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isobel
May 12th, 2009, 02:46 AM
Curious about how many people used Ande's virtual coaching for Nationals, and which tips helped most.

This could also be known as isobel's cliff notes for Ande's swimming tips.

Muchas gracias.

Rykno
May 12th, 2009, 03:33 AM
I've tried most if not all the tips I have gotten from Ande when I have posted a question.

and I am pretty sure I have tried most of the things that come up that I have similar issues with.

Syd
May 12th, 2009, 09:03 AM
I have learned more from Ande and other members of this board than I did as a kid from all my coaches.

My first coach just wrote workouts on index cards, slipped them into a clear plastic bag, pinned them to the blocks and did his own thing....I don't know what, but I do know that he eventually became a real estate agent.

My second coach used to give us these incredibly long sets like 1000m or 1500m of straight crawl (and this was a 50m pool) then he would go to his office and read the newspaper.

My third coach was the nicest and the most interested. He is still involved in swimming now, has his own aquatic center and had a swimmer who did really well at the most recent para-olympics. But soon after I moved into his care I went to boarding school and left town and only swam with him during the holidays.

I stopped swimming when I was 16 and only started up again just over a year ago. There was so much I had forgotten and so many questions I needed to ask. This board has been an outstanding resource.

So I am extremely grateful to people like Ande and other members of this board who are so generous with their knowledge.

isobel
May 12th, 2009, 12:55 PM
OK. I'll be more honest. Ahelee, what were the most important things Ande suggested to you, since you blew the field away in many events that I also swim?

I love Ande's swimming tips, but I need a cheat sheet. How to choose which of the many things to work on? Kicking, yes, kicking very important. Sprinting, yes, sprinting at practice more than once or twice before meets very important.

Dolphin kicking very important. Working my turns very important.

Swimming fast at practice to swim fast at meets very important.

Ande knows it is summer here in Boston and now I am a menace on the Charles River Basin in my Mercury sailboat at Community Boating, potentially crashing into the Duck Boats and definitely terrified of docking and going downwind. There is no hope of a blizzard until next January, so my obsession with swimming is likely to strengthen. I have translated some Spanish posts on GoSwimWeekly, probably butchering them, but it was fun.

But how to pick which of Ande's tips to work on when everything about my swimming needs improvement?

I could never swim the 400 IM, for example, if I did not do 100s of fly, because I need to work on endurance, and even if I sprint lots of 25s, I don't seem to get the endurance needed for the 100.

I am wanting people's cliff notes for Ande's tips but perhaps that's cheating.

And often this is what I want to do: YouTube - zoe sleeping in

In fact, this is my true character, not a swimmer or sprinter but a Boston terrier sleeper.

I do hope to get a puppy soon. You all will know it. I am sure you are extremely interested....

qbrain
May 12th, 2009, 02:10 PM
I could never swim the 400 IM, for example, if I did not do 100s of fly, because I need to work on endurance, and even if I sprint lots of 25s, I don't seem to get the endurance needed for the 100.


It is not "lots" but a million 25s. A million 25s apparently builds endurance as well as speed, youthfulness and charm.

Start at the beginning of Ande's list, those are the most important tips. I would say the first 9 tips are a baseline. If you are beyond the first 9 tips, then no one here is going to be able to pick the best tips for you, since the best tips are going to be the tips that focus on your biggest weaknesses.

Me, I am going to just try to get Ahelee to entry under my name.

hnatkin
May 12th, 2009, 02:30 PM
By the way, sprint 25s fly may be your problem. I rarely swim more than a few 50s fly in practice and still can manage a 400IM, because 100 fly in the IM should not be a sprint. You should try lengthening your stroke, long and smooth so you get more distance per stroke and fewer rotations per lap. That will get you through the 100 fly much easier than exhausting yourself with a series of sprint 25s.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
May 12th, 2009, 02:52 PM
I am just catching up on the messages on the forum and Facebook after the long weekend away.

I plan to write a little something about my experience at Nationals here.
Just know that I was more surprised than anyone to see these times in Clovis.

For now I want to respond to Isobel about Ande's Virtual Coaching and his list of tips to Swim Faster Faster.

When I first found Ande's list, I wanted to print it all out and make a book. One that I could put on my night stand and read over a few tips each night.
It was almost overwhelming to take the information in all at once. But every single bit of it seemed direly important to me to improve.
I realized that the book idea was a bad one since Ande is constantly updating this "virtual book".

