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rtodd
August 4th, 2009, 06:25 PM
What will Master's do about this?





PRESS RELEASE
N°58/2009


FINA BUREAU MEETING
Rome (ITA) - July 28, 2009

Rome (ITA), July 28, 2009 – On its first meeting held today in Rome (ITA), the 2009-2013 FINA Bureau fully complied with the decision of the FINA Congress, held on July 24, 2009 related with the procedure concerning swimwear approval. As it was also decided by the Congress, these rules are now By-Laws rules, which allow the Bureau to further control, update and correct any deviation to the process or to proceed with any necessary adjustment related to the development of the swimsuit technology.

The FINA Bureau decisions on swimsuits include:

MATERIAL – The material of the swimsuits will definitively be constituted only by textile fabric(s). The definition of “textile” will be made by a group of scientific experts chosen by FINA and led by Prof. Jan-Anders Manson, from the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (EPFL) in Lausanne (SUI). This definition will be available to manufacturers by no later than September 30, 2009. The first definition of “textile” to be further confirmed by this group is: “Material consisting of, natural and/or synthetic, individual and non consolidated yarns used to constitute a fabric by weaving, knitting, and/or braiding.”

SHAPE – For men, the swimsuit shall not extend above the navel nor below the knee, and for women, shall not cover the neck, extend past the shoulder, nor extend below knee. Furthermore, no zippers or other fastening system is allowed.

USE – In the regulation approved by the Congress, the swimmer can only wear one swimsuit and no taping is allowed.

TESTS – Only measurable scientific tests will be performed within the frame of the swimwear approval procedure. For thickness, the 1mm limit will be adjusted to 0.8mm, for buoyancy the present value of 1 Newton will be reduced to 0.5 (FINA will even consider the limit of 0 Newton), and for permeability the material(s) used must have at any point a value of more than 80l/m2/second. Permeability values are measured on material with a standard multidirectional stretch of 25%. These parameters will be further considered by the above mentioned scientific group.

CONSISTENCY – Swimsuits effectively manufactured and used shall correspond to and be fully consistent with submitted samples. Any modification before use (including impregnation) is prohibited. Moreover, there shall be no variation/modification for individual swimmers.

APPLICATION – Considering the time needed for manufacturers to produce their swimsuits, the submission dates and the implementation of the rules are applicable from 2010 only in Swimming competitions.

In addition to these decisions, the FINA Bureau also approved the new FINA Committees and Commissions for the period 2009-2013.

Finally, it was also established that the Diving Qualification event for the 1st Youth Olympic Games (August 2010 in Singapore) will be held in Mexico City (MEX), in April 2010.

FINA Communications Department • Tel.: (41-21) 310 4710 • Fax: (41-21) 312 6610 • www.fina.org

ALM
August 4th, 2009, 06:55 PM
Furthermore, no zippers or other fastening system is allowed.

Darn. My $12.00 bargain TYR Aquapel just became illegal.

orca1946
August 4th, 2009, 07:27 PM
Thank goodness I just returned the FS II :applaud:

The Fortress
August 4th, 2009, 07:49 PM
What will Master's do about this?

Wait to see whether FINA says this applies to us?

KEWebb18
August 4th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Masters swimming will likely not make a decision just yet. You can probably wear your suits until they adopt any new rules.

Jazz Hands
August 4th, 2009, 07:53 PM
This is a week old...

rtodd
August 4th, 2009, 08:59 PM
Wait to see whether FINA says this applies to us?


It's up to them?

orca1946
August 4th, 2009, 10:38 PM
FINA & NCAA have done something , how far away will masters be ?

ced357
August 5th, 2009, 01:08 AM
When will we know what the USMS rules will be?

Rykno
August 5th, 2009, 01:39 AM
according to Swedish Masters Swimming chairman there are not two set of rules.

so unless FINA makes expections to the rules for Masters swimming, I would assume that Worlds in Aug 2010 will be swum with the same FINA rules regarding suits.

thewookiee
August 5th, 2009, 08:12 AM
according to Swedish Masters Swimming chairman there are not two set of rules.

so unless FINA makes expections to the rules for Masters swimming, I would assume that Worlds in Aug 2010 will be swum with the same FINA rules regarding suits.

