it can't even compare to last year at Austin. Last year was much faster and more competitive.

Crazyman
April 17th, 2009, 06:49 PM
yeah...i'm in there :)

100 free 40-44
32 Schmidt, Vladimir 41 PNA 56.16

50 free 40-44
44 Schmidt, Vladimir 41 PNA 25.83

50 fly 40-44
32 Schmidt, Vladimir 41 PNA 28.36

100 fly 40-44
37 Schmidt, Vladimir 41 PNA 1:03.52

Ahelee Sue Osborn
April 17th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Psych sheets and meet roster are now available - see http://www.usms.org/comp/scnats09/.



Thank you VERY MUCH Jim and USMS!!

See y'all in Clovis!

pwb
April 17th, 2009, 07:57 PM
... In any event I see lots of familiar names in my heat who will be fast including Kurt Dickson.
...

Kurt's in shape and was 4:49 and 10:04 in the 500 / 1000 at the Arizona State meet a few weeks again. I suspect he'll have a very nice mile. Hope you're swimming next to him.

I've also got a 9th seed in the 400 IM and trying to decide if I'd rather have some scratch or not. On the one hand, I tend not to pay much attention to people until the freestyle so lane 4 in the next to fastest heat is not bad; on the other hand, my goal time has me racing with the top seeds. Interestingly, last year in Austin, I was seeded 7th with a slower time; so, at least this event is faster / deeper than last.

Jazz Hands
April 17th, 2009, 08:13 PM
Dave Rollins is in my age group, and he's massively sandbagging everything. Not even in the top heat of the 50 free.

some_girl
April 17th, 2009, 10:40 PM
I thought Paul said he was going ...

In my age group, it can't even compare to last year at Austin. Last year was much faster and more competitive.

Yeah, my age group is also pretty soft compared to the last two years.

knelson
April 18th, 2009, 12:37 AM
Dave Rollins is in my age group, and he's massively sandbagging everything. Not even in the top heat of the 50 free.

Oh yeah, I saw Rollins mention on collegeswimming.com that he was training. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't go a 24 in the 50 breast.

Seems like from Fortress and some girl's posts that the meet might be weaker on the women's side this year. Question for Jim Matysek: what's the total number of men registered for the meet versus women? Are there typically more men?

bkbain
April 18th, 2009, 07:03 PM
Dave Rollins is in my age group, and he's massively sandbagging everything. Not even in the top heat of the 50 free.


Well that sucks!!!

The Fortress
April 18th, 2009, 08:03 PM
Oh yeah, I saw Rollins mention on collegeswimming.com that he was training. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't go a 24 in the 50 breast.

Seems like from Fortress and some girl's posts that the meet might be weaker on the women's side this year. Question for Jim Matysek: what's the total number of men registered for the meet versus women? Are there typically more men?

Seems like many of the faster women (east coast, midwest), including speedsters from some girl's team, are at Y Nats or CZ. It looks pretty west coast on the women's side at Clovis. They're fast, don't get me wrong, the field is just not as deep or fast as Austin.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
April 18th, 2009, 09:45 PM
It looks pretty west coast on the women's side at Clovis. They're fast, don't get me wrong, the field is just not as deep or fast as Austin.

Definitely not as deep -but many of the faster west coast women are missing as well.
So, the Top Ten rankings will have to finally tell the US Masters Swimming story... guess its ok since the we're the only ones watching short course yards anyway!

I've heard mainly these reasons for passing on USMS Nationals:
#1 - $$ for travel
#2 - Outdoor pool for championships is undesireable
#3 - Location - chose Y Nats over Clovis


Frankly, I'm surprised. I've only heard great things about Clovis hosting championship swim events.
Perhaps it is the economy more than anything.
It does seem that masters are looking for more than a great event host.

Aren't we fortunate to have so many different regional championship meets? Lots of options to finally taper and race at the end of the season.

Allen Stark
April 18th, 2009, 09:51 PM
Bob Strand told me in Dec. he thought he'd miss Nats this year,but curses:censor::censor:,he's entered.At least I know I'll have someone to pull me along.Seriously it is fun to swim against the best.:banana:

The Fortress
April 18th, 2009, 09:58 PM
Definitely not as deep -but many of the faster west coast women are missing as well.
So, the Top Ten rankings will have to finally tell the US Masters Swimming story... guess its ok since the we're the only ones watching short course yards anyway!

