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CreamPuff
July 3rd, 2009, 12:53 PM
So I've got a taper meet coming up and it happens to be a USA-S SR State Meet. I'm doing this USA-S meet as there was only 1 one day USMS meet offered in GA this year that was LCM.

This meet is VERY fast at least for me.
The kids will be tapered and I expect them to drop tons of time. For me personally, I'm much more experienced in swimming well *tired* throughout the season and I never know what kind of effect a taper will have on me. So what I'm saying is that I don't know if I'll drop much time after a taper or not.

Should I enter my best times or should I fudge a little or even really sandbag? A friend of mine reminded me that I usually swim in full heats of men during masters mixed meets and it is true that the top SR girls will not be any faster than these men I've raced in the past. My concern was getting killed in my heat - again, something I'm used to with the masters men. If I enter my best time of 1:05.5 in the 100 fly for example, that's pretty quick. I will be with girls who can hit 1:02s and 1:03s. . .

I'm leaning towards just going for it and if I can't handle the pressure then at least I know I tried my best.

As always, any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

JimRude
July 3rd, 2009, 01:00 PM
Enter as fast as you expect to swim. This may be slower than your best time, close to your best time, or even much faster than your best time.

At least, that's what I (would) do...:2cents:

aquageek
July 3rd, 2009, 01:01 PM
Go for it, beat down the kiddies. They will be much more nervous with you beside them than you will be. The pressure of having to beat "the old lady" (no offense intended) will be overwhelming. All the parents will tell them, "don't let that woman beat you."

I would say if you get pushed by people beside you, enter your best times. If not, put a time that maximizes your rest, the USMS way.

tjrpatt
July 3rd, 2009, 01:02 PM
Go for it. If I am correct, you did that time unrested or something. So, you could be on par with the girls when you taper for this meet.

CreamPuff
July 3rd, 2009, 01:06 PM
Oh yeah, and I don't want to put down the sandbaggers by the way. I think you can still go for it if you have a need to sandbag. I've seen world record holders enter NT's or very slow times and perform very well. I love racing fast people but I know firsthand how much these kids train (all those doubles that I don't do for starters). . . and that is a scary thought.

Jim, I never know how fast or slow I'll swim. I can't tell you how many times I can look at the clock after a race and be surprised in a good and in a bad way! :D

Bill, fortunately, the events are nicely spread out for me!

qbrain
July 3rd, 2009, 02:07 PM
This meet doesn't have a requirement to enter with your fastest current valid SWIMS time? I think that is common here, but maybe it is enforced by some unspoken threat of punishment only.

I don't think sandbagging is necessary. You are tapering just like all the other girls who look like they are 16, and it is a dice roll for all of you how well that taper will work. You can't scientifically sandbag yourself into a heat that will optimally push you, so you might as well enter with real times.

Good luck.

CreamPuff
July 3rd, 2009, 02:13 PM
This meet doesn't have a requirement to enter with your fastest current valid SWIMS time? I think that is common here, but maybe it is enforced by some unspoken threat of punishment only.

I don't think sandbagging is necessary. You are tapering just like all the other girls who look like they are 16, and it is a dice roll for all of you how well that taper will work. You can't scientifically sandbag yourself into a heat that will optimally push you, so you might as well enter with real times.

Good luck.

Thank you qbrain! Yes, you must have the GA SR State cut to enter (which I have for the events that I'll be swimming.) But my team allows us to enter our own seed times.

rtodd
July 3rd, 2009, 02:56 PM
The only need to sandbag is to buy recovery for another event. Otherwise just go with entering fast time and let them stare at the Psych sheet in amazement. Get inside their heads!

frankiej
July 3rd, 2009, 05:26 PM
Ok, can someone fill me in on the lingo?

Taper? Sandbag?

pwolf66
July 3rd, 2009, 06:38 PM
Ok, can someone fill me in on the lingo?

Taper? Sandbag?


Taper: To reduce workout volume in preparation for an major competition or event. Usually consists of gradually reducing training volume over a period of 2 weeks prior to start of competition or event. About a 10-15% reduction in volume each session with an increased focus on faster repeats on longer rest durations.

