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pwolf66
August 22nd, 2009, 09:09 PM
Would your program perform this set?

http://tinyurl.com/lqqu75


I would love to give this one a shot but I voted 'very unlikely'

slknight
August 22nd, 2009, 09:31 PM
Yes, definitely. In fact, we have done the reverse of that set several times, where you start at 2:00 and drop the interval 5 seconds. You try to hold on to swimming a certain distance for as long as you can before you have to drop down to a lower distance. :applaud:

Chris Stevenson
August 22nd, 2009, 10:40 PM
Can you describe the set? The link doesn't work for me.

Jazz Hands
August 22nd, 2009, 10:45 PM
The link is broken? http://www.floswimming.org/videos/play/74330-the-nitro-whistle-set

I got really excited when I first heard this set, because I thought it was going to be 25s straight through. Increasing intervals is actually a great workout design that I never see coaches use. It helps keep the fatigue away and the intensity high. I think coaches want to seem tough, so they cut down intervals instead. That makes no sense to me. You're getting more tired, you need more rest for the same intensity. But swimmers too often care about feeling tired instead of actually becoming faster. Lame.

That was really an unrelated rant, because this set is fairly conventional in its set-up, it just looks weird from the outside. The swimmers will basically hold a slow aerobic pace close to their top effort over whatever the total time of the set is. It's just like a 10x100 on the 1:05 or whatever with extra hand-waving.

That Guy
August 22nd, 2009, 11:45 PM
A Top Scientist should be able to figure out that for a freestyler, this set is equivalent to 21x100 on 1:10. Props to the guy who went 2200 - he really attacked it. I didn't see any breaststrokers :dunno:

isobel
August 23rd, 2009, 12:38 AM
This is the kind of set that looks fun at 12:37 a.m., but tomorrow, when I'm at the pool, I may have second thoughts about.

Looks challenging. I want to try it. I think there would be a lot of 100s in my version.

Chris Stevenson
August 23rd, 2009, 08:05 AM
Our group would do this set, though maybe we would have to start at 0:25 b/c some of the slowest people might not be able to do the first 25 on 0:20 (but it is only one, so maybe that's not such a big deal).

We do descending interval/changing distance sets every so often and I don't think this set is very different. The whistle just helps one remember the interval...our coach just programs the digital clock and calls out the interval (and encouragement) as we progress.

I am sure he would have no problem adopting this set, but I would guess our coach would probably prefer the descending interval set b/c, as the distance decreases, he would expect our speed to increase. The swimming intensity would build, just like he would want us to race on longer distances (this is a distance set, as Jazz noted).

quicksilver
August 23rd, 2009, 09:33 AM
The swimmers will basically hold a slow aerobic pace close to their top effort over whatever the total time of the set is. It's just like a 10x100 on the 1:05 or whatever with extra hand-waving. Agreed. It looks more like an aerobic threshold set rather than a sprinters workout.
After number 3 or 4, it'd be a straight pace swim for most people.

Like a T-30 with lots of whistles in between.

The Fortress
August 23rd, 2009, 10:31 AM
Would your program perform this set?

http://tinyurl.com/lqqu75


I would love to give this one a shot



I guess you're still planning on the 200 breast and 500 free for the short course season then?

Looks dreadful to me.

swimmj
August 23rd, 2009, 10:38 AM
We would likely have part of the pool start at a higher interval and not do quite so many repeats, for the folks who cannot swim 25 meters in less than :20. One could choose to swim less and rest more - to make it more sprinty. Otherwise, it's a middle distance swimmers exercise.

Chris Stevenson
August 23rd, 2009, 12:11 PM
Looks dreadful to me.

All in your perspective I guess...Jazz got all excited about doing these as 25s with a ton of rest, which would bore me to pieces. I like to feel like I'm getting a workout, at least... :D

qbrain
August 23rd, 2009, 05:12 PM
If I was in an ornery mood, I would totally do this set Jazz style, aka 24x25 AFAP on an increasing interval. Maybe at the 1:00+ I would do an ez 25 to help flush some of the lactic acid.

And when the coach asks why I can swim a 25 on 20 but not a 50 on 2:00? That second 25 really kills me :)

Of course, I think I can do 24x25s on a 1:00 solo... kinda a waste of team workout time unless I can get some fool to race me.

That Guy
August 23rd, 2009, 05:39 PM
I'd swim the set full-butterfly, so I'm not sure how it would play out distance-wise. Given how much rest I'd need, I can see *maybe* shooting for 150 yards on the last swim. And keep the defibrillator handy!

A fun variant would be to swim this set medley, without telling anyone beforehand. Start off with 25 flys, and then it just gets weirder as you add distance. Ah, I miss messing with coaches and lanemates by doing stuff like that...

rtodd
August 23rd, 2009, 07:16 PM
We tried it. It was fun. One time I did jump too early and it really hurt to hang on until it got easier.