I've heard mainly these reasons for passing on USMS Nationals:
#1 - $$ for travel
#2 - Outdoor pool for championships is undesireable
#3 - Location - chose Y Nats over Clovis


Frankly, I'm surprised. I've only heard great things about Clovis hosting championship swim events.
Perhaps it is the economy more than anything.
It does seem that masters are looking for more than a great event host.

Aren't we fortunate to have so many different regional championship meets? Lots of options to finally taper and race at the end of the season.

We are very fortunate to have many well run regional meets in good facilities! :)

I also think some people (like me) just don't go to Nats every year because of scheduling/kids conflicts or because they only attend one Nats (SCY or LC). Frankly, SCY Nats is less of a draw for me in general because there are so many SCY meets. Not so many, in fact very few, SCM and LCM meets, at least in my region.

Allen, go get him and enjoy your new age group!

some_girl
April 19th, 2009, 12:04 AM
Frankly, I'm surprised. I've only heard great things about Clovis hosting championship swim events.
Perhaps it is the economy more than anything.
It does seem that masters are looking for more than a great event host.


Honestly, I think location is a lot of it. Imagine if Nationals were in Providence (which is actually a much more pleasant city than Fresno--and easier to drive to from major airports). For East Coasters it is a little out of the way, but not so hard to get to. From Oregon or Arizona? It would be a total b*tch. And so almost no East Coasters want to go -- the only person from my team going is from out there and has a wedding the same weekend.

Fresnoid
April 19th, 2009, 01:37 AM
Honestly, I think location is a lot of it. Imagine if Nationals were in Providence (which is actually a much more pleasant city than Fresno--and easier to drive to from major airports). For East Coasters it is a little out of the way, but not so hard to get to. From Oregon or Arizona? It would be a total b*tch. And so almost no East Coasters want to go -- the only person from my team going is from out there and has a wedding the same weekend.

Excuse me?? Have you ever been here?

jim clemmons
April 19th, 2009, 09:46 AM
Honestly, I think location is a lot of it. Imagine if Nationals were in Providence (which is actually a much more pleasant city than Fresno--and easier to drive to from major airports). For East Coasters it is a little out of the way, but not so hard to get to. From Oregon or Arizona? It would be a total b*tch. And so almost no East Coasters want to go -- the only person from my team going is from out there and has a wedding the same weekend.

So, get your Providence sh*t together and place a bid to host the event. It takes that and some work to put the entire package together.

At least the Fresno folks are willing to put out the real effort and host.

Maybe just some (not all) of the east coasters are a little lazy and would rather sit at their computer and dis far off lands?

Ahelee Sue Osborn
April 19th, 2009, 10:35 AM
I'll let you know when I get back for sure, but I've heard that the area is really quite nice. Near the giant redwoods and Yosemite as well. How could it be ugly?

A very swimming friendly community too.

I agree with Jim in the sense that we have to be so grateful for these organizations who step up and host the masters meets - large and small.
It is a lot of work.
You might say that its all about the money for them, but it isn't. While its true the very large championship meets can be profitable, it takes a team of folks who love and are willing to serve the sport and its athletes to pull off these events.

I just crack up every time I read Kevin's "FRESNOID" name here :)
Central California is kinda like the mid-west... the people are all so nice!

So what? There are going to be nearly 1600 master swimmers swimming fast and having a great time in Clovis.
Wish you were all going to be there!

some_girl
April 19th, 2009, 01:22 PM
I'll let you know when I get back for sure, but I've heard that the area is really quite nice. Near the giant redwoods and Yosemite as well. How could it be ugly?

A very swimming friendly community too.

I agree with Jim in the sense that we have to be so grateful for these organizations who step up and host the masters meets - large and small.
It is a lot of work.
You might say that its all about the money for them, but it isn't. While its true the very large championship meets can be profitable, it takes a team of folks who love and are willing to serve the sport and its athletes to pull off these events.

I just crack up every time I read Kevin's "FRESNOID" name here :)
Central California is kinda like the mid-west... the people are all so nice!

So what? There are going to be nearly 1600 master swimmers swimming fast and having a great time in Clovis.
Wish you were all going to be there!