Last year, the coach at my club flatly refused to coach me any longer which is a whole different story, but relevant.
I was trying to learn as a coach and then was forced to try to coach myself in the pool. Thankfully it was about that time when I found out about the resource of the USMS Forum - and Ande's Tips.

Ande's tips are presented in way that I could easily read them and then try out the technique and strategy on my own - or with friends and lanemates. I thought I knew my weaknesses, but here I found many new "opportunities" I had never considered.

The tips are clear, inspiring, and real quick answers about how to make changes and get faster.

I LAUGHED OUT LOUD over Bobinator's response to EHOCH's message listing ways to spend $$ to get faster. She said something like, I'll just buy the suit!

But my question is what does your stroke look like before you put on the suit?

So, I recommend that you do not make a short list of Ande's tips.
Start reading them.
But even better, start USING them.
Little by little you will get faster.

I feel I have only tapped into the tips - and my times have steadily dropped. I had not been able to properly rest for any meets leading up to Nationals but I was still improving.
When I did get a few extra days rest by getting out of town, off my feet and not commuting on my bike to work - my body gratefully responded in Clovis.

But I didn't know or feel it until the 1st lap of the 1st event... the 400 IM.
And I was scared going into that race - I felt my training had been completely lacking.

*I had not done a straight 100 fly since I swam it last on March 21st.

*I believe in technique perfecting 25s - hundreds, thousands and millions of them.
Always have - and over the years I have let coaches, swimmers, and Ahelee allow me to loose confidence in that philosophy.

I hope one day soon, Ande Rasmussen will be recognized for his contribution and generosity. I know he loves to do it. But it still is a beautiful service he offers to the sport. And he serves equally both coaches and swimmers.
Watching the forum friends swim in Clovis literally made my heart swell and I was so inspired by them all.

Indy will be even better.
We're all going to Swim Faster Faster!

Ahelee Sue Osborn
May 12th, 2009, 03:02 PM
By the way, sprint 25s fly may be your problem. I rarely swim more than a few 50s fly in practice and still can manage a 400IM, because 100 fly in the IM should not be a sprint. You should try lengthening your stroke, long and smooth so you get more distance per stroke and fewer rotations per lap. That will get you through the 100 fly much easier than exhausting yourself with a series of sprint 25s.

HEIDI!

This is GREAT advice!

Suzanne B-H and I came up with "float the fly" behind the blocks while waiting to swim a long course 400 IM last Summer. I cracked up ON the blocks because she was in the lane next to me - and I could hear her chanting that mantra when we mounted up for the start!!

I follow FORT's advice and wear finz a lot on fly - and to practice my SDK.
But I always take them off for the last repeat or two so that I can feel my real butterfly.
I don't mind if people think I'm cheating. I have a purpose for wearing finz and am not training for a 100 or 200 fly race.

I've used finz to help me find that elusive "relaxed fly" I keep hearing everyone talk about... but have no feeling for myself!

Of course, if anyone sees something on my fly to critique... I'll definitely listen. Its' still not all that comfortable.

ande
May 12th, 2009, 05:44 PM
hey guys,

I'm happy to help out, everyone can swim faster faster. I've had the good fortune of being at UT since 1977, I've trained for many great coaches, I've trained with and watched many great swimmers.

Here's the Swim Faster Faster Index
(which I need to update again)

There's my old Ande's Swimming Blog
Where you can follow every practice and meet between March 2005 - Sept 2008
Follow Sep 2007 - June 2008 is where I did the work that helped me break my first WR.

blog from Sept 08 - Jan 09 (http://andesswimmingblog.blogspot.com/)

Current Blog Jan 09 on (http://www.usms.org/forums/blog.php?u=3156)


There's Ask Ande

folks can also call me when I'm driving home. usually 4:00 - 5:00ish central
4:45 - 5:30 ish today

there's:
Help! My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

Training Plan

Help! My SDK is Horrible!

Help My Speed is Horrible!


I do in person swim faster faster sessions,
where I watch a swimmer swim and offer specific suggestions.

Sometimes what you think you need to do and
what you really need to do can be way different.

There's quick fixes and slow fixes.

Most people can greatly benefit from:
Mind techniques, goals, plans, reasons, action, IPS/psych, ACTING AS IF ...
Proper swimming technique, &
Getting stronger.

Everyone benefits from training harder, longer, smarter, more times a week, on a team with fast teammates & a great coach.

Some people have splitting issues.

