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The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 01:46 PM
Anyone have experience swimming in meets on consecutive weekends? I've never done this myself, but am contemplating doing meets April 24-25 (Zones, SCY) and May 3 (SCM). Was planning to rest a week or so for Zones and then just keep resting. My main worry is that I'm usually pretty zonked for a few days after a two day meet. Is this a bad idea? Any advice?

My main motivation to go to the second meet is that I'm not sure I'll get another SCM meet in this year. There are no local meets, and right now I have family conflicts with travel meets.

TRYM_Swimmer
April 14th, 2009, 01:59 PM
Go for it! Just keep resting.

Where is the SCM meet? Might be up your way that weekend.

Allen Stark
April 14th, 2009, 02:00 PM
I already PMd you this(I hope you got it) but I'll post for everyone.I did back to back meets a few years ago a SCM and then a SCY.The SCM meet was more important to me so I did my regular taper for it.I didn't have a great meet for unknown reasons(though a 7 hr drive to the meet probably didn't help.)The next week I did my usual week before a meet work-warm up,a very little race pace just to keep the feel and the a long cool down.I had a great meet that time.Listen to your body and make sure you get lots of rest and sleep.Also,at the SCY meet I'd say don't overload your schedule.You have some fast times from earlier so don't feel like you must swim every thing.Also that would not be a good meet to find out if you really want to swim the 200 fly.

The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 02:54 PM
Go for it! Just keep resting.

Where is the SCM meet? Might be up your way that weekend.

The SCM meet is in NY,

http://www.revereswimming.com/documents/Elements%20of%20Speed.pdf

The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 02:57 PM
I already PMd you this(I hope you got it) but I'll post for everyone.I did back to back meets a few years ago a SCM and then a SCY.The SCM meet was more important to me so I did my regular taper for it.I didn't have a great meet for unknown reasons(though a 7 hr drive to the meet probably didn't help.)The next week I did my usual week before a meet work-warm up,a very little race pace just to keep the feel and the a long cool down.I had a great meet that time.Listen to your body and make sure you get lots of rest and sleep.Also,at the SCY meet I'd say don't overload your schedule.You have some fast times from earlier so don't feel like you must swim every thing.Also that would not be a good meet to find out if you really want to swim the 200 fly.

Got the PM! Thanks.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty booked up at the SCY meet with relays and such -- another reason why I was worried about doing a back to back meet. My team is hosting and we try to make a run at the medium team championship. I will scratch individual events if I get tired. I'm unconcerned with my yard times. No worries about the 200 fly!

I'll work on sleep. At the moment, I'm rather dead from a trip to the west coast last week.

BillS
April 14th, 2009, 04:11 PM
Anyone have experience swimming in meets on consecutive weekends? I've never done this myself, but am contemplating doing meets April 24-25 (Zones, SCY) and May 3 (SCM). Was planning to rest a week or so for Zones and then just keep resting. My main worry is that I'm usually pretty zonked for a few days after a two day meet. Is this a bad idea? Any advice?

My main motivation to go to the second meet is that I'm not sure I'll get another SCM meet in this year. There are no local meets, and right now I have family conflicts with travel meets.

I'll let you know on Monday. I swam PNA champs last Friday/Saturday. I signed up for 6 events, but in a rare moment of clarity/self preservation, fortuitously scratched the 200 free.

I'm swimming 6 individuals and probably 4 relays this weekend for the Oregon champs. Swam through PNA, slacking off a little this week to get ready for our meet. Ours is in Bend, elevation 3,500 or so. I suffered mightily there from the altitude a couple of years ago, and the pain is still fresh in my mind.

swimshark
April 14th, 2009, 04:22 PM
I'll let you know on Monday. I swam PNA champs last Friday/Saturday. I signed up for 6 events, but in a rare moment of clarity/self preservation, fortuitously scratched the 200 free.

I'm swimming 6 individuals and probably 4 relays this weekend for the Oregon champs. Swam through PNA, slacking off a little this week to get ready for our meet. Ours is in Bend, elevation 3,500 or so. I suffered mightily there from the altitude a couple of years ago, and the pain is still fresh in my mind.

Oh Bill. I know that altitude suffering. I hope you do well this weekend. I wish I was there....

imspoiled
April 14th, 2009, 04:27 PM
I do back-to-back meets quite a bit. Most recently swam the Albatross just 6 days after a local SCY meet. LCM zones always seems to be on the weekend after LCM nationals, so I've done that back-to-back as well.

If you're doing a full taper for zones, then I would suggest doing just what Allen says. Short, warm-up/cool down swims during the week with just a bit of speed work. You'll still be riding your taper at the next meet.