Woah, woah. I grew up in California -- I have been to Fresno. (And I only lived in Providence for college.) The point is I think a lot of people from the East Coast found the effort to get there not worth the return. It isn't a judgment on anything but that. Though I suppose if you have to be so defensive, maybe you are afraid there is a kernel of truth in the perceptions?

pwolf66
April 19th, 2009, 01:35 PM
The point is I think a lot of people from the East Coast found the effort to get there not worth the return.

Isn't that a decision that every swimmer needs to make for themselves regardless of the location?


There has been a lot of discussion about Nationals being held in less than desirable locations. I've made a couple of comments along that line in jest myself. But the fact is that when only ONE group submits a bid, then what are the options? Case in point is 2010 LCM Nats. Some folks have already express attitudes of 'you couldn't pay me to go to PR and swim', hey it's a personal choice. But if folks are unhappy about the locations of Nationals, then step the heck up and help to put together a bid at a location that you do consider desirable.

some_girl
April 19th, 2009, 01:38 PM
So, get your Providence sh*t together and place a bid to host the event. It takes that and some work to put the entire package together.

At least the Fresno folks are willing to put out the real effort and host.

Maybe just some (not all) of the east coasters are a little lazy and would rather sit at their computer and dis far off lands?

Also, I think we discussed this before, but my impression is that the lack of Northeast nationals has a lot more to do with location requirements than people's unwillingness to put forth effort. I don't think we were able to come up with a pool that had room for two courses and ample warmdown.

some_girl
April 19th, 2009, 01:45 PM
Isn't that a decision that every swimmer needs to make for themselves regardless of the location?


There has been a lot of discussion about Nationals being held in less than desirable locations. I've made a couple of comments along that line in jest myself. But the fact is that when only ONE group submits a bid, then what are the options? Case in point is 2010 LCM Nats. Some folks have already express attitudes of 'you couldn't pay me to go to PR and swim', hey it's a personal choice. But if folks are unhappy about the locations of Nationals, then step the heck up and help to put together a bid at a location that you do consider desirable.

Yeah, and that was my point. If you look back, I was saying why I think a lot of fast people (a group in which I don't include myself but does comprise a number of my teammates) decided not to go, you know, personally, individually. And I think, honestly, being far from major airports (and thus requiring a transfer or a long drive) was an even bigger deciding factor. I don't love Seattle either, but we went cause it was easy enough to fly into.

And Puerto Rico is a good comparison, as well. What do you think the East/West split on that will be? Does that make the West Coasters who stay home jerks who should put on their very own show? Or only the ones who say out loud they don't want to go because the location is incovenient?

Ahelee Sue Osborn
April 19th, 2009, 02:52 PM
"Wish you were all going to be there!"

I know for myself, on a coaches salary, I can't go to every nationals.
But I am a bit of a swim meet geek...
And I would always go if possible, just because its' our USMS National Championships.

You know... in support of my sport.

pwb
April 19th, 2009, 03:46 PM
...
I also think some people (like me) just don't go to Nats every year because of scheduling/kids conflicts or because they only attend one Nats (SCY or LC). ...

Right on. My absolute favorite pool in the world is Indianapolis, but I just can't swing the schedule to make it there this summer.


Honestly, I think location is a lot of it. Imagine if Nationals were in Providence (which is actually a much more pleasant city than Fresno--and easier to drive to from major airports). ...

Very true, but the host of reasons are so numerous that you're never going to get consensus. For some, it's travel distance/cost; for others, it's the city itself; for others, the pool. And on and on.

As an example, Atlanta should be packed because it's easy to get to from most places with a direct flight and has a great pool. That might be enough for me to overcome my dislike of the city. :)


...And Puerto Rico is a good comparison, as well. ...

I don't think this will be a fair comparison because of Worlds in Sweden right beforehand. I doubt many people can/will do both, but I would imagine Sweden would be more attractive (not more affordable, for sure). I'm a travel junky and really want to go to Sweden, but, again, that conflicts with my daughters' big summer meets. So, unless our kids' school starts before Puerto Rico nationals are over, I'll be there. Otherwise, I'll go another summer swimming few if any LCM meets.

