PDA

View Full Version : Never saw so many Jaked's



rtodd
July 11th, 2009, 09:05 PM
I guess this is the best choice of approved suits based on what I saw at Nationals.

Where is the US dealer network?

Paul Smith
July 12th, 2009, 12:00 PM
Rob, you can pretty much count on about .8 to 1 second faster times in 100 over the other suits such as LZR & B70. I know Chris will jump all over me for saying this without valid research and I agree...however in talking to some people who aare at the meet competing and looking at previous best times its pretty consistent.

When Lezak went 47.8 at Mission awwhile back he was nowhere near peak form but the suit helped out that much.

Brunelli got his the day before he left for the meet, warmed up about 300 yards and popped a 19.3 in a 50...and his times at them meet (lifetime bests)were right in the same range of about .5 in his 50 and 1 second in his 100 and like Lezak he is not in his best shape right now.

Loved to see Phelps & Lochte wearing "old" LZR's and Piersol with leggings!

rtodd
July 12th, 2009, 12:09 PM
And don't forget Dave Walters dogging Phelps in the 200.

Paul Smith
July 12th, 2009, 12:18 PM
And don't forget Dave Walters dogging Phelps in the 200.

Sad to see records like Hansen's 3+ year old AR in the 100 breast go down to someone who had nevr broken 1:00.

The Fortress
July 12th, 2009, 12:25 PM
I read this morning, though, that Cullen Jones, in his swim off with Weber-Gale in the 50 free, broke the AR by switching to a LZR from a Jaked ...

Looks like Shanteau was swimming pretty fast in his Arena X-Glide as well.

Chris Stevenson
July 12th, 2009, 02:06 PM
I read this morning, though, that Cullen Jones, in his swim off with Weber-Gale in the 50 free, broke the AR by switching to a LZR from a Jaked ...

Looks like Shanteau was swimming pretty fast in his Arena X-Glide as well.

Fort, I'm going to have to ask you to stop posting contrarian data here. The pundits have spoken, and we know what we know. Schubert will be giving the definitive number any day now.

aquageek
July 12th, 2009, 02:19 PM
Sad to see records like Hansen's 3+ year old AR in the 100 breast go down to someone who had nevr broken 1:00.

Why is this sad? Do you know Gangloff or see him train? What is sad is statements like this. It's not like Mark came out of nowhere. What I consider sad is Hansen's meltdown last Summer, not Gangloff's incredibly hard work the past year.

Hansen could have trained hard, shown up in a Jaked but failed to do so.

orca1946
July 12th, 2009, 02:50 PM
FINA make up you're mind, if you have one ??!! This needs to be resolved soon.

Chris Stevenson
July 12th, 2009, 03:03 PM
What is sad is statements like this.

Woohoo, geek is back and perhaps not all that mellowed from vacation.:banana:

Paul Smith
July 12th, 2009, 03:59 PM
Why is this sad? Do you know Gangloff or see him train? What is sad is statements like this. It's not like Mark came out of nowhere. What I consider sad is Hansen's meltdown last Summer, not Gangloff's incredibly hard work the past year.

Hansen could have trained hard, shown up in a Jaked but failed to do so.

It is sad to me...in the same way as when Federer eclipses Sampras. My comment is not meant as a putdown of Mark but rather as another example of technology moving in leaps and bounds ahead of the training and technique development that preceded these suits.

And my point is reinforced even more because of your comment about him not coming "out of nowhere"...As good as Mark is if he did it wearing a jammer as Hansen did IMHO he would be suspected of using PED's...its that big of a difference (note my examples with Nick & Jason).

Glad to see your vacation restored your crankiness...it's been missed.

Spock
July 12th, 2009, 04:13 PM
I read this morning, though, that Cullen Jones, in his swim off with Weber-Gale in the 50 free, broke the AR by switching to a LZR from a Jaked ...


Watch it online here. (http://swimnetwork.com/videos/v/20090711/nationals_men_s_50_free_swim_off-16852.html)

aquageek
July 12th, 2009, 04:58 PM
My comment is not meant as a putdown of Mark but rather as another example of technology moving in leaps and bounds ahead of the training and technique development that preceded these suits.


When you only have first hand knowledge of one aspect of a swim, you fail to see the full picture. Why not just congratulate Gangloff and move on, Mr. Negative?

frankiej
July 12th, 2009, 05:15 PM
Watch it online here. (http://swimnetwork.com/videos/v/20090711/nationals_men_s_50_free_swim_off-16852.html)

Thanks for that link!:)

orca1946
July 12th, 2009, 05:41 PM
Tech stuff will only take you so far, the rest comes from work

Paul Smith
July 12th, 2009, 05:42 PM
When you only have first hand knowledge of one aspect of a swim, you fail to see the full picture. Why not just congratulate Gangloff and move on, Mr. Negative?



Wow...aren't we sensitive today...or is just a man-crush on Mark?

OK how about this...I was glad to see Phelps snag the 100 fly world record from Crocker (who set it wearing an older version legskin) wearing an old LZR from last year. And Geek if...as has been rumored...Phelps wears at Jaked at Worlds I'll bet you $100 right now he goest 49.5 or better.

I spoke with Phil Whitten today about the article on the suits he will be having published soon...very funny stuff.

knelson
July 12th, 2009, 07:19 PM
It is sad to me...in the same way as when Federer eclipses Sampras.

...or your 200 free 45-49 record going down to Dennis Baker last night! Wasn't sure if you heard yet, Paul. Dennis swam a 1:59.3 and also beat the WR which was set by a German guy last summer.

He was wearing a B70 not a Jaked, by the way.

