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ddl
July 7th, 2009, 01:24 AM
How often do you swim long distance non-stop, say 1500m or more? How often is good? I try to plan for myself :)

(Also, when doing that, do you swim only freestyle or sometimes change to different strokes?)

Maui Mike
July 7th, 2009, 01:52 AM
I may have gone further a time or two by going crooked in a one mile ocean swim, but it was never my intent.

But today, I swam 1200 yards non-stop, my pool record for at least the last ten years.

ViveBene
July 7th, 2009, 06:20 AM
How often do you swim long distance non-stop, say 1500m or more? How often is good? I try to plan for myself :)

(Also, when doing that, do you swim only freestyle or sometimes change to different strokes?)

Your question is about pool swimming or swimming?:fish2:

Lui
July 7th, 2009, 06:31 AM
I think the longest distance I swim is 1000 yards if I happen to do a long distance workout. I never swim longer non-stop distances than that.....so my answer is never.

Rykno
July 7th, 2009, 06:31 AM
I voted rarely since it's not something I do in the pool or even in the lake for training.

but I have swum 3x10,000yds once each year of college swimming (around 2:12-2:20 swim time) and two years ago I swam 6350m in 90 minutes.

but in my weekly training I don't swim much more than 400's and it's usually not more than 6-10 x 200 sets.

two weeks ago I swam 50km in 7 days, but it was with twoadays in a lake, and we usaully stopped ever 1000m or so to regroup and then swim another 1000m or so.

thewookiee
July 7th, 2009, 07:31 AM
How often do you swim long distance non-stop, say 1500m or more? How often is good? I try to plan for myself :)

(Also, when doing that, do you swim only freestyle or sometimes change to different strokes?)

If I did a 1500 meter straight swim, I would have my head examined to see where my brain disappeared too. I love do repeat 300's and 400's but do straight 1500's, a person has to be really bored and not able to create more fun practices.

chaos
July 7th, 2009, 08:40 AM
but do straight 1500's, a person has to be really bored and not able to create more fun practices.

the inverse is: a person has to be a really stuck not to be able to create a fun 1500
try a 1500 fartlek 25 cruise, 25 fast, 25 cruise, 50 fast, 25 cruise, 75 fast
or
alternate 100fr /100 stroke
or
build by 500 or 100
or
hold lowest possible stroke count
or

Bobinator
July 7th, 2009, 08:42 AM
I used to do an hour swim once per week. I got over that.

I'm going to do a few 1,500's before nats mostly since I have never raced in a long course pool. I just want to get used to the flow of the race.
I really like to swim an hour or more all free without stopping; it can almost be trance-like. The problem is that it doesn't help you improve your speed, stroke, or conditioning much. I'd call it more a mind exercise. :2cents:

Lui
July 7th, 2009, 09:05 AM
If I did a 1500 meter straight swim, I would have my head examined to see where my brain disappeared too.

Most people I see at my pool just swim back and forth at the same pace for a certain period of time. They jump in, don't warm up, swim back and forth and leave. How boring is that:yawn:

Ripple
July 7th, 2009, 09:08 AM
I've laddered up to 2000 while training for Swimtrek tours. I probably didn't need to, the guides stop you every 30 minutes for hot drinks on the longer swims.
It's easier in a 50m pool, but as Chaos said, there are ways to make it interesting.

RuffWater
July 7th, 2009, 09:31 AM
Rarely.

thewookiee
July 7th, 2009, 09:36 AM
the inverse is: a person has to be a really stuck not to be able to create a fun 1500
try a 1500 fartlek 25 cruise, 25 fast, 25 cruise, 50 fast, 25 cruise, 75 fast
or
alternate 100fr /100 stroke
or
build by 500 or 100
or
hold lowest possible stroke count
or

There is no such thing as a fun, straight 1500. I find absolutely no benefit or pleasure in being able to swim a 1500 or longer distance straight or being able to say that I can.

I will stick to 200 and sometimes 400's.

srcoyote
July 7th, 2009, 09:45 AM
Right now I do a 3K, 4K, or 5K non-stop about 2-3 times per week (all freestyle) which is pretty funny considering that when I swam age group, I moaned at anything over 200.