Keep up your feel for the water and don't overload yourself at the SCM meet.

pwolf66
April 14th, 2009, 04:32 PM
I did back to back in August. LCM Nats in Portland then LCM Zones. I swam only once in the week between, 2 days after getting back from Portland. As long as you can curb that inner endorphin junkie that you carry around with you, you should be fine. I would recommend that you swim no more than twice in the week between and those swims should be more recovery focused to flush out the fatigue and keep you nice and loose.

And don't give up hope. There might be a SCM meet in November in the DC area :-)

jim thornton
April 14th, 2009, 04:56 PM
Hi, Leslie. I did this last year--our Y 2-day meet, followed four days later by CZ. Most of my events, I did better at Zones, most likely because it's a better pool and not so hot as the temperature they keep it at Clarion U (the janitors seem to have control over the thermostat that not even the college coach can usurp.)

Anyhow, both meets I swam the 1000, 500, 200, 100, and 50 freestyles. I was 3 secs slower in the 500 at Zones, I think partly from accumulated fatigue.

I don't think that sprints would take quite so much a toll, especially if you make sure to restore all your nutrition, etc.

Maybe the weight lifting community could offer a word here, given that all out swim sprints probably have more to do with anaerobic conditioning.

To wit, if you do an all out dead lift on day 1, how long does it take your body to completely recover? I would imagine you would be fine in a couple days, assuming your body was used to dead lifts. But I don't know for sure. It would seem that whatever muscle fibers get torn in the process would have a chance to knit back even stronger with a week?

The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 05:17 PM
I do back-to-back meets quite a bit. Most recently swam the Albatross just 6 days after a local SCY meet. LCM zones always seems to be on the weekend after LCM nationals, so I've done that back-to-back as well.

If you're doing a full taper for zones, then I would suggest doing just what Allen says. Short, warm-up/cool down swims during the week with just a bit of speed work. You'll still be riding your taper at the next meet.

Keep up your feel for the water and don't overload yourself at the SCM meet.

You and your cohort Michelina are meet goddesses. :bow: Think you're in better shape than me.

No full taper for Zones. I'll probably be in the feeling like crap stage for that meet.

If I can't overload myself, I guess the 50 breast will just HAVE to go. lol

The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 05:20 PM
I did back to back in August. LCM Nats in Portland then LCM Zones. I swam only once in the week between, 2 days after getting back from Portland. As long as you can curb that inner endorphin junkie that you carry around with you, you should be fine. I would recommend that you swim no more than twice in the week between and those swims should be more recovery focused to flush out the fatigue and keep you nice and loose.

And don't give up hope. There might be a SCM meet in November in the DC area :-)

I can, every so often, put the brakes on my inner endorphin junkie. :D I can't say a break from the weight room will be totally unwelcome ...

What intelligence do you have about a Nov. SCM meet?! I keep suggesting that the Sprint Classic be meters one year, but it appears most folks are very attached to yards.

The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 05:24 PM
Anyhow, both meets I swam the 1000, 500, 200, 100, and 50 freestyles. I was 3 secs slower in the 500 at Zones, I think partly from accumulated fatigue.

I don't think that sprints would take quite so much a toll, especially if you make sure to restore all your nutrition, etc.

Maybe the weight lifting community could offer a word here, given that all out swim sprints probably have more to do with anaerobic conditioning.

To wit, if you do an all out dead lift on day 1, how long does it take your body to completely recover? I would imagine you would be fine in a couple days, assuming your body was used to dead lifts. But I don't know for sure. It would seem that whatever muscle fibers get torn in the process would have a chance to knit back even stronger with a week?

I don't know about sprints taking less of a toll ... Sprinting is freaking exhausting! And I wonder if sprinters recover as well as distance folks? After a hard two day meet, I often don't feel normal until Wed or so.

I've been trying to do hard speed work on multiple days in a row to get my body used to the feeling of a multi-day meet. Meet #2 is a Sunday, so I could be OK by then if I just float around the days in between.

nYcSurfer
April 14th, 2009, 05:50 PM
The SCM meet is in NY

Are you talking about the NYC Master's Meet at Flushing Meadows? I'll probably go to that one too.

Good luck if you decide to do both. I would get in the pool during the week and stretch out a little, but ultimately, a lot of rest will be fine.

jim thornton
April 14th, 2009, 05:58 PM
I could be OK by then if I just float around the days in between.

What a lovely image: our lackadaisical Leslie, lallygagging lazily in leisurely limbo!

Forget swim camps! You should open your own Taper Academy. I would very much like to enroll in the summer session, you know, the one that begins on June 3rd and runs till September, 27th?