That's not entirely true. Back in May when the first ruling on suits came out, a member of the FINA bureau said the suit rulings didn't apply to masters.

USMS and other masters organizations are probably waiting until they hear something official from FINA about how the rulings apply to masters before making anything public.

The NCAA doesn't have to follow FINA guidelines if it doesn't want to about suits but it will since USA swimming is following the suit rules, so that swimmers at college meets could be given credit for U.S. Open and/or American records that maybe achieved during NCAA meets.

quicksilver
August 5th, 2009, 10:17 AM
What will Master's do about this?

You would think that masters will follow the same route.


Although the percentage is very few...for those who make top ten FINA times, (performed at a masters meet)...there will be much confusion in ascertaining that the swim was done without the tech suit.

How would meet organizers or officials keep tabs on who swam their time and with what kind of suit?
It may be way too confusing.

Redbird Alum
August 5th, 2009, 10:30 AM
USMS will follow suit, otherwise elite Masters' performances at USMS sanctioned meets become less relevant on the World stage, unless USMS implements a suit testing policy at each event.

I do have a question about the "no fastening device" ruling... would that include the tie string in men's briefs?

BillS
August 5th, 2009, 12:37 PM
From a prior post in another thread:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Originally Posted by The Fortress
Perhaps USMS is waiting for FINA to make a(nother) statement about the applicability of its ban to masters?

Exactly. Kathy Casey posted this over on the Nationals forum:




Regarding the FINA swimsuit rules, the FINA Executive Director and one of the FINA Masters Technical Commission members said those were not meant for Masters. However, we are waiting to hear an official statement from the FINA Masters Technical Committee as a whole about how these swimwear rules impact Masters.
__________________
Kathy Casey

I think USMS should do what the NCAA just did: Screw FINA, and adopt its own rule. With the possible exception of the permeability standard (who cares whether jammers are permeable anyway?) the NCAA rule looks pretty easy to implement and judge.

At this point, I no longer care what rule USMS adopts, but I see no reason to wait around while FINA stumbles and bumbles along.

Regarding the tie string, the NCAA rule allows it:


The swimsuit shall not have any zippers or fasteners other than a waist tie for a brief or a jammer.

scyfreestyler
August 5th, 2009, 12:44 PM
If you are not going to comply specifically with FINA's rule, why bother in the first place?

thewookiee
August 5th, 2009, 12:51 PM
If you are not going to comply specifically with FINA's rule, why bother in the first place?

FINA may make an exempation for master swimmers. They may allow masters to wear bodysuits because of some of the previous issues people have talked about in regards to older swimmers bodies.

If FINA exempts masters from the new rulings, then usms and other masters groups aren't ignoring FINA's rules.

Allen Stark
August 5th, 2009, 12:55 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if FINA said these rules didn't apply to Masters.Of course there is almost nothing FINA could do now that would surprise me.I suspect that USMS will wait for the FINA Masters Technical committee to make an announcement before reaching a decision.(On a personal note,I hope Masters gives us more time in the suits.I ordered a Jaked for Nats,but the second time I put it on it ripped and the replacement won't arrive in time.)

scyfreestyler
August 5th, 2009, 01:00 PM
FINA may make an exempation for master swimmers. They may allow masters to wear bodysuits because of some of the previous issues people have talked about in regards to older swimmers bodies.

If FINA exempts masters from the new rulings, then usms and other masters groups aren't ignoring FINA's rules.