I am learning that it is much easier to do those non-stoppers in LC pools. 25 yards is hardly enough to get any momentum going before I have to stop and turn. This is also funny because in my youth I HATED LC season.

Make it an outdoor LC pool or a lake, and my only limit is the time I have available to swim.

On the other days, I mix up strokes with shorter distances - usually nothing over a 500.

chaos
July 7th, 2009, 09:58 AM
There is no such thing as a fun, straight 1500. I find absolutely no benefit or pleasure in being able to swim a 1500 or longer distance straight or being able to say that I can.

I will stick to 200 and sometimes 400's.

http://www.addtreatmentcenters.com/

Lump
July 7th, 2009, 10:00 AM
I did 3 x 1500 a few weeks ago. IIRC, it was like one pull, one swim with snorkel, one swim.

JimRude
July 7th, 2009, 10:03 AM
Since I started swimming again a few years ago, never.

thewookiee
July 7th, 2009, 10:04 AM
http://www.addtreatmentcenters.com/

Funny. While I do respect those that do like to swim distance, I find it to be extremely boring. So, you keep doing your 1500's plus and I will keep thinking it is really freakin borin to do.

knelson
July 7th, 2009, 11:55 AM
I said every few weeks, but that's probably an exaggeration. Let's see, last summer I swam two open water swims of 5K and also the pool 5K, so that's three. I swam the 1650 free at Clovis so that's four. It's possible I swam over 1500 meters in training once or twice, but I don't recall doing it. At the absolute most I probably swam over 1500 meters without stopping a total of six times in the last year.

bamueller
July 7th, 2009, 12:48 PM
Last week I swam a 3100 for time in a pool (1.75 miles) because of a race I want to do. About once a month I do a 2000 for time, just to get used to the distance and boredom, and it helps me target my 100 yard pace.

I think it is good to just swim on a regular basis for distance, once a month or so. I usually do it on a day off, where I either work on drills/technique, kicking, or stretching. The longer distances are at an easier pace, and I try and work on a number of things.

I read in an article that if you want to lose fat, to increase your workout distance (the article was related to running). I figure it can apply to swimming as well.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-242-304--10586-0,00.html

mctrusty
July 7th, 2009, 12:53 PM
I said once every few months. Usually more often during OW season and then hardly ever during the rest of the year.

ddl
July 7th, 2009, 01:01 PM
Your question is about pool swimming or swimming?:fish2:

Good question, why not vote swimming, and tell us details if it makes difference either way? I would love to know both.:)


Most people I see at my pool just swim back and forth at the same pace for a certain period of time. They jump in, don't warm up, swim back and forth and leave. How boring is that:yawn:

That's also what I observed. The point is that many of them appear not to have good swimming forms, and it seems to take them 30-40 strokes across 25m.


The longer distances are at an easier pace, and I try and work on a number of things.

Swimming-related or not? ;)


I'm surprised to know most of you don't do nonstop long distance often. (But didn't many say they had various ways to make it not boring, like MP3?) Does that mean you don't have do practice that in the pool in order to swim long distance in open water, since I believe some of you do OW? Just the 400m, 800m practice can help you swim far in OW?

chaos
July 7th, 2009, 01:30 PM
during OW season i will swim a minimum of two miles non-stop at least 3 times per week. 1 day per week, i will swim a between 4 and 6 miles with brief interuptions to feed. (not including race day). in the winter, a standard warm-up for me is at least 1000 yards.

Ken Classen
July 7th, 2009, 02:59 PM
I raced a 1500 in early June. Once a week for the four weeks prior to the race, I warmed up and then swam a 1500 straight for time. I did this to get my body and my mind used to the distance. Now in Open Water season I go that distance and more all the time but in lakes not pools, somehow for me anyway, it's mentally easier to go distance in openwater.

mctrusty
July 7th, 2009, 03:24 PM
I raced a 1500 in early June. Once a week for the four weeks prior to the race, I warmed up and then swam a 1500 straight for time. I did this to get my body and my mind used to the distance. Now in Open Water season I go that distance and more all the time but in lakes not pools, somehow for me anyway, it's mentally easier to go distance in openwater.