Sandbag: to _deliberately_ enter a much (10% or more) slower seed time to gain a real or perceived competitive advantage. Specifically to acheive 'clear' water by leading the heat. Has been known to be used to refer to individuals who choose to enter back to back events in a meet but feel that it's 'OK' to enter a entry time of 'NT' for the first event in order to gain as much rest as possible. You know who you are :angel:

aquageek
July 3rd, 2009, 06:52 PM
Sandbag is what wookie does when the outhouse floods cause he built it uphill from his single-wide. Taper is what he does when his coveralls get a rip - as in "I gotta tape 'er up, my arse is showing."

thewookiee
July 3rd, 2009, 07:20 PM
Sandbag is what wookie does when the outhouse floods cause he built it uphill from his single-wide. Taper is what he does when his coveralls get a rip - as in "I gotta tape 'er up, my arse is showing."

@geek...hahahahahahahaha...stop...you are making me laugh so hard my stitches are coming out. that's what i get for tellin ya your sister she looks like you, only with more facial hair.

Glider
July 3rd, 2009, 07:38 PM
Fudge a little. I's what I did at Sr. State back in December. These kids put in their personal best times. But they are still improving at a tremendous rate year-over-year.

I put in my best "in-season" time as I usually do in masters meets, about one to two seconds per 100 slower than my best.

At the end of the day, the kids were improving their best times a ton year-over-year while I was improving a little.

But since I used my best in-season time for seeding and they used their PBs, we improved our seed times at a similar rate.

This made for great racing in my heats, which was what I was after.

Lump
July 3rd, 2009, 10:05 PM
What are you scared of? Looking bad?:afraid:

Enter your best time and let the chips fall. Personally I'd want to be in a heat that is AT LEAST my best time (Masters time that is). I'd prefer to be in a fast heat to push me. 100 Fly doesn't exactly call for a strategy...sprint down, sprint back. If you are entering a USS meet with age groupers I should think you already made the decision to "go for it". Don't wuss out now.

thewookiee
July 4th, 2009, 12:00 AM
Don't wuss out now.



CreamPuff,

What Lump is tryin to say... "Don't be a Geek. Man-up, enter your fastest time and race"

Lump
July 4th, 2009, 12:34 AM
CreamPuff,

What Lump is tryin to say... "Don't be a Geek. Man-up, enter your fastest time and race"

Pretty much.

She knows me and my background, so she probably knows why I'm saying this.

Leonard Jansen
July 4th, 2009, 08:11 AM
"I always tell the truth. That way I can never be blackmailed, either physically or emotionally." - Harlan Ellison

Enter the time you think you will do. That way, you can only be accused of bad, but honest, judgement.

- LBJ

mermaid
July 4th, 2009, 08:21 AM
I think there are 2 levels of sandbagging:

the first is as Wolfie suggested

the second was what Jimby was calling "Hiddlebitteling" (sp?) = a more severe case of sandbagging

CreamPuff
July 4th, 2009, 10:04 AM
Pretty much.

She knows me and my background, so she probably knows why I'm saying this.

Definitely. Would not expect a different answer from an Alex B. pupil!

So what am I afraid of? My swimming career in a nutshell is your standard sad tale. Got Junior National cuts (pretty easily - I never liked to train as a kid) right at 15 years old in 100 fly. I had no idea what one was supposed to do after that (had no other goals). At that point in time, JR's were about as high as anyone went on the small team I swam for. Went to JR's, was surrounded by fantastically trained athletes from your team no less, and bombed (didn't even make the cut at the meet.) Was pretty much done with the sport from then on until age 30. Now I'm putting myself into a heat in which the swimmers are all faster than my best time as a kid - exciting and terrifying at the same time. But I gotta agree. What on earth do I have to lose? Perhaps I can redeem myself 21 years later.

jim thornton
July 4th, 2009, 10:15 AM
It is too bad that Jimmy Stewart has passed away, because I think he would have been a fantastic choice for the role of CreamPuff in the Frank Capra movie, "From the Soggy Ashes: The Kristina Ulveling Story."

As a long time Ulvelingologist, I must say that this thread is a treasure trove of psychiatric insight into the underpinnings of what some in the K.U. literature have termed "drive" while others prefer to call traditional "obsessionality."

Regardless of terminology, we all wish you luck in your attempts to redo the past, with a more emotionally emancipating conclusion.

As far as sandbagging goes, as long as you don't Hiddlebiddle your times, I think you will be safe from reproach. However, as your recent race against Eva Braun showed, perhaps your greatest strength as a swimmer is your indominability. I would recommend the first option in your poll, then let your inner Terminator do what it does best: crush your enemies, see them lying before you, and hearing der lamentations of dere vomen.