Peter Cruise
April 19th, 2009, 04:37 PM
I suppose the fact that I've attended USMasters Nats in Grand Forks, North Dakota and Canadian Nats in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan (a good while ago) speaks to my willingness to venture on the swimming path less travelled on occasion.
I think the casual slanging of some host cities who are prepared to put out the very large effort to host a Nats is a result of today's consumerist attitude in reacting strongly against the inconvenient rather than acknowledging membership in a community of swimmers and clubs that spans a very large geographic area and cannot always (especially in one-bid situations) please all of the people all of the time.

The Fortress
April 19th, 2009, 06:31 PM
"Wish you were all going to be there!"

I know for myself, on a coaches salary, I can't go to every nationals.
But I am a bit of a swim meet geek...
And I would always go if possible, just because its' our USMS National Championships.

You know... in support of my sport.

In theory, I'd like to go to every nationals to compete and support my sport too!! In reality, like Patrick, it is difficult for me to get away for 4-5 days. Once a year or every other year is about it for me for awhile. So I attend mostly local meets or do quickie getaways. I'm sure Clovis will host a fabulous meet with loads of fast swimming.

Does anyone really expect to be pleased about meet locations all the time? I wouldn't think so ... And deciding which meet(s) to attend is just dependent on so many individual factors. (Like my own inability to tolerate the pollen and strange vegetation on the west coast ... :D)

Peter Cruise
April 19th, 2009, 08:10 PM
"strange vegetation", Leslie? I suppose you're referring to Clemmon's moustache...

jim clemmons
April 19th, 2009, 10:42 PM
Yeah, and that was my point. If you look back, I was saying why I think a lot of fast people (a group in which I don't include myself but does comprise a number of my teammates) decided not to go, you know, personally, individually. And I think, honestly, being far from major airports (and thus requiring a transfer or a long drive) was an even bigger deciding factor. I don't love Seattle either, but we went cause it was easy enough to fly into.

And Puerto Rico is a good comparison, as well. What do you think the East/West split on that will be? Does that make the West Coasters who stay home jerks who should put on their very own show? Or only the ones who say out loud they don't want to go because the location is incovenient?

Although that may have been your point, what you wrote was, in my opinion, disrespectful but we'll write it off as miscommunication due to our choice of media for whatever the reason, "pleasant" being the operative word here. My Mama taught me that "if you can't say something nice, shutup". Just kidding...kind of.

I'm just thankful there are groups out there (wherever "there" may be) that are willing to host these events. I may go and I may not. I certainly understand others have their reasons as well for going or not and we'll just leave it as that.

some_girl
April 20th, 2009, 03:21 PM
Although that may have been your point, what you wrote was, in my opinion, disrespectful but we'll write it off as miscommunication due to our choice of media for whatever the reason, "pleasant" being the operative word here. My Mama taught me that "if you can't say something nice, shutup". Just kidding...kind of.

I'm just thankful there are groups out there (wherever "there" may be) that are willing to host these events. I may go and I may not. I certainly understand others have their reasons as well for going or not and we'll just leave it as that.

That's funny, my mom once said if you cried every time someone didn't like where you lived, you wouldn't have much time to do anything else. I think she also had choice words about attempting to cow people with trite sayings.

osterber
April 23rd, 2009, 09:57 AM
Also, I think we discussed this before, but my impression is that the lack of Northeast nationals has a lot more to do with location requirements than people's unwillingness to put forth effort. I don't think we were able to come up with a pool that had room for two courses and ample warmdown.


About the only facility in the northeast that could think about hosting master's nationals would be Long Island, and I don't think that would be sufficiently large enough for a meet like this. We squeeze about 850 swimmers into our masters meet at Harvard, and that's at the breaking point.

-Rick

That Guy
April 26th, 2009, 05:56 PM
What about Buffalo? Admittedly I haven't seen the Buffalo pool in <mumble> years, but it seemed big enough for Masters Nationals.

pwolf66
April 26th, 2009, 07:46 PM
What about Buffalo? Admittedly I haven't seen the Buffalo pool in <mumble> years, but it seemed big enough for Masters Nationals.

From what I understand, the issue with that facility is warm up/warm down space.

That Guy
April 26th, 2009, 10:55 PM
I remember Buffalo's diving well being comparable to Federal Way's, but maybe it's smaller. And Federal Way also has three additional lanes in the kiddie pool... yeah I guess that's it.