Sure, but why bother changing rules at all if we are not going to strictly comply with FINA's suit rules? Just to say that we made an attempt at complying while still taking into consideration the appearance of some of our older swimmers in "old school" swim suits? As amusing as Mr. Thornton's blog was, this is really a laughable reason to steer clear of a bodysuit ban, IMHO.

thewookiee
August 5th, 2009, 01:14 PM
Sure, but why bother changing rules at all if we are not going to strictly comply with FINA's suit rules? Just to say that we made an attempt at complying while still taking into consideration the appearance of some of our older swimmers in "old school" swim suits? As amusing as Mr. Thornton's blog was, this is really a laughable reason to steer clear of a bodysuit ban, IMHO.

It maybe laughable to you but there are people out there that are very self aware of their bodies. Being able to wear suits that cover the upper body is much of a mental ease, comfort thing over it being a speed issue for many people.

knelson
August 5th, 2009, 01:26 PM
It maybe laughable to you but there are people out there that are very self aware of their bodies.

These people should probably look for a different sport or buck up.

Allen Stark
August 5th, 2009, 01:40 PM
NCAA allows string ties for jammers and briefs.FINA says no fastening system.A string tie is clearly a fastening system.No string ties should make meets very interesting,especially backstroke.

thewookiee
August 5th, 2009, 02:27 PM
These people should probably look for a different sport or buck up.

Easy thing for a person to say if you have never been down that road.

Muppet
August 5th, 2009, 02:41 PM
These people should probably look for a different sport or buck up.

hehe, good point, but a lot easier to say by someone who was chiseled by Michaelangelo out of Italian marble :bow: :bliss:

knelson
August 5th, 2009, 02:51 PM
I do see your point, though, wookiee. Suits covering the chest for men have only been popular for the last decade or so, but there was never a rule before specifically preventing men from covering their chests. I still think it's OK for FINA to impose coverage restrictions on suits, but realize some people won't be happy about it.

swimshark
August 5th, 2009, 03:06 PM
Darn. My $12.00 bargain TYR Aquapel just became illegal.

Same here. Darn!

Midas
August 5th, 2009, 03:12 PM
I would like Masters Swimming to be taken seriously, and I think having a significantly different rule from FINA and USA-S (accepting that their rules might themselves be a little different) would hurt Masters in the "legitimacy" argument.

Rich Abrahams
August 5th, 2009, 04:22 PM
It maybe laughable to you but there are people out there that are very self aware of their bodies. Being able to wear suits that cover the upper body is much of a mental ease, comfort thing over it being a speed issue for many people.

You have a valid point. At the same time isn't it possible that the wide-spread use of these high tech suits inhibits other masters swimmers from competing? They may feel, for whatever reason, that the tech suit is not for them and that they are at a disadvantage without one. I personally know of two people who feel this way.

BTW, I personally love to compete in the tech suits but I'm in favor of masters following FINA. I will suffer for my sport and endure the dreaded shaving down.

Rich

meldyck
August 5th, 2009, 04:33 PM
If you are not going to comply specifically with FINA's rule, why bother in the first place?

We do NOT strictly comply with all FINA or USAS swimming rules. There is no firm, consistent moral ground for criticising USMS for not following one rule if that same criticism is not applied uniformly to all the differences. The differences have been enumerated in several different threads on this Forum. We pick the ones we want to diverge on and do it in USMS. This is not a perfectly purist organization in that sense.

Those who want to have the purity of USAS can join USAS.

scyfreestyler
August 5th, 2009, 04:46 PM
We do NOT strictly comply with all FINA or USAS swimming rules. There is no firm, consistent moral ground for criticising USMS for not following one rule if that same criticism is not applied uniformly to all the differences. The differences have been enumerated in several different threads on this Forum. We pick the ones we want to diverge on and do it in USMS. This is not a perfectly purist organization in that sense.

Those who want to have the purity of USAS can join USAS.


You're referring to things such as in water starts, butterfrog, and lack of drug testing?

Anyhow, I'm speaking only of the swimsuit rules.

Deano
August 5th, 2009, 04:51 PM
Lets just hope that whichever way USMS decides to go (And of course we wish suits to stay, permeable or non permeable, we can handle both) All i ask is that those with the power of vote take into account the stakeholders of this sport and community.