I think it's cool that I've been able to offer folks suggestions that really helped them swim faster faster without ever meeting them or watching them swim, it's rewarding.

Many people make technique mistakes.

Some need an accountability partner.

It begins with desire and belief. I'm a big fan of ACTING AS IF you already were what you most want to be.

I hope this helps you swim faster faster, it's deeply saticefying when I achieve a hard won goal and when I help others do the same.

Let yourself be great.

I've been working on a song that says
"if I ever get to heaven I don't want to meet who I could have been." Become the best you that you can be now.

It's never easy, it will take work. The book "Outliers" suggests if you want to become great at something spend 10,000 hours working hard to improve.

Couroboros
May 12th, 2009, 06:50 PM
"if I ever get to heaven I don't want to meet who I could have been."

:applaud:

One tip I have taken to heart is the "act as if" one. It's helped my swimming, certainly. I just wish I'd remember it more frequently when I'm in the middle of a grueling set. When I act as if I am already a champion, it's like there's not even a choice but to go just a little bit faster, at the very least. It always works.

The Fortress
May 12th, 2009, 07:01 PM
I am just catching up on the messages on the forum and Facebook after the long weekend away.

I plan to write a little something about my experience at Nationals here.
Just know that I was more surprised than anyone to see these times in Clovis.

For now I want to respond to Isobel about Ande's Virtual Coaching and his list of tips to Swim Faster Faster.

When I first found Ande's list, I wanted to print it all out and make a book. One that I could put on my night stand and read over a few tips each night.
It was almost overwhelming to take the information in all at once. But every single bit of it seemed direly important to me to improve.
I realized that the book idea was a bad one since Ande is constantly updating this "virtual book".

Last year, the coach at my club flatly refused to coach me any longer which is a whole different story, but relevant.
I was trying to learn as a coach and then was forced to try to coach myself in the pool. Thankfully it was about that time when I found out about the resource of the USMS Forum - and Ande's Tips.

Ande's tips are presented in way that I could easily read them and then try out the technique and strategy on my own - or with friends and lanemates. I thought I knew my weaknesses, but here I found many new "opportunities" I had never considered.

The tips are clear, inspiring, and real quick answers about how to make changes and get faster.

I LAUGHED OUT LOUD over Bobinator's response to EHOCH's message listing ways to spend $$ to get faster. She said something like, I'll just buy the suit!

But my question is what does your stroke look like before you put on the suit?

So, I recommend that you do not make a short list of Ande's tips.
Start reading them.
But even better, start USING them.
Little by little you will get faster.

I feel I have only tapped into the tips - and my times have steadily dropped. I had not been able to properly rest for any meets leading up to Nationals but I was still improving.
When I did get a few extra days rest by getting out of town, off my feet and not commuting on my bike to work - my body gratefully responded in Clovis.

But I didn't know or feel it until the 1st lap of the 1st event... the 400 IM.
And I was scared going into that race - I felt my training had been completely lacking.

*I had not done a straight 100 fly since I swam it last on March 21st.

*I believe in technique perfecting 25s - hundreds, thousands and millions of them.
Always have - and over the years I have let coaches, swimmers, and Ahelee allow me to loose confidence in that philosophy.

I hope one day soon, Ande Rasmussen will be recognized for his contribution and generosity. I know he loves to do it. But it still is a beautiful service he offers to the sport. And he serves equally both coaches and swimmers.
Watching the forum friends swim in Clovis literally made my heart swell and I was so inspired by them all.

Indy will be even better.
We're all going to Swim Faster Faster!

Couldn't agree more!

Ande was kind enough to give me a copy of his SFF tips in Austin. He knew I was a constant reader and I was always asking questions on the SFF thread and on his blog. The tips are invaluable. I LOVE the "acting as if" tip. You have inspired me to re-read them, Ahelee. I just need to update my stash.

I love the millions of 25s approach. And I am a big advocate of practicing easy speed fly!

isobel
May 13th, 2009, 03:02 AM
I just want to second the thanks to Ande's points. And (of course) ask for advice.

OK. Ande, if you read this, since you know I have no blizzards to look forward to, and really want to improve my 400 IM, what's your take on the best way to get endurance for the fly? Capsize in the Charles River and do fly to the shore?

I can swim it slowly, but it's slow! It used to be much faster, but then I tried to bring my arms down all the way to my thighs, like on Olympic videos I was watching. Don't have the strength to do that. I think I do it best if I recover maybe at my waist.