The Fortress
July 12th, 2009, 07:20 PM
OK how about this...I was glad to see Phelps snag the 100 fly world record from Crocker (who set it wearing an older version legskin) wearing an old LZR from last year. And Geek if...as has been rumored...Phelps wears at Jaked at Worlds I'll bet you $100 right now he goest 49.5 or better.


Interesting. I saw his interview today and he did say he was not commenting on the suits until after Rome. Of course, both he and Bowman are on record as strongly hinting that Phelps is at a disadvantage in a LZR. Why hasn't Speedo come out with a competing suit yet? Or are they already in on what FINA's next pronouncement will be?

Thanks, Spock! Even better on the big screen!

knelson
July 12th, 2009, 07:25 PM
Why hasn't Speedo come out with a competing suit yet?

Probably due to not knowing what the heck FINA was going to do! After the first ruling Speedo thought they were sitting in the catbird seat. I bet they weren't real happy when FINA decided to let all the other suits back in. Touché!

Paul Smith
July 12th, 2009, 07:37 PM
...or your 200 free 45-49 record going down to Dennis Baker last night! Wasn't sure if you heard yet, Paul. Dennis swam a 1:59.3 and also beat the WR which was set by a German guy last summer.

He was wearing a B70 not a Jaked, by the way.

Bakes is a stud...and a great guy. As hard as it is to be supportive of a Gator I'm betting Switzer goes 1:58+ at Indy.

knelson
July 12th, 2009, 07:54 PM
Switzer entered himself with a 2:04.0. Sandbagger! :) Could be a good race between him and Chris Stevenson. I would expect Chris to be in that ballpark, too.

ehoch
July 13th, 2009, 12:00 AM
Got a Jaked just waiting for a fast swim ...

I was going to try it a last weekend - did not try it on before and there was NO WAY to get it on within a reasonable time the first time around...

Tried it on at home - it took a solid 20 minutes and lots of cursing and sweat :afraid: it's tougher than any of the other suits -- but once I had it on it feels more comfortable than my Blue 70.

Was going to wear it yesterday to make a run at the 200 Back record, but then I jammed my finger in the 400 Free before + I missed Baker's record by 1/2 a second ... maybe it's the Jinxed for me and not the Jaked :banana:

Bobinator
July 13th, 2009, 12:21 AM
I thought you were the guy who wanted tech suits banned. Am I mistaken or did you change your mind? :blush:

ddl
July 13th, 2009, 12:54 AM
People still trust Jaked after the ripped suit accident? :rolleyes:

(How to even pronounce the subject of this thread: "Never saw so many Jaked's "?)

thewookiee
July 13th, 2009, 08:30 AM
People still trust Jaked after the ripped suit accident? :rolleyes:

(How to even pronounce the subject of this thread: "Never saw so many Jaked's "?)

Jaked isn't the first suit to rip at meets. The LZR, B70, etc. all rip.

pwolf66
July 13th, 2009, 09:16 AM
It is sad to me...in the same way as when Federer eclipses Sampras. My comment is not meant as a putdown of Mark but rather as another example of technology moving in leaps and bounds ahead of the training and technique development that preceded these suits.



Really? You didn't mean to disparage Mark's hard work? And yet, you managed to marginalize it in yet another post.

Hmmmm.

Rykno
July 13th, 2009, 09:31 AM
They were selling the Jaked suits at the swedish nationals two weeks ago, and kids were lining up to get 2-3 each.

not sure what they cost in the US, but with the tax system in place over here they were running around $530 each!

Paul Smith
July 13th, 2009, 09:41 AM
Really? You didn't mean to disparage Mark's hard work? And yet, you managed to marginalize it in yet another post.

Hmmmm.

Disparage & marginalize eh?

Funny how some people choose to view things. So to make it real clear for you (and Geek) Pwolf...EVERY swimmer at the meet you can pretty much count on about .5 -1.0 seconds faster in a 100 wearing the Jaked than any other suit...clear enough? That includes everyone who never broke thru certain time bariers such as 1:00 or 50.0 no matter how hard they have or have not been working....

Chris Stevenson
July 13th, 2009, 09:48 AM
EVERY swimmer at the meet you can pretty much count on about .5 -1.0 seconds faster in a 100 wearing the Jaked than any other suit...clear enough?

Unless their names are Cullen Jones or Dara Torres, both of whom were pretty significantly faster in the 50 free in LZRs than in Jakeds.

Interesting how, if Phleps goes 49.5 or thereabouts wearing a Jaked, you'll attribute it entirely to the suit. Do you think he was fully tapered for that 50.2? Or that faster competition at Worlds might not push him a little bit faster? Of course, any new sprint-oriented training he might be doing nowadays has no effect.

Chris Stevenson
July 13th, 2009, 09:57 AM
Switzer entered himself with a 2:04.0. Sandbagger! :) Could be a good race between him and Chris Stevenson. I would expect Chris to be in that ballpark, too.

I don't know if I'll be in his ballpark, though I do hope to go under 2:00.

You want to see sandbagging, check out Switzer's 400 free entry time. 4:35, for a person who went something like 4:43 in the 500 at Clovis?:confused: (we definitely need a sandbagging icon)

Nice to see Bobby Patten entered in a meet, though.

Lump
July 13th, 2009, 09:57 AM
Phelps is under contract with Speedo so why do people speculate on him wearing anything else....ain't gonna happen.:confused:

Paul Smith
July 13th, 2009, 10:12 AM
Unless their names are Cullen Jones or Dara Torres, both of whom were pretty significantly faster in the 50 free in LZRs than in Jakeds.

Interesting how, if Phleps goes 49.5 or thereabouts wearing a Jaked, you'll attribute it entirely to the suit. Do you think he was fully tapered for that 50.2? Or that faster competition at Worlds might not push him a little bit faster? Of course, any new sprint-oriented training he might be doing nowadays has no effect.