To date i have seen two statements, one from ASCA and one from FINA, and neither have shown any understanding or empathy for the position they wish to put their loyal Swimmers, Swim dealers and Swim companies in.

If there is to be change then everyone will have to handle it, but if that change is done in haste and does not allow for the natural retail and product supply chain cycle to run it's course then you will have many stakeholders of the sport losing millions of $'s.

Parents have bought suits, masters have bought suits, dealers have bought stock and manufacturers have products on the water and on order. Does a date of January 1st allow for this? Absolutely not, does this allow for all concerned to "Take the medicine in a non too painful way" no it does not, and any institution expecting this date or earlier to not harm the hands that feed them is widely off mark.

Swim dealers support local and national events, Brands support local, national and individuals as well as governing bodies, so why oh why would the powers of FINA and others wish to bite the hands that feeds them and then rub salt in to the wound by accelerating what would have been a semi-realistic phase out period from April to January?

When the power tool industry was asked to change it's batteries to be more environmentally friendly they did, but they asked for and were granted a several year window to do this, and knowing what lay ahead i do believe they actually reached a saturation with new sources of battery power ahead of time.

We can all handle change, it's just the manner and consideration with which it is done.

Sorry guys, harping on here, but i thank you for the freedom to be able to speak here.

Deano

(That was the week that was)

meldyck
August 5th, 2009, 04:56 PM
You're referring to things such as in water starts, butterfrog, and lack of drug testing?

Anyhow, I'm speaking only of the swimsuit rules.

Those are exactly the kinds of things I'm referring to as well as not allowing 18-year-old master's swimmers, not having only meters courses, not having consistent age determinations and not allowing counter boards in the water.

I knew you were speaking only of the swimsuit rule but, in my mind, why is that such a big deal, that will so cheapen USMS' credibility, when we don't follow the other international rules? Is it a matter of degree? Will the average person on the street even be able to recognize the degree of differences, or only that there are already differences and that the suit issue would simply be another one?

I'm not trying to single you out in this opinion, but your post had a nice one-sentence bite that I could respond to. I'm thinking that many posters on the Forums are taking this one issue and saying it will ruin master's swimming when, in fact, there are many differences between USMS and FINA and between USMS and USAS. Indeed, there should be differences - we are separate organizations.

Anyhow, if I can borrow some of John Smith's feelings I would say that no one in the world gives a damn about those of us who compete in master's swimming. So why should it bother me if we differ with FINA in 5 rules or 10? If any of us were any good, then we would be competing in USAS and on the international stage.

Long live Dara Torres!

thewookiee
August 5th, 2009, 05:02 PM
You have a valid point. At the same time isn't it possible that the wide-spread use of these high tech suits inhibits other masters swimmers from competing? They may feel, for whatever reason, that the tech suit is not for them and that they are at a disadvantage without one. I personally know of two people who feel this way.

BTW, I personally love to compete in the tech suits but I'm in favor of masters following FINA. I will suffer for my sport and endure the dreaded shaving down.

Rich

Rich, you as well have a valid point. Personally, if they want to rid the sport of non-permeable suits of the polyuerthane(sp?) brand, no arguement from me. Yes, I have one and have swam in it. Wasn't that crazy about it either.

Those are the bodysuits that have really driven the prices up, to make it more difficult for people to purchase one or justify purchasing one.

I do believe the companies can make a permeable, affordable suit if they choose too.

If USMS does decide to follow FINA's ruling on suits, while I won't be thrilled having to swim in jammers, I will do so because I want to compete.

But I do understand your point of view on the suits as well. Thanks for understanding.

rtodd
August 5th, 2009, 05:33 PM
To me, forcing masters swimmers to swim in briefs is good encouragement to get in shape. Natural body shaping should be a part of swimming and encouraged for a healthy lifestyle.

Doesn't this make sense?

quicksilver
August 5th, 2009, 05:51 PM
That does make sense. The real benefit for some is that the suits carved away unwanted pounds not necessarily time.



