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trinollinger
April 20th, 2009, 03:26 PM
Okay, who does an old-style breaststroke kick and who does the "whip kick"? I still do the old "in-out and around" that I was taught as a six and under. I would love to try to perfect the whip, but will it really make a difference?

JimRude
April 20th, 2009, 03:29 PM
Okay, who does an old-style breaststroke kick and who does the "whip kick"? I still do the old "in-out and around" that I was taught as a six and under. I would love to try to perfect the whip, but will it really make a difference?

Watch some of the video's at Glenn Mills' site, Go Swim TV. The drills and technique videos will be very instructive.

TRYM_Swimmer
April 20th, 2009, 06:07 PM
I've been doing a whip for years, but we have a thirty-something lady on our team, who finished in the top ten at world's in CA and her kick is still a little three-part. She can turn it over nonetheless! The coach and I marvel at her kick whenever we watch her.

Allen Stark
April 22nd, 2009, 12:04 AM
Definitely whip kick.The out ,back and end kick is just slower,a lot slower.I see people all the time who are fairly fast with significant stroke flaws,that doesn't make it right.A good drill for you might be swimming breaststroke with a pull buoy between your knees.

jim clemmons
April 22nd, 2009, 11:15 AM
Whip.

Speaking of "whips"...:agree:

TRYM_Swimmer
April 22nd, 2009, 01:36 PM
Definitely whip kick.The out ,back and end kick is just slower,a lot slower.I see people all the time who are fairly fast with significant stroke flaws,that doesn't make it right.A good drill for you might be swimming breaststroke with a pull buoy between your knees.

Definitely agree with the drill, Allen. As a side note, another good breaststroke drill, if you're getting too much head action, is holding a tennis ball under your chin.

haffathot
April 22nd, 2009, 05:11 PM
A full whip kick can really destroy your knees. I tell my kids to bend into a W formation, slam down, slam together. I'm pretty sure I got that from breaststroke.info once upon a time ago, but I can't seem to find it anymore. It's basically a hybrid of the wedge and whip kicks. It's easier on your knees while not sacrificing really on the benefits of the whip.

--Sean

Fresnoid
April 22nd, 2009, 09:56 PM
By far the best breaststroke is no breaststroke.:D

Allen Stark
April 23rd, 2009, 10:53 AM
A full whip kick can really destroy your knees. I tell my kids to bend into a W formation, slam down, slam together. I'm pretty sure I got that from breaststroke.info once upon a time ago, but I can't seem to find it anymore. It's basically a hybrid of the wedge and whip kicks. It's easier on your knees while not sacrificing really on the benefits of the whip.

--Sean

I'm not sure what that would look like.I am also not always sure what people are meaning when they say "whip kick".This is my description of the kick:draw your feet up as close to your rear as you can by bending at the knees only,rapidly externally rotate your feet as far out as you can,kick straight back as hard as your can while vigorously internally rotating your feet so that they finish with the soles together.The feeling is mostly to be kicking straight back,but ther fact the feet start outside the knees makes it a curve.The important thing is never kick out.

haffathot
April 23rd, 2009, 11:20 AM
Well, my understanding is that the use of the word, "whip," to describe the kick came from likening the kick to the movement of egg beaters. With a true whip kick, then, nearly all of the motion is focused on your leg below the knee. Your heels go inward to your bum, outward past your sides, and then inward away from your bum. As such, your lower leg basically rotates in a circle around your knee during a cycle of the kick, and so your knees, being the pivot point, take some serious wear and tear over time.

The wedge kick, on the other hand, draws your knees and thighs underneath your trunk, extends the legs outward, and then closes straight. While incorporating the thighs in on the kick reduces the burden on your lower leg, and therefore the knee, the drag created by the cannonball-like wind-up slows you way down.

The W kick draws the knees in like the whip, but, instead of bringing the heels to the bum, the heels go to the sides of the bum, thereby creating a bit of a W shape with the lower leg, inner thigh, inner thigh, lower leg structure of the wind-up. From there, the lower legs swing downward to the outside and then together, like the whip, but, because of the separation of the thighs in the initial wind-up, the thighs have to be incorporated into the snap together, thereby reducing the burden of the knees by increasing the burden of the thighs.

--Sean