Are you doing the Aquaman tonight?

Midas
July 7th, 2009, 05:42 PM
My team does quite a few 20 and 30 minute swims in December-January in preparation for the hour swim. Many of those are close to or in excess of 1500 meters. We don't train that way otherwise during the year. It's not fun, but we work hard at maintaining our intended hour swim pace, and that can help pass the time.

RobbieD
July 7th, 2009, 08:53 PM
I've been doing more of this recently. I work out with a group 2x a week (this is a fairly new development, I had been training by myself for the last year) and then the other swims I do during the week are solo. I've started to use these solo swims to do big blocks of distance with the thought that I need the endurance for some open water swims I want to do. To keep from being bored out of my skull I do have a waterproof mp3 player that I am pretty happy with so far. My big problem is keeping track of my distance. I ordered one of those goofy looking finger counter things to try out so I can know just how far I am really going. If I go much further with all the gadgetry I'm going to end up looking mildly bionic... :cool:

Allen Stark
July 7th, 2009, 11:10 PM
Almost never.My longest race is 200 M(except when I entered the 400 IM during what was clearly a psychotic episode) and I think race pace work is important so I see little reason to swim over 200M.Once or twice a year I'll swim a 1600 IM just for something different early in the season.Some times I'll do it as swim,pull,kick,swim each stroke.

jim thornton
July 8th, 2009, 05:35 PM
I usually try to get to our thrice weekly one-hour practices a half hour early and do a pre-warmup. This involves swimming continuously the whole time till real warm up starts.

The typical continuous swim phase for me is a 600 or so with open turns, followed by the rest of it with flips, gradually increasing my speed from incredibly slow to fairly slow, with frequent Fartlekking maneuvers thrown in, which take me back to incredibly slow.

This usually results in around 1800 plus or minus yards of continuous pre-warmup, and then I am ready to begin the real warmup, which is often another 500-1000 of slightly quicker swimming.

Chicken of the Sea
July 8th, 2009, 06:16 PM
I guess I do it quite often. Sometimes I've got a song in my head, and sometimes nothing, like meditation. On rare occasions there'll be some eye candy to view in the other lanes.

I complained once to my kids that I was bored of swimming alone and then 8 year old said "only the boring can be bored".

Leonard Jansen
July 9th, 2009, 07:55 AM
Quite often. I enjoy longer swims much more than interval training. I usually do math problems or computer algorithms in my head during the first part, while I'm fresh, and then later my mind ranges all over the place.

e.g. last Saturday: 6200 yards in 1:30 - steady pace.
Sunday: 1 hour (4100 yards) with 100 yard "sprints" thrown in every 5 minutes.
Monday: easy 2000 yards for recovery. Work technique.
Tuesday: Harder hour (~4200 yards)
Wednesday: Intervals with one set that was a continuous 2000 done as 4x{400 hard, 100 easy}
Thursday: easy 2000 yards recovery, work technique.

Favorite workout is a steady 2 hours to gauge my fitness.

-LBJ

chaos
July 9th, 2009, 08:30 AM
[QUOTE=Chicken of the Sea;185821] Sometimes I've got a song in my head QUOTE]

as long as its not "hey jude" or "the edmund fitzgerald"

CreamPuff
July 9th, 2009, 09:57 AM
Interesting question. . .

Last year (LCM) when I was training for a 25K I did up to 1500 meter repeats once or twice a week for a few months. And on occasion I did some straight swims (greater than 1500) if I couldn't make the interval. . .
The fear of dying on the 25K OW competition (and coming in DFL) gave me motivation to swim in the distance lane.

This year I came to my senses and I can't say I've done more than 1500 meters straight this season. The good news is that now, everything seems like a sprint!

ddl
July 9th, 2009, 10:08 AM
From the replies here it seems that in order to swim OW long distance, most of you don't really practice long distance in the pool? Just practice the 400m or 800m and then confident enough to go straight to 5km or 10km OW? Very curious to know!

chaos
July 9th, 2009, 10:18 AM
From the replies here it seems that in order to swim OW long distance, most of you don't really practice long distance in the pool? Just practice the 400m or 800m and then confident enough to go straight to 5km or 10km OW? Very curious to know!

i think you would find that most of the people that responded wouldn't claim to train for a 5k or 10k or more... though they might participate in said events.

Chicken of the Sea
July 9th, 2009, 11:36 AM
Chaos,

I blogged earlier in the year about the worst songs to have running through your head on a long swim.

My absolute worst was "We're all alone" by Boz Scaggs (for a 10k and I take more than 3 hours to swim that!!!)

At MIMS it was 100 Years by Five for Fighting. That's pretty bad so it was probably merciful that I got pulled

Redbird Alum
July 9th, 2009, 03:29 PM
I voted never... not since I had an outdoor meet in my youth. My coach thought the 1500M would be a great race for me, as I had a "loping" stroke at the time.

Unfortunately, the kid next to me swam spot on with me all the way through, so we nearly killed each other trying to inch ahead here, or at the next turn, or... At the end, we sprinted (as much as was left anyway) the last 50M, all the way to the wall. We ended up friends for a long time after that meet, and to this day, I will never, ever, do THAT again!

My longest practice length is repeating 500's.

ddl
July 9th, 2009, 06:07 PM
i think you would find that most of the people that responded wouldn't claim to train for a 5k or 10k or more... though they might participate in said events.

And when they do participate, they probably do complete it, regardless speed...?


Unfortunately, the kid next to me swam spot on with me all the way through, so we nearly killed each other trying to inch ahead here, or at the next turn, or... At the end, we sprinted (as much as was left anyway) the last 50M, all the way to the wall. We ended up friends for a long time after that meet, and to this day, I will never, ever, do THAT again!

That's a nice story! I may be able to make friend with one who ties with me for being the slowest :D

SolarEnergy
July 16th, 2009, 10:55 AM
currently, it's my cycling season. But I am still swimming in preparation for next autumn when my regiment will be mostly made of swimming.

In preparation for this, my target for the end of the summer is 3x1000 Butterfly off 20min (for what it's worth). That will leave me no more than 15-30sec between each rep (emptying the goggles , replacing bathing cap which tend to get off when swimming long bf sets).

So in reality, this may be considered as a 3000 bf long steady swim test.

My current regiment is limited to 5x200 bf slow pace. No warm up no warm down. 1kilo and go home.

That answers one of your (important too me) question, and that is since I want to greatly improve fuel efficiency at butterfly, I do base mileage at this stroke.

As for link between LSD and openwater preparation for a 25k, my info may be outdated. I used to be involved at a fairly high level of competition back in the '90s (best result being a 2nd place on a 22mile world cup event). Back then, sets of 10k or more were done on a regular basis, any occasion to swim a full 25k was also prioritized (talking about fund raising marathons, B-races etc).

2fish&1whale
July 17th, 2009, 01:13 PM
I went through a phase were I just wanted to get through my yards and get out of the pool-and swimming 1500-2000 at a time got me done faster. But I found that my technique went to utter cr.. after about 1000, so I switched to shorter sets with more focus on form.
It was also really boring!Sets of 500-1000 allow me to switch from kick to stroke work more frequently and I can include sprints without loosing form.
The thing that baffles me is that I used to swim only breaststroke and since I added back stroke a year ago I have not been able to complete a 2000 breast.

orca1946
July 17th, 2009, 01:24 PM
To Lump - I'm very impressed with 3 x 1500 set !!:applaud:

srcoyote
July 17th, 2009, 02:47 PM
From the replies here it seems that in order to swim OW long distance, most of you don't really practice long distance in the pool? Just practice the 400m or 800m and then confident enough to go straight to 5km or 10km OW? Very curious to know!

Before my first 3K and 5K OWS, I did work in full swims of those lengths in practice prior, though I think much of the need for that was mental. I still practice at those lengths. In high school I was allergic to anything over 200 yards. Who'd a thunk that I now rarely swim anything less than a 500 in practice sets.

isobel
July 18th, 2009, 05:33 PM
So if I'm thinking of doing the postal 10K, no need to do any extra training for that kind of distance (in a long course pool)?