If you saw Cullen's race in prelime he did wear a Jaked...and lost what I would guess to be at least .2 on the blown finish..maybe more.

Dara wore the Jaked in the finals I watched...
http://www.swimnetwork.com/videos/v/20090710/nationals_women_s_50m_free_a_final-16825.html

Not sure why you continue to play the skeptic on what these suits do Chris as you have been around the sport for a long time and have first hand experiance with them...and 'm sure you've spoken with a number of folks competing at this level and have heard there stories.

Lump...Speedo already opened the door so to speak on this subject so its not speculation.

aquageek
July 13th, 2009, 10:14 AM
That includes everyone who never broke thru certain time bariers such as 1:00 or 50.0 no matter how hard they have or have not been working....

So, in summary, you now marginalize any and all swimmers who improve or do lifetime bests simply by the brand of suit they are wearing. On this forum we have, on one hand, Mr. Negative #1 who owns the rights to how hard adults should swim and their level of dedication and, on the other hand, Mr. Negative #2 who feels obligated to put down any swimmer who puts up great times b/c of a swim suit solely.

Geez, such anxiety over others.

Paul Smith
July 13th, 2009, 10:40 AM
So, in summary, you now marginalize any and all swimmers who improve or do lifetime bests simply by the brand of suit they are wearing.

You can call in "marginaling"....I call it reality hillbilly!

And yes I am clearly marginalizing your opinion...

Mr. Furious
July 13th, 2009, 10:41 AM
And all of this on a Master's forum, speculating about a subject that doesn't even affect us. Glad you all can be so concerned about the kids. Or maybe some of you have substantial wagers placed on Worlds?

I wonder what the plural of doofus is?

Chris Stevenson
July 13th, 2009, 11:46 AM
If you saw Cullen's race in prelime he did wear a Jaked...and lost what I would guess to be at least .2 on the blown finish..maybe more.

Dara wore the Jaked in the finals I watched...
http://www.swimnetwork.com/videos/v/20090710/nationals_women_s_50m_free_a_final-16825.html

Not sure why you continue to play the skeptic on what these suits do Chris as you have been around the sport for a long time and have first hand experiance with them...and 'm sure you've spoken with a number of folks competing at this level and have heard there stories.

Cullen swam (significantly) faster in the swim-off, wearing a LZR. Yes, Dara wore a Jaked, and was significantly slower than in the Olympics (with the LZR). Granted, she also has a knee injury.

See, that's the thing...whenever someone swims slower with a super-suit you (and almost everybody) always look for extenuating circumstances: poor finish, injury, what-have-you. When people swim faster, you look no further.

As for being skeptical, that is the nature of science. No one at all was talking about the Jakeds when people wore them in the Olympics. Now they are the hot suit, and the reason that Auburn "stole" the NCAA championships. In 6 months it will be something else.

I haven't actually talked to anyone directly who has used a Jaked, nor have I worn one or held one. I don't have the contacts that you and others do with current elites; I talk to local fast age-groupers and a few local college kids. None of them around here have Jakeds, they still have LZRs and B70s. I honestly don't know that the Jaked is faster or not. Absolutely it may be.

Many people -- maybe most -- seem to have success with suit X. But I have also heard of others who have not improved, or even done worse, with that same suit. You just don't hear their stories very much, since they aren't on the podium. There are inherent biases in these anecdotal data that favor attributing (or blaming) performances on the suits.

By the way, I swam an in-season meet several weeks ago and wore a B70 leggings...I was tired from training and hoping to get some "pep." Result: crappy, crappy swimming, no better than practice swimming in training briefs. Maybe I didn't say the magic words just right before the races.

ehoch
July 13th, 2009, 12:25 PM
Just glanced through all the comments .... not convinced by the Jaked ????

It took me about 20.94 seconds to be a believer :applaud:

ehoch
July 13th, 2009, 12:47 PM
I thought you were the guy who wanted tech suits banned. Am I mistaken or did you change your mind?

Many people who want them banned still wear them ....

The problem I see even now is exactly what is showing in this Jaked thread and others, nobody knows what to attribute any fast times to ??? Suits, getting faster, maybe a little bit of both, maybe a little doping ????

We got a bunch of relay records we are going after this year - so anything for the relay ... for me, I will wear what I wore last year at all the rested meets - just to get a fair comparison for myself.

jim clemmons
July 13th, 2009, 03:09 PM
I wonder what the plural of doofus is?

Many doofus (?) or it could be "doofusus" (as in doofus-us)

Justin Ritter
July 13th, 2009, 03:30 PM
(How to even pronounce the subject of this thread: "Never saw so many Jaked's "?)

Never mind the plural, how do you even pronounce Jaked? Is it Jake-Ed or Jack-Ed or Jacked or Jaked (one syllable, like past-tense of "to Jake")? I haven't heard it out loud yet, just in writing.

Then again I'm still not sure I pronounce Tyr properly either.

knelson
July 13th, 2009, 03:47 PM
Then again I'm still not sure I pronounce Tyr properly either.

According to their website it's pronounced "tier." I was going to say, "tear" as in what your eye does, but "tier" works without needing further explanation :)

Chris Stevenson
July 13th, 2009, 03:48 PM
It took me about 20.94 seconds to be a believer :applaud:

You and everybody else. Whatever suit was worn for the latest eye-popping swim, by definition that suit has been "proven" to be the fastest; ignore any data that dare to hint otherwise.

I would have a little more confidence if someone could explain exactly why they are so much better than the other suits -- especially the other impermeable ones -- but I don't think anyone knows. (Leaving aside Craig Lord's ridiculous explanation about the importance of air trapping during the start, or about "interfacing directly with the CNS" or some other claptrap.)

John C Smith
July 13th, 2009, 04:26 PM
You and everybody else. Whatever suit was worn for the latest eye-popping swim, by definition that suit has been "proven" to be the fastest; ignore any data that dare to hint otherwise.

I would have a little more confidence if someone could explain exactly why they are so much better than the other suits -- especially the other impermeable ones -- but I don't think that's true. (Leaving aside Craig Lord's ridiculous explanation about the importance of air trapping during the start, or about "interfacing directly with the CNS" or some other claptrap.)


Chris..... If you're so convinced of the talent factor overiding the latest crazed rubber suit factor, why not just wear and old Fastskin full body Pro in all your races from now on instead of one of the new rubber wonder suits. You'll save some money..... :-)

lefty
July 13th, 2009, 05:17 PM
By the way, I swam an in-season meet several weeks ago and wore a B70 leggings...I was tired from training and hoping to get some "pep." Result: crappy, crappy swimming, no better than practice swimming in training briefs. Maybe I didn't say the magic words just right before the races.

Mr. Stevenson, if you think the suits don't work then don't wear them. Of all the dumb statements made by the likes of Craig Lord, implying that the suit a Blue70 is no better than a training briefs is the dumbest.

lefty
July 13th, 2009, 05:22 PM
You and everybody else. Whatever suit was worn for the latest eye-popping swim, by definition that suit has been "proven" to be the fastest; ignore any data that dare to hint otherwise.


the only one who has said that the Jaked has been "proven" to be the fastest suit is you. You have a tendency to marginalize other people's comments by creating strawman arguments. Dispute legitimate claims by attributing ridiculous claims to those who disagree with you...

The Fortress
July 13th, 2009, 05:29 PM
the only one who has said that the Jaked has been "proven" to be the fastest suit is you. You have a tendency to marginalize other people's comments by creating strawman arguments. Dispute legitimate claims by attributing ridiculous claims to those who disagree with you...

Is this the triathlete thread? :bolt:

Here's what Craig Lord says about the Jaked:

Jaked: Thank god it comes in black, as Henry Ford might have said! This is the suit that we saw on the Olympic skins of the golden wonders (who won no gold) among Italian men suited to the tune of the Italian federation's misguided flight from the Arena stable. Jaked describes its J01 suit as being "more than skin": It comes from a new advanced technology constructive such as thermo-welding, that give the clothes the maximum comfort due to total absence of seams and a revolutionary material-based polyurethane for its incredible mechanical and dynamics provide, allowing the swimmer maximum fluid-dynamics in water, as well as a muscle compression that reduce the strain. Lightness, fit, flexibility and total indeformability over time are the uniqueness of the product. [INDEFORMABILITY? WOW. WHAT JAKED GETS RIGHT IS AN EMPHASIS ON COMPRESSION, NOT BUOYANCY. COMPRESSION FACTORS WOULD BE KEY TO A DOPING SUIT OF THE FUTURE].

lefty
July 13th, 2009, 05:45 PM
Craig Lord is a complete bozo. His views are on the extreme edge of the "anti-suit" crowd. But for the record, while he may have been full of hot-air and hyperbole he nevers states that the Jaked has been "proven" to be the fastest suit.

(I love it when people make up words! Indeformability reminds me of something our last President would have said!)

ehoch
July 13th, 2009, 06:29 PM
Well - I am trying out the suits tomorrow -

6x50 from a push on 4 + minutes ... 2 plain / 2 Blue 70 / 2 Jaked .... I am usually pretty consistant with these type of swims. The only problem is going to be trying to get on the Jaked in less than 5 minutes - that may be impossible..... I know - it's not a research type test, but good enough for me.

For what it's worth - as I said before, it was soooo much more difficult to get the Jaked on, but once you have it on - it feels much more comfortable than the Blue 70.

rtodd
July 13th, 2009, 08:58 PM
Walters dropped 1.5 sec on his 200 free. I'm sure part of it was he was tapered and inspired next to Phelps and the rest is the suit benefit. This is the dilema, it's hard to extract and break out the two.

1.5sec is a major drop if his prior PB was recent and in a LZR. I'm not sure the circumstances of his prior PB.

KEWebb18
July 13th, 2009, 09:13 PM
Many doofus (?) or it could be "doofusus" (as in doofus-us)

I prefer to call them "doofii". It makes you sound smarter if you say it...

All suits aside--let people wear whatever suit they want. If they are tapered and put in the training, the suits don't win the race for them. I am sure that has been said numerous times on this forum.

I just don't see the justification in spending that kind of $$ on a suit.

swimcat
July 14th, 2009, 10:30 AM
Never mind the plural, how do you even pronounce Jaked? Is it Jake-Ed or Jack-Ed or Jacked or Jaked (one syllable, like past-tense of "to Jake")? I haven't heard it out loud yet, just in writing.

Then again I'm still not sure I pronounce Tyr properly either.


i emailed mazzy and asked him- just curious. i have heard jack-ed. i have heard a J pronounced as our Y - but who really cares? i dont mean this sarcastically. .
some of the age groupers wore one this past weekend at a meet and two swear by them. so who knows? as i said before Peirsol set world record in his arena x glide.
hmmm wondering if Bernard is pissed off.

Chris Stevenson
July 14th, 2009, 10:33 AM
Chris..... If you're so convinced of the talent factor overiding the latest crazed rubber suit factor, why not just wear and old Fastskin full body Pro in all your races from now on instead of one of the new rubber wonder suits. You'll save some money..... :-)

In this thread, I have been addressing Paul's statement that the Jakeds are a marked improvement over the LZR and B70s. I do think the suits make a difference, though I think the difference is less than generally believed.

