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View Full Version : Alain Bernard - 46.94 100 meter free



Tim L
April 23rd, 2009, 03:07 PM
YouTube - 100 free semi final -world record by alain bernard

Another world record in the 100 meter free. Looks like Bernard is wearing an Arena tech suit. It seemed like a pretty controlled swim. I wonder how long it will take to get down to 46.5 (maybe this summer?).

The French relay looks like it will be even better at Worlds.

Tim

Speedo
April 23rd, 2009, 03:36 PM
Not only no SDKs, but he went the least distance underwater on the turn- By far.

Cool video- thanks for sharing.

Crazyman
April 23rd, 2009, 03:43 PM
Yes, no SDK there was made...nice video. Thanks

JMiller
April 23rd, 2009, 03:58 PM
Another world record in the 100 meter free. Looks like Bernard is wearing an Arena tech suit. It seemed like a pretty controlled swim. I wonder how long it will take to get down to 46.5 (maybe this summer?)
Tim


Hey Tim, thanks for posting this. WHOA!!?? Bernard was a full body length in front of the WR red line, with 15 meters to go, and just finished slightly ahead. Looking forward to seeing the finals!

On another note, some interesting camera work being done, good to see!!
:applaud:

Warren
April 23rd, 2009, 04:00 PM
last week was the jaked, this week its the arena x-glide that is the best suit...This is so stupid.

Karen Duggan
April 23rd, 2009, 04:02 PM
I guess I'm used to, or comfortable with, being lapped by a lot faster people in a SCY pool, but this guy could almost lap me LONG COURSE! :lmao:

JMiller
April 23rd, 2009, 04:03 PM
last week was the jaked, this week its the arena x-glide that is the best suit...This is so stupid.

Has Bernard raced in the Jaked?

Warren
April 23rd, 2009, 04:05 PM
Has Bernard raced in the Jaked?


I don't think so, but everyone is automaticly going to assume that the arena suit is the best now. I could be wrong about that. But it seems like the overall best suit switches all the time.

lefty
April 23rd, 2009, 04:27 PM
Not only no SDKs, but he went the least distance underwater on the turn- By far.

Cool video- thanks for sharing.

He got beat pretty handily on the start by the guy in lane 3 though

knelson
April 23rd, 2009, 04:52 PM
Bernard was a full body length in front of the WR red line, with 15 meteres to go, and just finished slightly ahead.

This happens all the time, though. Remember they only know the world record splits so that red line is going to move at a constant speed representing the time for that 50 meters. Obviously you're going the fastest right out of the turn, so it's natural that the 'red line' will have a tendency to catch up at the end of the length. Not saying he didn't die a little, but I think this explains some of it.

RuffWater
April 23rd, 2009, 05:08 PM
I don't think so, but everyone is automaticly going to assume that the arena suit is the best now. I could be wrong about that. But it seems like the overall best suit switches all the time.

It's what's inside the suit that matters.

Warren
April 23rd, 2009, 05:22 PM
It's what's inside the suit that matters.

We all know that Bernard is a great swimmer. He beat everyone in beijing when everyone was wearing the same suit. He's proved that he is #1 already. But when it comes to breaking sulivans wr in a different suit, it comes down to whats on the outside of the swimmer. Could he have done this in an lzr? We don't know, thats the problem. Bernards coach said that he is going to wear the fastest suit, he choose the arena x-glide. I guess he thinks the lzr is slower than the x-glide. It's an incredible swim but there are no standards for comparison so it comes down to whats on the outside, we already know what he has on the inside.

RuffWater
April 23rd, 2009, 05:32 PM
There's a chance Arena is paying him more than Speedo. Just a slight chance.

JMiller
April 23rd, 2009, 05:47 PM
This happens all the time, though. Remember they only know the world record splits so that red line is going to move at a constant speed representing the time for that 50 meters.

Huh? Is that how they make the WR line? Wouldn't it be simple to actually have the red line generated from the prior footage? A simple computer program could track the "real" line. No?

Daaaave
April 23rd, 2009, 05:56 PM
Could he have done this in an lzr? We don't know, thats the problem.

Could he have done it in a different pool? We don't know. Different cap and goggles? We don't know.


It's an incredible swim but there are no standards for comparison

The standard for comparison is that it was 100 meters of freestyle racing. I get the point about tech suit vs. no tech suit, but saying that you can't make valid comparisons across swims in different brands of tech suits seems like we're reducing the argument to a very absurd end.

I'll be in the weight room if anyone needs me.