It is a tough set without a coach to blow the whistle. Luckily one of the guys was real sharp with the pace clock.

orca1946
August 23rd, 2009, 07:51 PM
At the end of the season.

isobel
August 23rd, 2009, 09:50 PM
I tried it on my own, writing out when to leave and posting that on both sides of the pool.

However, not enough time to read and swim and thus I screwed it up. It would be fun with my team, I think, a challenge to keep a good pace, with a few easy swims now and then.

But I would need our coach to be blowing the whistle so that I wouldn't have to think about when to go.

It's a sneaky set because you know you are getting more time and I wondered how much and when I could do more. Psychologically, for me getting more time to do more is easier (in theory) than getting less time to do the same, or dropping distance as you have less time.

Not a sprint set, but a pacing set. I liked it, but want to do it again with my team, without their knowing it was my idea. But not tomorrow...

kristilynn
August 23rd, 2009, 11:20 PM
I've never tried this set going up (from shorter to longer interval). I'm totally stoked to try it now. Since I'm essentially my swim program, I voted "Heck yeah!" I might make my high school kids do it too, but we'd start at :30.

Muppet
August 24th, 2009, 12:25 AM
i'd be very interested in doing this. but not now ;-) maybe in a few months when i am motivated again.

as for getting the rest of the team - i would bet that we could get most if not all to do it; though starting interval and/or fin approval adjustments may be needed.

i sent the link out to our coaches in an unconspicuous manner - perhaps they will get the hint and one day when we're being particularly obnoxious, we'll get slammed.

ehoch
August 24th, 2009, 02:47 PM
Gonna make a run at this --- not sure what the "rules" were for the kids, but I think you should not be able to make up to the interval if you miss.

So if I miss, I have to wait a 50 to jump back in + making it means 1 second better on the clock ( 74 is making it .. 75 is a miss).

Not sure what a good goal would be -- 2200 sounds like a round number

aquageek
August 24th, 2009, 03:27 PM
You're getting more tired, you need more rest for the same intensity. But swimmers too often care about feeling tired instead of actually becoming faster. Lame.

Decreasing intervals and increasing the speed at the same time is a rock solid workout. Anyone can increase speed and increase the interval, that's about as challenging as getting wet in the shower.

This is my kind of set, can't wait to give it a shot. Fort will join me.

Jazz Hands
August 24th, 2009, 09:09 PM
Decreasing intervals and increasing the speed at the same time is a rock solid workout. Anyone can increase speed and increase the interval, that's about as challenging as getting wet in the shower.

Your attitude is the point. "Challenging" as in you can't finish the set? Great. When you chop down the interval, you are accelerating the rate of fatigue. The set has to be shorter. A yardage queen like yourself should know the downside.

There are other ways to challenge yourself. Like, say, swimming fast. Try that one sometime.

aquageek
August 25th, 2009, 09:59 AM
Your attitude is the point. "Challenging" as in you can't finish the set? Great. When you chop down the interval, you are accelerating the rate of fatigue. The set has to be shorter. A yardage queen like yourself should know the downside.

There are other ways to challenge yourself. Like, say, swimming fast. Try that one sometime.

Since when do descending interval sets have to be short? That kind of defeats the whole purpose. I think the value of descending interval sets is making them quite long so that you increase your speed incrementally, develop some pacing at each speed interval. Added bonus is great endurance.

I know what you are saying about speed work, we do that as well. Can't always do the same thing over and over, unless you are John Smith.

When you coming to Charlotte for a visit now that you are an east coaster?

Thrashing Slug
August 25th, 2009, 06:40 PM
I swam a variant of this yesterday, although it sucked because the pool was packed and I had to share a wall lane with a changing lineup of 3 different eh... very casual swimmer types... you know what I mean. Not quite floaters, but definitely not conducive to fast swimming.

I didn't remember all the rules about how high the interval was supposed to go so I just did from :20 up to whenever. Originally I intended to swim it all IM, going free-fly-breast-back in each distance, but I quickly gave up on that when I saw how crowded it was. (need to get my ass out of bed early!) I ended up swimming 25s AFAP until :45, then 50s AFAP until 1:40, followed by 1 100 AFAP which was definitely NOT anywhere near my best 100 time. In fact it was so far from said time that it demotivated me and I quit the set after 2 or 3 more 100s. I think I stopped at 2:05 or 2:10. How high was the interval supposed to go?

The rest of my workout was almost all Fly, which I've been working on a lot lately. I don't know if that affected my performance or not. All I know is that I enjoyed swimming the fly and hated the increasing intervals set. I think I would have liked the "whistle" set better if it were done with a group.