As an aside, I did test the FSII body suit vs (old-style) jammers in a trials/finals meet. No statistical difference despite the prevailing wisdom at the time (this was a couple years ago). I'll grant you that the B70s, LZRs and later suits are an improvement over FSIIs.

Interestingly, my experience in this regard echoes the results at

http://www.floswimming.org/blogs/blogger/clbrammer/6164-part-iv-predictive-modeling-of-swim-performances-at-the-2008-olympic-games

which are well worth checking out (as is the entire blog). At the end they state

"Essentially, the games in 2000 and 2004 resulted in accurately predicted performances (using the performances swum in previous years to generate the newest model). Our conclusion is that the introduction of the first and second generation of ‘hi tech’ swim suits had no measurable effect upon swim performance. Only three events (out of a possible 52) were judged to be faster than our model predicted seems to validate our approach. However, in 2008, the modeling failed with more than half (17 of 26 events) being faster than predicted using identical methods as before."

I would love to see this sort of study where they analyze the effects of different suit materials and coverages (eg leggings vs full-body). And it would be great if some exercise phys types were tackling the question of cause (eg hydrodynamics, physiological effects of compression, buoyancy) in a systematic manner. Maybe they are and I don't know about it; it isn't an area that I keep up with.


Mr. Stevenson, if you think the suits don't work then don't wear them. Of all the dumb statements made by the likes of Craig Lord, implying that the suit a Blue70 is no better than a training briefs is the dumbest.

I think the suits do work. I just don't know that the Jaked is head and shoulders above its contemporaries, and don't like it when people point to individual swims that support this notion while ignoring others that do not. Or immediately assuming that the latest great swim must be almost entirely due to the suit (in the past, it was usually attributed to doping...in this new tech-suit era, I guess no one dopes anymore).

And yes, I have no plans to buy a Jaked.


the only one who has said that the Jaked has been "proven" to be the fastest suit is you. You have a tendency to marginalize other people's comments by creating strawman arguments. Dispute legitimate claims by attributing ridiculous claims to those who disagree with you...

I'm not sure where the venom is coming from. From what I can tell, the opinion that the Jaked is faster than (say) the LZR is widely held. If you don't like my arguments, then refute them or ignore them, up to you.

letsrace
July 14th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Well - I am trying out the suits tomorrow -

6x50 from a push on 4 + minutes ... 2 plain / 2 Blue 70 / 2 Jaked .... I am usually pretty consistant with these type of swims. The only problem is going to be trying to get on the Jaked in less than 5 minutes - that may be impossible..... I know - it's not a research type test, but good enough for me.

For what it's worth - as I said before, it was soooo much more difficult to get the Jaked on, but once you have it on - it feels much more comfortable than the Blue 70.

Erik, it took me 45 minutes to get the Jaked on last week. I didn't get a chance to try the same suit on a second time. If you are putting on the Jaked for a second time can you give a report on how long it takes compared with your first dressing?

The Fortress
July 14th, 2009, 12:13 PM
Erik, it took me 45 minutes to get the Jaked on last week. I didn't get a chance to try the same suit on a second time. If you are putting on the Jaked for a second time can you give a report on how long it takes compared with your first dressing?

45 minutes?!?! Ouch.

How many swims is one supposed to get out of the Jaked?

knelson
July 14th, 2009, 12:14 PM
Erik, it took me 45 minutes to get the Jaked on last week.

Did you wear it in your 100 back in Indy? If so, what did you think?

Chris Stevenson
July 14th, 2009, 12:14 PM
6x50 from a push on 4 + minutes ... 2 plain / 2 Blue 70 / 2 Jaked .... I am usually pretty consistant with these type of swims. The only problem is going to be trying to get on the Jaked in less than 5 minutes - that may be impossible.....

Maybe you can do the Jaked swims first? If they are hard to put on when dry, they might be almost impossible when wet...

jim clemmons
July 14th, 2009, 12:23 PM
Erik, it took me 45 minutes to get the Jaked on last week. I didn't get a chance to try the same suit on a second time. If you are putting on the Jaked for a second time can you give a report on how long it takes compared with your first dressing?

Doesn't seem like a "dressing" - seems more like an "installation". Reminds me of the first time in a B70 - 10/15 minutes - I didn't really time it. Now I can get it on in under a minute flat.

geochuck
July 14th, 2009, 06:30 PM
Jaked the ungrateful swim suit Manufacturer. In the last couple of weeks I have referred several leads to them from people who wanted to buy Jaked suits. They have not even thanked me. I think they are jerks.

ehoch
July 14th, 2009, 06:32 PM
The Suit Showdown at Westwood: Skin vs Blue 70 vs Jaked

About the conditions - the Westwood pool is indoors short-course meters without blocks. I did do dives from the pool deck which is about 1 foot above the waterline. The timer did take my time "feet leaving the wall" or a rolling start. I did not want to go from a push because I felt a dive may be a significant part of trying the suits because of the extended underwater. There were 3 other swimmers in the lane - so I did have some waves, but everything fine otherwise.

The Contenders:
Skin has been in the business for 40 years now (at least for me :) ) - skin has been battle tested for decades used to be good enough for all swim meets. Skin can only show it's full potential though once all the hair is removed. Skin HATES all the new contenders- they represent everything evil and what is wrong with technology and progress.

Blue 70 - the new kid on the block is not so new anymore. Blue 70 was the new sensation last year. He came out of nowhere and took the country by storm. Blue 70 is hip and trendy - he despises anything to do with Speedo and he feels sorry for Skin for being so outdated. My version of the Blue 70 is a little older and appears just a little too big right now.