KeithM
April 23rd, 2009, 06:45 PM
It's what's inside the suit that matters.
Right. If you swam a 48.4 in 2007 you were crowned World Champion.

Let's see Bernard wear the FS Pro then.

Speedo
April 23rd, 2009, 06:49 PM
Huh? Is that how they make the WR line? Wouldn't it be simple to actually have the red line generated from the prior footage? A simple computer program could track the "real" line. No?
It's possible I think- they did something like that with downhill skiing a few years ago if I remember correctly. But that was on the same course from the same camera position- might be more difficult with different and new perspectives. Maybe they could change the rates between lane line meter marks? Interesting question, JMiller.

CAZ99
April 23rd, 2009, 08:40 PM
he may be the fastest right now, but he is still FRENCH...

:applaud:

rtodd
April 23rd, 2009, 09:15 PM
So much for straight arm recovery. To say you can recover the arm faster in straight arm is a bunch of bull. By bending your elbow you can reduce your arm's polar moment of inertia. The shoulder can accelerate the arm with less torque than straight arm would require.

knelson
April 24th, 2009, 01:00 PM
Wouldn't it be simple to actually have the red line generated from the prior footage? A simple computer program could track the "real" line. No?

I don't think there's anything simple about that red line at all. If you think about it they need to know the position and focal length of the camera at all times. When the entire pool is in view how does the computer know where the camera is looking?

I think you're right that if they had footage from the existing record swim it is theoretically possible, but it would be extremely complicated. Again, how do they know exactly where the camera is looking especially when the entire pool is not in view?

Rykno
April 24th, 2009, 01:07 PM
they could have a track on lane one with a laser, that goes back and fourth the pool as they swim. then it doesn't matter where the camera is or the zoom, because the laser would be realtime on the pool edge.

what I've seen with skiiing is they overlap the footage, showing the first skier in phantom mode

quicksilver
April 24th, 2009, 01:22 PM
Why not a bunny? Like in greyhound racing.

Much less high tech.

Warren
April 24th, 2009, 01:27 PM
Bernard's team mate Fred Bousquet went a 47.15 in the finals today.

JMiller
April 24th, 2009, 01:48 PM
Why not a bunny? Like in greyhound racing.
Much less high tech.

Or why not a holograph of Marilyn?

1437

knelson
April 24th, 2009, 02:24 PM
they could have a track on lane one with a laser, that goes back and fourth the pool as they swim. then it doesn't matter where the camera is or the zoom, because the laser would be realtime on the pool edge.

Two huge problems with that.
1. Who wants a laser shining into their eyes?
2. You can't see the beam unless there's something to scatter it. Think about the laser used to stop a garage door when something's in the path. You can't see the beam. Same thing with a laser pointer. You only see the dot of light on the screen, you don't see the beam. Also water splashing around everyone would scatter the beam like crazy.

Ian Smith
April 24th, 2009, 02:53 PM
There's a chance Arena is paying him more than Speedo. Just a slight chance.

You're such a cynic, Rob.

I'm sure, like Ande, he tried all the suits in practice and picked the fastest.

But, oh yea, as someone pointed out, he is French - so he tested them in theory.........

The fact that he is built like a brick ablusion block, has a beautiful stroke, has a proven track (ok, pool) record and is young enough to improve have nothing to do with it.

Ian
Fellow cynic.

JMiller
April 24th, 2009, 03:20 PM
It would be cool though if we could have alternate camera angles of the water, not just the swimmer. Like when the wave comes off the start/turn, or an up-close look at the water off the feet in slow mode, etc. Pan in and out of these different angles with pictures of Marilyn in bewteen... haha

smontanaro
April 24th, 2009, 04:22 PM
I don't think there's anything simple about that red line at all....

I think you're right that if they had footage from the existing record swim it is theoretically possible....

I'm sure it's more than theoretically possible. Back in the day (late 80s, early 90s) when I worked for GE R&D, the group I worked in developed a putting visualizer for golf tournaments. Ahead of time, they had to:


survey the green to build a 3D model of it (this happened a week or two in advance)
on tournament day set up the surveyor in the camera blind, orient him w.r.t. the green and get the location of the hole
as the golfers walked up the fairway, locate the ball on the green, solve the differential equations for putting the ball in the hole and generate the graphics for Johnny Miller, et al, so they could talk about it


This was quite a challenge for the computers we had available at the time, but it worked well. Computationally it would be trivial today.

I'm sure that calculating the location of the red line would be challenging, but think about it:


you'd only have to do it after the fact if a world record was set
you'd only have to do it for the winner of the race, and only if
you wouldn't have to do it in real time
once computed it would be good until the next time


The only real question is whether the cost would enhance the viewer's experience. It might be helpful for experts such as the folks on this list, but the average couch potato would probably not notice unless the network came up with some snappy name for the feature, tied it to a big-name sponsor ("Michael, let's replay your race and superimpose the Doritos Couch Potato Red Line and see how you destroyed Alain's world record set in the French national meet") and flogged the feature endlessly.

marksman
April 24th, 2009, 05:32 PM
I hope the americans can put up a good showing...the french will be so fast though in the 4x100.

Here's to hoping that they are peaking too early for world's.

rtodd
April 24th, 2009, 08:30 PM
If Phelps swims the 100 free at worlds, I think he will break the world record. Does anyone else think that?

KeithM
April 24th, 2009, 08:57 PM
I hope the americans can put up a good showing...the french will be so fast though in the 4x100.

Here's to hoping that they are peaking too early for world's.
It looks bleak now for the US chances in this relay. But many thought the same last year. The French have another swimmer putting up some big swims, who is this Meynard (47.7)? Did he even make the finals at French trials last year? So they've got another stud to toss in with the other four guys.


If Phelps swims the 100 free at worlds, I think he will break the world record. Does anyone else think that?
I'll be impressed to see him just make the team. I'll return to that thought after Charlotte.

quicksilver
April 24th, 2009, 09:48 PM
I think he will break the world record. Does anyone else think that?Yes. Maybe not right away, but you never know.

Looking forward to the debut of his new freestyle.

hofffam
April 25th, 2009, 12:30 PM
Do the people here really believe there is that much difference between the leading tech suits?

Since Bernard got beat in finals does that mean his Arena suit got slower in that race? And Bousquet's got faster?

The biggest variable BY FAR is the swimmer. Warren says we already know what is inside the suit. But the performance of what is inside the suit changes by day, by hour, etc.

Human performance is not consistent nor repeatable enough to simply say Bernards suit now establishes "the fastest."

ande
April 25th, 2009, 02:58 PM
this WR might not stand

Bernard World Record Must Not Be Approved By FINA (http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/20965.asp?q=Bernard%20World%20Record%20Must%20Not% 20Be%20Approved%20By%20FINA)
-- April 24, 2009

PHOENIX, Arizona, April 24. ACCORDING to Craig Lord with SwimNews.com, a spokesman for FINA confirmed that, "FINA will publish a list of all approved suits sometime in May" and acknowledged that, "Alain Bernard (FRA) raced to a world record of 46.96 in the 100m freestyle at French nationals in an Arena suit, the X-Glide, that has not yet been approved for use in competition."
FINA rules that govern suits clearly state that a suit must be approved by FINA for a world record to stand.

Lord goes on to report that the "independent testing process currently being carried out in a laboratory at Lausanne University in Switzerland is in the midst of compiling a list of ticks and possibly crosses. That work will translate to a list of approved suits ‘within a couple of weeks, probably'".

Craig Lord continues to monitor every move that surrounds the swimsuit controversy.

rtodd
April 25th, 2009, 03:18 PM
I'll be impressed to see him just make the team. I'll return to that thought after Charlotte.

So being 0.2 seconds behind the world record holder (and 0.5 seconds off the actual record) in the 4x100 after swimming a hard 200 30 minutes earlier didn't make that much of an impression?

Maybe I am off my rocker but Bowman will probably make him break it in practice before he rolls it out.

taruky
April 27th, 2009, 05:03 PM
I am curious about how some of these guys with dropped elbows and low catch points can go so fast. Are they fast despite the stroke flaw? Or is it one of those deals where if you have the strength to do it you can go faster. Guy has massive shoulders, I'm sure his shoulders bear the brunt of the work.

lefty
April 27th, 2009, 06:46 PM
something I find interesting: why did Bernard where the old suit in finals? I think the answer is pretty evident, he wanted to reset the record in a currently approved suit. The fact that he wasn't even close...well... that bothers me.

Mswimming
April 27th, 2009, 06:56 PM
something I find interesting: why did Bernard where the old suit in finals? I think the answer is pretty evident, he wanted to reset the record in a currently approved suit. The fact that he wasn't even close...well... that bothers me.

I agree, I think that was exactly the reason he wore an older (approved suit).

lefty
April 27th, 2009, 06:58 PM
I agree, I think that was exactly the reason he wore an older (approved suit).

So if the Jaked suit gets banned...does UT win the 2009 NCAA title?