Not that I have time; long course changes back in 2 weeks. I've been going to practice 4xweek and we do tons of 400s, 500s, 600s, plus sprints.

I had thought I might need to add in some longer practices (maybe 5000 or 6000 meters) once a week (not solid swims, but regular interval-based practices) to get used to increased time of swimming, but, no time.

Why am I thinking of doing the postal 10K? Why does USMS have it as a formal event? Will it make me stronger?

(If I do it, I'm just curious about how long it will take me, and I'd like to see if I can do all the postal events this year, for some reason.)

But if these distance swims are, essentially, meaningless (so I am gleaning from this discussion), why does USMS have official long pool swims like these? For money?

chaos
July 19th, 2009, 12:22 AM
But if these distance swims are, essentially, meaningless (so I am gleaning from this discussion), why does USMS have official long pool swims like these? For money?

who said they are meaningless?

isobel
July 20th, 2009, 04:59 PM
I used to do an hour swim once per week. I got over that.

I'm going to do a few 1,500's before nats mostly since I have never raced in a long course pool. I just want to get used to the flow of the race.
I really like to swim an hour or more all free without stopping; it can almost be trance-like. The problem is that it doesn't help you improve your speed, stroke, or conditioning much. I'd call it more a mind exercise. :2cents:

This posting sounds like doing these long distances doesn't do much for "speed, stroke, or conditioning."


My team does quite a few 20 and 30 minute swims in December-January in preparation for the hour swim. Many of those are close to or in excess of 1500 meters. We don't train that way otherwise during the year. It's not fun, but we work hard at maintaining our intended hour swim pace, and that can help pass the time.

This posting sounds like distance swimming is not a way of training except for the one-hour swim.


I went through a phase were I just wanted to get through my yards and get out of the pool-and swimming 1500-2000 at a time got me done faster. But I found that my technique went to utter cr.. after about 1000, so I switched to shorter sets with more focus on form.
It was also really boring!Sets of 500-1000 allow me to switch from kick to stroke work more frequently and I can include sprints without loosing form.
The thing that baffles me is that I used to swim only breaststroke and since I added back stroke a year ago I have not been able to complete a 2000 breast.

This posting seems to say that distance swimming causes your stroke to fall apart.

Thus I am wondering why there are these humongous 10K postal swims in USMS?

It's not meaningless to me, because I am curious about how it will feel during and after, and how long it will take me.

But mostly it seems like doing megadistance, based on this thread, doesn't help with much for the regular pool race events.

I may be reading into these posts to suit my own ambivalence about committing to a 10K pool swim, just for the experience of it.

So are these longer postal swims mostly done by triathletes who are members of USMS and like to do distance as well as less distance?

srcoyote
July 20th, 2009, 08:17 PM
But mostly it seems like doing megadistance, based on this thread, doesn't help with much for the regular pool race events.

You're right on this point, but then personally at this time in my life, I don't care to train for regular pool race events. I've found distance swimming a way to challenge myself, to create a sort of meditative experience, to enjoy the scenery, and to soak up nature.

I would also say that those who believe it causes one's stroke to fall apart or that it doesn't do much for conditioning are also misguided. My stroke gets better and better the more I challenge myself with distance. I've lost 15 pounds, and I'm in far better shape than I ever was as a pool racer. I still may get in the postal 10K this summer and hope to complete a 10K open water swim next spring.

It's all a matter of personal choice. I understand the folks who prefer only to train for meets. I also understand the folks who swim masters primarily as a social outlet. These are just not my paths.

jim thornton
July 21st, 2009, 05:51 PM
Chaos,

I blogged earlier in the year about the worst songs to have running through your head on a long swim.

My absolute worst was "We're all alone" by Boz Scaggs (for a 10k and I take more than 3 hours to swim that!!!)

At MIMS it was 100 Years by Five for Fighting. That's pretty bad so it was probably merciful that I got pulled


A friend recently got a song stuck in his head--the Blue Danube Waltz. I thought he meant it kind of jokingly, like it was a pleasant enough experience that would come and go, but he said it was really, truly, ineradicably stuck there.

It stayed stuck for weeks. He went to a psychiatrist yesterday, who immediately diagnosed OCD (despite my friend, who is in his 50s, not having any prior symptoms). He perscribed Abilify, which is a newish drug that I thought was mainly from bipolar.

Anyhow, the guy is supposed to take this for a month, and the doctor predicted it will work well. His gain, Strauss's loss.

Have any of our psychiatrically trained (or afflicted) members had experience with Abilify for OCD?

By the way, I really do have a friend with the condition described above. Not a "friend". However, I would like to think that should such a song-stuck-in-head-for-weeks phenomenon, or something akin to it, happen to me, there might be a remedy.

nhc
July 21st, 2009, 06:33 PM
Was the diagnosis solely based on the song stucking in his mind? I would think it requires other symptoms to warrant such a diagnosis. I'm sure many composers (e.g. Strauss himself!) and other musicians would have a music stuck in their mind for a long period. I had a song stuck in my mind for many days, too, simply because someone's cell phone, whom I called several times, had that same song answering the phone each time.:cool:

knelson
July 21st, 2009, 06:40 PM
Thus I am wondering why there are these humongous 10K postal swims in USMS?

Because some people find them challenging and enjoy doing them.


It's not meaningless to me, because I am curious about how it will feel during and after, and how long it will take me.

Exactly.


But mostly it seems like doing megadistance, based on this thread, doesn't help with much for the regular pool race events.

Quite possibly true, but many aren't constrained to just doing 'regular pool' events. Lots of USMS members also do long distance channel swims, long open water races and other long distance swims where this type of training would definitely be effective.

jim thornton
July 21st, 2009, 10:14 PM
Was the diagnosis solely based on the song stucking in his mind? I would think it requires other symptoms to warrant such a diagnosis. I'm sure many composers (e.g. Strauss himself!) and other musicians would have a music stuck in their mind for a long period. I had a song stuck in my mind for many days, too, simply because someone's cell phone, whom I called several times, had that same song answering the phone each time.:cool:

I guess it was stuck in his mind for a couple weeks. And it was bothering him. But I agree--it seems a pretty quick dispensing of a Rx, and when i looked on line regarding Abilify, it doesn't seem that its use in OCD is all that well tested or regarded at this point.

bamueller
July 22nd, 2009, 02:28 PM
I guess it was stuck in his mind for a couple weeks. And it was bothering him. But I agree--it seems a pretty quick dispensing of a Rx, and when i looked on line regarding Abilify, it doesn't seem that its use in OCD is all that well tested or regarded at this point.

I think I would be hesitant to take Rx because I have a horrible song stuck in my head. Then again, I guess it depends on how horrible the song is. Can he/she not get a better song stuck in their head?

Sometimes I hear getting kicked in the head by a mule works.

isobel
July 26th, 2009, 12:47 PM
OK, so I did the 5K postal and I was surprised at how much more it hurt than the one-hour swim, and how much I slowed down after 3000 meters.

In particular, the last 1000 meters took me almost 20 minutes which, um, was not my goal! My arms were in much tightness/achy pain, so I did a fair amount of fingertip drag during those last 100s to see if I could loosen them up.

I did make some strategic errors by deciding on doing intervals rather than swimming straight through. Thus at the beginning I was resting quite a bit, and at the end I was dying trying to make my intervals, though the interval approach made the 5K go by like a breeze.

Still, I swam nearly 4000 yards in the one-hour swim; and it took me 1.5 hours to do 5K. Ouch!

I still want to do the 10K, again, to see how it feels, but with a little more training before I do it, and also I will eat somewhere in the middle of it, bagels or something, for fuel.

And Knelson (I think) is right: I am doing these long swims because I am curious about the experience of them, plus I want to see if I can do all the postal swims this year, just as a personal challenge.

So the 5K surpised me with its painfulness, especially the last 1000 meters.

It wasn't awful to do. I'm glad I did it, and my coach (counting for me) said I inspired him to start swimming more and maybe do it with me next year.

texas_bob
July 26th, 2009, 02:01 PM
At least once a week I swim between 4-6K in an open water setting (Lake Travis, LWC, or Barton Springs). Depends on what race is upcoming. Once in a while I will try to swim 2K in the pool but can't do it often, to mind numbing.