Jaked - the new Italian speedster. Jaked is the Ferrari of swim suits - he fits like an Armani and performs like an Italian sports car. He looks sharp and appears to be the suit of choice for Formula 1 teams (aka top sprinters in the world).

The test: 5x50 Freestyle - 1 Skin, 2 Blue 70 and 2 Jaked -- full recovery in between. It took about 5 minutes to get the BLue 70 on and about 10 minutes for the Jaked. I did get plenty of rest except for the last 50, since time was running short.

The Showdown:
First swim = Skin = 25.09 -- good start, I have not sprinted all that much, so I would expect a slight improvment on this time for the next few 50s in a regular set.

Second Swim = Blue 70 = 24.05 -- "Skin" is in disbelief - how is this possible and how could it be legal ?

3rd Swim = Blue 70 = 23.92 -- "Skin" has left the pool in tears -- Jaked is just waiting for his chance. Blue 70 is happy to have shown his stuff - he thinks Italians should stick with food rather than speed suits.

4th Swim (after a 10 minute "battle" with the suit) = Jaked = 23.47 -- Blue 70 wants a check of the timing system. He believes the timer is on the take by the Italian Mafia -- all things Italian must be "connected". The time stands - the swim did not feel all that much different - but 0.45 !!!

5th Swim - not a full recovery = Jaked = 23.80 - felt tired coming home and had to breathe more - even without knowing the time, I would have guessed about 3/10 slower or so.

The Jaked has proven to be the winner in the training run -- we will have to wait for race day now....Skin is joining the Craig Lord inquisition movement and Blue 70 is going back to the drawing board....

knelson
July 14th, 2009, 06:43 PM
Great test, Erik! Are you sure you didn't get Jim Thornton to ghost write this for you? :)

John C Smith
July 14th, 2009, 07:19 PM
..... I think the suits do work. I just don't know that the Jaked is head and shoulders above its contemporaries, and don't like it when people point to individual swims that support this notion while ignoring others that do not.


Chris,

Do you give any superiority in performance to the Jaked vs. the LZR?

Nothing......... or pehaps 1 tenth per 100.... 2 tenths per 100 advantage?

Chris Stevenson
July 14th, 2009, 07:26 PM
Thanks for posting your results, Erik. Too bad you didn't shave -- it is in the name of science, right? :) What is your typical drop in a 50 when you do? I realize this may be hard to answer, since shaving usually coincides with tapering... Also, are the suits roughly the same age/equally used? I am struck by the difference in time it took you to put on the Jaked compared to Mike.

In two weekends I will be doing a half-rested, shaved meet in a trials/final format. No Jaked but I'll be comparing two suits, I just haven't decided which ones: Tracer Light vs B70 leggings (ie, testing permeable vs impermeable), or B70 legs vs B70 knee-skin (ie, testing effect of coverage).

pwb
July 14th, 2009, 08:34 PM
The Suit Showdown at Westwood: Skin vs Blue 70 vs Jaked

Thanks for posting. One question: how often do you usually descend these sets in workout? I know that I generally get faster through many sets.

rtodd
July 14th, 2009, 08:43 PM
Thanks for posting. One question: how often do you usually descend these sets in workout? I know that I generally get faster through many sets.

Good point. Perhaps flip the order next week and post again? That may be revealing.

ehoch
July 14th, 2009, 10:20 PM
A couple of responses -

- my Blue 70 is for sure "used" - it's a little to wide in some areas, but it's still good. The Jaked was never wet before.

- Just like swimming, I cut my "putting on the suit" time by quite a bit - I was really struggling the first time around. It needs a little different way of putting it on, because the legs are so tight throughout. You actually have quite a bit of trouble just finding something to pull - and then you always worry about tearing it ...

- I sometimes descend sets like this, but only a small descend - the first 50 felt good already - in my experience, I may have been able to drop to 24.75 or so by just swimming "skin".

- not sure how much a good taper will do -- it's been an odd season for me. I just worked on technique for a while and started lifting / more intense training 4 weeks ago. Then I popped a really fast 100 relay time out of nowhere a week ago and a good 400 time in a crappy pool last Sat .. now I don't know what and how to taper ....

Chris Stevenson
July 14th, 2009, 11:16 PM
Chris,

Do you give any superiority in performance to the Jaked vs. the LZR?

Nothing......... or pehaps 1 tenth per 100.... 2 tenths per 100 advantage?

John, I really have no idea. I guess one way to tackle the question would be to look at data the way that Kirk did earlier but for a much larger sample size, and to break it down by stroke/distance (since it looks like those factors seem to affect the suits' enhancement).

But is the Jaked really going to be with us in its present form for much longer? I'm not sure it is worth the trouble to find out how much they help.

I guess I wish they (FINA, USS) would invest a little effort into investigating the effect of (a) fabric and (b) coverage of the suits, since they are talking so much about regulating both of those things. For example, if they find out that permeability makes no difference (eg it is all about compression), then let the suit manufacturers use what they want, as long as it isn't too buoyant.

Chris Stevenson
July 14th, 2009, 11:18 PM
- not sure how much a good taper will do -- it's been an odd season for me. I just worked on technique for a while and started lifting / more intense training 4 weeks ago. Then I popped a really fast 100 relay time out of nowhere a week ago and a good 400 time in a crappy pool last Sat .. now I don't know what and how to taper ....