Prepare the Compound for an extended stay!

Paul Smith
April 14th, 2009, 06:04 PM
Leslie, one "red flag" I saw in your plan was to rest "a week or so" for the first event. 5-7 tapers are usually setting you up to be at your lowest energy point...the "magic" tends to happen with a shorter 3 day taper or a 10-14 day taper.

Back to back meets a week apart are not a probklem for most swimmers who have stayed pretty consistent in their training. The key is to not come into workouts following the first meet with any kind of mindset that you need to "get back into shape". For me I would take the Monday off completely, on Tuesday I'd go about 2000 long and easy recovery, Wednesday & Thursday pre-meet warm-up with only a few build 50's and fast 25's.

The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 06:28 PM
Leslie, one "red flag" I saw in your plan was to rest "a week or so" for the first event. 5-7 tapers are usually setting you up to be at your lowest energy point...the "magic" tends to happen with a shorter 3 day taper or a 10-14 day taper.

Back to back meets a week apart are not a problem for most swimmers who have stayed pretty consistent in their training. The key is to not come into workouts following the first meet with any kind of mindset that you need to "get back into shape". For me I would take the Monday off completely, on Tuesday I'd go about 2000 long and easy recovery, Wednesday & Thursday pre-meet warm-up with only a few build 50's and fast 25's.

Thanks Paul. That sounds like a good between meet plan. I know you are a staunch opponent of the 7 day taper. That's one reason I've been contemplating doing 10 days instead. I'm just undecided on the amount of rest ... as I did a 2 week taper the beginning of February and am not too worried about my Zones times. (Though I'd like to swim a decent 100 free -- I know, it's a shocker.) However, I have been training like crazy the last two months and lifting frequently. I'm a pretty consistent trainer, as evidenced by Hulk's poking fun at me for being an endorphin addict. I know better than to try to "get back in shape" between the meets. I'll be too flattened after Zones anyway to be tempted to ramp it up.

I did do a 5 day mini taper for a meet in mid March, and did pretty decent times though.

The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 06:32 PM
What a lovely image: our lackadaisical Leslie, lallygagging lazily in leisurely limbo!

Forget swim camps! You should open your own Taper Academy. I would very much like to enroll in the summer session, you know, the one that begins on June 3rd and runs till September, 27th?

Prepare the Compound for an extended stay!

Hmmm ... If you'd like to join me for my regular workout regimen, I'd be happy to have you! However, that means you have to lift a weight, do core work and run occasionally. :P And just because I'm a sprinter doesn't mean I don't train hard. Just ask Hulk about our last workout together ...

The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 06:33 PM
Are you talking about the NYC Master's Meet at Flushing Meadows? I'll probably go to that one too.

Good luck if you decide to do both. I would get in the pool during the week and stretch out a little, but ultimately, a lot of rest will be fine.

Yes, that's the meet. I've heard it's a pretty nice pool. Hope to meet you there!

geochuck
April 14th, 2009, 06:36 PM
When I raced the Marathon circuit it was every weekend from the 1st week in July until 2nd or third week in September. We would also race a couple of times in the same week. Sure it was hard but that is how I made my money. I would take 2 days off after a race. Now do we call that a taper???

ALM
April 14th, 2009, 06:50 PM
When I raced the Marathon circuit it was every weekend from the 1st week in July until 2nd or third week in September. We would also race a couple of times in the same week. Sure it was hard but that is how I made my money. I would take 2 days off after a race. Now do we call that a taper???

....And it was all uphill.... :blah:

Just kidding, George!

Paul Smith
April 14th, 2009, 07:29 PM
When I raced the Marathon circuit it was every weekend from the 1st week in July until 2nd or third week in September. We would also race a couple of times in the same week. Sure it was hard but that is how I made my money. I would take 2 days off after a race. Now do we call that a taper???

George, you bring up an interesting point.

I've discussed with a lot of friends and coaches how unbelievebly fast many of the college and USA/foreign swimmers are going during an entire season (college and world cup for example)...usually with a minimal amount of time drop for the final meet of the season....pretty foriegn concept to most masters swimmers (the exception being Karlyn & dennis Baker perhaps).

Since most masters swimmers train in what I would call the "old school" training mindset...beat the crap our of yourself for 2-6 months then full on taper for one big meet...few people are comfortable with 1, 2 or 3 high quality rested meets in a short period of time.

jim thornton
April 14th, 2009, 07:37 PM
George, can you teach me how to make money from swimming? I am open to putting on exhibitions, but I don't want these to be too degrading.

geochuck
April 14th, 2009, 07:59 PM
Paul the only big layoff was after the season was over and then there were a few years that the season on the circuit went into November. The only down time would be the trip to the races on the other continents. Fly to Europe, then fly to Egypt or South America. It usually took a day or two to get where you were going.