CreamPuff
July 4th, 2009, 12:52 PM
Jim! My husband is on to our online relationship. In reading your latest post below, he asked me what I was giggling at this AM. I let him know that, "It's that Jim Thornton guy again." :rofl: But don't you worry, hubby is an artist/ crazy diretor and not a body builder.

I will not hiddlebiddle. What a term. Today's he$$ fly practice almost made me cry. Not very terminator-like.

stillwater
July 4th, 2009, 01:39 PM
Enter a time that you will come close to swimming. If you don't disrupt other swimmers in your heat no one should have a beef.

The problems are those scallaywags that enter a much slower time to gain an advantage.

As said in court, "Swim your time, and you'll be fine." Or something like that.

That Guy
July 4th, 2009, 03:06 PM
Jim! My husband is on to our online relationship. In reading your latest post below, he asked me what I was giggling at this AM. I let him know that, "It's that Jim Thornton guy again." :rofl: But don't you worry, hubby is an artist/ crazy diretor and not a body builder.

I will not hiddlebiddle. What a term. Today's he$$ fly practice almost made me cry. Not very terminator-like.

This new term caused me to do some research in the results database. There is some pretty funny stuff in there.

CreamPuff
July 4th, 2009, 03:11 PM
So my husband just said, "Hiddlebiddle? Sounds like something Jim Thornton made up." Along with, "You don't sandbag your times ever. You enter your best and then go them or beat them." Problem solved!

jim thornton
July 4th, 2009, 04:32 PM
Hiddlebiddle is the possibly misspelled last name of a Zonesman whose sandbagging ways were so unbelievably egregious that the term has come, in its own way, to be as emblematic of the sandbagging phenomenon as the Earl of Sandwich's favorite lunchtime snack has become for bread-enveloped foodstuffs.

I signed up for the 100 freestyle at CZ SCY championships last spring with my fastest time to date of the year: a 53.35. I noted that I was seeded first in my heat, next to a Mr. Hiddlebiddle, who had signed up with a 53.8 or possibly even a low 54. Curious about the speed of Mr. Hiddlebiddle, I looked up his other entries and saw that he had entered a 23.05 in the 50 fly, and a 1:30 in the 100 I.M.

It occurred to me that the poor man must have a seizure disorder, perhaps some odd variant on Sydenham's Chorea, AKA, St. Vitus's Dance, an offshoot of the Jumping Frenchmen of Maine Syndrome, one that caused him to alternate incredibly fast swims with incredibly slow swims.

But as I was to learn in that meet, as he kicked pints of water down my gullet within the first 12 yards of the race, as he was swimming en route to his 47 or 48 finish, he was not neurologically impaired, at least not in the sense I had imagined (palsies, narcolepsies, and whatnot.)

Rather, he was merely Hiddlebiddling.

The phenomenon is hardly new, but a new and memorable term for it was born right then and there, in the midst of my own choking, sputtering, humiliating, misery.

Note: the lapped septuagenarians in the 100 IM were even more surprised than I was.

Kristina, your husband is, in a way, correct: the verb "to Hiddlebiddle" is one that I am associated with. But I did not coin the term per se, only identified and extended its usage from noun to verb, much as William Shakespeare is credited with taking the noun "ruin" (which in his day only meant crumbling pillars and other such architectural relics) and used it metaphorically, and for the first time, as a way to describe what happens when a person is subjected to horrible misadventures and reversals of fortune, i.e., "ruined."

If you have ever been gagged by water kicked down your gullet in the course of being Hiddlebiddled, you will, of course, recognize both these terms, the Thorntonic and the Shakespearic.

I am considering adding yet another such extended use noun-to-verb term to the swimmer's lexicon: i.e., to Ulveling someone. For those of you who may have missed my recent vlog, "Is CreamPuff Using Me?", you can watch a very speedy woman swimmer named Eva Braun getting severely Ulvelinged by clicking here: http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?b=4176

It's enough to make poor Eva consider Hiddlebiddling at her next meet.

Note: thanks to Mermaid for mentioning the term "hiddlebiddling" earlier in the thread and, like a medieval monk salvaging knowledge in his palimpsest for posterity, keeping the word from slipping away entirely from the human knowledge base. I am sure that Mr. Hiddlebiddle is delighted you were able to keep this from happening!

SwimRobin
July 5th, 2009, 09:20 AM
That was a fun race to watch, thank you for posting the link Jim. You need to enter your fastest times Creampuff. Swimming with those young girls will push you to swim even faster times.