I saw you weren't entered at nationals...what will your big meet be this summer, if any? I'm sure you'll figure the whole taper thing out, just stay injury-free this time. :)

orca1946
July 15th, 2009, 12:31 AM
FINA DOES not know what they are doing 1 hr from now ??!!:afraid:

John C Smith
July 15th, 2009, 10:10 AM
...... I guess I wish they (FINA, USS) would invest a little effort into investigating the effect of (a) fabric and (b) coverage of the suits, since they are talking so much about regulating both of those things. For example, if they find out that permeability makes no difference (eg it is all about compression), then let the suit manufacturers use what they want, as long as it isn't too buoyant.

Chris,

I doubt anyone will invest much money in an unbiased comparison test. FINA has been a reactive organization, not a proactive one. They are disappointing in their decision process.

Just started swimming again after a long break. I may go back to the old small classic speedo briefs and just give up on all this nonsense. I wore one of the newer TYR rubber suits at Austin Masters Nationals a year or so ago as a trick to beat a friend of mine, but he had managed to obtain a LZR from Rowdy so that didn't work.... :-) We laughed.

I do believe the Jaked is a faster suit than the LZR after speaking to several college coaches and swimmer this year...... and yes.... some were from Texas, but other teams as well. It sounds like the body compression elements are improved as well as more rubber surface area. Most of the guys I spoke to think its between 8 tenths and a second faster per 100 depending on body type and physique.

Good or bad....... swimming has always been a sport of fads. This too shall pass..... :-)

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2009, 11:00 AM
Chris,

I doubt anyone will invest much money in an unbiased comparison test. FINA has been a reactive organization, not a proactive one. They are disappointing in their decision process.

Just started swimming again after a long break. I may go back to the old small classic speedo briefs and just give up on all this nonsense. I wore one of the newer TYR rubber suits at Austin Masters Nationals a year or so ago as a trick to beat a friend of mine, but he had managed to obtain a LZR from Rowdy so that didn't work.... :-) We laughed.

I do believe the Jaked is a faster suit than the LZR after speaking to several college coaches and swimmer this year...... and yes.... some were from Texas, but other teams as well. It sounds like the body compression elements are improved as well as more rubber surface area. Most of the guys I spoke to think its between 8 tenths and a second faster per 100 depending on body type and physique.

Good or bad....... swimming has always been a sport of fads. This too shall pass..... :-)

Who are you?

aquageek
July 15th, 2009, 11:28 AM
Good or bad....... swimming has always been a sport of fads. This too shall pass..... :-)

I think swimming hasn't had enough fads, which is why when one pops up everyone loses their minds and has hissy fits.

lefty
July 15th, 2009, 12:02 PM
Great test, Erik! Are you sure you didn't get Jim Thornton to ghost write this for you? :)

In 2nd language no less. really great job Ehoch!

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2009, 12:03 PM
I think swimming hasn't had enough fads, which is why when one pops up everyone loses their minds and has hissy fits.

Guess you missed the 70's when "Time Off" was introduced...

ehoch
July 15th, 2009, 12:53 PM
I have to say - even after knowing quite a bit about the added speed of the suits and all the discussions -- it is very strange to do a test like this -

You swim a certain time and then put on a suit and drop 1.5 seconds - you usually don't get the exact comparison. It's a strange mix of fun and feeling a little "guilty".

geochuck
July 15th, 2009, 01:04 PM
Are we having a Psycholigical approach. We think it is better and seem to swim better because we spent $550 for the suit. Or is it I paid $550 it has to be faster so I must swim faster???

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2009, 01:05 PM
I have to say - even after knowing quite a bit about the added speed of the suits and all the discussions -- it is very strange to do a test like this -

You swim a certain time and then put on a suit and drop 1.5 seconds - you usually don't get the exact comparison. It's a strange mix of fun and feeling a little "guilty".

Exactly what Brunelli & Lezak said the first time in a Jaked...

There may be a way to do some very intensive testing of these suits but if you race a lot and have tried a variety of suits in various phases of training and meet cycles...although subjective...you should have a fairly good handle on where your times would be.

John C Smith
July 15th, 2009, 01:17 PM
....
There may be a way to do some very intensive testing of these suits but if you race a lot and have tried a variety of suits in various phases of training and meet cycles...although subjective...you should have a fairly good handle on where your times would be.


I agree with the ugly Smith. These suits seem to fairly consistently demonstrate an advantage over no rubber at all. It doesn't take long to figure out about how much per 50 or 100 you get to subtract.

I vote we bring back the silicon Time Off cheater spray. What the heck at this point.

The Fortress
July 15th, 2009, 01:23 PM
I think swimming hasn't had enough fads, which is why when one pops up everyone loses their minds and has hissy fits.

I agree. Bring 'em on! Though it is rather, er, amusing, to see the Smiths have hissy fits and wax nostalgic.

Unlike John, I'm glad the SDK was not a fad.

CreamPuff
July 15th, 2009, 01:28 PM
So it sounds like if you have a Jaked (at least as a masters swimmer), you had better easily win your events and set some world/ national records or feel - (insert smiley icon with an L on the forehead. . . ) My point being that Jaked seems to offer HUGE advantage . . . that's the conclusion I've come to.

aquageek
July 15th, 2009, 01:55 PM
Guess you missed the 70's when "Time Off" was introduced...

Most other sports have a fad a season and don't have to revert to the 70s to find the last one. You and the 70s, get over it already, geez.

There have been more fads in track and field, golf, basketball, tennis, football over the years than swimming could possibly imagine. I think baseball might be the only sport with fewer fads, except with George Costanza introduced the all cotton jersey as the Assistant to the Traveling Secretary for the NYY.

Paul Smith
July 15th, 2009, 02:26 PM
So it sounds like if you have a Jaked (at least as a masters swimmer), you had better easily win your events and set some world/ national records or feel - (insert smiley icon with an L on the forehead. . . ) My point being that Jaked seems to offer HUGE advantage . . . that's the conclusion I've come to.

how does 1:04.8 - 1:04.5 range sound?

letsrace
July 15th, 2009, 03:57 PM
Did you wear it in your 100 back in Indy? If so, what did you think?