Even as an amateur we raced in Ontario, Tues little duel meets mid week races then Meets on the weekends. No taper Just race. Our club used to swim dual meets with several Universitys and of course all of our club swimmers also practiced waterpolo 2 or three times a week and then The waterpolo games playing waterpolo every week. We spent our lives in the pool.

The Fortress
April 14th, 2009, 08:29 PM
George, you bring up an interesting point.

I've discussed with a lot of friends and coaches how unbelievebly fast many of the college and USA/foreign swimmers are going during an entire season (college and world cup for example)...usually with a minimal amount of time drop for the final meet of the season....pretty foriegn concept to most masters swimmers (the exception being Karlyn & dennis Baker perhaps).

Since most masters swimmers train in what I would call the "old school" training mindset...beat the crap our of yourself for 2-6 months then full on taper for one big meet...few people are comfortable with 1, 2 or 3 high quality rested meets in a short period of time.

So are you thinking of competing this way, Paul?

I actually rest and wear tech suits at every meet, though the rest is usually short 3-5 day type rest. But it's sort of hard, logistically, for most masters to attempt 3 meets in a short time frame, don't you think? Otherwise, perhaps more would not be so philosophically opposed to this mindset?

SwimStud
April 14th, 2009, 08:34 PM
Did somebody say "tech suit?"
...any minute now...

geochuck
April 14th, 2009, 08:41 PM
NO not too hard.


So are you thinking of competing this way, Paul?

I actually rest and wear tech suits at every meet, though the rest is usually short 3-5 day type rest. But it's sort of hard, logistically, for most masters to attempt 3 meets in a short time frame, don't you think? Otherwise, perhaps more would not be so philosophically opposed to this mindset?

qbrain
April 14th, 2009, 08:42 PM
I can't say a break from the weight room will be totally unwelcome ...


I heard that.

imspoiled
April 15th, 2009, 10:42 AM
You and your cohort Michelina are meet goddesses. :bow: Think you're in better shape than me.

No full taper for Zones. I'll probably be in the feeling like crap stage for that meet.

If I can't overload myself, I guess the 50 breast will just HAVE to go. lol

Better shape than you? HA! I've turned into a couch potato.

I'm sure you'll do fine at both meets. If you're really worried, you can swim in my lanes at zones. I wouldn't mind recording some of your times as my own:bump:

pwolf66
April 15th, 2009, 11:21 AM
What intelligence do you have about a Nov. SCM meet?! I keep suggesting that the Sprint Classic be meters one year, but it appears most folks are very attached to yards.

Well, Germantown Masters is trying to host a meet a the GISC but we're having issues with getting the facility. Another possibility is having it at MAC. We want to have a SCM meet in Nov so not being able to have it a GISC is not a show stopper.

The Fortress
April 15th, 2009, 11:32 AM
Well, Germantown Masters is trying to host a meet a the GISC but we're having issues with getting the facility. Another possibility is having it at MAC. We want to have a SCM meet in Nov so not being able to have it a GISC is not a show stopper.

Is GISC where Sectionals was held?

Is the SCM meet a PV goal from the last PV meeting?

The Fortress
April 15th, 2009, 11:35 AM
I heard that.

I read that.

Now, now, it's been awhile since I complained about "hating" weights.

Paul Smith
April 15th, 2009, 12:24 PM
Paul the only big layoff was after the season was over and then there were a few years that the season on the circuit went into November. The only down time would be the trip to the races on the other continents. Fly to Europe, then fly to Egypt or South America. It usually took a day or two to get where you were going.

Even as an amateur we raced in Ontario, Tues little duel meets mid week races then Meets on the weekends. No taper Just race. Our club used to swim dual meets with several Universitys and of course all of our club swimmers also practiced waterpolo 2 or three times a week and then The waterpolo games playing waterpolo every week. We spent our lives in the pool.

George, I must assume one of two things: A) You have been on a life long taper or B) You are overtrained from all those years and need to finally start one!

Fort...big ole horses like me can't pull off fast swims in-season like those skinny little guys Baker & Stevenson. I'll keep settling for the broken down sorry ass times I swim over several months of the season for that big drop at nationals!

pwolf66
April 15th, 2009, 01:03 PM
Is GISC where Sectionals was held?

Is the SCM meet a PV goal from the last PV meeting?

Yes and yes

orca1946
April 15th, 2009, 01:59 PM
Sure you can do it. A little recovery time may be added in,but if it's fun - go for it!