That said I've never once seen any masters swimmer catch any grief for wearing a Speedo. with the exception of the infamous Speedo man.

Midas
August 5th, 2009, 06:16 PM
Anyhow, if I can borrow some of John Smith's feelings I would say that no one in the world gives a damn about those of us who compete in master's swimming. So why should it bother me if we differ with FINA in 5 rules or 10? If any of us were any good, then we would be competing in USAS and on the international stage.




Pardon me, but I very much give a damn about masters swimming. Most of the instances cited in which USMS rules differ from other governing bodies do not make USMS swimmers faster and appear to me to be an accommodation primarily to older swimmers. The suits just make people go faster. That is a very significant difference.

By the way, I think I'm plenty "good" even though I can't compete in USAS or the international stage. I do very well with a real life and limited training time, legitimately competing against similarly situated people. USMS is not "beer league softball". I find it to be pretty serious competition.

Midas
August 5th, 2009, 06:20 PM
It maybe laughable to you but there are people out there that are very self aware of their bodies. Being able to wear suits that cover the upper body is much of a mental ease, comfort thing over it being a speed issue for many people.

Do these people wear their full body suits to all practices too? Maybe they wear tee-shirts or surfing shirts? This must be a very small group of people indeed. Not sure they should be driving the decision (or even really factoring into it in any significant way)...

oldmanmiler
August 5th, 2009, 06:38 PM
I DON'T want to see old people in Speedo's!
I DON'T want to see me in a Speedo!
Speedo's should be banned! (at least for Master's)

rtodd
August 5th, 2009, 06:40 PM
USMS is not "beer league softball".

Having done that too, I totally agree. USMS is big time serious compared to other "Geezer Jock" sports. Having watched the SC Nationals on flowswimming, most all of those swimmers in all the age groups are big time studs. I've been training 2-3K yds a day, 5-6 days a week, for four years and can't get into the same zip code as these swimmers. What senior league in any other sport even compares?

USMS should emulate USA swimming, because for many, they can cross over. At the very least, the elite's should be making the USMS decision. It's the respectful thing to do.

Midas
August 5th, 2009, 07:00 PM
I DON'T want to see old people in Speedo's!
I DON'T want to see me in a Speedo!
Speedo's should be banned! (at least for Master's)

Wear a jammer and you'll be fine.

Allen Stark
August 5th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Those are exactly the kinds of things I'm referring to as well as not allowing 18-year-old master's swimmers, not having only meters courses, not having consistent age determinations and not allowing counter boards in the water.

I knew you were speaking only of the swimsuit rule but, in my mind, why is that such a big deal, that will so cheapen USMS' credibility, when we don't follow the other international rules? Is it a matter of degree? Will the average person on the street even be able to recognize the degree of differences, or only that there are already differences and that the suit issue would simply be another one?

I'm not trying to single you out in this opinion, but your post had a nice one-sentence bite that I could respond to. I'm thinking that many posters on the Forums are taking this one issue and saying it will ruin master's swimming when, in fact, there are many differences between USMS and FINA and between USMS and USAS. Indeed, there should be differences - we are separate organizations.

Anyhow, if I can borrow some of John Smith's feelings I would say that no one in the world gives a damn about those of us who compete in master's swimming. So why should it bother me if we differ with FINA in 5 rules or 10? If any of us were any good, then we would be competing in USAS and on the international stage.

Long live Dara Torres!

Pardon me,but Dave Radcliff is a hell of a good swimmer,but at 75 he is not competitive in USAS.I consider myself pretty good and very serious,but at 60 I would also not be competitive.(I have seen some 80+ swimmers who look just fine in a Speedo,that is one of the great things about Masters Swimming.)

quicksilver
August 5th, 2009, 07:50 PM
I DON'T want to see old people in Speedo's!
I DON'T want to see me in a Speedo!
Speedo's should be banned! (at least for Master's)

Then you should enjoy reading this.


http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?bt=16762

thewookiee
August 5th, 2009, 07:57 PM
To me, forcing masters swimmers to swim in briefs is good encouragement to get in shape. Natural body shaping should be a part of swimming and encouraged for a healthy lifestyle.