I wore the BlueSeventy leggings in the 100 back. Same pair that I wore at Charlotte and earlier at Zones.

I wore the Jaked in the 4x200 free relay. My take was that the suit took a lot of effort to put on for a small gain. I also suspect that the suit is fragile, allowing only a few wearings. Did it make me go faster? Yes, probably. Faster than the BlueSeventy? I don't think so, but it is hard to compare this one 200 free with other 200 frees of the past.

Erik, 10 minutes?! What size are you wearing? I think I had a 28. It took me 29 minutes just to get the suit over my hips!

CreamPuff
July 15th, 2009, 04:54 PM
how does 1:04.8 - 1:04.5 range sound?

That's what is so interesting. Part of me would be thrilled but the other part of me would be - er, that's the suit!!!

orca1946
July 17th, 2009, 03:30 PM
What size would I wear ? I'M 6FT & 230 LBS. YEAH, I KNOW OLD, FAT GUY,BUT STILL AT IT IN THE 63R YEAR OF SWIMMING?

G8or#1
July 18th, 2009, 07:31 PM
Chris,



Good or bad....... swimming has always been a sport of fads. This too shall pass..... :-)

Just like your passing this season Mr Smith? So much talk of fashion on this board.

ehoch
July 20th, 2009, 12:17 PM
Mike - I am wearing a size 30. I "improved" my time by using a plastic bag over my feet + I think it actually helped to dry off right after swimming - my skin was very dry. Also, I finally found a spot to be able to actually pull the suit up a little bit to get it over my feet - you can get a little better grab on the heel.

Orca - I am not sure you would get the suit on -- they are so freaking tight. I am 6'5 and 195 - wearing a size 30. They are cut very long on the legs - so if you size up, your legs will be way long ...

Allen Stark
July 20th, 2009, 03:48 PM
The Jaked website is-jaked.it.They will sell the suits for $450 to the US.They don't take credit cards though,only bank wire transfers.

geochuck
July 20th, 2009, 03:56 PM
To order a Jaked you must contact them here - info@jaked.it you send you measurements waist, chest, height, weight, and height. Website http://www.jaked.it/

ehoch
July 20th, 2009, 05:40 PM
Go through the ebay store they have -- just type in Ebay and Italy - once there type in Jaked - it will get you to the store. Not sure what they have left now - but I did a Paypal transaction and had the suit in 3 days.

Allen Stark
July 24th, 2009, 01:51 PM
After watching Gangloff drop his time significantly I went to the Jaked website.I would not describe it as user friendly but I did find the contact address and emailed to see If I could get a suit by Nats.I was doing this almost as a lark,but I got an immediate response(from"Sylvia") saying yes just give my measurements in cm and Kg and that the price was $450 including postage.That was much less than a LZR and near a B-70 so I thought "OK".She said a 24 should be right(I am 5'8" and a 26 B-70 was certainly not too small so I thought that sounded right.)She also said they didn't take credit cards and to do a bank wire.I did last Fri and the suit arrived yesterday.When I got the suit out I thought there was a mistake,it was SO small(my son said"that's the children's suit,where is your suit.") I had read about it taking 45 min to get on and I thought that must be an exaggeration,it isn't.It does stretch amazingly so I did get it on,but if I hadn't had my wife's help I'd still be working at it.Once on it didn't explode and I could breath(a little) so I guess it fits.I did literally get blisters on my fingers from gripping it.It doesn't feel like any other suit,it really feels like rubber as I put it on.I'll swim in it a little this weekend to make sure it doesn't explode or something and then on to Indy.

jaked
July 31st, 2009, 08:26 PM
hey I bought 10 jaked j01s for swimmers on my team from http://www.jakedusa.com and they came very promptly. I highly recommend it over jaked.it

geochuck
March 5th, 2011, 11:19 AM
Where and how can we buy Jaked now. I have tried to buy and have not been able to.

rtodd
March 5th, 2011, 11:39 AM
good question. Just because they are illegal it would still be fun to see the difference in practice.

geochuck
March 5th, 2011, 11:42 AM
After a lot of searching I came up with this http://www.jakedstore.it/eng/prodotti.asp?provenienza=World

rtodd
March 5th, 2011, 12:17 PM
It costs 99 what? Are these the illegal rubber?

lefty
March 5th, 2011, 12:28 PM
Rtodd I think that they are. I am going to buy one. It is 99 euro plus 35 shipping so about 170 dollars.

geochuck
March 5th, 2011, 01:42 PM
Simple here is the FINA Approved list http://www.fina.org/H2O/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=917&Itemid=461 go to Jaked

orca1946
March 5th, 2011, 02:04 PM
I tried jakedusa.com & got a "free" lap top site???????

androvski
March 6th, 2011, 08:08 AM
A friend of mine recently bought the new (and legal) top of the line Jaked and I must say I was quite impressed with the material, which supposedly contains polyurethane. It feels very sturdy and thick, much like the old LZR. He hasn't swum with it yet though.

geochuck
March 6th, 2011, 10:01 AM
I think before anyone races in a suit they should only wear FINA approved suits. Here is another list of the suits. Is the suit you are going to get approved. http://www.fina.org/H2O/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=917&Itemid=461

lefty
March 7th, 2011, 11:28 AM
So I just completed the purchase of the J01full body. I got it in Red. THe total cost was 117 Euros (not sure where the discount came from). I assume i will never be able to wear it at a meet, but it will be fun to practice in.