I seem to need to swim 100s of the fly to get the endurance.

Mostly, I too want to thank you for all your tips. They are excellent, humbling, a lifetime of work and dedication to swimming, and it's an amazing gift to this forum. So thank you. Also they reflect a positive attitude. I need that. Goal setting: hard for me. Need to break it down to very small pieces. Good turns every time is one. Working on my kicking/streamline off walls is another. Very very small goals. Getting to practice regularly (it's been happening).

If I can get someone to film me doing my stupid human trick of folding the quarter into the dollar and tossing it at the Park Street T, I will, while wearing my cap and goggles for local color, narrating this in my fluent Spanish. It might be arranged.

For everyone at Nationals, :applaud:. So impressive! Very inspiring.

Ahelee Sue Osborn
May 13th, 2009, 10:15 AM
I seem to need to swim 100s of the fly to get the endurance.

Mostly, I too want to thank you for all your tips. They are excellent, humbling, a lifetime of work and dedication to swimming, and it's an amazing gift to this forum. So thank you. Also they reflect a positive attitude. I need that. Goal setting: hard for me. Need to break it down to very small pieces. Good turns every time is one. Working on my kicking/streamline off walls is another. Very very small goals. Getting to practice regularly (it's been happening).


Isobel!

Your commitment to trying to get faster is unique and will pay off.
Perhaps not so unique in this forum, but certainly in the masters swimming world. Do not be discouraged. Be an example.

HUGE are your consistent attention to perfect turns and streamlines. Do these every single time - warmup and even messing around in the pool included.

I do not agree however that you have to swim 100 flys to get ready for a 400 IM. No way.
But if you want to swim 100 flys, by all means do it. There are plenty of great 400 IMers who train this way.
(but we'll see what Ande says)

Good luck and I look forward to watching you improve.

Ahelee

ande
May 13th, 2009, 11:01 AM
Hi Isobel,

thanks for your kind comments
You really want to improve your 400 IM

you asked me:
What's the best way to get endurance for the 100 fly?

+ Train harder, longer, smarter, more times a week, on a team with fast teammates & a great coach, at ideal times in a convenient pool.

+ Train for the 500, 200 & 100 free,
swim all the strokes in practice
do fast 200's, 300's, 400's & 500's for time
mix it up in your practice
work on speed and endurance

+ Do some fly in practice but take no sloppy strokes,
mainly do 25's & 50's, I don't swim much fly in practice. It does help to perfect your fly technique.

+ Work on your SDK, but don't SDK much when you race a 400 IM

+ Work on your push offs & streamlines
Push off hard / streamline skinny / glide far

+ get a great tech suit

+ Correctly split your 400 IM,
Some swimmers go way too hard on the first 100,
Here's how I suggest swimming a 400 IM
fast turns, Push off hard / streamline skinny / glide far
fly cruise it, breathe every stroke, save your legs
back cruise it, breathe often, save legs, easy speed, need to feel good at the 200
breast work it, hard pushoffs, long glides
free 6 beat kick, breath often, bring it home fast

Hope this helps you swim your 400 IM faster faster.

tjrpatt
May 13th, 2009, 11:07 AM
How do I get faster speed in the 100 fly?

I did a 100 and 200 fly in LCM about ten days ago. My first 50 of my 200 fly was 32.9 and the first 50 of my 100 fly was a 33.3 Luckily, my 100 fly was a 1:08.67 while the first 100 of my 200 fly was 1:09.4. I know that I have to do more sprint work at practice more regularly but is there anything else that I can be doing so I am not in "200 fly mode" when I am swimming the 100 fly.

ande
May 13th, 2009, 11:23 AM
Lift weights / Get stronger

Improve your SDK speed & speed endurance
do fast SDKs of various distances for time with plenty of rest

Improve your fly RAW SPEED
swim fast 25 & 50 fly's in practice for time

Improve your fly easy speed

fix any technique mistakes if you're making some

rest

get a tech suit


How do I get faster speed in the 100 fly?

I did a 100 and 200 fly in LCM about ten days ago. My first 50 of my 200 fly was 32.9 and the first 50 of my 100 fly was a 33.3 Luckily, my 100 fly was a 1:08.67 while the first 100 of my 200 fly was 1:09.4. I know that I have to do more sprint work at practice more regularly but is there anything else that I can be doing so I am not in "200 fly mode" when I am swimming the 100 fly.