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ande
July 21st, 2009, 11:45 AM
2009 USMS Long Course National Championships (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats09)
Indianapolis, IN
Thu Aug 6th - Sun Aug 9

RESULTS (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats09/realtime/)

Psych Sheets (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats09/heats/)

ande
August 4th, 2009, 03:00 PM
Meet Begins this Thursday less than 2 days
psych & heat sheet (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats09/heats/)


RESULTS (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats09/realtime/)

ande
August 6th, 2009, 10:58 AM
The Fun has begun 400 IM's are done
50 fly
RESULTS (http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats09/realtime/)

ande
August 6th, 2009, 11:21 AM
that's an excellent swim for Leslie

Event 4 Women 45-49 50 LC Meter Butterfly
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 29.52 9/7/2008 K PIPES-NEILSEN
World: W 29.52 9/7/2008 K.PIPES-NEILSEN, USA
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Ditommaso, Laurie A 47 GSM 30.86 29.37N
2 Dahl, Lisa A 48 PNA 30.08 29.57
3 Livingston, Leslie C 48 ABM 31.13 29.74

KEWebb18
August 6th, 2009, 11:54 AM
I have now decided that I am going to switch from sprint freestyle to the 400 IM so that I can place in the top 3 in my age group at Nationals :D

Great jobs so far by all!

ande
August 6th, 2009, 12:38 PM
I always thought of myself as a sprinter, but had a decent 400 IM LCM this year. Not as many people want to swim it. Some events are way tougher than others, like the 50 free, everybody swims it, an easy way to gage is to look at how many heats of each event there are. 200 fly doesn't get many takers.

at this Nats there's 36 heats of Mens 50 free there was like 13 heats of 400 IM

Ande


I have now decided that I am going to switch from sprint freestyle to the 400 IM so that I can place in the top 3 in my age group at Nationals :D

Great jobs so far by all!

ande
August 6th, 2009, 12:39 PM
WTF? chris DQed in 200 bk
did he SDK too far
he went like 2:12 or 13

ande

Event 5 Men 45-49 200 LC Meter Backstroke
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Marty Mennen - David Lewis
Jim Thompson
NATL: N 2:18.44 6/7/2008 STEVE WOOD
World: W 2:18.25 6/21/2008 LEN GUSHE, CAN
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Vicioso, Danilo 46 DOM 2:26.00 2:24.99
33.26 1:10.58 (37.32)
1:48.63 (38.05) 2:24.99 (36.36)
2 Wells, Brad R 48 MOVY 2:27.50 2:27.12
34.80 1:12.81 (38.01)
1:50.30 (37.49) 2:27.12 (36.82)
3 Graham, Bart L 49 AWJ 2:28.86 2:27.93
35.00 1:12.64 (37.64)
1:51.43 (38.79) 2:27.93 (36.50)
4 Newman, Steven M 47 BDGR 2:34.74 2:29.74
35.61 1:13.68 (38.07)
1:52.47 (38.79) 2:29.74 (37.27)
5 Thain, Doug A 49 MTSC 2:43.02 2:35.66
1:14.29 ( )
1:54.45 (40.16) 2:35.66 (41.21)
6 Sikora, Rod 49 DAMM 2:41.73 2:38.00
37.33 1:17.36 (40.03)
1:58.10 (40.74) 2:38.00 (39.90)
7 Deloney, Wayne A 49 MVN 2:52.50 2:39.01
35.14 1:15.81 (40.67)
1:58.68 (42.87) 2:39.01 (40.33)
8 Baldwin, Norm C 47 CSMT 2:41.42 2:43.99
36.39 1:15.50 (39.11)
1:57.86 (42.36) 2:43.99 (46.13)
9 Caudrillier, Francois 47 NIAG 2:55.96 2:47.73
39.55 1:21.80 (42.25)
2:04.94 (43.14) 2:47.73 (42.79)
10 Pegues, Lex 49 ELG 2:49.50 2:51.65
40.43 1:23.42 (42.99)
2:08.66 (45.24) 2:51.65 (42.99)
-- Stevenson, Chris L 45 VMST 2:13.48 DQ

ehoch
August 6th, 2009, 01:01 PM
Do they have a webcast ... ? We are spoiled now :applaud:

ande
August 6th, 2009, 02:24 PM
nice 50 fly's

Event 3 Men 25-29 50 LC Meter Butterfly
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 23.71 8/16/2008 KOHEI KAWAMOTO
World: W 23.71 8/16/2008 KOHEI KAWAMOTO, USA
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Doak, Kevin 28 MICH 25.84 25.40

Event 3 Men 30-34 50 LC Meter Butterfly
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 24.73 8/10/2006 OSWALDO QUEVEDO
World: W 24.73 8/6/2006 OSWALDO QUEVEDO, USA
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Quevedo, Oswaldo J 33 FEVE 25.50 24.17W

Event 3 Men 40-44 50 LC Meter Butterfly
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 25.87 8/20/2000 PAUL SMITH
World: W 25.87 8/20/2000 PAUL SMITH, USA
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Ross, Michael S 41 MESC 26.63 25.57N
2 Hiltabiddle, Steve 43 JAM 25.97 25.73N

Event 3 Men 45-49 50 LC Meter Butterfly
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 25.90 8/10/2006 PAUL SMITH
World: W 25.90 8/6/2006 PAUL SMITH, USA
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Golden, Larry 49 ARKM 27.98 26.70


Event 3 Men 55-59 50 LC Meter Butterfly
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 27.08 6/24/2007 GREG SHAW
World: W 27.08 6/24/2007 GREG SHAW, USA
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Hall, Gary W 58 DOC 28.27 26.86N

That Guy
August 6th, 2009, 03:42 PM
letsrace seems to be having a good day. :bow:

Event 9 Men 40-44 200 LC Meter Freestyle
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Francis E. McAree, Jr
World: W 1:55.06 8/6/2006 RICHARD SAEGER, USA
NATL: N 1:55.06 8/10/2006 RICH SAEGER
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Ross, Michael S 41 MESC 1:55.62 1:55.06W
26.16 55.07 (28.91)
1:24.26 (29.19) 1:55.06 (30.80)

Jeff Commings
August 6th, 2009, 04:31 PM
I'm sure he'd be happier if he went .01 faster.

JimRude
August 6th, 2009, 04:32 PM
WTF? chris DQed in 200 bk
did he SDK too far
he went like 2:12 or 13

ande

Event 5 Men 45-49 200 LC Meter Backstroke
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Marty Mennen - David Lewis
Jim Thompson
NATL: N 2:18.44 6/7/2008 STEVE WOOD
World: W 2:18.25 6/21/2008 LEN GUSHE, CAN
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Vicioso, Danilo 46 DOM 2:26.00 2:24.99
33.26 1:10.58 (37.32)
1:48.63 (38.05) 2:24.99 (36.36)
2 Wells, Brad R 48 MOVY 2:27.50 2:27.12
34.80 1:12.81 (38.01)
1:50.30 (37.49) 2:27.12 (36.82)
3 Graham, Bart L 49 AWJ 2:28.86 2:27.93
35.00 1:12.64 (37.64)
1:51.43 (38.79) 2:27.93 (36.50)
4 Newman, Steven M 47 BDGR 2:34.74 2:29.74
35.61 1:13.68 (38.07)
1:52.47 (38.79) 2:29.74 (37.27)
5 Thain, Doug A 49 MTSC 2:43.02 2:35.66
1:14.29 ( )
1:54.45 (40.16) 2:35.66 (41.21)
6 Sikora, Rod 49 DAMM 2:41.73 2:38.00
37.33 1:17.36 (40.03)
1:58.10 (40.74) 2:38.00 (39.90)
7 Deloney, Wayne A 49 MVN 2:52.50 2:39.01
35.14 1:15.81 (40.67)
1:58.68 (42.87) 2:39.01 (40.33)
8 Baldwin, Norm C 47 CSMT 2:41.42 2:43.99
36.39 1:15.50 (39.11)
1:57.86 (42.36) 2:43.99 (46.13)
9 Caudrillier, Francois 47 NIAG 2:55.96 2:47.73
39.55 1:21.80 (42.25)
2:04.94 (43.14) 2:47.73 (42.79)
10 Pegues, Lex 49 ELG 2:49.50 2:51.65
40.43 1:23.42 (42.99)
2:08.66 (45.24) 2:51.65 (42.99)
-- Stevenson, Chris L 45 VMST 2:13.48 DQ

Yep, apparently he went past the 15m mark (this according to Fort).

Kurt Dickson
August 6th, 2009, 04:40 PM
that's an excellent swim for Leslie

Event 4 Women 45-49 50 LC Meter Butterfly
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 29.52 9/7/2008 K PIPES-NEILSEN
World: W 29.52 9/7/2008 K.PIPES-NEILSEN, USA
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Ditommaso, Laurie A 47 GSM 30.86 29.37N
2 Dahl, Lisa A 48 PNA 30.08 29.57
3 Livingston, Leslie C 48 ABM 31.13 29.74

Yeah and from my angle, #1 had the biggest roll start ever--at least a few tenths and definitely a false start.

ande
August 6th, 2009, 04:50 PM
that elusive hundredth

200's are hard to correctly split

If I were his coach, I'd say

great effort! Looks like you were a little too aggressive on your first 50 and it cost you on your last 50. Maybe if you gave up 1/2 or 3/4ths of second on the first 50, you might have kept the next 3 under 29, ideal being 26.9 28.9 28.9 28.9
your 1:38 SCY swim is much stronger, you've got great turns & excellent SDK
bet that last 25 hurt like a mother. Great swim, warm down rest up for tomorrow.



letsrace seems to be having a good day. :bow:

Event 9 Men 40-44 200 LC Meter Freestyle
================================================== ======
Sponsor: Francis E. McAree, Jr
World: W 1:55.06 8/6/2006 RICHARD SAEGER, USA
NATL: N 1:55.06 8/10/2006 RICH SAEGER
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ======
1 Ross, Michael S 41 MESC 1:55.62 1:55.06W
26.16 55.07 (28.91) 1:24.26 (29.19) 1:55.06 (30.80)

knelson
August 6th, 2009, 04:52 PM
I'm sure he'd be happier if he went .01 faster.

Check the video! Maybe he didn't hit the pad with enough force. ;)

pwb
August 6th, 2009, 05:25 PM
I always thought of myself as a sprinter, but had a decent 400 IM LCM this year. Not as many people want to swim it. Some events are way tougher than others, like the 50 free, everybody swims it

Dude, you've got it backwards: some events are way easier than others, like the 50 free, so everybody swims it. Other events, like the 400 IM, are so tough that only the few, the proud, the truly tough swimmers attempt it.

As someone whose fave event is the 400 IM and who has the slowest measured reaction time off the blocks in the history of the sport, I say this without any bias at all.:)

pwolf66
August 6th, 2009, 05:41 PM
Yeah and from my angle, #1 had the biggest roll start ever--at least a few tenths and definitely a false start.

Double confirmation!!!!!! I saw movement there also.

Allen Stark
August 6th, 2009, 08:25 PM
I've always been really motivated by the get out swims at the end of workout so I told myself I could scratch the 200 fly if I broke 1:17.50 in the 100 BR-
1:16.83-best time in 11 yr(OK it was the suit,but still) and so no 200 fly:bliss:

mctrusty
August 6th, 2009, 08:35 PM
I've always been really motivated by the get out swims at the end of workout so I told myself I could scratch the 200 fly if I broke 1:17.50 in the 100 BR-
1:16.83-best time in 11 yr(OK it was the suit,but still) and so no 200 fly:bliss:

Nice job Allen!

Allen Stark
August 6th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Nice job Allen!

Thanks!

Chris Stevenson
August 6th, 2009, 09:58 PM
WTF? chris DQed in 200 bk
did he SDK too far
he went like 2:12 or 13[/B]

Yes, past the 15m mark on the start (I took the same # of kicks as always but was slightly deeper than usual). I went 2:12.2 and was happy with the swim...other than that small little thing. :) First time I've been called on that; in fact, first time I've been DQ'd in over 20 years.

Actual words from the official afterward: "That was a great swim, congratulations! But I'm going to have to DQ you."

Coach Chris told me they also DQ'd one of his swimmers on her backstroke finish: submersing herself with one of those underwater lunges (which I've always hated). That's an unusual call, and a little hard to make.

Jeff Commings
August 7th, 2009, 11:09 AM
That woman should have protested her DQ. This is from the USMS rule book:

Upon the finish of the race, the swimmer must touch the wall while
on the back. The body may be submerged at the touch.

Sorry about your DQ, Chris.

knelson
August 7th, 2009, 11:36 AM
Check out this swim.