Doesn't this make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense. Why should someone be forced to wear a brief. People are NOT forced to wear tech suits, so why should be ok the other way.

People should be allowed to wear the suits they are most comfortable in, provided they aren't actual wetsuits but suits that have been at least approved in 2009 and before.

thewookiee
August 5th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Do these people wear their full body suits to all practices too? Maybe they wear tee-shirts or surfing shirts? This must be a very small group of people indeed. Not sure they should be driving the decision (or even really factoring into it in any significant way)...

Again, it maybe laughable to you but not to people that have been down this path . No one group should be the deciding factor but every group should definitly have input in the decision.

Midas
August 5th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Again, it maybe laughable to you but not to people that have been down this path . No one group should be the deciding factor but every group should definitly have input in the decision.

I agree with you but am just saying that this group should not have an equal voice with other constituencies. I do not think it laughable despite the tone of my earlier post. I just think it is a very small group and not one that should be a major focus. The fact that full body suits are a boon to such people was not the key factor in their introduction and should not be a key factor in determining whether to ban them. What they do to people's speed is the key factor, and whether we think that Masters should allow suits that FINA/USA-S think give people an artificial advantage. I say we should ban them too.

quicksilver
August 5th, 2009, 08:27 PM
People are forced to wear tech suits,Not really. Maybe to be competitive, people feel more pressure into buying one?

There are plenty of masters swimmers who refuse to plunk down several hundred dollars on a suit that lasts maybe one season.
No one is forced into needless spending.

I think what he's saying is that it's good motivation for an adult athlete to start looking a bit more fit instead of relying on the suit as a cover up rather than a time saver.

At the end of the day if someone is more inclined to swim and compete because they have a full suit for modesty reasons, that's great.

meldyck
August 5th, 2009, 08:39 PM
Pardon me, but I very much give a damn about masters swimming. Most of the instances cited in which USMS rules differ from other governing bodies do not make USMS swimmers faster and appear to me to be an accommodation primarily to older swimmers. The suits just make people go faster. That is a very significant difference.

By the way, I think I'm plenty "good" even though I can't compete in USAS or the international stage. I do very well with a real life and limited training time, legitimately competing against similarly situated people. USMS is not "beer league softball". I find it to be pretty serious competition.

Yes, so do I. I care about master's swimming and I don't really believe that USMS is a 'beer league.' However, my point is that even my mother when she was still alive didn't give a damn about my swimming and didn't know anything about it. My youngest son is a lifelong athlete and doesn't know a thing or care a thing about master's swimming. It's those kinds of folks I was referring to when I said that no one cares about what we do or how we do it. That's most of the world.

meldyck
August 5th, 2009, 08:48 PM
Pardon me,but Dave Radcliff is a hell of a good swimmer,but at 75 he is not competitive in USAS.I consider myself pretty good and very serious,but at 60 I would also not be competitive.(I have seen some 80+ swimmers who look just fine in a Speedo,that is one of the great things about Masters Swimming.)

Allen, I can't argue with anything you say. I consider myself to be a VERY serious swimmer as well and reasonably competitive in USMS. I am not competitive in USAS. I have also seen older swimmers who look very buff. Dave Radcliff is one good example. However, I have seen EXTREMELY FIT AND FAST older swimmers who do not look particularly good with flesh hanging out. I can PM you with a list of very fast (National and World champions, Olympians and record holders) master's swimmers who don't LOOK fit via the magazine model norms. Just because the flesh hangs out does not mean that they are not fit. These people do not need to get in shape, as one poster recently opined. But, if they feel more comfortable swimming in a suit that covers that flesh why not have the chance? If they want it to hang out, that should be an option as well.

