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chaos
July 10th, 2009, 10:37 AM
is it possible for an open water race director to classify "tech suits" as a separate division from traditional swim wear and still receive a USMS sanction?

of the three scenarios below, which are possible?

A) div 1: english channel attire
div 2: tech suits
div 3: wet suits

or

B) div 1: tech suits
div 2: wet suits

or

c) div 1: ECA
div 2: whatever

my preference is C, as this relieves the director of having to check all suits to a list of pre sept 07 and post sept 07. etc etc.

Paul Smith
July 10th, 2009, 11:55 AM
It still is very odd to me that weaing a Blue 70 is classied as "non-wetsuit"....

chaos
July 10th, 2009, 01:00 PM
It still is very odd to me that weaing a Blue 70 is classied as "non-wetsuit"....

same here.
and how is an event director supposed to enforce the "suits introduced prior to sept 07" rule? does USMS offer a field guide with color plates for identification? should they also have swimmers unzip to inspect the multiple suit rule?

Frank Thompson
July 10th, 2009, 01:05 PM
It still is very odd to me that weaing a Blue 70 is classied as "non-wetsuit"....

The B70 models of helix, synergie, reaction, and sprint are classified as wetsuits. I believe they could not be worn in a race that is classified as a non-wetsuit division.

The non wetsuits are called the B70 swim skins that were approved such as the nero comp, nero 10K, and the point zero 3. The open water 10K is approved for both pool and open water swims. All these models of B70 tech suits would be approved as written by FINA as legal for open water swimming.

http://www.blueseventy.com/

Frank Thompson
July 10th, 2009, 01:27 PM
is it possible for an open water race director to classify "tech suits" as a separate division from traditional swim wear and still receive a USMS sanction?

of the three scenarios below, which are possible?

A) div 1: english channel attire
div 2: tech suits
div 3: wet suits

or

B) div 1: tech suits
div 2: wet suits

or

c) div 1: ECA
div 2: whatever

my preference is C, as this relieves the director of having to check all suits to a list of pre sept 07 and post sept 07. etc etc.

I am going to say no that a sanction cannot be granted as written for both categories A and B. At this time, the reason is that there is no separate distinction in the USMS Rule book about the definition of a tech suit and a traditional suit or in your words ECA.

So as far as tech suits go, anything that was approved recently by FINA is ok for USA Open Water swims. FINA had stated that the suit decisions rendered recently do not apply to masters swimming rules so even if they did not change decision of 5-19-09, you could wear any tech suit you wanted to and probably some of the still banned suits that apply to swimming.

The USMS Rule Book states that swims with wetsuits are legal as long as the results are separated and you can still offer them at National Championships but they don't count officially for USMS National Championship awards or recognition for All American and All star status. So basically at USMS National Championships if you compete with in the wetsuit division, its more as a participation swim and the Meet Director can give meet awards but not official USMS awards.

Because your classifications of A and B are not defined in either the USMS Rule Book or the LMSC Handbook under Open Water sanctions, then you could not sanction your event under scenarios A and B.

chaos
July 10th, 2009, 01:28 PM
The B70 models of helix, synergie, reaction, and sprint are classified as wetsuits. I believe they could not be worn in a race that is classified as a non-suit division.

The non wetsuits are called the B70 swim skins that were approved such as the nero comp, nero 10K, and the point zero 3. The open water 10K is approved for both pool and open water swims. All these models of B70 tech suits would be approved as written by FINA as legal for open water swimming.

http://www.blueseventy.com/

thanks skip.
i guess the question is:
can a race director include a more exclusive division for an event that has been granted a USMS sanction as long as there is also a division that includes every FINA legal suit.

Frank Thompson
July 10th, 2009, 01:51 PM
Dave:

To answer your question, I don't think so. I think the suits in the exclusive division would have to be defined by some rule making authority, probably FINA , if you were to sanction the event and everyone understood what is a tech suit and what is a traditional suit.

In a non sanctioned event, I think it would be pretty simple to define and anything since the 1992 S 2000 would be classified as a tech suit and only traditional suits that were worn before that time would be classified ECA. Jammers and leg skins would be classified as tech suits because they came in style with the tech suit era. S 2000, Aquablade, and all the others that came after would be classified as tech.

The problem today is how would you enforce a division of suits without a definition in the rules. On top of that, we have tech suits in swimming that are either approved or not approved, then on top of that you have tech suits that are very close to being wet suits, which are all together illegal in most championship and non championship open water events and then on top of that, you have FINA saying that any decision that it rendered for Swimming as a NGB is not binding for Masters as a NGB.

orca1946
July 11th, 2009, 02:18 PM
It's a good time sponsor a bike race !!