Event 13 Men 55-59 200 LC Meter Butterfly
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Doug Miller
World: W 2:26.37 6/14/2008 SCOTT LAUTMAN, USA
NATL: N 2:25.35 7/16/2006 GREG SHAW
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Horner, Brad 55 WMAC 2:30.80 2:18.97N
31.18 1:05.97 (34.79)
1:42.11 (36.14) 2:18.97 (36.86)

And this reminds me, I've seen conflicts between the National and World records like this several times in the results. Can anyone explain why Lautman is listed as the WR holder even though Greg Shaw's time is faster?

aquageek
August 7th, 2009, 12:08 PM
Can anyone explain why Lautman is listed as the WR holder even though Greg Shaw's time is faster?

If FINA has anything to do with it, you can expect it to be hosed.

That's an awesome swim btw.

knelson
August 7th, 2009, 12:12 PM
Maybe Greg can answer the question since it's his record, but one thing that just crossed my mind is that perhaps his swim was done in a USA Swimming meet, so USMS recognizes it, but not FINA.

Yeah, great swim by Horner. I've never heard his name, but he's had a great meet so far. He swam a 2:08 200 free yesterday which was ten seconds under his seed.

gshaw
August 7th, 2009, 12:15 PM
Check out this swim.

Event 13 Men 55-59 200 LC Meter Butterfly
================================================== ================
Sponsor: Doug Miller
World: W 2:26.37 6/14/2008 SCOTT LAUTMAN, USA
NATL: N 2:25.35 7/16/2006 GREG SHAW
Name Age Team Seed Finals
================================================== ================
1 Horner, Brad 55 WMAC 2:30.80 2:18.97N
31.18 1:05.97 (34.79)
1:42.11 (36.14) 2:18.97 (36.86)

And this reminds me, I've seen conflicts between the National and World records like this several times in the results. Can anyone explain why Lautman is listed as the WR holder even though Greg Shaw's time is faster?

KirK,

I can explain it but it's all water under the bridge now. Congrats to Brad who completely blew away the national and world records! Wow. That is just a great time and I had no idea he was that fast. With Brad and Gary Hall in the 100 fly...I will be expecting both of them will break it (my only remaining LCM record...).

I swam my 200 fly in the Bay State Games in 2006. It was a great meet for me. In three days I set three world records: the 200 fly, the 100 fly, and the 200 IM. I felt pretty good about it but then at the end of the year I discovered that none of the times would count because that meet was "recognized" but not "sanctioned." WTF? I asked about it because in every other year the meet was sanctioned but the year I set the records it wasn't? Yep. Pissed me off but what can you do? I had set a world record in the Bay State Games in the 100 fly for 50-54 in 2003 or 2004 and it counted: 1:01.79. So, go figure. I am not the only person this has happened to. What irked me was that the meet for some reason was not sanctioned ONLY in the year I set those records, and the meet has been run the same way by the same people (fantastically I might add, by Rick Osterberg, who is the best I have seen running meets) for the last five years or so. C'est la vie.

Back to Brad Horner. As Cavic said to Phelps: "you're the MAN!"

ande
August 7th, 2009, 01:10 PM
here's another example

Event 13 Men 45-49 200 LC Meter Butterfly
World: W 2:06.94 8/9/2006 DENNIS BAKER, USA
NATL: N 2:04.07 7/19/2008 DENNIS BAKER

he did the nat record time in a USS meet that was not USMS sanctioned, so usms allows the time to be a NR but FINA doesn't allow the time to be a WR

ande
August 7th, 2009, 02:01 PM
I think It's OK to do an underwater lunge at the touch
below here's the backstroke rules I'll bold the section that might allow her to protest

ande

101.4 Backstroke from the USMS Rule book (http://www.usms.org/rules/part1.pdf)

101.4.1 Start—The backstroke start shall be used.

101.4.2 Stroke—Standing in or on the gutter, placing the toes above the lip of the gutter, or bending the toes over the lip of the gutter immediately after the start is not permitted. The swimmer shall push off on the back and continue swimming on the back throughout the race. Some part of the swimmer must break the surface of the water throughout the race, except it shall be permissible for the swimmer to be completely submerged during the turn, at the finish and for a distance of not more than 15 meters (16.4 yards) after the start and each turn. By that point, the head must have broken the surface of the water.

101.4.3 Turns—Upon completion of each length, some part of the swimmer must touch the wall. During the turn the shoulders may be turned past the vertical toward the breast, after which a continuous single arm pull or a continuous simultaneous double arm pull may be used to initiate the turn. Once the body has left the position on the back, any kick or arm pull must be part of the continuous turning action. The swimmer must have returned to a position on the back upon leaving the wall.
Note: The swimmer who turns past vertical and, in a continuous motion,
grabs the wall before pushing off with the feet while on the back is considered
to have executed a “continuous turning action.”

101.4.4 Finish—Upon the finish of the race, the swimmer must touch the wall while on the back. The body may be submerged at the touch.



Yes, past the 15m mark on the start (I took the same # of kicks as always but was slightly deeper than usual). I went 2:12.2 and was happy with the swim...other than that small little thing. :) First time I've been called on that; in fact, first time I've been DQ'd in over 20 years.

Actual words from the official afterward: "That was a great swim, congratulations! But I'm going to have to DQ you."

Coach Chris told me they also DQ'd one of his swimmers on her backstroke finish: submersing herself with one of those underwater lunges (which I've always hated). That's an unusual call, and a little hard to make.

TRYM_Swimmer
August 7th, 2009, 04:42 PM
I've always been really motivated by the get out swims at the end of workout so I told myself I could scratch the 200 fly if I broke 1:17.50 in the 100 BR-
1:16.83-best time in 11 yr(OK it was the suit,but still) and so no 200 fly:bliss:

Oh, Allen, you are the ButterFroggers of America poster boy! We're counting on you to show the way!

LOL

Allen Stark
August 7th, 2009, 09:31 PM
Oh, Allen, you are the ButterFroggers of America poster boy! We're counting on you to show the way!

LOL

I am swimming the 100 Fly after the 200 BR.If the 200 hurts as much as I fear it will the 100 may have lots of butterfrog

Muppet
August 8th, 2009, 09:58 AM
101.4.4 Finish—Upon the finish of the race, the swimmer must touch the wall while on the back. The body may be submerged at the touch.

According to the backstrokin' demon Blue Muppet, the way that rule is supposed to be interpreted is that if you go under and pop back up before you touch, you are to be DQ'd. At least that is how it is interpreted in USAS - and ours are probably interpreted in the same fashion.

Nevertheless, a tough call to make - it all happens so fast.

That Guy
August 8th, 2009, 11:26 AM
Forumites on record-setting 800 free relays today. Great job!

Event 21 Men 120-159 800 LC Meter Freestyle Relay
================================================== ==================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 8:13.69 11/8/2002 SF TSUNAMI
C CARLISLE, G GLASER, S ROBINSON, D VEATCH
Team Seed Finals
================================================== ==================
1 MICH 'A' 8:13.69 8:11.67N
1) Mull, Cameron S M33 2) Doak, Kevin M28
3) Saucedo, Patrick M M26 4) Mull, Alec M37
27.99 58.44 (58.44)
1:30.25 (1:30.25) 2:01.06 (2:01.06)
2:28.24 (27.18) 2:59.47 (58.41)
3:33.61 (1:32.55) 4:08.19 (2:07.13)
4:36.12 (27.93) 5:07.09 (58.90)
5:39.14 (1:30.95) 6:10.07 (2:01.88)
6:37.53 (27.46) 7:08.10 (58.03)
7:39.92 (1:29.85) 8:11.67 (2:01.60)

Event 21 Men 200-239 800 LC Meter Freestyle Relay
================================================== ==================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 8:53.73 8/19/2007 N CAROLINA
J KLEIN, R SCHMITZ, J RHYNE, P HOLLETT
Team Seed Finals
================================================== ==================
1 ARIZ 'A' 8:45.00 8:45.06N
1) Roth, Barry M55 2) Krongaard, Jeffrey S M55
3) Shake, Scott D M51 4) Dickson, Kurt F M42
31.56 1:05.37 (1:05.37)
1:39.45 (1:39.45) 2:13.65 (2:13.65)
2:45.27 (31.62) 3:19.44 (1:05.79)
3:54.08 (1:40.43) 4:28.71 (2:15.06)
4:59.69 (30.98) 5:33.37 (1:04.66)
6:07.55 (1:38.84) 6:39.54 (2:10.83)
7:08.97 (29.43) 7:41.08 (1:01.54)
8:13.67 (1:34.13) 8:45.06 (2:05.52)

Event 22 Women 160-199 800 LC Meter Freestyle Relay
================================================== ==================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 9:51.60 6/4/2006 MOST
A BREWER, S INGRAHAM, T ELIAS, E FINCHAM
Team Seed Finals
================================================== ==================
1 MVN 'A' 9:36.00 9:36.88N
1) Olsen, Rebekah W29 2) Sorenson, T J W43
3) Osborn, Ahelee Sue M W51 4) Richell, Kelly A W44
31.84 1:05.16 (1:05.16)
1:40.75 (1:40.75) 2:16.75 (2:16.75)
2:49.22 (32.47) 3:24.69 (1:07.94)
4:02.21 (1:45.46) 4:41.00 (2:24.25)
5:13.83 (32.83) 5:50.47 (1:09.47)
6:29.28 (1:48.28) 7:08.58 (2:27.58)
7:43.46 (34.88) 8:20.63 (1:12.05)
8:58.66 (1:50.08) 9:36.88 (2:28.30)

That Guy
August 8th, 2009, 11:31 AM
And a 400 medley relay...

Event 23 Men 120-159 400 LC Meter Medley Relay
================================================== ==================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 4:04.49 5/29/1994 THE OLYMPIC CLB
S MURPHY, S CORLISS, D LUNDBERG, M KECK
Team Seed Finals
================================================== ==================
1 MICH 'A' 4:04.49 4:00.06N
1) Doak, Kevin M28 2) Saucedo, Patrick M M26
3) Mull, Cameron S M33 4) Mull, Alec M37
28.17 1:00.13 (1:00.13)
1:31.62 (31.49) 2:08.96 (1:08.83)
2:36.12 (27.16) 3:06.77 (57.81)
3:31.61 (24.84) 4:00.06 (53.29)

knelson
August 8th, 2009, 12:55 PM
Looks like Kevin Doak carried the ole Steinway on the second 100 of his 800 free relay leg!

That Guy
August 8th, 2009, 02:13 PM
Perhaps, but that relay foursome keeps on rolling...

Event 31 Men 120-159 400 LC Meter Freestyle Relay
================================================== ==================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Inciana
NATL: N 3:39.60 7/3/2005 TYR
R SAEGER, B HIBBARD, M RUFFNER, D WEGNER
Team Seed Finals
================================================== ==================
1 MICH 'A' 3:39.60 3:34.83N
1) Doak, Kevin M28 2) Mull, Alec M37
3) Mull, Cameron S M33 4) Saucedo, Patrick M M26
25.32 54.12 (54.12)
1:19.58 (25.46) 1:47.80 (53.68)
2:13.55 (25.75) 2:41.21 (53.41)
3:06.52 (25.31) 3:34.83 (53.62)

That Guy
August 8th, 2009, 04:16 PM
...and rolling!

Event 37 Men 120-159 200 LC Meter Medley Relay
================================================== ==================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
World: W 1:46.33 3/7/2009 JAC MORIYA -JPN
S ADACHI, Y KUSUDA, S SUGIMOTO, Y OKADA
NATL: N 1:48.58 8/8/2006 TEAM TYR
J COMMINGS, M RUFFNER, B HIBBARD, M EISENHUTH
Team Seed Finals
================================================== ==================
1 MICH 'A' 1:48.58 1:46.23W
1) Doak, Kevin M28 2) Saucedo, Patrick M M26
3) Mull, Cameron S M33 4) Mull, Alec M37
26.64 56.55 (29.91)
1:22.50 (25.95) 1:46.23 (23.73)

knelson
August 8th, 2009, 05:28 PM
Yeah, some great relays by those guys. I swam with the Mulls growing up in Lansing, Michigan. Alec swam with me at Michigan State. Cameron swam at Ohio State. There's a third brother, Iian, who's probably the best swimmer of the three (was third in the 400 IM at Olympic Trials in 1996). I know Alec tried to get Iiian to swim, but Iian wasn't quite ready to return to the pool this summer.

Pretty well matched team on that 400 free relay. Taking the flat start into account for the leadoff, they all swam within a couple tenths of each other!

That Guy
August 8th, 2009, 06:53 PM
Another forumite on a record-setting relay. Great job!

Event 39 Mixed 160-199 400 LC Meter Medley Relay
================================================== ==================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 4:41.21 8/18/1997 TEAM ORLANDO
C SHONKWILER, C MILTENBERGER, R SEAMAN, L MEISENHE
Team Seed Finals
================================================== ==================
1 NCMS 'A' 4:31.00 4:27.97N
1) Braun, Erika L W37 2) Butcher, Rob M37
3) Rhyne, Joseph M M51 4) Rohner, Patricia A W50
33.33 1:09.89 (1:09.89)
1:40.54 (30.65) 2:17.26 (1:07.37)
2:45.58 (28.32) 3:18.40 (1:01.14)
3:51.66 (33.26) 4:27.97 (1:09.57)

Jeff Commings
August 8th, 2009, 08:06 PM
...and rolling!

Event 37 Men 120-159 200 LC Meter Medley Relay
================================================== ==================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
World: W 1:46.33 3/7/2009 JAC MORIYA -JPN
S ADACHI, Y KUSUDA, S SUGIMOTO, Y OKADA
NATL: N 1:48.58 8/8/2006 TEAM TYR
J COMMINGS, M RUFFNER, B HIBBARD, M EISENHUTH
Team Seed Finals
================================================== ==================
1 MICH 'A' 1:48.58 1:46.23W
1) Doak, Kevin M28 2) Saucedo, Patrick M M26
3) Mull, Cameron S M33 4) Mull, Alec M37
26.64 56.55 (29.91)
1:22.50 (25.95) 1:46.23 (23.73)


I should have known that once Kevin Doak took off on the backstroke leg, I would lose my only national relay record. I swam backstroke on this relay at worlds and went 28.1. I think the other splits were just a hair faster than ours.

Good job to Team Michigan on all the relays. I too know the Mull brothers, and thought Iian would have joined them for one meet.

tjrpatt
August 8th, 2009, 09:15 PM
I think that they should have relay day on the first or last day of the event just like the distance events. Or, merge the distance events and relays. 1500, then relays one day. 800, relays on another. I don't mind having a day off but for relay days, give me a break.

knelson
August 8th, 2009, 09:49 PM
I'm not sure they've ever done a relay day at Nationals before. At most Nationals, short or long course, the relays are at the ends of the day Friday, Saturday and Sunday and only the 200 relays are offered. At Worlds they do have a relay day, but again it's only the 200 meter events. The first Nationals I went to was in 2003, so I can't really speak for anything before then. I think the Indy meet organizers thought offering every relay would be a good way to attract some swimmers who might not otherwise attend. A five day meet is awfully long, though. Anyone traveling from a decent distance would probably need to take four days off from work if they wanted to swim every day of the meet.

KEWebb18
August 8th, 2009, 09:58 PM
I agree that it does make for a long meet. That was part of the reasons that I didn't go; it didn't make sense for me to swim 3 different events on 3 different days and have to wait a day.

I can't wait for tomorrow's fast events!!!

Ahelee Sue Osborn
August 8th, 2009, 10:20 PM
Hey! Are you here in INDY?
Cause if you were, you probably know - or would have seen that relay day is pretty darn fun - and a lot of swimmers enjoyed it!

If relay day were located on the 1st or last day it would not be nearly as well attended as it was today.
USA teams took back many World records - and several National records were set as well.

I agree with the dilemma over the long distance events. Kind of like the idea of relays attached to a distance event too.
But how can you plan a timeline when relay entries can't be submitted until the last minute? A day like that could go until late in the night.

But I'm sure various committees would appreciate hearing our constructive suggestions for improving the National Championships if they serve all the membership.
Sure is hard to please everyone...

Donna
August 8th, 2009, 10:25 PM
Relay day was fun and it actually was nice breaking up the meet this way. It gave those who did not participate a day off to recover and those who did had a great time.

It was also great to be able to swim 400 and 800 relays for once. I did 2 of each and no 200 relays. Nice change of pace.

orca1946
August 8th, 2009, 10:32 PM
We can all do a 50, try some new & harder events once in a while, it does the ego good to get dented every so often.

tjrpatt
August 8th, 2009, 10:39 PM
Hey! Are you here in INDY?
Cause if you were, you probably know - or would have seen that relay day is pretty darn fun - and a lot of swimmers enjoyed it!

If relay day were located on the 1st or last day it would not be nearly as well attended as it was today.
USA teams took back many World records - and several National records were set as well.

I agree with the dilemma over the long distance events. Kind of like the idea of relays attached to a distance event too.
But how can you plan a timeline when relay entries can't be submitted until the last minute? A day like that could go until late in the night.

But I'm sure various committees would appreciate hearing our constructive suggestions for improving the National Championships if they serve all the membership.
Sure is hard to please everyone...

Yes, I am in Indy.

I think that you can plan it based on teams with large number of participants or average relay participants from previous years maybe. Also, this meet is getting done way before dinner time so I don't think that we have to worry about the meet running late into the night. But, this was a good centalized location to have nationals since Clovis was many light years away for some of us East Coasters.

ehoch
August 8th, 2009, 10:40 PM
The "new record" in the 800 relay is 8:03 - sorry to spoil one of them ...but the Medley records are very impressive.


Forumites on record-setting 800 free relays today. Great job!

Event 21 Men 120-159 800 LC Meter Freestyle Relay
================================================== ==================
Sponsor: Merchants National Bank of Indiana
NATL: N 8:13.69 11/8/2002 SF TSUNAMI
C CARLISLE, G GLASER, S ROBINSON, D VEATCH
Team Seed Finals
================================================== ==================
1 MICH 'A' 8:13.69 8:11.67N
1) Mull, Cameron S M33 2) Doak, Kevin M28
3) Saucedo, Patrick M M26 4) Mull, Alec M37
27.99 58.44 (58.44)
1:30.25 (1:30.25) 2:01.06 (2:01.06)
2:28.24 (27.18) 2:59.47 (58.41)
3:33.61 (1:32.55) 4:08.19 (2:07.13)
4:36.12 (27.93) 5:07.09 (58.90)
5:39.14 (1:30.95) 6:10.07 (2:01.88)
6:37.53 (27.46) 7:08.10 (58.03)
7:39.92 (1:29.85) 8:11.67 (2:01.60)

Ahelee Sue Osborn
August 8th, 2009, 10:57 PM
Anyone have any good photos from INDY??

I shot a few with my lame little broken down camera.
Jimby appears somehow in 75% of them!

Guess shooting inside won't create some of the gorgeous shots we had in California, but here are some for the record anyway!

If you aren't here... we miss you!

Ahelee Sue Osborn
August 8th, 2009, 11:04 PM
Here he is again...

Red60
August 9th, 2009, 12:30 AM
I swam two days in Indy, including relay day today. Swam the 100 free (first time LC) yesterday. Today I swam three relays. Our team entered 25 relay events. It was a great team-building thing.

For whatever it's worth, I would not have chosen to participate but for the relay opportunities. I helped score points for my team and got a bunch of great experience in a fantastic facility among talented swimmers. I would do it again for sure. From my perspective relay day was a brilliant idea.

Perhaps there is a tension (not to be reconciled) between what makes a great championship meet for elite competitors and what grows participation in the event and creates more buy-in for Masters competition more broadly. This meet accomplished the latter for me.

knelson
August 9th, 2009, 01:55 AM
But, this was a good centalized location to have nationals since Clovis was many light years away for some of us East Coasters.

You drove to Indy, right? So you've probably got a day of driving to and from the meet. If you went to Clovis you'd have a day of flying on each end. In terms of travel time it's probably a wash.

ViveBene
August 9th, 2009, 07:24 AM
Anyone have any good photos from INDY??
I shot a few with my lame little broken down camera. <snip>


Thanks for the pictures! Got any of the drunken orgies that followed?




I helped score points for my team and got a bunch of great experience in a fantastic facility among talented swimmers. I would do it again for sure. From my perspective relay day was a brilliant idea.

Perhaps there is a tension (not to be reconciled) between what makes a great championship meet for elite competitors and what grows participation in the event and creates more buy-in for Masters competition more broadly. This meet accomplished the latter for me.

That might be the only rational way for me to participate. Thanks for posting your experience.

tjrpatt
August 9th, 2009, 10:12 AM
You drove to Indy, right? So you've probably got a day of driving to and from the meet. If you went to Clovis you'd have a day of flying on each end. In terms of travel time it's probably a wash.

Correct. I drove Tuesday since I would be stiff for the 400 IM and I am leaving Tuesday because I do not want to drive home after the 1500. It was 10 hours from Philly. My teammate had 16 from Altantic City because it got stuck in traffic in Phillly and Pittsburgh.

KEWebb18
August 9th, 2009, 11:17 AM
Hey! Are you here in INDY?
Cause if you were, you probably know - or would have seen that relay day is pretty darn fun - and a lot of swimmers enjoyed it!

If relay day were located on the 1st or last day it would not be nearly as well attended as it was today.
USA teams took back many World records - and several National records were set as well.

I agree with the dilemma over the long distance events. Kind of like the idea of relays attached to a distance event too.
But how can you plan a timeline when relay entries can't be submitted until the last minute? A day like that could go until late in the night.

But I'm sure various committees would appreciate hearing our constructive suggestions for improving the National Championships if they serve all the membership.
Sure is hard to please everyone...

No I am not in Indy, because I could not take the time off of work to travel and swim 3 events and possibly a relay or 2. I AM glad that the relays were well attended. I understand that it is impossible to please everyone.

BTW Ahelee...you had some great times from what I see in the results! Good luck with the rest of your swims!

ehoch
August 9th, 2009, 03:41 PM
1 Ross, Michael S 41 MESC 2:17.50 2:15.75
26.49 58.44 (31.95)
1:40.70 (42.26) 2:15.75 (35.05)

Ouch - I can feel for a fellow Breaststroke disabled swimmer :badday:

knelson
August 9th, 2009, 03:52 PM
Mike may have been a tad aggressive on the first half...

You know what's been good to see in the Indy results? The number of young bucks there swimming fast. Check out this result from the men's 18-24 100 fly:

1 Korotkin, Jason T 23 UNAT 58.80 57.53
27.68 57.53 (29.85)
2 Fisher, Zachary A 23 CSMT 58.20 58.82
27.22 58.82 (31.60)
3 Ortiz, Daniel 22 MIL 1:01.84 59.09
27.79 59.09 (31.30)
4 Sivak, David 20 FLAQ 59.33 59.12
27.29 59.12 (31.83)
5 Galvan-Sarabia, Luis 24 FLAQ 59.99 59.26
27.05 59.26 (32.21)
6 Perfanov, Val 24 PAFC 1:01.62 59.68
27.45 59.68 (32.23)

Six guys under 1:00 is pretty good. There's usually a couple fast swimmers in 18-24, but lots of times not much depth.

ehoch
August 9th, 2009, 04:44 PM
Good point with the young guys ...

All the more reason to finally do the seeding regardless of age group. Or at least give people the OPTION on the entry card >> "seeded Open" or "seeded by age group".

pwolf66
August 9th, 2009, 05:16 PM
1 Ross, Michael S 41 MESC 2:17.50 2:15.75
26.49 58.44 (31.95)
1:40.70 (42.26) 2:15.75 (35.05)

Ouch - I can feel for a fellow Breaststroke disabled swimmer :badday:

Tuchler was breathing down his neck on this one. It made me feel better about Mike because he was sure looking like a Stepford swimmer lately. Watching him actually prove to be human (albeit a much superior one than me) and lug a piano on the Free leg helped to disprove the Stepford swimmer idea.

Allen Stark
August 9th, 2009, 05:30 PM
I talked to several swimmers who felt relay day hurt their Sun performances.Swimming all the distances was a good idea and I don't have a better one,but if swimming 4 relays,especially if one was a 800 is a killer.

pwolf66
August 9th, 2009, 05:45 PM
Is there ever going to be a Nationals line up that has the 50 Free on the FIRST day? Puh-leeze?

jim clemmons
August 9th, 2009, 06:35 PM
Is there ever going to be a Nationals line up that has the 50 Free on the FIRST day? Puh-leeze?

Hey Paul,

FIRST day (in theory) is distance day, dude. According to the meet rules, 104.5.2, SC Nat's in 2011 will have 50 free on the second day, which is first day for you until you start swimming an 800lc, 1500lc, 1000sc, or 1650sc :). They must have made a lineup adjustment that moved the 50 due to relay day and distance day at the end at Indy that changed the lineup 'cause it was scheduled for the second day (day after dist day) as well.

Go to part 1, Swimming Rules, page 29 for the schedule of linups based on course, http://www.usms.org/rules/

pwb
August 9th, 2009, 08:08 PM
All the more reason to finally do the seeding regardless of age group. Or at least give people the OPTION on the entry card >> "seeded Open" or "seeded by age group".

Agreed ... with the exception of the distance events, that's one of the benefits of the regional meets versus Nationals

tjrpatt
August 9th, 2009, 08:26 PM
Agreed ... with the exception of the distance events, that's one of the benefits of the regional meets versus Nationals


I have to say that I did feel more comfortable in merge events than age group heats. I was lucky to have a strong field in my 200 fly but what if the people in my heat were so close together.

Chris Stevenson
August 10th, 2009, 03:15 AM
I'm not sure they've ever done a relay day at Nationals before.

I was not at all fan of the relay day. I don't like the extra day, which is expensive and a hassle (and tiring to do four relays). And how about those on v small teams who can't field relays? I think some of them just left and skpped the Sunday events.

BTW I noticed a LOT of empty lanes in races on Sunday. The heat before me in 100 fly had only TWO swimmers out of eight who showed up. Coincidence? I don' know.

As far as doing the "extra" relays (400s and 800s), I would rather do them at Zones when we have many more teammates on hand so we can put together better relays.

Nice to experiment but I hope they don't do it again.

swoomer
August 10th, 2009, 08:21 AM
I thought the relays were great fun but it would have been better to have them follow the individual events. After 450m of fast swimming on Saturday, I wasn't at my best on Sunday. In this case, I definitely took one for the team.

Allen Stark
August 10th, 2009, 10:19 AM
I was talking to some more swimmers who liked the relay say in concept but not in application(adding an extra day to the meet and leaving people exhausted for Sun.)One idea was have relay day the last day,that way if you couldn't afford the extra day you could leave and they wouldn't mess up individual events.Also if you had some friends for who wanted to swim only relays they could just drop in for the last day.

ande
August 10th, 2009, 10:27 AM
that seems truly agonizing 58.44 1:17.31
that is a very wide split difference
bet he could have easily given up 4 or 5 seconds on the 1st 100 & gained 7 or 8 on the 2nd

1 Ross, Michael S 41 MESC 2:17.50 2:15.75
26.49 58.44 (31.95) 1:40.70 (42.26) 2:15.75 (35.05)
Ouch - I can feel for a fellow Breaststroke disabled swimmer :badday:

The Fortress
August 10th, 2009, 01:21 PM
Anyone have any good photos from INDY??

I shot a few with my lame little broken down camera.
Jimby appears somehow in 75% of them!

Guess shooting inside won't create some of the gorgeous shots we had in California, but here are some for the record anyway!

If you aren't here... we miss you!

I have loads of photos. I like this one, Ahelee! And who can get over the fact that Eney actually gave me an engraved spit cup!

Jeff Commings
August 10th, 2009, 01:34 PM
1 Ross, Michael S 41 MESC 2:17.50 2:15.75
26.49 58.44 (31.95)
1:40.70 (42.26) 2:15.75 (35.05)

Ouch - I can feel for a fellow Breaststroke disabled swimmer :badday:

These are the kinds of swimmers I love racing! Let them wear themselves out in the opening half then reel them in.

Mike should come to Long Beach this December and race Erik and me in the IMs.

knelson
August 10th, 2009, 05:19 PM
I noticed Ion Beza swam. I haven't seen him in a few years. Anyone talk to him?

ALM
August 11th, 2009, 04:31 PM
1 Ross, Michael S 41 MESC 2:17.50 2:15.75
26.49 58.44 (31.95)
1:40.70 (42.26) 2:15.75 (35.05)

Ouch - I can feel for a fellow Breaststroke disabled swimmer :badday:

Overheard by my hubby after that race, as Ross laid on the deck:

Tuchler: "So, were you really dying, or were you just f***ing with me?"

jim thornton
August 11th, 2009, 04:44 PM
I noticed Ion Beza swam. I haven't seen him in a few years. Anyone talk to him?

I talked to him after he finished one of his races. Perhaps my hearing is getting worse, but his accent seemed much more pronounced that it did when I last saw him in Cleveland six years ago. He looks good but, perhaps somewhat predictably, was not all that happy about his swimming performance.

When I suggested he get a B70 or something akin to it, he shook his head and said that he wants to judge himself against himself consistently.

I could not tell if he had taken my recommendation to try Prozac. I always suspected he might have a touch of remediable swimming obsessionality; the same aflliction in those whose times are perhaps a little closer to national caliber times, seem often be overlooked, excused, and sometimes even admired.

Not so for the likes of Ion.

Or me, for that matter.

I say: let Ion back on these forums if he will have us! We have much to learn from him.

gull
August 11th, 2009, 04:49 PM
I could not tell if he had taken my recommendation to try Prozac.

I thought swimming was your Prozac.

aquageek
August 11th, 2009, 04:58 PM
I say: let Ion back on these forums if he will have us! We have much to learn from him.

Can we put that up for a vote?

waves101
August 11th, 2009, 06:09 PM
I enjoyed relay day despite swimming in the first event of the day and the last (including 2 in the middle). Sunday I did hurt but it wasn't until the 90 meter mark of the 100 fly. I also enjoyed meeting fellow forumites (Paul and Ahelee) and seeing great swims by Chris, Allen and others. 9 events still has me walking a little funny today but I'll heal. Congrats to all. Looking forward to Atlanta in the spring.

Peter Cruise
August 11th, 2009, 08:09 PM
As far as I know, Ion is not actually banned.

That Guy
August 11th, 2009, 10:30 PM
Overheard by my hubby after that race, as Ross laid on the deck:

Tuchler: "So, were you really dying, or were you just f***ing with me?"

:lmao:

tjrpatt
August 11th, 2009, 11:31 PM
I have to say that Nationals was very exhausting. I hope to do Altanta but highly doubt that I will do P.R. Great time in Indy though. Great pool. Nice people. Fast times. What more could you ask for?

matysekj
August 12th, 2009, 12:13 AM
What more could you ask for?

A nearby beach? (Puerto Rico)

The Fortress
August 12th, 2009, 09:32 AM
As far as I know, Ion is not actually banned.

Apparently we only care whether he was wearing a tech suit ...

Ahelee Sue Osborn
August 12th, 2009, 07:49 PM
I enjoyed relay day despite swimming in the first event of the day and the last (including 2 in the middle). Sunday I did hurt but it wasn't until the 90 meter mark of the 100 fly. I also enjoyed meeting fellow forumites (Paul and Ahelee) and seeing great swims by Chris, Allen and others. 9 events still has me walking a little funny today but I'll heal. Congrats to all. Looking forward to Atlanta in the spring.

I would have figured out who you were so much easier Jeff had you told me you were the forumite with the "finish kiss from his curley haired child" profile photo!

I LOVED RELAY DAY!
So did maybe 90% of the swimmers I spoke to afterwards.

I was tired at the end on Saturday. I think I actually stayed in and rested that night.
Friday and Saturday at the end of the meet the pool was open for swimming. I was one of the last swimmers out of the pool at closing. (Thanks Indy SwimFit for keeping it open an hour after the meet ended!)
By Sunday I felt back to normal.
Totally worth it!

A story I heard several times over, even outside my own team, was about swimmers planning and training together to go to INDY to swim club relays.
That goal kept them on track to get to the meet when life tried to get in the way with distractions.

I appreciate the flexibility of the USMS to try out different scenarios.
But like I said before, it sure is hard to please everyone!

jim thornton
August 13th, 2009, 09:54 AM
I too liked relay day. My friend Bill and I tried to recruit two more swimmers from our ENTIRE REGION to come swim relays, but we had no luck.

Thus, we became Academy Bullet Carpetbaggers and met some of the nicest people between Beloit and Gary. It was fantastic.

We even took war brides. At least in our imaginations.

In any event, here is another aspect of relay day to add to the mix of opinions.

For many of us on-the-cusp-of-mediocrity swimmers, our major opportunity to make the Top 10 occurs in the first year or two of aging up. This was my third year in my ridiculously difficult age group (I know, everybody SAYS there's is the hardest, but really, mine is the hardest.) If I squeaked into the Top 10 in anything, it will be a total fluke. However, the relays gave me a sense of having a chance!

We were, in fact, national champions in the mixed freestyle relay for 189 or the 200 meters! Nobody will ever be able to take my 94.5 percent National Championship away from me!

There are two aspects to relays that are particularly attractive to guys like me:



It gives us the opportunity to benefit from the efforts of our betters. In the above particular case, for instance, I was able to swim with the legendary Leslie The Fortress Livingston. How I could cajole myself onto a relay with the likes of Leslie, I cannot divulge, because if anyone could do it, I am convinced everyone would do it, and my chance of repeating as a 94.5 percent National Champion would plummet. However, the bottom line here is that when it comes to relays, you don't have to be a great swimmer--you just need to shmooze great swimmers to be part of greatness.
My teammates always accuse me of leaving too early in practice sets. Except for the person leading off a relay, going close to too early is a good thing. I would argue that my best swimming event is a relay precisely because I so regularly practice leaving as quickly as I can get away with.


If relay day becomes a staple of national meets, and if I can line up the likes of Leslie for future relay efforts, I would be more likely to attend meets in the waning years of my age group dotage--years when greatness on the individual level becomes impossible, but greatness by standing on the shoulders of my superiors remains distinctly achievable.

And on this final note, please let me quickly say to my Entourage buddies, Michael "Vince" Ross, Mike "E" Schmidt, and Hodding "Turtle" Carter Jr.: Could you please send me the forms necessary for joining Maine Masters? Your older, less talented brother, Jimmy "Drama" Thornton, is looking forward to our relay at SCM this December!

Brad Horner
August 14th, 2009, 03:19 PM
Greg- Thanks for the nice words. Your 100 fly record still stands. It is really fast! I went 1:01.8 at Indy. Partly hoping Gary Hall would show up for it, partly not! He would have probably gone out faster than I ever could and it would have been interesting the last length.

I got first hand experience with FINA and USMS rules a week before masters nationals. I went .6 secs faster in the 200 fly (2.18.3) at a USA Swimming meet than I did at masters nationals. The meet officials showed me the official FINA and USMS record applications form. I found out that:
- FINA never recognizes masters records set in a USA Swimming meet. Except if it is co-sanctioned with USMS I suppose.
- USMS recognizes records set in a USA Swimming meet under certain conditions including IF the pool is recertified for length before the end of day (applies to bulkhead pools only). USA Swimming does not require this for a record to count if the pool is already certified (such has having a lockable bulkhead at distance). The pool I swam in is in fact USA Swimming certified but no go since the certifying engineer couldn't be reached that day.

Very happy with masters nationals. I had no idea what to expect from a taper since I hadn't trained hard, tapered or done a good meet since world championships in Munich in 2000. Wish I hadn't been such a wimp in the 200 free (negative split).

Chris Stevenson
August 14th, 2009, 04:02 PM
USMS does not impose any additional rules for USS meets: they are exactlyu the same as for USMS meets. Abd they apply for Top Ten submission as well as record applications.

But at USMS meets the meet director and the TT recorder (usually) take care of everything for you.

gshaw
August 14th, 2009, 04:38 PM
Very happy with masters nationals. I had no idea what to expect from a taper since I hadn't trained hard, tapered or done a good meet since world championships in Munich in 2000. Wish I hadn't been such a wimp in the 200 free (negative split).


Brad, you should be happy. That was an incredible meet and your 2:08 200 negative split is impressive. Yeah, maybe you had a 2:05 or better in you. Too bad about not getting the faster 200 fly time on the books. Seven seconds is a big drop though, and it will be tough to break that record. What's great about masters swimming is that guys you didn't know about get in good shape and end up swimming really fast, break records, etc. I tell you, when I saw 2:18 for your 200 fly I was floored and honestly, if you're going to break my record I would rather that you crush it. You did.

As regards the problem with the paper work needed to have our swims recognized...it seems hard enough just to do what you did; then to have to muster all the different people together, gather forms, etc. just to have the damn swim recognized....it seems like too much to ask. Wish it was set up in an easier way. I once had a national record swim go unrecognized because the meet director didn't even send it in. It's uncomfortable to be in the situation of having to pester people to do the paper work, but that's the way it is.

Betsy
August 15th, 2009, 08:37 AM
Brad,
For future reference, the pool does not have to be measured by an engineer. Anyone can measure it with a steel tape. Our team (or LMSC) has purchased them to certify our pools. It's not the sort of thing you usually carry in your swim bag, but if you are near a record, you might consider borrowing one.

tjrpatt
August 15th, 2009, 10:49 AM
Make sure you get noodles and cut them into smaller pieces because it makes measuring the pool so much easier. Also, you will need a helper so hopefully, an official or aquatic staff can help you.

Brad Horner
August 16th, 2009, 11:26 AM
Distance Man- Great pic. Did you hire a helicopter to take it? Pics taken of me all make me look like an old guy swimming butterly (which I am of course but the pic doesn't need to reflect that! So distance away is good)

tjrpatt
August 16th, 2009, 11:56 AM
Distance Man- Great pic. Did you hire a helicopter to take it? Pics taken of me all make me look like an old guy swimming butterly (which I am of course but the pic doesn't need to reflect that! So distance away is good)

This is a pic of Phelps that I found on google. I can only dream of having this kind of wingspan. Mine are the T-Rex like compared to Phelps. I eventually have to get more of me taken in the pool. I really don't my terrestrial pics

Chicken of the Sea
August 21st, 2009, 08:01 PM
I've been waiting a while but it looks like they're not separating the wetsuits from real swimmers in the long course nats results. Oh well.