Ripple
August 5th, 2009, 09:05 PM
...People should be allowed to wear the suits they are most comfortable in, provided they aren't actual wetsuits but suits that have been at least approved in 2009 and before.
If Fina isn't going to allow zippers, that's going back about 1989 and earlier. Didn't Speedo have a womens racing suit with a high neck and zipper back in the early 90s?
A woman could theoretically be disqualified for wearing a fashion suit with a plastic snap closer at the back.

thewookiee
August 5th, 2009, 09:13 PM
If Fina isn't going to allow zippers, that's going back about 1989 and earlier. Didn't Speedo have a womens racing suit with a high neck and zipper back in the early 90s?
A woman could theoretically be disqualified for wearing a fashion suit with a plastic snap closer at the back.

The S-2000. Came out in 1992 for both men and women. A few men tried it but it didn't catch on then. The aquablades started catching on with men around 1996.

thewookiee
August 5th, 2009, 09:19 PM
Not really. Maybe to be competitive, people feel more pressure into buying one?

There are plenty of masters swimmers who refuse to plunk down several hundred dollars on a suit that lasts maybe one season.
No one is forced into needless spending.

I think what he's saying is that it's good motivation for an adult athlete to start looking a bit more fit instead of relying on the suit as a cover up rather than a time saver.

At the end of the day if someone is more inclined to swim and compete because they have a full suit for modesty reasons, that's great.

Meant to say "NOT forced to wear a tech suit" but got too typing too quickly.

I would agree that if someone is using a bodysuit to cover-up because they don't want to take the time to get fit, then that isn't a good reason to wear one.

But those people aren't the ones I am talking about anyway. While I understand Midas's point about them not being a major voice, I do believe everyone's point/voice should be heard and considered for USMS and it's members overall best interest.

Allen Stark
August 5th, 2009, 10:00 PM
It seems to me that if FINA says the suit rules don't apply to Masters then USMS should follow that,otherwise we are at a competitive disadvantage to the rest of the world. If FINA says they do,then any of us interested in FINA TT or WRs had better hope that USMS follows suit for LCM and SCM.It is in SCY(which is the most important venue for most USMS swimmers) where there is some flexibility.I think that in the interest of fairness USMS should not implement the rules for SCY before 5/31/10 as there will be SCY meets this fall which will count in the 09/10 SCY season.

quicksilver
August 6th, 2009, 07:19 AM
Meant to say "NOT forced to wear a tech suit" but got too typing too quickly.



Understood. It's a hot topic coming from both sides of the fence. Not having worn one (a tech suit) and with no immediate chances of making a world ranking, my opinion is neither here nor there. If someone bumps me off the top ten list by a few 1/100ths because they had a speed suit, I'll just work harder for next the season.

Allen's idea is very good. Since FINA tabulations only matter in short course and long course meters....masters swimmers should be allowed to keep the suits for yards swimming only. We are in fact the only country who recognizes this unit of measurement. And that said, why not make an exception to the suit rule (for yards meets).

KEWebb18
August 6th, 2009, 08:11 AM
Maybe the suit makers should be allowed to make men's knee-length body suits out of their "textiles" that would allow for more modesty. To me, that would be a fair compromise.
I can't complain about the ruling though, as I am a female. I am still going to wear whatever suit I want until USMS tells me otherwise.

DPC
August 6th, 2009, 12:49 PM
Does anyone have any real data on how much faster tech suits are over the standard "good old racing suits" - similar to the time conversion of SCY times to SCM to LCM times. Maybe there is a way to "discount" or place someone's time in a tech suit to a non-tech suit time - and use that as a benchmark for qualifying for FINA sponsored events & lists, etc.

Also, why not allow, all "textile" legskins and body suits as well as jammers and briefs. The time difference can't be that much. Maybe a compromise - and it get the rocket scientists some work.

orca1946
August 6th, 2009, 03:41 PM
Hey Kirk, lighten up or find another forum !

knelson
August 6th, 2009, 06:42 PM
Hey Kirk, lighten up or find another forum !

What did I say? :confused: